Think about this

[billclinton]

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sweet. this thread has the most views and posts in the pod forum. also, 3 of the top5 have to do with comparing pods to MD/DOs.... can you say inferiority complex?? 😉

 

[capo]

I've not met a pod that was inferior. Heck, with the lifestyle, income and time for family, I'd say it's rather cushy medicine if you ask me. I know many family practice docs that would probably LOVE to be pods nowadays.

 

[IlizaRob]

sweet. this thread has the most views and posts in the pod forum. also, 3 of the top5 have to do with comparing pods to MD/DOs.... can you say inferiority complex?? 😉

Monday's a work day huh? What do you do for a living anyway Bill?

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Monday's a work day huh? What do you do for a living anyway Bill?

He manual masturbates caged animals for artifical insemination (Clerks). 😍

😱 😕 🙁

 

[billclinton]

He manual masturbates caged animals for artifical insemination (Clerks). 😍

😱 😕 🙁

hey, well at least your mom appreciates my work! 😛

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

hey, well at least your mom appreciates my work! 😛

Yeah she does, we would have never had that prize winning calf in the state fair without jackoffs like you. That's what we call your profession in Nebraska is a jackoff, I'm not sure if it is the same where you are from? Well try not to get your hands too sticky, and remember the benefits, good money, your helping people, and all of the semen you can drink.

 

[billclinton]

Yeah she does, we would have never had that prize winning calf in the state fair without jackoffs like you. That's what we call your profession in Nebraska is a jackoff, I'm not sure if it is the same where you are from? Well try not to get your hands too sticky, and remember the benefits, good money, your helping people, and all of the semen you can drink.

yeh, i did think it was kind of odd that after i had got done doing your mom that she wanted me to tell her how to do what i did to her to small farm animals... but the pay was good, what can i say? 😉

 

[IlizaRob]

yeh, i did think it was kind of odd that after i had got done doing your mom that she wanted me to teach her how to do what i did to her to small farm animals... but the pay was good, what can i say? 😉

Although this tea party has been very educational to us all, do you guys mind moving this to your own thread or something? Thanks

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

yeh, i did think it was kind of odd that after i had got done doing your mom that she wanted me to tell her how to do what i did to her to small farm animals... but the pay was good, what can i say? 😉

If you are going to insult, use creativity. You seem like the candy @ss kid who got picked on and said something like "I am rubber you are glue." Then after he was thoroughly humiliated, took his ball and ran home to his coddling mother. Serious the “your mama” come back went out with parachute pants. You know Bill the pod obliviously won the argument b/c they are adding the pre-podiatric forum to the pre-medical school page. So take your ball and run home. Your mama OHHHHHHHHHHH! 😱

 

[Dr.Nick]

yeh, i did think it was kind of odd that after i had got done doing your mom that she wanted me to tell her how to do what i did to her to small farm animals... but the pay was good, what can i say? 😉

Hey everybody,

Bill, bill, bill....farm animals Bill...you've stouped to a new low....your mom would be ashamed of you...hold on she's using the bathroom to clean up...I'll get her

 

[billclinton]

If you are going to insult, use creativity. You seem like the candy @ss kid who got picked on and said something like "I am rubber you are glue." Then after he was thoroughly humiliated, took his ball and ran home to his coddling mother. Serious the “your mama” come back went out with parachute pants. You know Bill the pod obliviously won the argument b/c they are adding the pre-podiatric forum to the pre-medical school page. So take your ball and run home. Your mama OHHHHHHHHHHH! 😱

right. it is clear that more people have taken my side of the argument (should i remind you to revisit the poll)? the only people that agree with you are the other wanabe-physicians... aka medschool-rejects.

everybody knows that the loser is the one who can't come up with a decent comeback so they eventually resort to saying something about creativity.

Third of all, i know you have some trouble with understanding logic (as can be seen by reading other posts), but if you go back and read the OP's post you would see that it is about moving the pod forum to the medical school forum.... not about pre-pod to pre-med. A lot of pre-meds will never make it to medical school. A lot end up in dentistry, law, graduate school, optometry school.... and podiatry school. This is not to say that all students in these schools were pre-med (but a lot of pre-meds end up in these places).

...and guess what... they will never move the podiatry forum to the medical school forums because podiatry school is not medical school and because podiatrists are not physicians.

Now, if you excuse me... your mom has requested some more "calf-training".

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

right. it is clear that more people have taken my side of the argument (should i remind you to revisit the poll)? the only people that agree with you are the other wanabe-physicians... aka medschool-rejects.

everybody knows that the loser is the one who can't come up with a decent comeback so they eventually resort to saying something about creativity.

Third of all, i know you have some trouble with understanding logic (as can be seen by reading other posts), but if you go back and read the OP's post you would see that it is about moving the pod forum to the medical school forum.... not about pre-pod to pre-med. A lot of pre-meds will never make it to medical school. A lot end up in dentistry, law, graduate school, optometry school.... and podiatry school. This is not to say that all students in these schools were pre-med (but a lot of pre-meds end up in these places).

...and guess what... they will never move the podiatry forum to the medical school forums because podiatry school is not medical school and because podiatrists are not physicians.

Now, if you excuse me... your mom has requested some more "calf-training".

Creative ending back to your mama jokes, they really cut to the bone. If you look I was the OP, genius.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

One more thing Bill I think they are adding the podiatry area to the medical school area. I only asked the guy to move the pre-podiatry forum but this was his reponse.

"You bet -- actually, I'm doing a re-structuring of the mainpage to fully incorporate podiatry. It should be ready later this week. "

I don't know if this means the all of the pod forums are moving but that's the way it sounds. Sorry bud. Oh and your mama.

PS I'd be happy to forward the private message.

 

[billclinton]

Hey everybody,

Bill, bill, bill....farm animals Bill...you've stouped to a new low....your mom would be ashamed of you...hold on she's using the bathroom to clean up...I'll get her

you know it is kind of ironic. dr. nick is a horrible wanabe doctor from the simpsons. he's always trying to scam people. ....and hear you are... in the pod forums.... ironic, if i do say myself!

 

[billclinton]

One more thing Bill I think they are adding the podiatry area to the medical school area. I only asked the guy to move the pre-podiatry forum but this was his reponse.

"You bet -- actually, I'm doing a re-structuring of the mainpage to fully incorporate podiatry. It should be ready later this week. "

I don't know if this means the all of the pod forums are moving but that's the way it sounds. Sorry bud. Oh and your mama.

PS I'd be happy to forward the private message.

my friend, i will believe it when i see it.

forwarded PMs can be faked, so that isn't necessary.

 

[capo]

my friend, i will believe it when i see it.

forwarded PMs can be faked, so that isn't necessary.

Are you a transient at a library computer? All you do is post weird comments all day long. I'm sure you aren't doing anything successful with your life, if you've got time to banter on here all day like an idiot. Do you enjoy making a fool of yourself? I guess you like to stir things up but, in the real world you won't last a day in a profession with this chilidish behavior.

 

[billclinton]

Are you a transient at a library computer? All you do is post weird comments all day long. I'm sure you aren't doing anything successful with your life, if you've got time to banter on here all day like an idiot. Do you enjoy making a fool of yourself? I guess you like to stir things up but, in the real world you won't last a day in a profession with this chilidish behavior.

hey you know what... i think you're right. just from SDN, you have made an excellent judgement call! i think i will quit my job and go live in a cardboard box. thanks for bringing this to my attention.

 

[capo]

One more thing Bill I think they are adding the podiatry area to the medical school area. I only asked the guy to move the pre-podiatry forum but this was his reponse.

"You bet -- actually, I'm doing a re-structuring of the mainpage to fully incorporate podiatry. It should be ready later this week. "

I don't know if this means the all of the pod forums are moving but that's the way it sounds. Sorry bud. Oh and your mama.

PS I'd be happy to forward the private message.

This is LONG overdue! About time everyone woke up to smell the coffee. Pods are mianstays in medicine and every bit as important as a hand surgeon. Actually, I'd rather lose my hand than a foot, wouldn't you? They may actually be MORE important in this case, if you look at a pod vs. a hand ortho for example.

 

[capo]

hey you know what... i think you're right. just from SDN, you have made an excellent judgement call! i think i will quit my job and go live in a cardboard box. thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Hey if it gets you off sdn, it's fine by me. Good luck and go to warm weather places in the winter to sleep outside.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

hey you know what... i think you're right. just from SDN, you have made an excellent judgement call! i think i will quit my job and go live in a cardboard box. thanks for bringing this to my attention.

What do you do in the medical community? It says you are a medical student but I was wondering where you go to school.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Hey if it gets you off sdn, it's fine by me. Good luck and go to warm weather places in the winter to sleep outside.

Watch out he'll make a joke about you mom. He's very clever like that.

 

[capo]

Watch out he'll make a joke about you mom. He's very clever like that.

He's really probably not a bad guy, but I'm not sure his motives for posting nonsense on here daily?

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

He's really probably not a bad guy, but I'm not sure his motives for posting nonsense on here daily?

capo, I was wondering what his deal was so I looked at his posts. He has posted in 4 different forums. First he insulted the dental students, then insult chiropractor students, then use and then an allopathic student. I don't think he's a bad guy; I think he's got no life and gets his jollies by being tough on the internet cause he's a wiener in really life.

 

[JustMyLuck]

I've not met a pod that was inferior. Heck, with the lifestyle, income and time for family, I'd say it's rather cushy medicine if you ask me. I know many family practice docs that would probably LOVE to be pods nowadays.

A couple of others have also said that pod med affords a better lifestyle than other specialties/medical careers. I am just curious why you feel this way. How would the lifestyle of a podiatrist differ drastically from another type of doctor?

 

[pruritis_ani]

What a bunch of idiots. I can tell you that in my practice I will be very, very hesitant to refer any patients to a DPM. You guys appear to be a bunch of tools that wish you went to medical school!

FYI...attending 2 years with MD/DO students does not make your school medical school! You do NOT take every class with them in the first 2 years, and you certainly do not take very many classes with them in the last 2 years.

Because your title or school has the word medicine or medical in it does not make you a physician. Using this logic vets and chiros are physicians.

Also, take a look at the real world. In any community where there is any orthopod in practice that will work on the foot and ankle, he/she will get all of that business! I am starting to see why...you guys appear to be a bunch of MD wannabes that cannot deal with the limited scope of your degree and practice. And please don't give me that BS about "we can take care of the whole body, we learn about the whole body". Please. Until you do a MD/DO internship and residency you have NO BUSINESS treating anything outside of the foot and ankle. All MD's are trained and licesensed to practice unlimited medicine and surgery. Period.

Man, I can see why I have never seen a referal to a DPM for anything outside of a bunion or a diabetic. I swear I will send my patients 100 miles to an orthopod to avoid the DPM delusions of grandeur.

 

[krabmas]

What a bunch of idiots. I can tell you that in my practice I will be very, very hesitant to refer any patients to a DPM. You guys appear to be a bunch of tools that wish you went to medical school!

FYI...attending 2 years with MD/DO students does not make your school medical school! You do NOT take every class with them in the first 2 years, and you certainly do not take very many classes with them in the last 2 years.

Because your title or school has the word medicine or medical in it does not make you a physician. Using this logic vets and chiros are physicians.

Also, take a look at the real world. In any community where there is any orthopod in practice that will work on the foot and ankle, he/she will get all of that business! I am starting to see why...you guys appear to be a bunch of MD wannabes that cannot deal with the limited scope of your degree and practice. And please don't give me that BS about "we can take care of the whole body, we learn about the whole body". Please. Until you do a MD/DO internship and residency you have NO BUSINESS treating anything outside of the foot and ankle. All MD's are trained and licesensed to practice unlimited medicine and surgery. Period.

Man, I can see why I have never seen a referal to a DPM for anything outside of a bunion or a diabetic. I swear I will send my patients 100 miles to an orthopod to avoid the DPM delusions of grandeur.

Did that make you feel better? Explosive diarrhea of the mouth usually makes all the pain go away. 😱

 

[jonwill]

What a bunch of idiots. I can tell you that in my practice I will be very, very hesitant to refer any patients to a DPM. You guys appear to be a bunch of tools that wish you went to medical school!

FYI...attending 2 years with MD/DO students does not make your school medical school! You do NOT take every class with them in the first 2 years, and you certainly do not take very many classes with them in the last 2 years.

Because your title or school has the word medicine or medical in it does not make you a physician. Using this logic vets and chiros are physicians.

Also, take a look at the real world. In any community where there is any orthopod in practice that will work on the foot and ankle, he/she will get all of that business! I am starting to see why...you guys appear to be a bunch of MD wannabes that cannot deal with the limited scope of your degree and practice. And please don't give me that BS about "we can take care of the whole body, we learn about the whole body". Please. Until you do a MD/DO internship and residency you have NO BUSINESS treating anything outside of the foot and ankle. All MD's are trained and licesensed to practice unlimited medicine and surgery. Period.

Man, I can see why I have never seen a referal to a DPM for anything outside of a bunion or a diabetic. I swear I will send my patients 100 miles to an orthopod to avoid the DPM delusions of grandeur.

I am sorry that you feel that way about DPM's. Apparently, the medical community disagrees with you, seeing that 95% of our business comes from MD refferals (many from orthopods). As far as your "unlimited medicine and surgery", I don't recall ObGyns being able to do foot surgery 🙂 There isn't a doctor out there that doesn't have a limited scope of practice. So don't give me this "crap" about ObGyn's being able to take care of the whole body!
Don't get me wrong, I do agree with you. We have no business treating anything outside of the foot and ankle (well, soft tissue up to the thigh, ie skin grafts etc) Four years of school and 3 years of surgical residency (averaging over a thousand foot and ankle procedures) make us the foot and ankle experts. That is our business. However, YOU have NO BUSINESS treating anything outside of ObGyn. But that would make sense as medicine is a profession of specialties. Don't you agree?

 

[pruritis_ani]

Did that make you feel better? Explosive diarrhea of the mouth usually makes all the pain go away. 😱

No, in fact, I don't feel better. It truly concerns me to see this lack of clear thought from future "colleagues".

It should also concern you. It appears that the views you have of yourselves are clearly at odds with what the rest of the world thinks of you. (There are certainly a few exceptions on this thread, I have read some pretty rational thinking from a minority of those pods posting on here, so sorry for the generalization. But, your peers actions will also affect other's perceptions of you) Also, it is pretty clear that your bread and butter (ie referral sources) a) disagree with your claims and b) may be quite turned off by this outlandish behavior.

Let's see how you behave in the real world when you are grovelling for enough business to pay your loans back from MD's who are familiar with this sort of garbage being posted, and hesitant to send a patient to somebody who thinks he is more qualified than he really is.

 

[JustMyLuck]

What a bunch of idiots. I can tell you that in my practice I will be very, very hesitant to refer any patients to a DPM. You guys appear to be a bunch of tools that wish you went to medical school!

FYI...attending 2 years with MD/DO students does not make your school medical school! You do NOT take every class with them in the first 2 years, and you certainly do not take very many classes with them in the last 2 years.

Because your title or school has the word medicine or medical in it does not make you a physician. Using this logic vets and chiros are physicians.

Also, take a look at the real world. In any community where there is any orthopod in practice that will work on the foot and ankle, he/she will get all of that business! I am starting to see why...you guys appear to be a bunch of MD wannabes that cannot deal with the limited scope of your degree and practice. And please don't give me that BS about "we can take care of the whole body, we learn about the whole body". Please. Until you do a MD/DO internship and residency you have NO BUSINESS treating anything outside of the foot and ankle. All MD's are trained and licesensed to practice unlimited medicine and surgery. Period.

Man, I can see why I have never seen a referal to a DPM for anything outside of a bunion or a diabetic. I swear I will send my patients 100 miles to an orthopod to avoid the DPM delusions of grandeur.

You are WRONG. The majority of podiatrists are NOT MD wannabes and are perfectly content with their limited scope of practice. And I am in no way worried about losing business to orthopods. Yes many orthopods are competent in foot and ankle surgery and work on every other part of the body as well. But there is clearly a need and a niche for podiatrists otherwise the profession would not exist.

 

[krabmas]

deleted

 

[krabmas]

No, in fact, I don't feel better. It truly concerns me to see this lack of clear thought from future "colleagues".

It should also concern you. It appears that the views you have of yourselves are clearly at odds with what the rest of the world thinks of you. (There are certainly a few exceptions on this thread, I have read some pretty rational thinking from a minority of those pods posting on here, so sorry for the generalization. But, your peers actions will also affect other's perceptions of you) Also, it is pretty clear that your bread and butter (ie referral sources) a) disagree with your claims and b) may be quite turned off by this outlandish behavior.

Let's see how you behave in the real world when you are grovelling for enough business to pay your loans back from MD's who are familiar with this sort of garbage being posted, and hesitant to send a patient to somebody who thinks he is more qualified than he really is.

I did not realize the SDN was the rest of the world 😕

I would argue that most of the practicing medical profesionals are not on SDN (notice I did not use physician so as not to confuse anyone).

And... I hope one day you have a patient whose foot turns gangrenous and has to have a limb amputated because you did not refer in time because you were afraid of the pods. Did you know that it is mal practice to not refer when necessary? If in your area you have general orthopedists and podiatrists I'd think the correct referal would be to a pod for a foot condition not the ortho. But again I might not be qualified to make that decision since I did not do a year of IM or OBGYN 😀

 

[billclinton]

I am sorry that you feel that way about DPM's. Apparently, the medical community disagrees with you, seeing that 95% of our business comes from MD refferals (many from orthopods).

who else would you get refferals from? yes, because orthopods do not make their money off from trimming the toenails of diabetic feet and removing corns and warts. orthos refer the crap they don't want to deal with. if they can make a pretty penny off it, they will keep it for themselves. this is the turth- it is how the food chain works.

given that the medical community does not see you has physicians (but as doctors of the foot and ankle- a respectable profession, i might add) because you do not go to medical school, as pruritis pointed out, it is probably best not to live your life with this chip on your shoulder.

i really do understand where this confusion comes from. before i entered the medical profession i was not aware of the distinction between physician and doctor. As i have said earlier, it is only from my peers that I have learned the distinction.

with this said, i think jon is the most level-headed of the bunch. i honestly believe that not all pods are like you guys. most that i have dealt with have been very professional... at least to my face.

 

[pruritis_ani]

I am sorry that you feel that way about DPM's. Apparently, the medical community disagrees with you, seeing that 95% of our business comes from MD refferals (many from orthopods). As far as your "unlimited medicine and surgery", I don't recall ObGyns being able to do foot surgery 🙂 There isn't a doctor out there that doesn't have a limited scope of practice. So don't give me this "crap" about ObGyn's being able to take care of the whole body!
Don't get me wrong, I do agree with you. We have no business treating anything outside of the foot and ankle (well, soft tissue up to the thigh, ie skin grafts etc) Four years of school and 3 years of surgical residency (averaging over a thousand foot and ankle procedures) make us the foot and ankle experts. That is our business. However, YOU have NO BUSINESS treating anything outside of ObGyn. But that would make sense as medicine is a profession of specialties. Don't you agree?

I know you live off of referrals. That is why it is so amazing to me that you would be so antagonistic.

As far as licensure...well, the "limits" you speak of are artificial. What I mean is that while an ob/gyn will be primarily practicing within the scope of an ob/gyn, the license to practice medicine holds no such limitations. Granted, the hospitals won't give me privleges to clip aneurysms and the only foot surgery I would do is an ingrown toe or plantar wart, I can legally take care of any medical or surgical problem, should I be willing to take on the liability of doing so. A DPM cannot legally open an office and do dermatology. An ob/gyn (or any licensed MD/DO) can.

My point is not that you will be operating outside of your scope of practice as much as it is that it is unseemly and inaccurate to claim that a) you are physicians and b) you went to medical school. Making these claims leads to the assumption that you are truly unaware of the reality of your degree and its functions and limitations in health care today.

 

[pruritis_ani]

You are WRONG. The majority of podiatrists are NOT MD wannabes and are perfectly content with their limited scope of practice. And I am in no way worried about losing business to orthopods. Yes many orthopods are competent in foot and ankle surgery and work on every other part of the body as well. But there is clearly a need and a niche for podiatrists otherwise the profession would not exist.

I agree that there is a niche. And podiatrists have a role to fill. My point is that the podiatrists themselves appear unaware of the niche they fill, and exagerate the claims of competence and qualifications. If you continue to do so, you may just scare off some of those referrals you count on.

 

[billclinton]

I did not realize the SDN was the rest of the world 😕

I would argue that most of the practicing medical profesionals are not on SDN (notice I did not use physician so as not to confuse anyone).

And... I hope one day you have a patient whose foot turns gangrenous and has to have a limb amputated because you did not refer in time because you were afraid of the pods. Did you know that it is mal practice to not refer when necessary? If in your area you have general orthopedists and podiatrists I'd think the correct referal would be to a pod for a foot condition not the ortho. But again I might not be qualified to make that decision since I did not do a year of IM or OBGYN 😀

i don't think anybody is saying you aren't qualified. the discussion is over semantics. physicians come from medical schools... not from podiatry schools. podiatrists come from podiatry schools. it's that simple. physician is not a general term that encompasses all medical professionals.. it only refers to MD/DOs.

Although I believe there is a niche for pods, I would not say that just because something exists prooves that there is a niche. Anyways, in my neck of the woods, there are a good number of orthopods and they do most surgeries. We might refer to pods to remove ingrown toenail or some other minor stuff, but that's it... unless the patient does not have insurance or specifically asks for a pod over an orthopod (which is rare).... oh, another time we would refer to a pod it is more convenient for the patient to see the pod (schedule-wise).

 

[pruritis_ani]

I did not realize the SDN was the rest of the world 😕

I would argue that most of the practicing medical profesionals are not on SDN (notice I did not use physician so as not to confuse anyone).

And... I hope one day you have a patient whose foot turns gangrenous and has to have a limb amputated because you did not refer in time because you were afraid of the pods. Did you know that it is mal practice to not refer when necessary? If in your area you have general orthopedists and podiatrists I'd think the correct referal would be to a pod for a foot condition not the ortho.

I think that the feelings on SDN could and should be construed to be a bit further reaching than these forums. When you see poll results do they actually interview everybody in the world? Nope. They ask a representative slice. We MD's on SDN are the doctors that you will be counting on for patients when you finish.

My referral for a "foot condition" will depend on the condition. In my area anything more complex than a bunion, ingrown toe or diabetic foot goes to ortho. I am going to practice the same way in practice simply because I KNOW that it is better patient care. Give me an MD residency trained ortho every day over a DPM when it comes to bones and joints. I would do the same for my patients.

 

[jonwill]

who else would you get refferals from? yes, because orthopods do not make their money off from trimming the toenails of diabetic feet and removing corns and warts. orthos refer the crap they don't want to deal with. if they can make a pretty penny off it, they will keep it for themselves. this is the turth- it is how the food chain works.

given that the medical community does not see you has physicians (but as doctors of the foot and ankle- a respectable profession, i might add) because you do not go to medical school, as pruritis pointed out, it is probably best not to live your life with this chip on your shoulder.

i really do understand where this confusion comes from. before i entered the medical profession i was not aware of the distinction between physician and doctor. As i have said earlier, it is only from my peers that I have learned the distinction.

with this said, i think jon is the most level-headed of the bunch. i honestly believe that not all pods are like you guys. most that i have dealt with have been very professional... at least to my face.

I respectfully disagree. Much of our foot and ankle surgery comes from ortho refferals (two cases today). Foot and ankle orthos are few and far between. Most general orthopods do not feel comfortable dealing with the foot and ankle. Board certification for general ortho only requires ten foot/ankle cases and there exists no board certification solely for the foot and ankle. Pods are required to get 350 cases in residency (however most receive between 1000-2000 procedures in three years). Within hospitals, podiatry is usually in the ortho department, handling all of the foot surgery (and many times ankle depending on the program). The last hospital I was at, we took everything below the knee.
I mean no disrespect to orthos because they are highly trained. But compared to GENERAL orthopods, the pods coming out today are much better trained in the foot and ankle. And that would explain why over half of foot and ankle surgery in the USA is now performed by podiatrists. Many podiatrists are employed by ortho groups as the foot and ankle specialist.
If you get a chance, I would encourage you to spend time with a podiatrist. I think you will be shocked at what they are trained to do.

 

[pruritis_ani]

I respectfully disagree. Much of our foot and ankle surgery comes from ortho refferals (two cases today). Foot and ankle orthos are few and far between. Most general orthopods do not feel comfortable dealing with the foot and ankle. Board certification for general ortho only requires ten foot/ankle cases and there exists no board certification solely for the foot and ankle. Pods are required to get 350 cases in residency (however most receive between 1000-2000 procedures in three years). Within hospitals, podiatry is usually in the ortho department, handling all of the foot surgery (and many times ankle depending on the program). The last hospital I was at, we took everything below the knee.
I mean no disrespect to orthos because they are highly trained. But compared to GENERAL orthopods, the pods coming out today are much better trained in the foot and ankle. And that would explain why over half of foot and ankle surgery in the USA is now performed by podiatrists. Many podiatrists are employed by ortho groups as the foot and ankle specialist.
If you get a chance, I would encourage you to spend time with a podiatrist. I think you will be shocked at what they are trained to do.

I think this is highly dependent on the area. In my area it is far different.

However, I do think that I would be willing to refer to a DPM within an ortho group. I would certainly have more confidence in that type of referral.

Also, I freely admit that I don't know much more than what I have learned in the last few days of half hearted internet research. What I have learned is that the claims on here are pretty far from reality (ie "we take the same classes (forget to mention only for 2/4 years), we can treat anything (fail to mention that the legal scope of practice of the DPM is foot and ankle, and yes, I looked at state laws), and we are physicians (certainly debateable, but it appears that not many people outside of DPM's would share this feeling)".

If DPM's want to garner respect and get the referrals for the procedures you are trained to do, than I highly recommend that you get accurate info out there. The trick is that it has to be accurate info, without the ridiculous claims attached. As it is, I am not likely to believe a DPM that says he does more procedures than an ortho simply because I have read the vast amount of BS posted on here, and I see that there is a lot more going on in most DPM's heads than providing accurate info for the best possible patient outcomes. There is too much ego, to much posturing. I see a clear lack of critical thought. Frankly, as I mentioned before, it worries me.

 

[jonwill]

I know you live off of referrals. That is why it is so amazing to me that you would be so antagonistic.

As far as licensure...well, the "limits" you speak of are artificial. What I mean is that while an ob/gyn will be primarily practicing within the scope of an ob/gyn, the license to practice medicine holds no such limitations. Granted, the hospitals won't give me privleges to clip aneurysms and the only foot surgery I would do is an ingrown toe or plantar wart, I can legally take care of any medical or surgical problem, should I be willing to take on the liability of doing so. A DPM cannot legally open an office and do dermatology. An ob/gyn (or any licensed MD/DO) can.

My point is not that you will be operating outside of your scope of practice as much as it is that it is unseemly and inaccurate to claim that a) you are physicians and b) you went to medical school. Making these claims leads to the assumption that you are truly unaware of the reality of your degree and its functions and limitations in health care today.

Actually, we do a lot of lower limb dermatology! Anyway, I guess that's my point. I wouldn't call it "artificial" as much as I would call it "theoretical". While, theoretically, the general MD degree holds no restrictions as to what you can do, your specialty training (residency) will. I would consider that to be a limited scope of practice. But then as you have probably noticed, podiatrists aren't very good with definitions

 

[pruritis_ani]

Actually, we do a lot of lower limb dermatology! Anyway, I guess that's my point. I wouldn't call it "artificial" as much as I would call it "theoretical". While, theoretically, the general MD degree holds no restrictions as to what you can do, your specialty training (residency) will. I would consider that to be a limited scope of practice. But then as you have probably noticed, podiatrists aren't very good with definitions

My point is only that by law MD's are not limited to a particular specialty or body region. We get the whole thing. DPM's are specifically limited to the foot and ankle, by law.

In reality, scope of practice is very, very different. But, I am mainly responding to the ridiculous claims of others early in this post. They claimed that they could do anything an MD could do in a hospital, they just choose not to go outside of what they were trained. The fact is, DPM's cannot, or they are practicing medicine without a license. Go directly to jail, do not pass go.

As an example...if an MD operates on a bunion and he is a pathologist by training, he may well be up for some malpractice. But, he can legally do it. On the other hand, if a DPM tries to manage an MI or to place a central line, he could be charged with practicing medicine without a license and assault with a deadly weapon. Big difference.

I should say that I appreciate your reasoned and thoughtful posts. And I have no ill will toward podiatry as a field. It is very unfortunate that those that post on here are clouding my perception, and I am sure that of others. I can only hope that they are not representative of the profession as a whole, and they are merely underinformed and over excited podiatry students.

 

[jonwill]

I think this is highly dependent on the area. In my area it is far different.

However, I do think that I would be willing to refer to a DPM within an ortho group. I would certainly have more confidence in that type of referral.

Also, I freely admit that I don't know much more than what I have learned in the last few days of half hearted internet research. What I have learned is that the claims on here are pretty far from reality (ie "we take the same classes (forget to mention only for 2/4 years), we can treat anything (fail to mention that the legal scope of practice of the DPM is foot and ankle, and yes, I looked at state laws), and we are physicians (certainly debateable, but it appears that not many people outside of DPM's would share this feeling)".

If DPM's want to garner respect and get the referrals for the procedures you are trained to do, than I highly recommend that you get accurate info out there. The trick is that it has to be accurate info, without the ridiculous claims attached. As it is, I am not likely to believe a DPM that says he does more procedures than an ortho simply because I have read the vast amount of BS posted on here, and I see that there is a lot more going on in most DPM's heads than providing accurate info for the best possible patient outcomes. There is too much ego, to much posturing. I see a clear lack of critical thought. Frankly, as I mentioned before, it worries me.

I completely agree with you. I'm not trying to downplay the problems within my profession. You've seen the stats. The bottom line is that, over the past 30 years, podiatry has drastically changed. There are some pods out there that went to three years of podiatry school, did NO residency,and do very simple foot care. No offense to them, but that was the profession 30 years ago. That's completely honorable. Today, podiatry programs are accepting some students that, in my opinion, should not be allowed in. Fortunately, curriculum and board exams will get rid of a lot of them (attrition in podiatry programs is pretty high). On the other hand, many pod students are extremely competent and will do very well. After seven years of training, they are coming out with complex medical and surgical training.
I think that you briefly touched on the key principle. As with any healthcare professional, don't judge someone by their degree, but rather their training.

 

[jonwill]

My point is only that by law MD's are not limited to a particular specialty or body region. We get the whole thing. DPM's are specifically limited to the foot and ankle, by law.

In reality, scope of practice is very, very different. But, I am mainly responding to the ridiculous claims of others early in this post. They claimed that they could do anything an MD could do in a hospital, they just choose not to go outside of what they were trained. The fact is, DPM's cannot, or they are practicing medicine without a license. Go directly to jail, do not pass go.

As an example...if an MD operates on a bunion and he is a pathologist by training, he may well be up for some malpractice. But, he can legally do it. On the other hand, if a DPM tries to manage an MI or to place a central line, he could be charged with practicing medicine without a license and assault with a deadly weapon. Big difference.

I should say that I appreciate your reasoned and thoughtful posts. And I have no ill will toward podiatry as a field. It is very unfortunate that those that post on here are clouding my perception, and I am sure that of others. I can only hope that they are not representative of the profession as a whole, and they are merely underinformed and over excited podiatry students.

👍

 

[krabmas]

I think that the feelings on SDN could and should be construed to be a bit further reaching than these forums. When you see poll results do they actually interview everybody in the world? Nope. They ask a representative slice. We MD's on SDN are the doctors that you will be counting on for patients when you finish.

My referral for a "foot condition" will depend on the condition. In my area anything more complex than a bunion, ingrown toe or diabetic foot goes to ortho. I am going to practice the same way in practice simply because I KNOW that it is better patient care. Give me an MD residency trained ortho every day over a DPM when it comes to bones and joints. I would do the same for my patients.

I hope your patients sue you. over and over and over

 

[pruritis_ani]

I hope your patients sue you. over and over and over

Don't worry, going into Ob I am prepared for that 😉

However, if you cared to read carefully (something I truly hope you learn to do), you will notice that I said this would expose an MD to malpractice. The point was merely to show beyond a doubt how wrong the earlier posters were when they claimed that they could do anything an MD can do in the hospital, and that they are limited exactly as MD's are. That is patently untrue.

 

[IlizaRob]

Don't worry, going into Ob I am prepared for that 😉

However, if you cared to read carefully (something I truly hope you learn to do), you will notice that I said this would expose an MD to malpractice. The point was merely to show beyond a doubt how wrong the earlier posters were when they claimed that they could do anything an MD can do in the hospital, and that they are limited exactly as MD's are. That is patently untrue.

Puritis, give it a rest. Nobody has posted any new ideas in the last 200 posts. Frankly, its getting boring. Im surprised that you spend so much energy trying to convince 3 or 4 pod students of your opinions. Lets face it, you're not going to change the world here.

 

[krabmas]

Don't worry, going into Ob I am prepared for that 😉

However, if you cared to read carefully (something I truly hope you learn to do), you will notice that I said this would expose an MD to malpractice. The point was merely to show beyond a doubt how wrong the earlier posters were when they claimed that they could do anything an MD can do in the hospital, and that they are limited exactly as MD's are. That is patently untrue.

Just to be theoretical, picky and use semantics... It depends on how you define DPM or when in our training you are talking about for what we are allowed to do when...

For the 3 years we are in residency we are treated the same as MDs as in the scope is the same it just depends on the scope of the attending.

If you read my earlier posts you'll see that I do not argue to be called a physician, quite frankly I do not care what you call me. I think IM sucks a big one and I am glad I did not go to MD or DO school.

My whole point is that just because you disagree that we should not be called physicians does not mean you shuld discredit our entire degree or profesion especially when you admit that you know next to nothing about it.

I know this is the coolest thread on SDN but don't post here just because you want to be a part of it.

 

[pruritis_ani]

Well, I can see that my posts have not done anything to help. Sorry I wasted my time. What I am more sorry about is the state of mind of you future DPM's. It is sad. Not only are you unable to accept the facts about differences in training and legal scope of practice, you are unable to come to grips with the fact that you will be dependent upon the very MD's that you piss off for referrals. Let's hope you put on your game face when you get out from behind this anon board. I, for one, will very carefully consider any referal to a "physician" such I have have seen on the pod board. For every pod that demonstrates an ability to think critically there appear to be at least 10 that are pretty much *****s. I think those are pretty bad odds.

 

[capo]

What a bunch of idiots. I can tell you that in my practice I will be very, very hesitant to refer any patients to a DPM. You guys appear to be a bunch of tools that wish you went to medical school!

FYI...attending 2 years with MD/DO students does not make your school medical school! You do NOT take every class with them in the first 2 years, and you certainly do not take very many classes with them in the last 2 years.

Because your title or school has the word medicine or medical in it does not make you a physician. Using this logic vets and chiros are physicians.

Also, take a look at the real world. In any community where there is any orthopod in practice that will work on the foot and ankle, he/she will get all of that business! I am starting to see why...you guys appear to be a bunch of MD wannabes that cannot deal with the limited scope of your degree and practice. And please don't give me that BS about "we can take care of the whole body, we learn about the whole body". Please. Until you do a MD/DO internship and residency you have NO BUSINESS treating anything outside of the foot and ankle. All MD's are trained and licesensed to practice unlimited medicine and surgery. Period.

Man, I can see why I have never seen a referal to a DPM for anything outside of a bunion or a diabetic. I swear I will send my patients 100 miles to an orthopod to avoid the DPM delusions of grandeur.

Woah, no offense but have you lost your mind? Hesitant to refer to DPM's? Where do you think family docs refer to? Santa Claus? There are less and less ortho's doing foot and ankle, in case you don't know sir. So this will only open up the referral base, as baby boomers start visitng their family docs and get referred to pods.

Where do you live that you're so way off with this info you spout? MD"s by the way, can only practice within the specialty trained for. You think a psychiatrist can do neurosurgery also -- on his lunch hour? Man, your lost in space as to how meds works nowadays aren't you? If you get any patients, by somehow lying on your application that you graduated from a US med school, then good luck treating them with this attitude. If I was your patient, I'd chop off my foot instead of going to you. Oh and I'd sue you for negligence since you didn't treat my mental illness for doing that, since even though you're not a shrink you ARE a doc and thus -- can handle ANY type of patient now can't you o great one?. Haha.

You're completely out of your mind, kind sir.

 

[pruritis_ani]

Capo, read my posts....I never for one minute intimated that MD's trained in one field practice in another. I clearly stated that LEGALLY we can. We don't. However, as one of your esteemed coleagues in podiatry was claiming that DPM's and MD/DO's had the same licensing privileges, I was impelled to point out how truly wrong he was. Additionally, this is pretty clear evidence that the training in these fields is truly NOT equal, as your fellow foot students would have others believe. If they were equivilent, you would get a medical license. You do not. You get a podiatry license.

What is funny is that you are the third podiatry student that has failed to grasp this message, which I made very, very clear. Again, doctors DO NOT practice outside of the specialty we pursue. But, legally we can. DPM's cannot legally go beyond the foot and ankle. Understand it yet? I hope so...otherwise it is pretty clear just how low DPM admission standards must have gone.

FYI...referalls. I have worked in primary care for 10 years before med school. In FP, for the most part. We NEVER sent a complex bone or joint problem to a DPM. Only to ortho. DPM's got the warts, bunions and diabetic foot care. Oh yeah, they got the fungi and the nail trims too. That is it.

Another key concept to getting referals...the three A's. Availability, ATTITUDE and Ability. In that order. It appears to me that A #2 is going to block a lot of referrals to you guys before you even get a chance to prove your ability. There are a lot of very capable docs in all specialties that cannot fill the book due to an inability to get along with the refering doctors. Don't be one of them.

 

[ProdPod]

What a bunch of idiots. I can tell you that in my practice I will be very, very hesitant to refer any patients to a DPM. You guys appear to be a bunch of tools that wish you went to medical school!

FYI...attending 2 years with MD/DO students does not make your school medical school! You do NOT take every class with them in the first 2 years, and you certainly do not take very many classes with them in the last 2 years.

Because your title or school has the word medicine or medical in it does not make you a physician. Using this logic vets and chiros are physicians.

Also, take a look at the real world. In any community where there is any orthopod in practice that will work on the foot and ankle, he/she will get all of that business! I am starting to see why...you guys appear to be a bunch of MD wannabes that cannot deal with the limited scope of your degree and practice. And please don't give me that BS about "we can take care of the whole body, we learn about the whole body". Please. Until you do a MD/DO internship and residency you have NO BUSINESS treating anything outside of the foot and ankle. All MD's are trained and licesensed to practice unlimited medicine and surgery. Period.

Man, I can see why I have never seen a referal to a DPM for anything outside of a bunion or a diabetic. I swear I will send my patients 100 miles to an orthopod to avoid the DPM delusions of grandeur.

First off, for you to tell us that you would prejudicially send a patient to an MD far away over an podiatrist just because of degree tells us all that you are nothing more than a ***** who does not look out primarily for the benefit of the patient and is hung-up on degree titles! If you want to send your patient to an orthopod that might be less trained in the foot & ankle than a podiatrist, go ahead, but truth be told I would never send someone to you because your an idiot! Insurance companies screw MDs & DOs the same way that pods get screwed. So if you believe your little MD badge will garner anymore respect in reimbursments, think again. It is because of doctors like yourself, insurance companies have been able to divide and conquer medicine. If you are a medical student, shut up and get the basic sciences down, learn how the business aspects of medicine work & maybe your disillusional self will realize there is work for everyone and people should work together! As far as the term physician, we are physicians of the lower extremity and have not claimed to be experts in general medicine. We understand general medicine through clinical exposure, like it or not. The real question is your obvious animosity and sense of being threatened by our knowledge....so much so that you would send your patients far away to see an MD who probably thinks your an idiot just like we all do!