Things I Hate About Third Year

[dally1025]

I don't know if you think they're going to pass you a scalpel, but surgery sucked ass.

The attending handed me the scalpel on the 1st surgery I ever scrubbed into and said "cut." I suppose it's school and attending dependent but I've been treated like an intern on a few rotations and it made all the difference. Rotations spent shadowing are a waste...

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[officedepot]

I don't know if you think they're going to pass you a scalpel, but surgery sucked ass. Especially OBGYN surgery. Yeah I want to sit there for 4 hours in the back of the room scrubbed in holding my hands above my waist while not touching a god damn thing while you deliver a uterus out of some lady's vagina. Yeah I can totally see what you're doing and not just the back of your head. Remind me why you made me scrub in again? Because my back hurts and I hate all of you bitches. But I doubt you'll be bitter. God just thinking back on that crap makes me so angry...

Edit: Lol, I wrote this before I read your other post about how you enjoyed OBGYN surgery so much. I promise I just hated it, not a personal attack.

dude that sucks. my obgyn surg was easy because I was at a private hospital, had really easy hours compared to my peers, and didn't even have to scrub on 3/4 of the cases (I do not want to go into surgery so that was awesome!). I was pretty much ignored by attendings when I didn't express interest in anything they were doing lol. probably looked bad but whatever.

 

[VenusinFurs]

The attending handed me the scalpel on the 1st surgery I ever scrubbed into and said "cut." I suppose it's school and attending dependent but I've been treated like an intern on a few rotations and it made all the difference. Rotations spent shadowing are a waste...

What a sweetie

 

[swedishfish]

im on surgery and i feel miserable. i wake up at 4 am everyday (or earlier), get yelled at by everyone and their mother, break sterile fields and get yelled at by scrub nurses, and i'm the retractor biotch. also i can never answer any pimp questions right. sigh.

 

[eli20]

You people are depressing me. As a MS1 all I can think about is how much better the clinical years will be...

+1 This thread is ruining my coping mechanism lol

 

[2012mdc]

+1 This thread is ruining my coping mechanism lol

Your coping mechanism should be having fun outside of school. Only way I stayed sane at any point in med school

 

[eli20]

Your coping mechanism should be having fun outside of school. Only way I stayed sane at any point in med school

Haha, well it generally is, but as block week approaches, thinking of 3rd year as magical subs in for lack of personal time to do fun things.

 

[JackShephard MD]

Let me relieve the stress of wondering for you: it is.

lol

 

[2012mdc]

Haha, well it generally is, but as block week approaches, thinking of 3rd year as magical subs in for lack of personal time to do fun things.

Lol 3rd year may be considered better by some but it certaintly isn't magical. Instead of thinking about more work when you are working hard why don't you think about how much fun/sleep you will have after block week.

 

[PistolPete]

I describe 3rd year like this: "The highs are higher, and the lows are lower. Much lower." So basically I'd say 3rd year is marginally better than 2nd or 1st year, but not by much. Other people's experiences may differ but that is my opinion.

 

[drfamilymed]

 

[drizzt3117]

I describe 3rd year like this: "The highs are higher, and the lows are lower. Much lower." So basically I'd say 3rd year is marginally better than 2nd or 1st year, but not by much. Other people's experiences may differ but that is my opinion.

What highs? Your resident saying you weren't totally inadequate at history taking? lol

M4 > M1 > M2 > M3, IMO. At least as a first year med school is fun for the first few months when it's new and exciting... 4th year is pretty awesome though, except interview scheduling is a s*show.

 

[MilkmanAl]

interview scheduling is a s*show

1. Apply to 66 programs
2. Get and schedule interviews
3. Get and schedule more interviews
4. Get interviews from places you want to attend with dates limited to those you've already scheduled other interviews on
5. Juggle already slammed schedule
6. Interview
7. Piss off people you're rotating with.
8...
9. Don't profit.

 

[drizzt3117]

1. Apply to 66 programs
2. Get and schedule interviews
3. Get and schedule more interviews
4. Get interviews from places you want to attend with dates limited to those you've already scheduled other interviews on
5. Juggle already slammed schedule
6. Interview
7. Piss off people you're rotating with.
8...
9. Don't profit.

That and making all those fn dinners...

I got super lucky and have EM followed by nothing for the rest of the calendar year, but I have a surgical preceptorship in January... Hopefully I won't get crushed for taking time off.

 

[drizzt3117]

That being said, the worst thing about m4 is step 2 cs...

"I'm SO SORRY you're having abdominal pain, is there anything I can do to help? I see you're coughing, can I get you some water?"

"So to summarize, you've had chest pain for the last two hours and it started when you smoked crack... Is there anything else you'd like to discuss?"

Can't believe I paid 2k for that...

 

[Depakote]

"So to summarize, you've had chest pain for the last two hours and it started when you smoked crack... Is there anything else you'd like to discuss?"

Can't believe I paid 2k for that...

Sir, I'm concerned about your crack use. Have you considered quitting? I'd be happy to set you up with an appointment for drug counseling.

 

[2012mdc]

1. Apply to 66 programs
2. Get and schedule interviews
3. Get and schedule more interviews
4. Get interviews from places you want to attend with dates limited to those you've already scheduled other interviews on
5. Juggle already slammed schedule
6. Interview
7. Piss off people you're rotating with.
8...
9. Don't profit.

Almost all of my top choices and about 2/3 of all the programs I applied to don't send out invites until post dean's letter. That first week is going to be nuts especially with the programs that only offer 2 or 3 dates. I've been able to keep January completely clear to this point so I hope I can make it work

 

[2012mdc]

What highs? Your resident saying you weren't totally inadequate at history taking? lol

M4 > M1 > M2 > M3, IMO. At least as a first year med school is fun for the first few months when it's new and exciting... 4th year is pretty awesome though, except interview scheduling is a s*show.

The rare time when your H&P actually affects management.

Or doing really well and getting great feedback from an attending.

 

[username456789]

Almost all of my top choices and about 2/3 of all the programs I applied to don't send out invites until post dean's letter. That first week is going to be nuts especially with the programs that only offer 2 or 3 dates. I've been able to keep January completely clear to this point so I hope I can make it work

The bold describes essentially all 100+ derm programs to which I applied.

 

[drizzt3117]

The rare time when your H&P actually affects management.

Or doing really well and getting great feedback from an attending.

The thing is, you have more autonomy in the first 5 minutes of a M4 rotation than all of third year. What changed? The two week break between m3/4? As a 4 I get to write orders, discharge patients, staff all my pts directly with an attending, and do a whole litany of procedures. I don't think that much has changed with my skillset.

 

[2012mdc]

The bold describes essentially all 100+ derm programs to which I applied.

Yeah I feel you man. Waiting sucks. I'm sitting on 4 invites while most rads applicants I know have 10+

 

[officedepot]

The thing is, you have more autonomy in the first 5 minutes of a M4 rotation than all of third year. What changed? The two week break between m3/4? As a 4 I get to write orders, discharge patients, staff all my pts directly with an attending, and do a whole litany of procedures. I don't think that much has changed with my skillset.

what's changed is the one year advantage you have over new M3s. You know the system, the process, how to work with residents, how to be fairly efficient with patients, what is important, etc. M3s know absolutely nothing about any of that. Thus it takes more than an hour with each patient initially.

Dude my first rotation with medicine took me a good hour with any new patient. Lots of time because I did the full physical they taught 1st and 2nd year (partly to practice as well) and tried to get the best history I could. And today I saw like 5 patients over a 3.5 hour period doing a full history and physical (didn't write the note but as I presented the resident wrote down exactly what I was saying for the most part). Given 3.5 hours even a few months ago would take me the entire time, history, physical, and note for one patient (sounds bad but I only had 2-3 total patients so I wasn't really trying to rush for the most part).

 

[drizzt3117]

I could do a H&P with full note in 30-45 minutes as a m3, depending how complicated the pts were. I was away from my institution and was on 4 months of rads, I'd hardly improved my clinical or administrative skills during this time.

what's changed is the one year advantage you have over new M3s. You know the system, the process, how to work with residents, how to be fairly efficient with patients, what is important, etc. M3s know absolutely nothing about any of that. Thus it takes more than an hour with each patient initially.

Dude my first rotation with medicine took me a good hour with any new patient. Lots of time because I did the full physical they taught 1st and 2nd year (partly to practice as well) and tried to get the best history I could. And today I saw like 5 patients over a 3.5 hour period doing a full history and physical (didn't write the note but as I presented the resident wrote down exactly what I was saying for the most part). Given 3.5 hours even a few months ago would take me the entire time, history, physical, and note for one patient (sounds bad but I only had 2-3 total patients so I wasn't really trying to rush for the most part).

 

[2012mdc]

I could do a H&P with full note in 30-45 minutes as a m3, depending how complicated the pts were. I was away from my institution and was on 4 months of rads, I'd hardly improved my clinical or administrative skills during this time.

After 3 straight months of DR and IR I'm pretty sure my H&P skills/presenting are slightly worse than where they were during M3 if anything.

I definitely got better at procedural stuff.

I agree that there is no significant difference between a 3rd year who has some experience and a newly minted 4th year.

 

[MilkmanAl]

After 3 straight months of DR and IR I'm pretty sure my H&P skills/presenting are slightly worse than where they were during M3 if anything.

Oh man, do I ever feel that pain. 3 months of anesthesia and one off for Step 2-->medicine sub-I. Dear God.

 

[drizzt3117]

Yeah, I jumped into heme sub-I then EM, pretty fun!

 

[Phyozo]

This thread is great haha.

People have said it before, but it's worth bringing up again...one of the most awful things about MS3 year is when you've got to re-evaluate a patient right after the intern/resident already have. Feels like wasted work. I also never liked the multiple rounding model in the AM (MS3, then intern, then resident, then whole group with attending)...is it REALLY necessary? No...we're just learning at the expense of patient care (seems like we do a LOT of things in medicine at the expense of patient care unfortunately).

MS4 definitely gets better. I think even the most brilliant MS3 gets treated way worse than the dumbest MS4 since rank is such an important thing on the wards. Plus I think as an MS4, you just don't care as much...you just do your job and get out as soon as possible and move on with your life...the attitude is a lot more like the residents (versus the crazy MS3 gung-ho mentality).

I also definitely second the person above who mentioned the importance of having your own plan as an MS3, even if it seems like you're just standing there absorbing someone else's plan, because especially when you do your Sub-I, there's going to be some crazy group of nurses paging you because a bunch of acute stuff just happened to your patient and the resident is nowhere in sight so you're first to respond....happened a ton to me haha

 

[2012mdc]

Oh man, do I ever feel that pain. 3 months of anesthesia and one off for Step 2-->medicine sub-I. Dear God.

I'm 3 months of rads followed by a month off for Step 2, a non-clinical rotation and another month off for interviewing and then med sub-I in Feb. Should be interesting lol

 

[DocYuki]

How true all of this is; the useless time spent after rounds, the long hours and early mornings on surgery, and the pompous ******* personalities. The few times that I decided I couldn't take unnecessary abuse and stood up for myself during 3rd year, it became a power struggle between MS3 and Resident. In that case, you know what inevitably happens; I ended up with residents bitching about me on my evaluations.

When these things came up on residency interviews, I was able to use them and turn them around into "learning stories" and I think they ended up giving my interviews a lot of character and made them interesting in a good way haha. When you have lemons...

 

[AggieSean]

Rounding

 

[VenusinFurs]

Oh man.

Surgery, surgery, surgery. Hate, hate, hate.

 

[da8s0859q]

oh man.

Surgery, surgery, surgery. Hate, hate, hate.

+1

 

[liberaldoc238]

biggest mistake I ever made was going to medical school. I literally loath the students I run into that get a hard on about some patient they saw with some stupid disease that I don't give a **** about. Seriously talk to me about the baseball game last night instead of this ****.

I hate it and want out.....I should have moved to colorado and worked at a bar when I had the chance........now im stuck with debt...**** my life

 

[liberaldoc238]

oh and forget about having weekends on rotations....that time is spent catching up on the bull**** assignments you have to complete for the rotation.

 

[Poiu86]

biggest mistake I ever made was going to medical school. I literally loath the students I run into that get a hard on about some patient they saw with some stupid disease that I don't give a **** about. Seriously talk to me about the baseball game last night instead of this ****.

I hate it and want out.....I should have moved to colorado and worked at a bar when I had the chance........now im stuck with debt...**** my life

People applying to medical school should be forced to read this. Honestly, if you get 3 years into school and find out that you hate it/did it for the wrong reason/etc, you are F*CKED. If you drop out you have a solid 100+g's of debt, presumably zero income, likely a degree from undergrad that is unmarketable (bio? zoology?), and your debt cannot be forgiven by bankruptcy. Uuuuuugggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Best of luck man, seriously.

 

[Siverhideo1985]

Running out of staples on the last stack of papers that needs stapling.

 

[Rollo]

biggest mistake I ever made was going to medical school. I literally loath the students I run into that get a hard on about some patient they saw with some stupid disease that I don't give a **** about. Seriously talk to me about the baseball game last night instead of this ****.

I hate it and want out.....I should have moved to colorado and worked at a bar when I had the chance........now im stuck with debt...**** my life

Sounds like either psychiatry or radiology is in your future.

 

[da8s0859q]

Running out of staples on the last stack of papers that needs stapling.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Sounds like either psychiatry or radiology is in your future.

Anesthesia, baby. Gotta love it!

 

[FSU2013]

Wow, reading this really makes me appreciate going to FSU......our attendings let us leave when the work is done, we're 1st assist on all surgeries, the only time we shadow is on psych, my SOAP notes get read then signed by attendings.......might not have any name recognition, but being 1 on 1 with attendings has its perks.

 

[VisionaryTics]

Wow, reading this really makes me appreciate going to FSU......our attendings let us leave when the work is done, we're 1st assist on all surgeries, the only time we shadow is on psych, my SOAP notes get read then signed by attendings.......might not have any name recognition, but being 1 on 1 with attendings has its perks.

How can you be first assist on all surgeries? Is there a residency program?

 

[officedepot]

biggest mistake I ever made was going to medical school. I literally loath the students I run into that get a hard on about some patient they saw with some stupid disease that I don't give a **** about. Seriously talk to me about the baseball game last night instead of this ****.

I hate it and want out.....I should have moved to colorado and worked at a bar when I had the chance........now im stuck with debt...**** my life

lol it's probably just the people you hang around. Most of the people I talk to, despite the field they are going into, do not talk about stuff they have seen (and if they do it bugs the crap out of me unless it is interesting).

you just need to find a field you care somewhat about. Or at least pick a field with predictable schedule and somewhat routine work.

To me it seems anesthesia may fit you well. Work is fairly routine. Mostly fixed schedules with shift work. Interact with lots of different types of people besides doctors. Don't have to deal with tons of different disease (yes you'll see a lot but the role of anesthesia is limited to a specific job). If you are in a long procedure you can basically sit and play on your phone or read a book if nothing's happening that needs your attention.

 

[FSU2013]

How can you be first assist on all surgeries? Is there a residency program?

We use "regional campuses" - our students go to one of six campuses around the state. We get paired up with an attending and follow their schedule for the week. There are a handful of residencies associated with the hospitals where we rotate, but we generally work independently from them. We do not get the same exposure to residencies or prototypical hierarchy, but we get a lot of autonomy and we are 100% with attendings. It's not particularly highly regarded, but we rock out on step 2 because of it (in spite of te fact that FSU historically takes lower mcat scores) and, like I said, I was first assist on every surgery that my attending performed on GS and I was first assist on every trauma call (we took q4 on surg). The only time I didn't scrub with my surgeon was Friday at 6PM post-call when we had our 1000th lap chole, lol.

 

[mtwop]

We use "regional campuses" - our students go to one of six campuses around the state. We get paired up with an attending and follow their schedule for the week. There are a handful of residencies associated with the hospitals where we rotate, but we generally work independently from them. We do not get the same exposure to residencies or prototypical hierarchy, but we get a lot of autonomy and we are 100% with attendings. It's not particularly highly regarded, but we rock out on step 2 because of it (in spite of te fact that FSU historically takes lower mcat scores) and, like I said, I was first assist on every surgery that my attending performed on GS and I was first assist on every trauma call (we took q4 on surg). The only time I didn't scrub with my surgeon was Friday at 6PM post-call when we had our 1000th lap chole, lol.

Haha no offense but I sure hope I don't come in as a trauma in Florida!!! Was this at a level I?

 

[FSU2013]

How can you be first assist on all surgeries? Is there a residency program?

Haha no offense but I sure hope I don't come in as a trauma in Florida!!! Was this at a level I?

Level II. We see a lot of trauma though. I'm in Daytona beach so we get plenty of motorcycle accidents and stab wounds. It's great experience, but we are never in over our head or without supervision - we have some great trauma attendings.

We would never put a learning experience above patient care. I know that you were just kidding (although I suppose you should hope you never need any trauma surgery), but we are never cavalier about surgery and understand the gravity of the situation.

 

[MossPoh]

How can you be first assist on all surgeries? Is there a residency program?

We have a preceptor/mentor type organization. There are a few residency programs at some of the campuses, but they are largely independent of our stuff. We may spend a weekend or something doing inpatient with them, but most of our time is one-on-one with our attending. My first rotation was surgery and on the very first day I found myself wrist deep in belly stapling colon, suctioning, etc. right after I got to start the IV and intubate. It was kind of overload at first, but when there aren't residents and the attending volunteers to teach rather than required to, one gets to do a lot of junk. I'd get pulled in to other random cases when a slow day or to do a central line as well.

 

[VenusinFurs]

I got something in the mid-80s on my general surgery evaluation. Thanks.

EDIT: At least I've learned my lesson now. Just be loud and obnoxious and act like I'm sure I'm right. Because as far as I can see, my only fault was being too soft-spoken and getting flustered with the one faculty member who apparently filled out my evaluation.

 

[Deferoxamine]

I am so happy that enough people here recognize just how badly almost all of medical school really sucks. I think the keyword for medical school is "died".

3rd-year was my rockstar year, but with that my social life effectively died. I even saw my best friends back home MUCH less than before. Performing well consistently when you're not a natural genius comes at a heavy price. It was certainly better than the first 2 years in the day-to-day mundane stuff, because I wasn't sitting at a stupid desk all day.

2nd-year was the reality check year, when I was much more in control than I was in MS1, but was faced with the idea that was never again going to get a "break". With the end of a tame summer between MS1 and MS2, I pretty much watched the sun set on my free time, and with that my youth died. It was time to start acting like a grown-up.

1st-year was the worst year of my life. I spent the entire year hating myself for choosing the medical profession and for choosing my medical school. It all seemed like a bad dream, like the stupidest choices I had ever made in my life. I seriously entertained quitting probably 50 to 100 times... in the first 4 months. My friends back home were very seriously worried for me. I resigned to quit med school for good one night when no one was home with me, sat on the phone with family for 3 hours and LITERALLY LAID DOWN ON THE LIVING ROOM FLOOR AND ALMOST F***IN DIED.

Outside of my immediate family, I think only 2 or 3 other people even know the half of what kind of total mindf%ck I went through during med school.

----------------
Say what you will... frankly, I don't care.

I'm proud to say I fought through the pain, thrived, and ultimately succeeded beyond my wildest expectations.

Why?
Because residency is amazing. I would argue that I often like it more than I ever liked much of 4th year, which seemed like such an enormous waste of time.

Hang tight, everyone. I can legit say that the best is out there waiting for you after all this standardized medical school mess is finished.

 

[Siverhideo1985]

I am so happy that enough people here recognize just how badly almost all of medical school really sucks. I think the keyword for medical school is "died".

3rd-year was my rockstar year, but with that my social life effectively died. I even saw my best friends back home MUCH less than before. Performing well consistently when you're not a natural genius comes at a heavy price. It was certainly better than the first 2 years in the day-to-day mundane stuff, because I wasn't sitting at a stupid desk all day.

2nd-year was the reality check year, when I was much more in control than I was in MS1, but was faced with the idea that was never again going to get a "break". With the end of a tame summer between MS1 and MS2, I pretty much watched the sun set on my free time, and with that my youth died. It was time to start acting like a grown-up.

1st-year was the worst year of my life. I spent the entire year hating myself for choosing the medical profession and for choosing my medical school. It all seemed like a bad dream, like the stupidest choices I had ever made in my life. I seriously entertained quitting probably 50 to 100 times... in the first 4 months. My friends back home were very seriously worried for me. I resigned to quit med school for good one night when no one was home with me, sat on the phone with family for 3 hours and LITERALLY LAID DOWN ON THE LIVING ROOM FLOOR AND ALMOST F***IN DIED.

Outside of my immediate family, I think only 2 or 3 other people even know the half of what kind of total mindf%ck I went through during med school.

----------------
Say what you will... frankly, I don't care.

I'm proud to say I fought through the pain, thrived, and ultimately succeeded beyond my wildest expectations.

Why?
Because residency is amazing. I would argue that I often like it more than I ever liked much of 4th year, which seemed like such an enormous waste of time.

Hang tight, everyone. I can legit say that the best is out there waiting for you after all this standardized medical school mess is finished.

What field did you go into?

 

[shenanigi]

im on surgery and i feel miserable. i wake up at 4 am everyday (or earlier), get yelled at by everyone and their mother, break sterile fields and get yelled at by scrub nurses, and i'm the retractor biotch. also i can never answer any pimp questions right. sigh.

I cant wait...