- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 6,234
- Reaction score
- 1,658
I prefer avoiding them and deliberately making their lives more difficult when I'm forced to interact them, all the while maintaining plausible deniability.
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2014
- Messages
- 1,793
- Reaction score
- 1,855
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,668
- Reaction score
- 2,609
My 3rd and 4th years were in the middle of nowhere where there weren't residents, so the procedures were all mine. Think I had 50 intubations, 3 paracentesis, 5 central lines done by the time I started running around for interview season 4th year.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2012
- Messages
- 1,992
- Reaction score
- 2,159
The nurse preceptor didn't steal all your procedures?
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,668
- Reaction score
- 2,609
Hah nicely done.
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2014
- Messages
- 10
- Reaction score
- 10
Clinical years of med school are hell. Honestly is it fair to make students work 60-80 hours/weeks as slaves?? And them force them to go a further 100k in debt??? All the while being treated like crap from interns, PMSing ob/gyns, and temper-tantrum surgeons.
4th year being a paradise is the biggest load of BS I've ever heard. It's even more stressful than 3rd year. Traveling all over the country to interview in airports that don't function in winter weather is easily one of the worst experiences anyone can go through.
Ass-licking at interviews sucks too. Then you get assigned a place to live for the next 3-9 years of your life.
Then the interview season ends and your life actually gets somewhat decent for like 4-5 months!
When I start residency in a month, my med students go home at 9 AM if they aren't interested in the field and noon when they are (unless they beg to stay). No scut work from me!!!!! ( *｀ω´)
4th year being a paradise is the biggest load of BS I've ever heard. It's even more stressful than 3rd year. Traveling all over the country to interview in airports that don't function in winter weather is easily one of the worst experiences anyone can go through.
Ass-licking at interviews sucks too. Then you get assigned a place to live for the next 3-9 years of your life.
Then the interview season ends and your life actually gets somewhat decent for like 4-5 months!
When I start residency in a month, my med students go home at 9 AM if they aren't interested in the field and noon when they are (unless they beg to stay). No scut work from me!!!!! ( *｀ω´)
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2014
- Messages
- 1,793
- Reaction score
- 1,855
New.Favorite.Poster.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2014
- Messages
- 1,793
- Reaction score
- 1,855
Which reminds me, we have "Medical Student (Accepted)" looks like we need a "Resident (Matched)".
- Joined
- May 24, 2009
- Messages
- 4,673
- Reaction score
- 10,543
Conversely, we need neither of those.
- Joined
- May 24, 2009
- Messages
- 4,673
- Reaction score
- 10,543
It's good to see that you have learned early that the intern wields all the power when it comes to all things medicine.
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2006
- Messages
- 3,513
- Reaction score
- 2,611
Even though I like the post and it's attitude, I thought the same thing. It's rare that the intern would send medical students home independently and not be asked, Where are the med students, by a superior. Who then might even have to answer to a clerkship director or something like that.
That said the ortho intern I worked with was in complete charge of me and another student and we hustled to get his morning/afternoon work done and then he sent us home. A perfect scenario. So it does happen.
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2011
- Messages
- 928
- Reaction score
- 877
I had one difficult month in my entire 4th year. Interviewing was actually pretty fun in my opinion -- it's an excuse to visit places you may not normally visit. I don't get the "ass-licking" part of interviews...felt programs were trying to sell themselves as much as applicants were. Maybe radiology is unique and it's the only specialty where people are really nice everywhere on the interview trail. And you got "assigned" a place to live? Wait, did someone else order your rank list for you?
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,034
You do get assigned - by algorithm.
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2011
- Messages
- 928
- Reaction score
- 877
FastRunner's post implies that he/she has zero say in the matter. The algorithm is biased towards the applicant, may we all remember.
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2014
- Messages
- 10
- Reaction score
- 10
It is barely biased towards the applicant. Only in a small number of instances will the applicant match higher than if the algorithm was biased towards the program.
I personally was assigned to my #2 choice but I know many others who had to go to some undesirable places because they dropped to #5 or lower.
Also my #1 choice was where I wanted to live. They didn't even rank me (I can tell cause they scrambled lol).
So if you're a good applicant/lucky, you can choose, if not the system chooses for you.
- Joined
- May 25, 2012
- Messages
- 89
- Reaction score
- 33
Today was the best day of 3rd year. Today was also my last day of 3rd year. What a coincidence.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,034
That bad, huh? Congrats on finishing MS-3.
- Joined
- May 25, 2012
- Messages
- 89
- Reaction score
- 33
Let's just say for a profession that necessitates compassion and empathy, there sure are a lot of jerks in medicine.
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2014
- Messages
- 11,384
- Reaction score
- 24,027
Looking forward to third year
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,034
There's an old adage I heard from someone that medical schools say they want medical students who have empathy and compassion for their patients, but then once they enroll they try their hardest to stamp out any empathy and compassion they may have left. The same way they also say they don't want people who are just good at multiple choice tests, even though those are the ones who get ahead in med school - esp. in the first 2 years, on boards, on shelf exams. Empathy and compassion for patients doesn't get you any points (I'm talking about real empathy and compassion not fake acting in front of a resident/attending), while answering pimp questions correctly and medical knowledge at the tip of your fingers does.
http://www.amednews.com/article/20080324/profession/303249964/6/
The same way medical students are now taught they should be professional, while being evaluated by residents/attendings who may be anything but professional.
- Joined
- May 25, 2012
- Messages
- 89
- Reaction score
- 33
I've always felt that the students that care the most (about the rotation, about their patients, about being a 'good student') all end up battered down by the end of 3rd year.
Word of advice: 3rd is more about not pissing people off than it is about actually learning. Learning happens, but it's at the periphery of the primary goal of not stepping on toes.
Word of advice: 3rd is more about not pissing people off than it is about actually learning. Learning happens, but it's at the periphery of the primary goal of not stepping on toes.
- Joined
- May 25, 2012
- Messages
- 89
- Reaction score
- 33
Just one of many reasons why I'm going into Rads. It's funny how the genesis of a radiologist always includes a component of intensely disliking 3rd year BS.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,034
And why Radiology will continue to be popular with American medical students. I don't know one Radiologist who says they wish they were doing clinical medicine (mainly bc of the bs).
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,034
I agree, the ones who were the most bright-eyed and bushy tailed at the beggining of MS-3, thinking it was going to be the most awesome thing in the world, were one of the most disillusioned. They also went for non-MS3 specialties.
I bolded what every MS-3 student should understand. MS-3 isn't a classroom, it's the real world.
D
da8s0859q
Hah! I considered radiology before choosing EM. Also intensely hated the third year BS.
cheers, i am opening a beer right now, in your honor
- Joined
- May 28, 2012
- Messages
- 3,029
- Reaction score
- 84
I just finished my first year and when everyone asks me how long until I'm a doctor I tell them I'm 1/4 of the way to being ready to be trained. I'm not counting on 3rd year being a ton of learning actual medicine. I'm thinking of it as being more like learning how to survive in the medical world, and a smattering of medicine throughout.
ohh you wont get any till they make you sick.
As dermviser said 3rd year is a taste of real world, class environment is like a manmade utopia.
you will learn a lot about medicine in 3rd year, i'd say you learn a lot given its duration, it is just that you learn many things you think you would not learn.
Many nuances will click into place.
some rotations feel like a drag, you will often question the usefulness, but in the end you look back and you'll see you learned alot, and you are better qualified to work again in that environment.
Unfortonetely your grades will be very perceptor dependent.
But dont think that your medical training starts in residence, that is completely wrong. If you think that, you'll be completely surprised at what kind of animals they can throw you at in 3rd and 4th year.
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2010
- Messages
- 3,287
- Reaction score
- 10,697
While grades are somewhat subjective and attending/resident dependent, I have to say that I felt mine were spot on overall and when I heard people complain about theirs I generally agreed with the evaluator. In some ways it's comical - I can think of people who did nothing but complain and whine about how bored they were for the entire clerkship and then act stunned and upset when an evaluation said they were uninterested and not engaged. While there are definitely some unfair evals handed out, I think students generally underestimate how much of their true attitude comes across to the team. You know how you can tell when your classmates are bored and over it? Well, people can tell when you feel that way too.
We had one resident at my medical school's program transfer out of radiology into medicine, so I guess your statement will continue to hold true.
Last edited:
Nope. He went from radiology to medicine. He would have been a R2, but he's finishing up his requirements for PGY1 IM status and moving along in that program instead.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2009
- Messages
- 1,974
- Reaction score
- 2,682
I think "going to be an R2" means he had finished his intern year as well as a year of radiology (R1 year).
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,034
But he said, "but he's finishing up his requirements for PGY1 IM status and moving along in that program instead."
2
235009
Because as a prelim you don't do the outpatient pgy-1 requirements so you can't just go on to pgy-2 without doing some extra intern time.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,034
As a prelim, outpatient medicine clinic is an option you can do (which none of us take), but as far as funding, it counts fully as 1 year of a categorical residency.
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2012
- Messages
- 1,156
- Reaction score
- 503
Skipped ahead.
I generally enjoyed 3rd year with two exceptions: Students started getting huge egos and a few were always trashing classmates hoping to garner favor (or a great LOR) from Attendings.
Being with the patients, residents, and doctors was generally fun and a great learning experience.
I generally enjoyed 3rd year with two exceptions: Students started getting huge egos and a few were always trashing classmates hoping to garner favor (or a great LOR) from Attendings.
Being with the patients, residents, and doctors was generally fun and a great learning experience.
No, they're correct. He did his TY, did R1, then decided to go back to being (technically) a PGY-1 in medicine. He has something like a month or two of work in that year before he can be promoted. He'll catch up and be on track to graduate his internal medicine residency in 2016.
2
235009
You just end up forgoing elective time later on in your residency to catch up on the rotations you didn't do during your intern year and finish on time.
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2014
- Messages
- 11,384
- Reaction score
- 24,027
Man I'm feeling #2 and #3
Classmates who go in super early to pick up the interesting new admissions and shout out the answers for all the questions before I even have a chance to say anything
I liked outpatient where I just do an H&P by myself and then report to the attending with a nice little assessment and plan. Don't like going in with a resident and getting dominated
Classmates who go in super early to pick up the interesting new admissions and shout out the answers for all the questions before I even have a chance to say anything
I liked outpatient where I just do an H&P by myself and then report to the attending with a nice little assessment and plan. Don't like going in with a resident and getting dominated
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,034
OB-Gyn?
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,034
I wouldn't tolerate the not getting to answer thing by your classmates. That can come to bite you come evaluation time. Speak with them directly or talk with the attending (there's a way to phrase it properly).
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2008
- Messages
- 8,829
- Reaction score
- 9,087
Plenty of medicine programs make their prelims do the exact same continuity clinic as their categoricals. Some make them just do urgent care for a year instead. And some don't make them do clinic at all. It really varies.
But back on topic: Third year sucks. It really does. But what we all kept in mind is that life gets better! 🙂
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2013
- Messages
- 437
- Reaction score
- 357
Curious, what is the proper way to phrase it to an attending?
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 134
- Reaction score
- 45
Don't expect this. Your most rapid period of growth in your training should be MS3 and intern year because they are the years where you are thrust into new responsibilities.
Of course, if your medical school has piss poor clinical training and you're just shadowing third year, then you will have a different experience. My school is well known among resident directors to have very good clinical training so take my experience as an N=1, but I think the majority of medical schools will provide a good experience.
Your medicine rotation should involve the most direct patient care, and you should be seeing new admissions ahead of the resident then presenting the pt to them and/or the attending.
I certainly have my gripes about third year, but none of them have to do with learning. I think the commenters with shadowing-like third years are louder than the rest, so you should expect to learn a lot third year.
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2011
- Messages
- 3,477
- Reaction score
- 1,676
Starting clinicals in July is the worst because you take a backseat to the new interns. The learning I've gotten is basically trickle-down from the learnings the interns get. Which I'm fine with because it's Ob/Gyn, but I can imagine the frustration if it's something you wanted to do.
So far, my experience has been that 3rd year is like 20% learning, 80% wasted time. I can write notes which no one really reads/uses. I get some decent feedback on them, but the interns need practice writing notes so seniors pay attention to them more (which is completely understandable). Most of the time, I'm just watching an intern or senior write a note and reading up on random **** that I come across. I don't really get to manage a patient, mostly because managing a patient in labor is the most boring thing ever. Is her Pitocin on? okay, wait 4 more hours and see if she's made any change. Anything complicated obviously gets bumped to the interns/residents.
I feel like I could have gotten the same education working 3-4 hours a day instead of 12-14 hours a day. Probably even better because then I would actually have had time to read.
So far, my experience has been that 3rd year is like 20% learning, 80% wasted time. I can write notes which no one really reads/uses. I get some decent feedback on them, but the interns need practice writing notes so seniors pay attention to them more (which is completely understandable). Most of the time, I'm just watching an intern or senior write a note and reading up on random **** that I come across. I don't really get to manage a patient, mostly because managing a patient in labor is the most boring thing ever. Is her Pitocin on? okay, wait 4 more hours and see if she's made any change. Anything complicated obviously gets bumped to the interns/residents.
I feel like I could have gotten the same education working 3-4 hours a day instead of 12-14 hours a day. Probably even better because then I would actually have had time to read.
Welcome to third year of medical school.
