Think about this

[ProdPod]

What a bunch of idiots. I can tell you that in my practice I will be very, very hesitant to refer any patients to a DPM. You guys appear to be a bunch of tools that wish you went to medical school!

FYI...attending 2 years with MD/DO students does not make your school medical school! You do NOT take every class with them in the first 2 years, and you certainly do not take very many classes with them in the last 2 years.

Because your title or school has the word medicine or medical in it does not make you a physician. Using this logic vets and chiros are physicians.

Also, take a look at the real world. In any community where there is any orthopod in practice that will work on the foot and ankle, he/she will get all of that business! I am starting to see why...you guys appear to be a bunch of MD wannabes that cannot deal with the limited scope of your degree and practice. And please don't give me that BS about "we can take care of the whole body, we learn about the whole body". Please. Until you do a MD/DO internship and residency you have NO BUSINESS treating anything outside of the foot and ankle. All MD's are trained and licesensed to practice unlimited medicine and surgery. Period.

Man, I can see why I have never seen a referal to a DPM for anything outside of a bunion or a diabetic. I swear I will send my patients 100 miles to an orthopod to avoid the DPM delusions of grandeur.

First off, for you to tell us that you would prejudicially send a patient to an MD far away over an podiatrist just because of degree tells us all that you are nothing more than a ***** who does not look out primarily for the benefit of the patient and is hung-up on degree titles! If you want to send your patient to an orthopod that might be less trained in the foot & ankle than a podiatrist, go ahead, but truth be told I would never send someone to you because your an idiot! Insurance companies screw MDs & DOs the same way that pods get screwed. So if you believe your little MD badge will garner anymore respect in reimbursments, think again. It is because of doctors like yourself, insurance companies have been able to divide and conquer medicine. If you are a medical student, shut up and get the basic sciences down, learn how the business aspects of medicine work & maybe your disillusional self will realize there is work for everyone and people should work together! As far as the term physician, we are physicians of the lower extremity and have not claimed to be experts in general medicine. We understand general medicine through clinical exposure, like it or not. The real question is your obvious animosity and sense of being threatened by our knowledge....so much so that you would send your patients far away to see an MD who probably thinks your an idiot just like we all do!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[pruritis_ani]

No, I would send an a patient to an MD over a DPM for several reasons. First of all, I am far more comfortable with the ability of an MD to treat complex problems. As an orthopedist, he will have completed medical school and a 5 year ortho residency. In every way I feel he will be better trained in the care of bones and joints. And, while you may call it being "hung up on titles", I would venture to argue that the title is representative of qualifications. Wouldn't you?

Additionally, it has been clearly demonstrated to me on these fora that future DPM's are unclear about the quality, depth and breadth of their training, as well as the scope of practice a DPM can legally provide.

It is not an argument about respect. It is a discussion about being honest with oneself and others about qualifications and credentials.

It blows my mind. One, only one, of the pod students has had an appropriate response to these threads. An appropriate response would be to agree that some folks on here are clueless and misleading, and to take the opportunity to inform me better on what specifically podiatrists are trained in, and how a DPM could care for my patients. Instead, I get more of the "we are equal" BS and the blatant misinterpetation of points I have clarified over and over and over again.

Threatened by your knowledge? Please. That may be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I have yet to see most of you demonstrate ANY knowledge. You simply make ridiculous claims over and over, and follow that by calling me names. Wow. How intellectually intimidating.

Never have I claimed to be better than any DPM. However, the future DPM's on this board are certainly of very low intellectual caliber, and I worry a lot about trusting even a toenail to some of you.

 

[ProdPod]

My point is only that by law MD's are not limited to a particular specialty or body region. We get the whole thing. DPM's are specifically limited to the foot and ankle, by law.



In reality, scope of practice is very, very different. But, I am mainly responding to the ridiculous claims of others early in this post. They claimed that they could do anything an MD could do in a hospital, they just choose not to go outside of what they were trained. The fact is, DPM's cannot, or they are practicing medicine without a license. Go directly to jail, do not pass go.


As an example...if an MD operates on a bunion and he is a pathologist by training, he may well be up for some malpractice. But, he can legally do it. On the other hand, if a DPM tries to manage an MI or to place a central line, he could be charged with practicing medicine without a license and assault with a deadly weapon. Big difference.



I should say that I appreciate your reasoned and thoughtful posts. And I have no ill will toward podiatry as a field. It is very unfortunate that those that post on here are clouding my perception, and I am sure that of others. I can only hope that they are not representative of the profession as a whole, and they are merely underinformed and over excited podiatry students.

1)MDs get exposure to everything but you are not a pro at everything. You specialize just like podiatrists!


2)Where are these posts that your talking about? Quote them to add legitamacy to your argument.

3)Even an orthopod wouldn't want to have the responsibilty of placing the central line you refer too!

4)Speak for yourself dude! You sound like you hold the keys to medicine. Truth is you don't. I think you and some of your cohorts on this forum have clouded the general public's perception of the MDs & DOs through your dumb posts. That is part of the reason patient's trust & respect toward physicians as a whole, has diminished! Good job!

 

[ProdPod]

What a bunch of idiots.

Exactly! How intellectually intimidating? Your a *****

 

[ProdPod]

No, I would send an a patient to an MD over a DPM for several reasons. First of all, I am far more comfortable with the ability of an MD to treat complex problems.

I hope this site does not take you out of that comfort zone your in!
http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/news/ci_3556819

 

[capo]

No, I would send an a patient to an MD over a DPM for several reasons. First of all, I am far more comfortable with the ability of an MD to treat complex problems. As an orthopedist, he will have completed medical school and a 5 year ortho residency. In every way I feel he will be better trained in the care of bones and joints. And, while you may call it being "hung up on titles", I would venture to argue that the title is representative of qualifications. Wouldn't you?

Additionally, it has been clearly demonstrated to me on these fora that future DPM's are unclear about the quality, depth and breadth of their training, as well as the scope of practice a DPM can legally provide.

It is not an argument about respect. It is a discussion about being honest with oneself and others about qualifications and credentials.

It blows my mind. One, only one, of the pod students has had an appropriate response to these threads. An appropriate response would be to agree that some folks on here are clueless and misleading, and to take the opportunity to inform me better on what specifically podiatrists are trained in, and how a DPM could care for my patients. Instead, I get more of the "we are equal" BS and the blatant misinterpetation of points I have clarified over and over and over again.

Threatened by your knowledge? Please. That may be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I have yet to see most of you demonstrate ANY knowledge. You simply make ridiculous claims over and over, and follow that by calling me names. Wow. How intellectually intimidating.

Never have I claimed to be better than any DPM. However, the future DPM's on this board are certainly of very low intellectual caliber, and I worry a lot about trusting even a toenail to some of you.

Dude seriously, you are old-school and living in the dark ages. What MD doesn't respect a DPM? In reality you make up stuff and say it like it means something. Go study for God's sakes, if you're going to be such a great doc. Quit the act of lording over everyone. It's gotten old, just like your mentality towards meds in general.

 

[capo]

Capo, read my posts....I never for one minute intimated that MD's trained in one field practice in another. I clearly stated that LEGALLY we can. We don't. However, as one of your esteemed coleagues in podiatry was claiming that DPM's and MD/DO's had the same licensing privileges, I was impelled to point out how truly wrong he was. Additionally, this is pretty clear evidence that the training in these fields is truly NOT equal, as your fellow foot students would have others believe. If they were equivilent, you would get a medical license. You do not. You get a podiatry license.

What is funny is that you are the third podiatry student that has failed to grasp this message, which I made very, very clear. Again, doctors DO NOT practice outside of the specialty we pursue. But, legally we can. DPM's cannot legally go beyond the foot and ankle. Understand it yet? I hope so...otherwise it is pretty clear just how low DPM admission standards must have gone.

FYI...referalls. I have worked in primary care for 10 years before med school. In FP, for the most part. We NEVER sent a complex bone or joint problem to a DPM. Only to ortho. DPM's got the warts, bunions and diabetic foot care. Oh yeah, they got the fungi and the nail trims too. That is it.

Another key concept to getting referals...the three A's. Availability, ATTITUDE and Ability. In that order. It appears to me that A #2 is going to block a lot of referrals to you guys before you even get a chance to prove your ability. There are a lot of very capable docs in all specialties that cannot fill the book due to an inability to get along with the refering doctors. Don't be one of them.

You have the attitude down to a science, calling people names. Why don't you go back to high school and pull some pigtails at a locker? You need to growup before you get near patients. If I was on the adcomm admitting/interviewing a guy like you, I'd walk out of the interview and tell you your not cut out for healthcare -- period. Let's leave it at that. You don't talk to people, you talk AT THEM!

 

[pruritis_ani]

1)MDs get exposure to everything but you are not a pro at everything. You specialize just like podiatrists!

Two key differences, as I have pointed out before. Hopefully this time you will get it. 1) We get exposure to EVERYTHING and then NARROW our field. Pods start narrow and stay narrow. 2) We do specialize, but are still legally able to practice medicine and surgery, period. Not limited by law! DPM's are. Get it yet???

2)Where are these posts that your talking about? Quote them to add legitamacy to your argument.

No problem...here we go!

Second, we can treat any illness whether it is in the foot, ankle, kidney, heart. We can only do surgery in the foot and ankle, but a brain surgeon cannot do surgery outside of the brain.

What this guy above is claiming is false. The DPM cannot legally treat kidney and heart. The neurosurgeon can legally operate outside of the brain...

Ready for more?

Do some research on Podiatrists...you are very ignorant. A podiatrist is a physician...they have the EXACT same training, plus additional time spent on foot and ankle so as to specialize in podiatry. ..

The DPM curriculum is very, very differnt from MD. You may have several of the same classes during the first two years, but medical school is 4 years. An MD training is much more comprehensive, as it covers ALL medical specialties.

Podiatrist take the EXACT same classes that cardiologists do up until their residency - do some research if you dont know that.

another absolutely idiotic statement. Last I checked a cardiologist has to graduate medical school, which is very different than podiatry school. Besides, a cardiologist is not a cardiologist until they finish residency. Residency plus fellowship define a cardiologist. So, there is no such thing as a cardiologist before his residency. Just plain stupidity here.

All of the above quotes are from the first three pages of this thread. If you want more, let me know, I will be happy to post more foolishness for you

3)Even an orthopod wouldn't want to have the responsibilty of placing the central line you refer too!

We are not talking about "wanting responsibility". We are talking about legal ability, and a key difference between DPM and MD.

4)Speak for yourself dude! You sound like you hold the keys to medicine. Truth is you don't. I think you and some of your cohorts on this forum have clouded the general public's perception of the MDs & DOs through your dumb posts. That is part of the reason patient's trust & respect toward physicians as a whole, has diminished! Good job!

No, actually this has nothing to do with the clouding of public perception of MD's. It has to do with the clouded perception DPM's have of themselves.

 

[billclinton]

Exactly! How intellectually intimidating? Your a *****

at least insult with correct grammar! haha

 

[pruritis_ani]

Actually, ProdPod, I stand by my ***** statements. It is pretty clear that most of you on here have trouble reading and comprehending pretty basic concepts. As I have stated over and over, I honestly would be concerned about sending patients to DPM's if this board is a representative sample of intellect. With few exceptions it appears that you guys are having difficulty following a clear argument, and are having incredible difficulty with logic and debate.

 

[billclinton]

As far as the term physician, we are physicians of the lower extremity and have not claimed to be experts in general medicine. We understand general medicine through clinical exposure, like it or not.

what you fail to grasp is that the title of physician implies an underlying training in general medicine at a MD or DO medical school. if you wanted to be a physician, you should have went to medical school. perhaps, it is a hidden requirement of medical school to be able to comprehend the meaning of physician? maybe this is what held you back?

so far the only person i can respect is jonwill. sorry guys.

 

[billclinton]

You have the attitude down to a science, calling people names. Why don't you go back to high school and pull some pigtails at a locker? You need to growup before you get near patients. If I was on the adcomm admitting/interviewing a guy like you, I'd walk out of the interview and tell you your not cut out for healthcare -- period. Let's leave it at that. You don't talk to people, you talk AT THEM!

but you would never be an adcom. i have yet to see an intelligent post from you. just more meaningless banter... no facts... all talk, no walk.

 

[ProdPod]

Actually, ProdPod, I stand by my ***** statements. It is pretty clear that most of you on here have trouble reading and comprehending pretty basic concepts. As I have stated over and over, I honestly would be concerned about sending patients to DPM's if this board is a representative sample of intellect. With few exceptions it appears that you guys are having difficulty following a clear argument, and are having incredible difficulty with logic and debate.

You are definetly a cluster B type personality disorderd guy and I should have been a little more "fair" in my critique of you. Sorry!

 

[billclinton]

Two key differences, as I have pointed out before. Hopefully this time you will get it. 1) We get exposure to EVERYTHING and then NARROW our field. Pods start narrow and stay narrow. 2) We do specialize, but are still legally able to practice medicine and surgery, period. Not limited by law! DPM's are. Get it yet???


No problem...here we go!



What this guy above is claiming is false. The DPM cannot legally treat kidney and heart. The neurosurgeon can legally operate outside of the brain...

Ready for more?



The DPM curriculum is very, very differnt from MD. You may have several of the same classes during the first two years, but medical school is 4 years. An MD training is much more comprehensive, as it covers ALL medical specialties.



another absolutely idiotic statement. Last I checked a cardiologist has to graduate medical school, which is very different than podiatry school. Besides, a cardiologist is not a cardiologist until they finish residency. Residency plus fellowship define a cardiologist. So, there is no such thing as a cardiologist before his residency. Just plain stupidity here.

All of the above quotes are from the first three pages of this thread. If you want more, let me know, I will be happy to post more foolishness for you





We are not talking about "wanting responsibility". We are talking about legal ability, and a key difference between DPM and MD.



No, actually this has nothing to do with the clouding of public perception of MD's. It has to do with the clouded perception DPM's have of themselves.

i am reading these posts for a second time and i still can't see how anyone could think these things. i am truly hoping these are really pre-pods who were most likely recently reject from med school and now just looking at podiatry as a backup. i don't see how anybody could be in podiatry school and actually think this stuff.

i recommend actually shadowing a pod so you know about what they do everyday. you guys are going to be greatly disappointed.

 

[billclinton]

You are definetly a cluster B type personality disorderd guy and I should have been a little more "fair" in my critique of you. Sorry!

"duhhh... i cun't tink of anyting entelligence to say so i tink i'll gunna calla youa bad name... dat will reelly prove my poynt"

 

[ProdPod]

what you fail to grasp is that the title of physician implies an underlying training in general medicine at a MD or DO medical school. if you wanted to be a physician, you should have went to medical school. perhaps, it is a hidden requirement of medical school to be able to comprehend the meaning of physician? maybe this is what held you back?

so far the only person i can respect is jonwill. sorry guys.

Since it seems to anger you I am soooooooo glad I am a

PHYSICIAN!

I'm glad you found someone to respect because I don't think anyone here respects you besides your butt buddy!

Truth is, you will be here day after day posting horse-crap. As for being held back, I don't understand? I am doing foot & ankle surgeries without your approval. I am sure I made you mad!

 

[ProdPod]

"duhhh... i cun't tink of anyting entelligence to say so i tink i'll gunna calla youa bad name... dat will reelly prove my poynt"

PHYSICIAN

 

[ProdPod]

i am reading these posts for a second time and i still can't see how anyone could think these things. i am truly hoping these are really pre-pods who were most likely recently reject from med school and now just looking at podiatry as a backup. i don't see how anybody could be in podiatry school and actually think this stuff.

i recommend actually shadowing a pod so you know about what they do everyday. you guys are going to be greatly disappointed.

PHYSICIAN

 

[billclinton]

Since it seems to anger you I am soooooooo glad I am a

PHYSICIAN!

I'm glad you found someone to respect because I don't think anyone here respects you besides your butt buddy!

Truth is, you will be here day after day posting horse-crap. As for being held back, I don't understand? I am doing foot & ankle surgeries without your approval. I am sure I made you mad!

i highly doubt you are a podiatrist. if so, i have lost even more respect for the field. perhaps you have not read this thread? http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=264744&page=4

if you check virtually any dictionary (Webster wikipedia) you will see that podiatrist are not physicians. from your previous posts i see that you live your life with a chip on your shoulder. how sad. you know, i know a couple pods that went back to med school. you know, it's not too late for you....

 

[billclinton]

PHYSICIAN

wow.. you can spell. very good. now let's try working on understanding definitions.

 

[billclinton]

PHYSICIAN

if you are so sure of this, how about you go take a poll in any forum but the pod forum. see what the results are after a couple days. you will see that not only does literature consider you a physician, but the public doesn't either. good night! see you tomorrow... same bat-channel, same bat-time.

 

[ProdPod]

i highly doubt you are a podiatrist. if so, i have lost even more respect for the field. perhaps you have not read this thread? http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=264744&page=4

if you check virtually any dictionary (Webster wikipedia) you will see that podiatrist are not physicians. from your previous posts i see that you live your life with a chip on your shoulder. how sad. you know, i know a couple pods that went back to med school. you know, it's not too late for you....

Really! I always wanted to help patients with foot problems. I might get an MD so I can fit your wikipedia definition!

 

[ProdPod]

if you are so sure of this, how about you go take a poll in any forum but the pod forum. see what the results are after a couple days. you will see that not only does literature consider you a physician, but the public doesn't either. good night! see you tomorrow... same bat-channel, same bat-time.

Sorry Doogie Hauser! I can only play psychiatrist to ****** students like yourself on certain occassions. I have something even more important than you! A life.

Your Friend,

Physician!

 

[ProdPod]

Actually, ProdPod, I stand by my ***** statements. It is pretty clear that most of you on here have trouble reading and comprehending pretty basic concepts. As I have stated over and over, I honestly would be concerned about sending patients to DPM's if this board is a representative sample of intellect. With few exceptions it appears that you guys are having difficulty following a clear argument, and are having incredible difficulty with logic and debate.

We really don't want to offend the offender, do we?

 

[doclm]

i am reading these posts for a second time and i still can't see how anyone could think these things. i am truly hoping these are really pre-pods who were most likely recently reject from med school and now just looking at podiatry as a backup. i don't see how anybody could be in podiatry school and actually think this stuff.

i recommend actually shadowing a pod so you know about what they do everyday. you guys are going to be greatly disappointed.

You are correct about DPM's not being able to practice outside their scope. We will become foot/ankle doctors or Podiatric Physicians. We are not full physicians, nor do we want to go through the long 4yrs to learn everything about medicine and then go many more years to specialize in something specific. In todays world where their is a salivating laywer around every little medical "mistake" I don't think DPM's or MD/DO's with a specific residency want to practice outside their scope. Compared to some MD/DO's, we have a limited scope of practice, but that does not mean that we can't see a good variety of foot/ankle problems.

I believe that you must see some unhappy Podiatrists that have been educated back in the days where any good residencies were hard to come by, and Orthopods would put the lock down on any surgical problem Podiatrists ever encountered. But, obviously you have not talked with a recent DPM grad that has had a 3yr surgical residency. Currently, the field is moving toward more of a surgical subspecialty with all the different residencies of the past moving to either a 2 or 3 year surgical residency period. When all of us get done with our extensive medical and podiatric training we will have much more options of practice than the field did in the past. It is very sad what happened to many of those inspired DPM's in the past who wanted to be a foot/ankle specialist, they went through a rough time that is now on the road for future success. Soon every state will have a standardized scope of practice and it will be much more clear on what a POD can and cannot bill a patient for. Hey with all of the people in this world who let their health go to $h!t by eating greasy calorie filled fast food and getting diabetes at an alarming young age, us future Podiatric Physicians will have no problem finding a diabetic foot to cure. I also would like to mention that there is some great research coming out that suggests that Podiatrists can significantly reduce further degrading of a diabetic foot vs. the treatment from the general MD. More and more and more patients will be referred to Podiatrists in the future just from the sake of evidence based (research) medicine.

 

[capo]

but you would never be an adcom. i have yet to see an intelligent post from you. just more meaningless banter... no facts... all talk, no walk.

bill, exactly WHAT do you contirbute to this forum? All you do is stir the pot. Anyone inlcuding a housewife can do that.

Pods do alot more than just treat corns as you pigeon-hole them into doing. You also look down upon them, as obviously beneath your dignity, despite your ramblings to the contrary. Why would I never be an adcom? Anyone who grads from a med school, could serve as faculty if they wanted to and worked hard enough.

What remains to be the point of most of your mindless chatter? What school do you attend, or is this too hard a question for you to comprehend? Additionally, I'm not here to please you. So your facts are really more like slanted opinions. What facts do you present?

 

[DD214_DOC]

Whoever posted it earlier is right. Pods are not medical students any more than dental or optometry students are medical students. I don't see what the fuss is about. If you wanted to be recognized as medical students, you should not have gone to podiatry school.

Now before you begin to call me a Podcist, know that I once considered podiatry, but decided against it because I did not want to be limited to only the feet. Have some pride in your own profession and stop trying to ride on another's.

 

[hug793]

Have you guys noticed whiskers hasn't posted in a while? Perhaps whiskers clever comments are now being posted by "billclinton." Don't take what he says so seriously.
I think you all know when you started in podiatry your limitations. I think the majority of of 'actual practicing' practiconers don't think of podiatrist as inferior, rather we are grateful that there is someone who will deal with the problems of the foot and ankle.

 

[IlizaRob]

Wow, does anyone ever sleep around here? I wish I had that kind of stamina. Ok, I have decided that whoever continues with this discussion is no better than your own insults to the other posters. If any self-respected professional were to read the posts of either side, I dont think he would use the word "intelligent" to descibe anyone here. The opinions have been very clear from each person, so there is no need to further this argument.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Ani,
On the subject of scope of practice, I am sure you are referring to my comments on the residency forum. I am not advocating pods manage systemic diseases for fun, but I am stating that to say we do not treat them is a lie. I talked about shower emboli and blue toe syndrome as an example. As I posted before, the podiatrist must start treating the patient when though the problem lies in the heart not the foot. He/she cannot wait until they see a cardiologist as a referral. Let's say a podiatrist said this is out of my scope of practice and the patient has a CVA, who is liable. Pods can and do give heparin and warfarin. The manifestation of a systemic disease in the lower limb as a 1st sign is very common. I would always refer my patients to a more qualified specialist but the management of the disease is a team effort. Another example, do you think when a pod sees a diabetic they don't check HgA1c? They make sure along with the patients family doctor that the patient is taking care of a systemic disease. We are not running a Jiffy Lube, come in well trim your nails, rotate your tires and send you on your way. As you have state most of our business is a referral b/c this is a health care system, not health care person. Your belief that podiatrist are not physicians (podiatric physicians) is why you claim you would never refer your patients to a pod. I think that further research will help you see that pods are not only qualified to help you in your lower limb cases, you might even get a few phone calls back about systemic diseases that you missed.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

what you fail to grasp is that the title of physician implies an underlying training in general medicine at a MD or DO medical school.

The actual root of physician is only a doctor of internal medicine, really only in the U.S. do we use this term to to refer to doctors. So in most of the world's eyes ani is not a physician either. I agree with Rob one this, this thread is played out. I don't feel it is productive, this is obiviously a matter of opinion not fact (though some of us claim that our opinions are facts, myself included).

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

i am truly hoping these are really pre-pods who were most likely recently reject from med school and now just looking at podiatry as a backup.

I have respect for ani's opinion, but not yours. I was accepted in the Creighton University but chose to become a podiatrist.

Thanks though.

 

[pruritis_ani]

Actually, DrFeelgood, those quotes I posted from you about treating systemic disease come from the first pages of the post.

As far as scope of practice, the law states that you can treat disease only of the foot and ankle. So, blue toe syndrome? Sure, foot manifestations, give blood thinners. Somebody comes in in a-fib? You are not legally able to do squat. I am sure you check HgA1C. But you are not going to be looking to change insulin doses or prevent nephropathy.

All if this is side banter. I know most docs don't work outside of the specialty we train in. My point was only to show you that you were making some outrageous and untrue claims. When compared to an MD, DPM's have a markedly different legal scope of practice, which reflects the markedly different education.

As far as the "physicians" title goes, my opinion is that DPM's are not. But, I don't really care about that. In fact, that is the only part of this entire charade that is a valid discussion, because there is plenty of room for argument. By some definitions DPM's are included in the title physician. In others there are not. No problem,we see it different ways, I could care less. There is really no right or wrong. That has NOTHING to do with my hesitance to refer to a DPM.

My hesitance stems from a few different points; one, I feel that orthopedists have undergone a more rigorous and thorough training when dealing with bone and joint issues. Two, the future podiatrists on here have indicated an alarming lack of knowlege about the scope of their own profession and the profound difference in education when compared to other health providers. I have concersn that many of you even realize what you are going to be trained and qualified to do. Third, it appears hard for a few of you to follow a reasonable line of logic and respond inteligently. Some of you on here can, but it is also pretty clear that a lot of you either have not read my points, chose to ignore them or do not follow the simple logic of them.

But, there is another reason that I won't refer. And, that is because I am not aware of the qualifications a DPM may have surgically beyond the issues that we send to the podiatrists (ie diabetics, toenail issues, bunions, etc...). And, this thread could have turned into something like, "hey pruritis_ani, you are right, we have different training, that is different from yours, and we do have a limited scope. However, this is what we are trained to do, here are some outside sources to look into. Maybe this will help you understand what are current training is like". Instead, I got more of the same crap from you guys either talking about something inconsequential (ie the definition of physician) or by continuing to claim something that isn't true (ie scope of practice and training).

Whatever, I think my point has been made over and over and over. I am sure most of you can see where I am coming from by now. If not, you will never get it. Best of luck to you, and I hope all of you are a bit more careful with your claims. It honestly has disturbed me to read a lot of this. Hopefully it is reflective of a bunch of overzealous pod students, and not the DPM community as a whole.

I do honestly wish you the best in your education. If anybody is interested, feel free to PM me any research showing outcomes, esp with diabetics. I see lots of them. Also, something outlining the surgical procedures and the training in each one would be helpful. No need to post it here unless you want to continue this disaster of a thread. We can chat via PM.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

As far as scope of practice, the law states that you can treat disease only of the foot and ankle. So, blue toe syndrome? Sure, foot manifestations, give blood thinners. Somebody comes in in a-fib? You are not legally able to do squat. I am sure you check HgA1C. But you are not going to be looking to change insulin doses or prevent nephropathy.

We say the same thing but in different ways. I look at it as treating a systemic disease b/c a blood thinner does not work in the foot. I do not think that a podiatrist should treat an aortic aneurysm. In my eyes to say we treat only the foot and ankle that means just that, we stop there. If you give someone colcichine for gout that works in the kidneys and you better be prepared for any renal pathology that occurs. So to me, a podiatrist must be well versed in systemic disease to specialize in the foot and ankle.

All if this is side banter. I know most docs don't work outside of the specialty we train in. My point was only to show you that you were making some outrageous and untrue claims. When compared to an MD, DPM's have a markedly different legal scope of practice, which reflects the markedly different education.

Again some of this is true and some of this seems to be false, in my opinion. I do think that MD/DOs get more training than pods. I don't not agree with you when you say markedly different training, I see a PhD as markedly different. It is in the medical ball park but is sitting in the bleachers. A podiatrist has smiliar training, but we have what is know as hedge-hog training. It is specialized from day one, for good or for bad. Many people feel that hedge-hog theory is better than a jack of all trades; that is another debate though.

 

[pruritis_ani]

Well, administering drugs with systemic side effects is a lot different than treating systemic disease.

As far as markedly different, we are again disagreeing on terms. I would agree that around 50% of the education is pretty darn similar. Some of that 50% is identical. But, there is still a LOT of difference, and the difrerence is in the last 2 years. The last 2 years make up the bulk of medical school, at least in terms of what we use for the practice of medicine.

 

[ProdPod]

Well, administering drugs with systemic side effects is a lot different than treating systemic disease.

As far as markedly different, we are again disagreeing on terms. I would agree that around 50% of the education is pretty darn similar. Some of that 50% is identical. But, there is still a LOT of difference, and the difrerence is in the last 2 years. The last 2 years make up the bulk of medical school, at least in terms of what we use for the practice of medicine.

Do you really know our training? So far, you have failed to show anyone, (except billclinton), any of the solid facts that you claim to possess.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Well, administering drugs with systemic side effects is a lot different than treating systemic disease.

As far as markedly different, we are again disagreeing on terms. I would agree that around 50% of the education is pretty darn similar. Some of that 50% is identical. But, there is still a LOT of difference, and the difrerence is in the last 2 years. The last 2 years make up the bulk of medical school, at least in terms of what we use for the practice of medicine.

I'm sorry I miss spoke I met to say probenecid, which works on the kidneys to increase uric acid excretion. This is a kidney pathology not a lower limb pathology and pods treat it everyday. Just like uric acid overproduction is treated with allopurinol. These are the same treatments offered by all physicians. They are treatments of systemic diseases.

I guess well just have to agree to disagree.

 

[runnersfeet]

Where did you come from? out of nowhere? Have you not kept up with this forum? Pods want to be recognized as medical students because they went to medical school...DUH...have ya done the research, read anything on pod schools in the last 10 years?? obviously not. We do have pride, which would be why we are defending ourselves...if we had no pride, we would let the lame people on this forum tell us that we are not physicians and did not go to medical school. We are not pharm. reps that went to a 2 week training and then want to be called physicians...we are - or are furture- doctors of podiatric medicine, which required getting through medical school, one that specialized in the foot and ankle...hence it being called Podiatric Medical School! What is YOUR fuss all about? Can't handle that DPMs are just as qualified to treat the foot and ankle as an ortho is the shoulder...well get over it...it shouldn't bother you if you are really in medicine to effectively treat patients.

Whoever posted it earlier is right. Pods are not medical students any more than dental or optometry students are medical students. I don't see what the fuss is about. If you wanted to be recognized as medical students, you should not have gone to podiatry school.

Now before you begin to call me a Podcist, know that I once considered podiatry, but decided against it because I did not want to be limited to only the feet. Have some pride in your own profession and stop trying to ride on another's.

 

[billclinton]

Where did you come from? out of nowhere? Have you not kept up with this forum? Pods want to be recognized as medical students because they went to medical school...DUH...have ya done the research, read anything on pod schools in the last 10 years?? obviously not. We do have pride, which would be why we are defending ourselves...if we had no pride, we would let the lame people on this forum tell us that we are not physicians and did not go to medical school. We are not pharm. reps that went to a 2 week training and then want to be called physicians...we are - or are furture- doctors of podiatric medicine, which required getting through medical school, one that specialized in the foot and ankle...hence it being called Podiatric Medical School! What is YOUR fuss all about? Can't handle that DPMs are just as qualified to treat the foot and ankle as an ortho is the shoulder...well get over it...it shouldn't bother you if you are really in medicine to effectively treat patients.

a couple of lame people? i won't argue about the lame part... but have you seen the poll and the the thread? have you read any of the many websites? it appears the majority of people agree that podiatry school is not medical school (but it is a school of podiatric medicine, aka foot medicine).

check this out: it appears the government also agrees with our standpoint:
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos075.htm
"...Insurers will balance the cost of sending patients to podiatrists against the cost and availability of substitute practitioners, such as physicians and
physical therapists. "

If podiatrists were considered physicians, this would have been worded in the following way, "...such as other physicians". Also notice that this site does not group physicians and podiatrists together.

Although this is kind of an unwritten rule, you cannot deny that most everyone (besides a few pod students with chips on their shoulder) will agree that podiatrists are not physicians because they did not attend an allopathic or osteopathic medical school.

 

[billclinton]

What school do you attend, or is this too hard a question for you to comprehend? Additionally, I'm not here to please you. So your facts are really more like slanted opinions. What facts do you present?

why would it matter where i worked or what schools i went to. i could say anything i wanted and it would mean nothing. you cannot validate statements on an online forum by stating who you are unless you plan on submitting some sort of proof. frankly, i do not give my name out or anything about me on the internet... i get enough spam as it is. i don't need any hate mail from physician-wanabees.... "physbees" (not the relation to wankstas- wanabee ganstas).

if you are reading my profile, it has the default settings. i have not made any attempts to change it. good day.

 

[runnersfeet]

Circles and circles...you can think what you want, but the oh superior poll on the big time SDN does not speak truth...just opinion by a few (literally a few when compared to the # of physicians out there who likely are not on SDN)...so the facts speak for themselves not just opinion by students who are quite ignorant. I dont think you can read into an articles intention by how it was worded, unless you worded it yourself. Again, go into a hospital and learn for yourself. I shadowed the head of the pod residency here where I live and he is known as a physician - as are all of his DPM colleagues...I live in a big city...this is the way it is unless you take a time machine back 10 or so years. They went to med school...it shouldnt bother you unless you have a chip on YOUR shoulder. I wonder how many pages this thread will end with...or will it ever end...hmmmm.

a couple of lame people? i won't argue about the lame part... but have you seen the poll and the the thread? have you read any of the many websites? it appears the majority of people agree that podiatry school is not medical school (but it is a school of podiatric medicine, aka foot medicine).

check this out: it appears the government also agrees with our standpoint:
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos075.htm
"...Insurers will balance the cost of sending patients to podiatrists against the cost and availability of substitute practitioners, such as physicians and
physical therapists. "

If podiatrists were considered physicians, this would have been worded in the following way, "...such as other physicians". Also notice that this site does not group physicians and podiatrists together.

Although this is kind of an unwritten rule, you cannot deny that most everyone (besides a few pod students with chips on their shoulder) will agree that podiatrists are not physicians because they did not attend an allopathic or osteopathic medical school.

 

[N4658H]

I am now thoroughly confused. It seems that the real world has no problem classifying podiatrists as physicians. Are some of us really trying to deny this? I can understand both sides of the argument, however it seems that the facts speak for themselves.

A few examples:

http://www.saintelizabethonline.com...=find&search=Find+Physician&pp=73&page_id=100

http://home.coxhealth.com/PhysicianSearch

http://www.nwhospital.org/physicians/md_search.asp?Mode=Search&S1=37

http://www.hunterdonhealthcare.org/text/physician_results2.asp?tfspecialty=podiatry

http://www.firsthealth.org/physician_search.asp?PLastName=&Specialty=Podiatry&Clinic=None

http://www.mission4health.com/content.php/findaphysician/345/?phys=75

 

[krabmas]

I do not feel I have belittled the profession of podiatry. I feel the same as fern. Podiatry has it's place. However, podiatrists are not physicians in the truce sense of the word and they do not go to medical school. Podatrists are health professionals, but their training is not as extensive as the training of a MD or DO- hence why they are limited to the foot and ankle. The foot and ankle is the part of the body that is of the minimal importance/least complicated, when compared to the heart, the brain, the kidneys, the lungs, the skin, the eyes, etc, etc. There is a need for the admissions to medical school to be rigorous and to some standard, which is why there are high standards for medical school and not so for podiatry school.

If you were to tell anyone in a hospital that you, as a podiatrist, is a physician , they would laugh at you. Maybe not to your face, but they would behind your back. Heck, you tell the public this, they will laugh at you. Do you watch Seinfeld? Having worked in the health field for 15 years, I can guarentee you this. Claiming that you are a physician would be like a high school track star claiming they're a world class athelete.

Do you know how many bones are in the foot? Did you know the foot has nerves, vessels, joints, muscles....?

Do you even know the parts of a gait cycle of walking or running?

I would ask you more questions you do not know the answers to but I don't feel like wasting anymore of my precious time

 

[JustMyLuck]

It doesn't make a hoot of difference to me whether MDs or wikipedia (haha these entries can be edited by anyone) consider podiatrists to be physicians, or whether pods actually are physicians. However there is currently a bill under consideration by congress that will include DPM in the definition of 'physician' under Medicaid. Medicaid currently does not consider podiatrists to be physicians.

 

[billclinton]

It doesn't make a hoot of difference to me whether MDs or wikipedia (haha these entries can be edited by anyone) consider podiatrists to be physicians, or whether pods actually are physicians.

hey, here's more evidence of a lack of reasoning in pod students. so, i guess from the previous post you are saying that because wikipedia can be edited by anybody, nobody else believes that podiatrists aren't physicians. lol. As was already explained, the point of using wikipedia was to show that the general concensus among the layman is that podiatrists are not physicians, because if it wasn't then wikipedia would say something else.

The point of using websters, numerous other dictionaries, and taking a poll among MDs and DOs was to show that the general concensus among the professional world is that podiatrists are not physicians.

Medicaid currently does not consider podiatrists to be physicians.

To the poster above who asked questions about the foot and gait: those are questions that are taught in any intro anatomy class. Knowing the answers to those does not make you podiatrist, much less a physician. I am really sure a patient will come into your office and the only way you will be able to cure him is if you know how many bones he has in is foot.

 

[ProdPod]

hey, here's more evidence of a lack of reasoning in pod students. so, i guess from the previous post you are saying that because wikipedia can be edited by anybody, nobody else believes that podiatrists aren't physicians. lol. As was already explained, the point of using wikipedia was to show that the general concensus among the layman is that podiatrists are not physicians, because if it wasn't then wikipedia would say something else.

The point of using websters, numerous other dictionaries, and taking a poll among MDs and DOs was to show that the general concensus among the professional world is that podiatrists are not physicians.



To the poster above who asked questions about the foot and gait: those are questions that are taught in any intro anatomy class. Knowing the answers to those does not make you podiatrist, much less a physician. I am really sure a patient will come into your office and the only way you will be able to cure him is if you know how many bones he has in is foot.

Dude, shut-up and find another forum. Your like a nagging little kid!

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

To the poster above who asked questions about the foot and gait: those are questions that are taught in any intro anatomy class.

Wow if they taught you the gait cycle, that is one tough intro to anatomy.

 

[WildcatDMD]

Do you know how many bones are in the foot? Did you know the foot has nerves, vessels, joints, muscles....?

Do you even know the parts of a gait cycle of walking or running?

I would ask you more questions you do not know the answers to but I don't feel like wasting anymore of my precious time

The lower limb is the only part of the body most dental students do not study (although there are some lower limb questions on our board examination... ). I actually would like to know, how many bones are there in the foot?

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

The lower limb is the only part of the body most dental students do not study (although there are some lower limb questions on our board examination... ). I actually would like to know, how many bones are there in the foot?

distal phalanges 5
intermediate phalanges 4
proximal phalanges 5
metatarsals 5
tarsal bones (3 cuneiforms, navicular, cuboid, talus, calcaneus) 7

For a grand total of 26 bones per foot (bilaterally that ends up being 1/4 of the bones in the whole body)

 

[krabmas]

distal phalanges 5
intermediate phalanges 4
proximal phalanges 5
metatarsals 5
tarsal bones (3 cuneiforms, navicular, cuboid, talus, calcaneus) 7

For a grand total of 26 bones per foot (bilaterally that ends up being 1/4 of the bones in the whole body)

so at DMU - you do not include the FHB sesamoids?