Things I Hate About Third Year

[Skinceutical]

I'm a bit lost as to why all the med students think that (a. it's terrible to be scrubbed into long cases (b. continue to scrub into cases rather than helping with floor work or seeing consults or going to surgery clinic or admitting patients from the ED or the many other things we do in surgery.

I'm not a med student anymore but:

A. This is kinda like a neurology resident asking "I don't understand why all the med students think that sitting around for 45 minutes discussing how to 'localize the lesion' rather than just finding it on the CT we already did is so painful."

If you like the field, then you're probably going to find it interesting and exciting (as you clearly do). However, if you've realized that you're not particularly interested in gen surg, standing in one place for several hours at a time, dressed in a hot, stuffy gown, with 12 different people continuously scrutinizing you to ensure that you don't move your hands the wrong way (God forbid your hands go above shoulder level for even a millisecond!!!) or touch the wrong things, all while your mercurial attending/chief randomly pimps you, can be less than pleasant.

B. When I was a med student on gen surg, the expectation was that a medical student would be scrubbed in on every single case that our service was doing each day. As much as some us would have preferred to go and see consults, or help the interns with floor work, it often wasn't an option when there were 3-4 cases running simultaneously, all of which had to be "staffed" by a med student (because our retraction skills were apparently just that vital to the case). I still remember us getting yelled at by the chief for a good 20 or 30 minutes because some trivial procedure (I think it might have been a Port-a-Cath placement or something along those lines) went unstaffed.

Wow...those were such miserable, painful days.

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[medigull]

Seems like you have some delusions as well. Community physicians do not take call every fourth night and they're not in the hospital and awake all night when they do.

You know what your right. Dr.s in groups with only three physicians take q3 call. 3 and 4 man groups are very common if not the norm. Also you are correct that its not in house which makes some difference but theres plenty of nights where it might as well be if you are in a specialty with acutely ill patients. Believe me I have seen it in my family and in previous work.There were times where I would show up to my job in the OR at 6 am and a local surgeon who had operated on a full case load the day before was just finishing up a gun shot wound that had come in in the middle of the night. I went to look up at the board and he had another full day of cases that day.

 

[turkeyjerky]

You know what your right. Dr.s in groups with only three physicians take q3 call. 3 and 4 man groups are very common if not the norm. Also you are correct that its not in house which makes some difference but theres plenty of nights where it might as well be if you are in a specialty with acutely ill patients. Believe me I have seen it in my family and in previous work.There were times where I would show up to my job in the OR at 6 am and a local surgeon who had operated on a full case load the day before was just finishing up a gun shot wound that had come in in the middle of the night. I went to look up at the board and he had another full day of cases that day.

That may be true, but it's definitely not the norm in today's practice. You have a great degree of control in your scheduling no matter what specialty you choose. I would caution you against drawing too many conclusions from your experience w/ academic workaholic physicians or small town practitioners who desire to be everything to everyone.

 

[235009]

12 different people continuously scrutinizing you to ensure that you don't move your hands the wrong way (God forbid your hands go above shoulder level for even a millisecond!!!) or touch the wrong things

....while the attending puts his hands and touches whatever the f he wants without anyone objecting

i wouldn't mind the scrutiny as much if everyone was held to the same standard

 

[MossPoh]

This just makes me realize how awesome and lucky I was with my surgery rotation. The most scrutiny I received revolved around whether I had a girlfriend and my beer or music preferences.

 

[ArcGurren]

Yeah, while I'll concede that you may have been with a miserable bunch, I'll strongly disagree with you that general surgeons are more concerned about the procedure than the patient. Maybe that's how it is in ortho, but we calculate FENas, read EKGs, interpret our own CTs/x-rays, manage our ICU patients, and more. We even admit a not-insignificant number of patients that we never operate on, and we manage their medical issues. There are some medical issues that I think we do better with than our hospitalists, because we're more attentive to our patients and check up on them more often than they do.

Also, I have a grade II/VI mid-systolic crescendo/decrescendo murmur when I'm dehydrated that I can hear when I yawn. Your residents were probably looking at other factors that indicate dehydration (BP, HR, UOP, urine color, BUN/Cr, etc).



Ding ding ding. If you're waiting for a murmur to tell you about a ruptured papillary muscle let alone a septum/wall of the heart, you're going to be a day late and a dollar short.

Homie:

1) You're a good surgical resident and I would definitely come to someone like you if I were to ever (god forbid) have a surgical problem. I'm glad that your understanding of medicine is so good. However, it was not the case for the surgical residents I worked with for whatever reason, and maybe it's just something that comes with practice. On the other hand a number of the attendings I worked with had amazing understanding of medicine.

2) I'm aware that the guy's septum was not perf'd. I'm not a *****. I'm fairly sure the residents weren't doing anything but being annoyed at me for my presentation taking 3 minutes instead of 2 and the fact that the resident clearly didn't bother listening and documenting it in the first place (otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it). That, I take issue with.

I think you guys are misunderstanding me a bit. I have a very healthy, huge respect for surgeons. However, I think the more common experience seems to be that people have a miserable time on their surgery rotations. While I still wouldn't have gone into surgery, I certainly wish I had a better experience on my surgery rotation as a whole as you did, TheProwler.

 

[ArcGurren]

I'm not a med student anymore but:

A. This is kinda like a neurology resident asking "I don't understand why all the med students think that sitting around for 45 minutes discussing how to 'localize the lesion' rather than just finding it on the CT we already did is so painful."

If you like the field, then you're probably going to find it interesting and exciting (as you clearly do). However, if you've realized that you're not particularly interested in gen surg, standing in one place for several hours at a time, dressed in a hot, stuffy gown, with 12 different people continuously scrutinizing you to ensure that you don't move your hands the wrong way (God forbid your hands go above shoulder level for even a millisecond!!!) or touch the wrong things, all while your mercurial attending/chief randomly pimps you, can be less than pleasant.

B. When I was a med student on gen surg, the expectation was that a medical student would be scrubbed in on every single case that our service was doing each day. As much as some us would have preferred to go and see consults, or help the interns with floor work, it often wasn't an option when there were 3-4 cases running simultaneously, all of which had to be "staffed" by a med student (because our retraction skills were apparently just that vital to the case). I still remember us getting yelled at by the chief for a good 20 or 30 minutes because some trivial procedure (I think it might have been a Port-a-Cath placement or something along those lines) went unstaffed.

Wow...those were such miserable, painful days.

This, I think, is probably one of the best posts I've seen so far. I was most certainly happier doing something I enjoyed; if I had been allowed to run consults and do floor work during my surgery rotation more instead of simply being dragooned into random cases purely to fill some imaginary quota of medical students (because we're clearly so useful in the OR beyond a target of pimping) then I would have gotten more out of it. However, there is this persistent belief that on a surgery rotation, being scrubbed in and in the OR is somehow more important than doing other work above all else - which I disagree with; the management of patients off the floor is in my opinion just as important, and I feel like I'd learn more things useful to my future that way.

 

[b-real]

This, I think, is probably one of the best posts I've seen so far. I was most certainly happier doing something I enjoyed; if I had been allowed to run consults and do floor work during my surgery rotation more instead of simply being dragooned into random cases purely to fill some imaginary quota of medical students (because we're clearly so useful in the OR beyond a target of pimping) then I would have gotten more out of it. However, there is this persistent belief that on a surgery rotation, being scrubbed in and in the OR is somehow more important than doing other work above all else - which I disagree with; the management of patients off the floor is in my opinion just as important, and I feel like I'd learn more things useful to my future that way.

Totally agree with this. This may be a shock to surgeons/surgery residents, but the halls of the OR are not hallowed for everyone. I also agree with an earlier post that stated that surgery tends to be miserable for students more often than not. I don't think that surgery attracts miserable people, but I've noticed that there is a clear progression of misery between classes. PGY1 residents are generally nice/courteous, while PGY4/5 residents were a nightmare to deal with.

 

[olemissbabydoc]

Haha, that's funny to me. Our chief residents are >>> interns/lower levels. They may be jaded, but they can taste graduation and that makes them happy.

 

[VenusinFurs]

30 hr call consisted of me being ignored, getting yelled at for trying to get involved and then getting yelled at for falling asleep.

 

[olemissbabydoc]

30 hr call consisted of me being ignored, getting yelled at for trying to get involved and then getting yelled at for falling asleep.

Pretty much. They don't yell at us much though. More just being ignored while simultaneously being expected to show up to every call before the residents.

 

[AlexMorph]

Pretty much. They don't yell at us much though. More just being ignored while simultaneously being expected to show up to every call before the residents.

hahahaha so true

 

[Azipropofol]

M3 kinda sucks thus far... except for the occasional drink with new friends, this really rocks.

 

[disorder]

i really wonder how many people who say that "third year sucks" have worked before entering medical school.

honestly, it's just work. work is full of bull**** with an inbred culture that will somehow always be annoying in some form or another.

anyways, third year is so so so much better than first and second year combined.

 

[osumc2014]

The part I dislike the most is beginning of a new rotation not knowing where anything is, and in fields such as surgery not knowing any protocols in the OR or even OR hallways. Getting laughed at or disbelief of not knowing something simple everyone knows how to do but as a med student we just never had a chance to learn. Doing a whole lot of scut work but not being rewarded with more intensive work, thus leading to thumb twiddling sessions.

The worse I think is finally getting used to a rotation of where everything is, how to take care of patients the way the attending likes, getting liked by the nurses and MAs, then bam! The rotation is over (seemingly the day that you finally get comfortable) then rinse and repeat.

 

[Rollo]

The part I dislike the most is beginning of a new rotation not knowing where anything is, and in fields such as surgery not knowing any protocols in the OR or even OR hallways. Getting laughed at or disbelief of not knowing something simple everyone knows how to do but as a med student we just never had a chance to learn. Doing a whole lot of scut work but not being rewarded with more intensive work, thus leading to thumb twiddling sessions.

The worse I think is finally getting used to a rotation of where everything is, how to take care of patients the way the attending likes, getting liked by the nurses and MAs, then bam! The rotation is over (seemingly the day that you finally get comfortable) then rinse and repeat.

LOL, welcome to third year. Just be grateful that your school doesn't send you to a new hospital i.e. new system, new people, new attendings, new hospital, etc. every 4 weeks because your school lacks a base hospital.

It's basically like starting a new job every 4 weeks and frankly, you never get used to it. You just get sick and tired and frustrated of the whole routine. My non-medicine friend the other day commented how he would go absolutely nuts if he had to change jobs every 4 weeks and learn tricks of the trade only to have to go work in a new field next.

And add on top of that, you're supposed to be able to figure out what you want to do for the next 30+ years based on rudimentary experience of 4-8 weeks where the first 2 weeks are spent just figuring out how to get around in the hospital and getting comfortable working with residents/attendings/nurses.

Through all of this, I have definitely come to appreciate the residents and the attendings who are super friendly and act like they've known you forever and trust you from the outset.

 

[45408]

The part I dislike the most is beginning of a new rotation not knowing where anything is, and in fields such as surgery not knowing any protocols in the OR or even OR hallways. Getting laughed at or disbelief of not knowing something simple everyone knows how to do but as a med student we just never had a chance to learn. Doing a whole lot of scut work but not being rewarded with more intensive work, thus leading to thumb twiddling sessions.

The worse I think is finally getting used to a rotation of where everything is, how to take care of patients the way the attending likes, getting liked by the nurses and MAs, then bam! The rotation is over (seemingly the day that you finally get comfortable) then rinse and repeat.

Yep. It sucks, and there's not much we can do to help you out through some of it. You just have to learn some of these things on your own. I rotated through three hospitals in my first three months, so I had to learn new paging systems, new hospital layouts, new EMRs, new parking lots, and everything in between. You get much faster at picking things up though, which helps.

Someone might be laughing because it seems so foreign now that they didn't know those things once. I laugh sometimes, but I'm not laughing at the students, I'm just recalling the awkward moments I went through at that time, and I'm happy to be through with them...

 

[VisionaryTics]

LOL, welcome to third year. Just be grateful that your school doesn't send you to a new hospital i.e. new system, new people, new attendings, new hospital, etc. every 4 weeks because your school lacks a base hospital.

It's basically like starting a new job every 4 weeks and frankly, you never get used to it. You just get sick and tired and frustrated of the whole routine. My non-medicine friend the other day commented how he would go absolutely nuts if he had to change jobs every 4 weeks and learn tricks of the trade only to have to go work in a new field next.

And add on top of that, you're supposed to be able to figure out what you want to do for the next 30+ years based on rudimentary experience of 4-8 weeks where the first 2 weeks are spent just figuring out how to get around in the hospital and getting comfortable working with residents/attendings/nurses.

Through all of this, I have definitely come to appreciate the residents and the attendings who are super friendly and act like they've known you forever and trust you from the outset.

I know that feel.

I'll be at five hospitals throughout third year (university hospital, VA, three community hospitals).

 

[missmedschool]

haha...the OP hit the nail RIGHT on the head. M3 year is making me forget there are such things as happiness and beauty in the World. Well...M3 year and bed sores that I can stick my whole hand into...

The absolutely worst thing about M3...even worse than the horrible subjective grading, waking up at 3 30, standing for four hours in an OR for no discernible reason since you can't see anything and no one's teaching you anything...even worse that all that...is learning the reality of medicine and that it's filled with petty, arrogant, unfriendly people.

I literally had a Plastics attending denigrate an Ortho doc's plan by saying "My board scores are higher than his...I'm smarter than he is."

I had no idea Medicine was so regimented and hierarchical. It's like the Military. It kills me inside to see intelligent adults being humiliated by other, slightly older adults in a way that would not be accepted in any other field.

This.

I'm in my OB rotation & absolutely disgusted at how callous & mean they are about their patients & even their FELLOW residents ... But I'm gonna chalk it up to this particular OB residency. I'm sure all OB/GYN drs aren't this cold ... :-/

 

[elektroshok]

Best part about third year are the two 2 week breaks we get after every second rotation.

 

[panicattackmode]

I'm on the psych rotation right now and I absolutely HATE asking people to rate their depression/anxiety. I want to staple my mouth shut every time I have to ask that question which is multiple times everyday.

 

[IJL]

Really having a hard time with 3rd year right now.

- I hate being judged, graded, and evaluated on just about everything that comes out of your mouth, it's mentally exhausting

- I hate being graded poorly by some attending that maybe spent 5 minutes with you at the beginning of a rotation and have it play such a big factor in your overall clerkship grade

At this point I don't think I can put up with the BS that I would have to deal with in order to get honors, so I don't really see myself honoring any rotation. Not sure how that is going to play into residency apps. It is really frustrating to get 97% on a shelf, work really hard on a rotation, actively try to learn, read, etc. and essentially have nothing to show for it.

I enjoy getting to learn about diseases and actually apply them to real patients, it's just everything else that sucks major balls.

 

[amakhosidlo]

Really having a hard time with 3rd year right now.

- I hate being judged, graded, and evaluated on just about everything that comes out of your mouth, it's mentally exhausting

- I hate being graded poorly by some attending that maybe spent 5 minutes with you at the beginning of a rotation and have it play such a big factor in your overall clerkship grade

At this point I don't think I can put up with the BS that I would have to deal with in order to get honors, so I don't really see myself honoring any rotation. Not sure how that is going to play into residency apps. It is really frustrating to get 97% on a shelf, work really hard on a rotation, actively try to learn, read, etc. and essentially have nothing to show for it.

Right there with you. And I know people are going to come out of the wood work with the 'deal with it that's just how things are', but honestly. Why? It's such a god-awful system that puts your future livelihood, something you've worked so unbelievably hard for, needlessly at the mercy of ****ty luck. Why? Why can't a test of functional knowledge trump that? "Oh, you've wanted to go into x specialty since you can remember? Well too bad your attending on that rotation happens to be a malignant ass*ole. His wife's leaving him because he cheated and now he's totally taking it out on you, really for no other reason than you look like her. Gee, hope you can find something else to put that 10 years of work towards, because he's wholly in charge of your grade. Oh, and that letter of rec.

Seriously. F. This.

 

[Aclamity]

I hate getting pimped, answering correctly, and then having the attending (incorrectly) tell me I'm wrong. Can't really argue with her for fear of looking like a jacka**, but it sucks when she makes me feel like an idiot for the rest of the day.

What do you guys do in that situation?

 

[Rollo]

I hate getting pimped, answering correctly, and then having the attending (incorrectly) tell me I'm wrong. Can't really argue with her for fear of looking like a jacka**, but it sucks when she makes me feel like an idiot for the rest of the day.

What do you guys do in that situation?

If it's regarding something that is actively harming the patient, then I'd talk to your residents first.

If it's just a general medical knowledge pimp questions, then I usually just let it go and sometimes if I really care about the topic, I'll bring it up with my residents and ask them why the attending thinks differently...this way, you don't come off as accusing attending of being flat out wrong. You will find that sometimes attendings give a "wrong" answer because that is something they are used to and not the textbook answer.

It will never work in your favor to tell the attending he/she is wrong in front of your whole team. That would just be asking for trouble.

 

[45408]

Right there with you. And I know people are going to come out of the wood work with the 'deal with it that's just how things are', but honestly. Why? It's such a god-awful system that puts your future livelihood, something you've worked so unbelievably hard for, needlessly at the mercy of ****ty luck. Why? Why can't a test of functional knowledge trump that? "Oh, you've wanted to go into x specialty since you can remember? Well too bad your attending on that rotation happens to be a malignant ass*ole. His wife's leaving him because he cheated and now he's totally taking it out on you, really for no other reason than you look like her. Gee, hope you can find something else to put that 10 years of work towards, because he's wholly in charge of your grade. Oh, and that letter of rec.

Seriously. F. This.

That's pretty rare. Most people get the grades they earned. If someone really has it out for you, then do an elective at another site and do better.

I'm also not sure what you think a "test of functional knowledge" should really resemble.

 

[sanityonleave]

That's pretty rare. Most people get the grades they earned. If someone really has it out for you, then do an elective at another site and do better.

I'm also not sure what you think a "test of functional knowledge" should really resemble.

I feel like I'm in the minority, but I so 100% agree with this. Take it with a grain of salt since I've just completed my first clerkship (granted, supposedly one of the most malignant), but in general the grading has been occasionally arbitrary but mostly fair. The folks who started bitching after our grades were posted tend to be the ones who didn't have the self-awareness to notice they were upsetting people / not doing what was expected of them during the rotation.

The one thing I will say is that your grade doesn't necessarily reflect how much you know (and I'm not sure it should). Your grade reflects whether you're a) easy to work with and b) a hard worker, which are far more important attributes to your residents and attendings than whether you happen to have gunned your way through 3 prep books before that rotation.

 

[IJL]

The one thing I will say is that your grade doesn't necessarily reflect how much you know (and I'm not sure it should). Your grade reflects whether you're a) easy to work with and b) a hard worker, which are far more important attributes to your residents and attendings than whether you happen to have gunned your way through 3 prep books before that rotation.

disagree with this statement.

 

[45408]

disagree with this statement.

don't elaborate or anything

 

[FutbolFanatic88]

Right there with you. And I know people are going to come out of the wood work with the 'deal with it that's just how things are', but honestly. Why? It's such a god-awful system that puts your future livelihood, something you've worked so unbelievably hard for, needlessly at the mercy of ****ty luck. Why? Why can't a test of functional knowledge trump that? "Oh, you've wanted to go into x specialty since you can remember? Well too bad your attending on that rotation happens to be a malignant ass*ole. His wife's leaving him because he cheated and now he's totally taking it out on you, really for no other reason than you look like her. Gee, hope you can find something else to put that 10 years of work towards, because he's wholly in charge of your grade. Oh, and that letter of rec.

Seriously. F. This.

As an M2 looking to go into a competitive specialty, I gotta say that this post scares the **** out of me.

 

[HalladayWeekend]

Right there with you. And I know people are going to come out of the wood work with the 'deal with it that's just how things are', but honestly. Why? It's such a god-awful system that puts your future livelihood, something you've worked so unbelievably hard for, needlessly at the mercy of ****ty luck. Why? Why can't a test of functional knowledge trump that? "Oh, you've wanted to go into x specialty since you can remember? Well too bad your attending on that rotation happens to be a malignant ass*ole. His wife's leaving him because he cheated and now he's totally taking it out on you, really for no other reason than you look like her. Gee, hope you can find something else to put that 10 years of work towards, because he's wholly in charge of your grade. Oh, and that letter of rec.

Seriously. F. This.

Your description is overblown. In my experience, a lot of doctors like to give the high pass rather than honors. These people (for the most part) are not out to screw med students. Come to 3rd year willing to learn and work hard and you will do fine. Whether you get honors or high pass probably has more to do with who you work with than your actual performance.

With that being said, it's a joke of a system.

 

[amakhosidlo]

Whether you get honors or high pass probably has more to do with who you work with than your actual performance.

With that being said, it's a joke of a system.

Exactly. My. Point.

Are they going to fail you without you deserving it? Probably not. Are they going to hold you back from honoring your rotation for some B.S reason, or no reason at all? Probably. Will program directors make a pile of applications from people who did honor the rotation (leaving your high pass or, God forbid, pass, in the "if we have time" pile), to look more closely at?
You bet.

 

[SteinUmStein]

Exactly. My. Point.

Are they going to fail you without you deserving it? Probably not. Are they going to hold you back from honoring your rotation for some B.S reason, or no reason at all? Probably. Will program directors make a pile of applications from people who did honor the rotation (leaving your high pass or, God forbid, pass, in the "if we have time" pile), to look more closely at?
You bet.

Now that I've actually seen what goes into (and what doesn't go into) a clinical grade M3 year, I'm shocked that your clinical "performance" counts as much as it does toward residency apps. If I were a prog director I'd probably use letters of rec and Step scores almost exclusively, in addition to the interview, unless the student literally failed multiple rotations.

 

[futuredoctor10]

Now that I've actually seen what goes into (and what doesn't go into) a clinical grade M3 year, I'm shocked that your clinical "performance" counts as much as it does toward residency apps. If I were a prog director I'd probably use letters of rec and Step scores almost exclusively, in addition to the interview, unless the student literally failed multiple rotations.

Can you elaborate on what sorts of things go into the clinical grade which surprised you?
And also what things were excluded from the grade / doesn't go into the grade?

 

[netminder]

Why can't a test of functional knowledge trump that?

Rewind. Are you implying that any shelf exam is "a test of functional knowledge"? Those with far more experience than both of us would probably agree this is not exactly the case.

Also, are you asserting that factors like our attitude, and how we get along with the residents, PA's, nurses, patient care assistants, and others should NOT be factors in our grades? If I try to put myself in the place of a resident or attending assessing my potential as a future resident and colleague, I can't help be see how critical these factors are. I wish I could rip a 97 on every shelf, but I've never run into a resident or attending who really cared about anything other than our work ethic, our approach to patient care, and our ability to be selfless team players.

Comments from those who would know? Prowler?

 

[MilkmanAl]

I've never run into a resident or attending who really cared about anything other than our work ethic, our approach to patient care, and our ability to be selfless team players.

Comments from those who would know? Prowler?

I wouldn't say that work ethic and teamwork are all that matter, but I'd much rather work with someone who is above-average as far as knowledge and patient care go but fun to work with than someone who's a knowledge rockstar but just okay as a group member. Given that everyone has a decent sense of how to do their job well, though, I'd much rather work with cool people.

 

[amakhosidlo]

Rewind. Are you implying that any shelf exam is "a test of functional knowledge"?

By definition, yes. Do they test things 'worth knowing'? Questionable, but that isn't the student's problem. The course chairs set the bar in terms of what knowledge base a student should have developed, and it's easily within their power to set whatever higher bar they think differentiates competency from excellence, again talking just about knowledge-base here.

Also, are you asserting that factors like our attitude, and how we get along with the residents, PA's, nurses, patient care assistants, and others should NOT be factors in our grades?

Did I say that? Of course not. But I feel like A) Your definition and my definition or work ethic and attitude can vary widely, as can what we think should qualify someone for honors. No way to standardize that. And B) There's a place for evaluating those things, and that's in the subjective course evals (Narrative of their impression of the student) or letters of rec. At our school, the content of these write-ups goes into our MSPE. I feel like that's where things like work ethic, attitude, 'plays well with others' stuff should go. If there were an objective way to 'grade' a person's personality and work ethic, that'd be great, probably a better indication of their potential than a test of their knowledge. But the fact is, there isn't. There just isn't.

Showed up? Check
Wasn't a D-bag? Check
Didn't kill anyone? Check
Pulled his/her weight? Followed instructions? Check, check.
Passed shelf? Check
-->Pass.

Put in extra effort (Something pre-determined at the outset, like writing a paper, or doing a presentation)? Check.
Hit whatever pre-determined %tile on the shelf exam? Check
-->Honors

Didn't do quite well enough on the shelf? Presentation tanked? Hmm...Still had a good work ethic, got along with staff?
-->High Pass.

Concerned that makes things too easy? Make the honors requirements more stringent, but again, standardized and well-defined.

You want to praise Johny's compassion and can-do attitude? Or bash him because you're having a bad day? Open up the 'comments' section and have at it.

Problem solved.

 

[andon]

Now imagine how attendings feel when patients rate them online

 

[45408]

By definition, yes.

No. Functional knowledge would be the ability to apply it at 3am when the patient is crashing, when you don't have five options laid out in front of you, where 2-3 are easily ruled out, and the other is obviously correct as long as you know the material.

The shelf is good for book knowledge, which is definitely important, but I would not say that it is an effective measure of functional knowledge at all.

 

[netminder]

No. Functional knowledge would be the ability to apply it at 3am when the patient is crashing, when you don't have five options laid out in front of you, where 2-3 are easily ruled out, and the other is obviously correct as long as you know the material.

The shelf is good for book knowledge, which is definitely important, but I would not say that it is an effective measure of functional knowledge at all.

Well said; thank you.

 

[Abider]

So far I like it better than year 1,2. Largely because it's more real. Even though it makes no difference whether I'm there or not at least the rehearsals for real life are less like a canned Leno routine and more like reality tv.

But I dislike the divergences of interest. Like when an an ancient surgeon is convinced I absolutely need to know the pouch of this...or the gutter of that..... Or the archeological technique for this....rather than passing my shelf.

Or the subjective game show events where my willingness to buzzer in and cut off my colleagues in mid sentence is taken to represent knowledge.

And no....you can't tell the difference nor are your measures consistent enough to self-consistent. You know who you like, who you'd like to work with, who shows up, who tries, who cares about their patients and that's a decent approximation of something worthwhile.

But sell the bridge of accurate objective 3rd year measures to some other sucker.

I'm happy enough because I play nice in the sandbox.

But there's enough stupid reindeer games that I'm shifting my focus to more self directed motivations and focus.

 

[migm]

.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Or the subjective game show events where my willingness to buzzer in and cut off my colleagues in mid sentence is taken to represent knowledge.

I've had residents and attendings both tell me upfront (not because I did it) that if they ask someone a question, to give the person a chance to answer first rather than in a group style.

I've had all of my senior residents tell me that when the attending asks the intern a question, don't answer it for them. It makes them look bad and makes the student look like he's not a team player.

 

[Abider]

I've had residents and attendings both tell me upfront (not because I did it) that if they ask someone a question, to give the person a chance to answer first rather than in a group style.

I've had all of my senior residents tell me that when the attending asks the intern a question, don't answer it for them. It makes them look bad and makes the student look like he's not a team player.

Yeah there are some who organize the academic gaming with honor and chivalry. And then there's the lord of the flies type **** that make dirtbags out of all of us. I wish I could say the former was the more common.

But whatever. I'm learning a lot by immersive means anyway, like everyone. But was just riffing on the thread topic to my mind's satisfaction.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

Post pad.

 

[causalinference]

The worst part about 3rd year is dealing with annoying interns who have over-inflated senses of self-worth.

 

[ArcGurren]

The best part about third year is that it ends, and then 4th year initially sucks when you're applying. Once Step 2 CK and CS are done, interviews are underway/close to being finished, and you've got everything set up, it's awesome.

 

[Margo]

This

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5Zc3b9Y1Os
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSsw7yOm2mE

 

[LossForWords]

The best part about third year is that it ends, and then 4th year initially sucks when you're applying. Once Step 2 CK and CS are done, interviews are underway/close to being finished, and you've got everything set up, it's awesome.

This. I am loving 4th year and all the free time they throw at you.

 

[shadowfox87]

There are probably not many people like me, but I would take MS1/2 over MS3 anyday. For all the reasons already stated in this thread, I do not like MS3 one bit. I feel like a mindless drone at times. The best part of the day is driving to work and driving back. Granted there are awesome learning days, but most of the time, it is acting like you are doing something.