Thinking about dropping out, please give me some advice.

[stlmo314]

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Hey everyone.
I'm currently a P1 at a pharmacy school branch campus and I've been extremely stressed out lately. Basically I went into pharmacy school and sorta liked working hospital, but I hated working retail at WAGS. I stress so much about the saturation and I'm extremely homesick (I'm 4 hours away from home) and it's become almost unbearable. The thing that's really holding me back from dropping out is not knowing what I would pursue after (I don't have my bachelors). I'd probably prefer to do something business related, but I don't wanna start over, so I'm basically stuck. Does anyone have any advice on where I should go from here?

Thanks

 

[UGAZ]

Do it...highly recommended! Job market + huge loan debt = bad future...I would not touch pharmacy now.

 

[gwarm01]

How old are you? I ask because of your comment about being away from home and not having a bachelors. Being away from home for the first time is going to be difficult, but that is part of adult life. It's part of being a professional. If you are anything like me, you may have grown up in a rural town hours and hours away from even a minor city. Education, work, everything about life may take you away from home. It gets easier with time and as you grow.

Saturation is real. The declining job prospects are real. Retail is our first-in, first-out example in pharmacy. Demand booms, pay swells, demand declines, pay deflates. True full-time work still exists in hospitals, but competition is fierce. There are still opportunities out there, but you have to be willing to fight for it. Ask yourself what your true priorities are. If you aren't willing to move, sacrifice your personal life, you may not find what you are looking for.

The people who want to graduate, find a job in their home city, and live happily ever after are the people who struggle. I have done well for myself, but it has required moving across the country multiple times, sometimes to undesirable areas, to get the job I wanted. Are you willing to do the same?

Do it...highly recommended! Job market + huge loan debt = bad future...I would not touch pharmacy now.

Come on, man. He's obviously young and looking for direction. There is still hope in pharmacy for the right people. Give a little more thought to the question than that.

 

[stlmo314]

How old are you? I ask because of your comment about being away from home and not having a bachelors. Being away from home for the first time is going to be difficult, but that is part of adult life. It's part of being a professional. If you are anything like me, you may have grown up in a rural town hours and hours away from even a minor city. Education, work, everything about life may take you away from home. It gets easier with time and as you grow.

Saturation is real. The declining job prospects are real. Retail is our first-in, first-out example in pharmacy. Demand booms, pay swells, demand declines, pay deflates. True full-time work still exists in hospitals, but competition is fierce. There are still opportunities out there, but you have to be willing to fight for it. Ask yourself what your true priorities are. If you aren't willing to move, sacrifice your personal life, you may not find what you are looking for.

The people who want to graduate, find a job in their home city, and live happily ever after are the people who struggle. I have done well for myself, but it has required moving across the country multiple times, sometimes to undesirable areas, to get the job I wanted. Are you willing to do the same?



Come on, man. He's obviously young and looking for direction. There is still hope in pharmacy for the right people. Give a little more thought to the question than that.

I'm 20, I'll be 21 in a few months. I've thought about transferring to a school closer to home, but I realize that it's a long-shot because the curriculum doesn't match up between the 2 schools. In all honesty, I do find what hospital pharmacists due to be interesting and I think I would enjoy it, but I know it's very difficult to attain a residency. I would honestly take a decent sized pay cut not to work retail, but I know non-retail jobs are few and far between. I think school, my personal life/loneliness, and the fear of not getting a job after graduation have all caused me to essentially hate my life. I don't want my last 3 years of hard work to go to waste and start over, but at the same time the anxiety of not getting a job is tearing me up.

 

[disgonbgud]

I'm 20, I'll be 21 in a few months. I've thought about transferring to a school closer to home, but I realize that it's a long-shot because the curriculum doesn't match up between the 2 schools. In all honesty, I do find what hospital pharmacists due to be interesting and I think I would enjoy it, but I know it's very difficult to attain a residency. I would honestly take a decent sized pay cut not to work retail, but I know non-retail jobs are few and far between. I think school, my personal life/loneliness, and the fear of not getting a job after graduation have all caused me to essentially hate my life. I don't want my last 3 years of hard work to go to waste and start over, but at the same time the anxiety of not getting a job is tearing me up.

Perhaps look into public health or healthcare administration, or another field on the office or business operations setting side of healthcare.

 

[radio frequency]

Today, I would absolutely drop out in your shoes and search for alternatives. Five years ago, my advice would have been different. I don’t hate my job or anything, but I think pharmacy is not heading in a sustainable direction.

 

[VA77]

Run...don't walk...Run and get drop forms

 

[johnpharm01]

I'm 20, I'll be 21 in a few months. I've thought about transferring to a school closer to home, but I realize that it's a long-shot because the curriculum doesn't match up between the 2 schools. In all honesty, I do find what hospital pharmacists due to be interesting and I think I would enjoy it, but I know it's very difficult to attain a residency. I would honestly take a decent sized pay cut not to work retail, but I know non-retail jobs are few and far between. I think school, my personal life/loneliness, and the fear of not getting a job after graduation have all caused me to essentially hate my life. I don't want my last 3 years of hard work to go to waste and start over, but at the same time the anxiety of not getting a job is tearing me up.

Kudos to you for considering your job opportunities before graduation date many pharmacy students (P4s, interns) seem oblivious to the job market and working conditions. I am pessimistic about the job market and think permanent changes are occurring in the practice of pharmacy. That alone would be reason to change course. In so far as your homesickness you have my empathy. I was a homebody that went straight into the military out of high school. Making a few good friends makes a world of difference. If you moved home and went to school, but had to repeat coursework, so what? It would cost extra but in the long run you might be happier.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Dropping out now is far better than 3-4 years later when you’re $200k+ in debt. Keep in mind that while there are some hospital jobs out there, they are extremely difficult to land with the saturation. The vast majority of graduates end up in retail.

There are other professions, i.e. computer programming, finance, accounting, engineering, business, etc. that pay well, offer a decent work-life balance, and do not require you to take out $200k+ in loans and spend an additional 4 years of your life in school.

 

[MV777]

Hey everyone.
I'm currently a P1 at a pharmacy school branch campus and I've been extremely stressed out lately. Basically I went into pharmacy school and sorta liked working hospital, but I hated working retail at WAGS. I stress so much about the saturation and I'm extremely homesick (I'm 4 hours away from home) and it's become almost unbearable. The thing that's really holding me back from dropping out is not knowing what I would pursue after (I don't have my bachelors). I'd probably prefer to do something business related, but I don't wanna start over, so I'm basically stuck. Does anyone have any advice on where I should go from here?

Thanks

I absolutely hate to say this but the future is not promising. I graduated 2 years ago and I am stuck at this point. Hours are being cut all the time, tech help is cut, no breaks, more metrics and more immunizations being shoved down your throat daily, and working off the clock everyday and not getting paid is the current situation. Do not pursue if you hated walgreens because 90% of a graduating class will end up in retail, let’s be honest. Also...Amazon is in the near future.

 

[UGAZ]

I have been in practice as a clinical pharmacist for 12 years and I can tell you it’s very difficult to get an inpatient hospital job. My hospital recently also cut hours like crazy, and I had to look for a per diet job to cover the gap. It took me almost 6 months to land a second job even with my clinical experiences. You need to have connection and that wasn’t enough. Need some luck too....

 

[Dr. Galazkiewicz]

It sucks you have probably 25K already sunk into this, but the way you have to look at it is that you're saving 175-200K.

Don't look back. What's been done to this generation is absolutely criminal on a vast scale. i don't know how these school administrators sleep at night knowing they're are destroying lives two to three hundred at a time per year and all those previous grads prior to the saturation.

 

[stlmo314]

It sucks you have probably 25K already sunk into this, but the way you have to look at it is that you're saving 175-200K.

Don't look back. What's been done to this generation is absolutely criminal on a vast scale. i don't know how these school administrators sleep at night knowing they're are destroying lives two to three hundred at a time per year and all those previous grads prior to the saturation.

I just don't know what I'm gonna do man. If I drop out I've basically wasted 2-3 years of my life and I'll be behind all of my peers. I also don't know what else I'd pursue tbh. I could try dentistry school, but that's not a sure bet and it's also another 4-6 years of my life bc I'll need to finish my bachelors.

 

[TimeZero]

Hey everyone.
I'm currently a P1 at a pharmacy school branch campus and I've been extremely stressed out lately. Basically I went into pharmacy school and sorta liked working hospital, but I hated working retail at WAGS. I stress so much about the saturation and I'm extremely homesick (I'm 4 hours away from home) and it's become almost unbearable. The thing that's really holding me back from dropping out is not knowing what I would pursue after (I don't have my bachelors). I'd probably prefer to do something business related, but I don't wanna start over, so I'm basically stuck. Does anyone have any advice on where I should go from here?

Thanks

What about "sorta liked working in a hospital", motivated you to pursue pharmacy? Like others have stated, inpatient pharmacy is not immune to saturation and the current trajectory is unsustainable. Most institutions are cutting positions; PGY1/2 and good connections do not carry the same weight that they use to. Job security, mobility and satisfaction are or will be things of the past. At least for those who are able to go the traditional retail/hospital route. You could luck out and find a unicorn position, who knows, but it is becoming more and more of a gamble.

You are not stuck and have plenty of time to figure out what you want to do. If you do decide to leave pharmacy school, I recommend against moving back home. Sooner or later, you'll have to grow up if you want to be a functioning adult. You can't always run back home when you get a little discouraged.

With that being said, there will always be a need for pharmacists, but the profession has really dug itself into a deep hole. The role and number of pharmacists needed in the next 10-20 years is anyone's guess.

Most people (including those on this forum) are jaded and have their own best interests at heart. Take everyone's opinion with a grain of salt, do your research, weigh your options, then try to make the best informed decision that you can.

Feel free to PM me with questions.

 

[Dr. Galazkiewicz]

I just don't know what I'm gonna do man. If I drop out I've basically wasted 2-3 years of my life and I'll be behind all of my peers. I also don't know what else I'd pursue tbh. I could try dentistry school, but that's not a sure bet and it's also another 4-6 years of my life bc I'll need to finish my bachelors.

There are jobs out there that don't require a college degree. Clerical jobs that pay 20-25 bucks per hour with room for advancement. Civil service jobs in local government, though I don't know how long that gravy train will last with the debt apocalypse looming. Sometimes you have to step back and look at the social inertial forces that are driving so many to go to college. is it really worth it now?

You might be better off hooking up with a federal contractor now with the oil/gas renaissance upcoming as the US becomes energy independent. Or go with a company that is lucky enough to get a contract involved with OBOR overseas. That would look great on a resume.

 

[med77]

There are jobs out there that don't require a college degree. Clerical jobs that pay 20-25 bucks per hour with room for advancement. Civil service jobs in local government, though I don't know how long that gravy train will last with the debt apocalypse looming. Sometimes you have to step back and look at the social inertial forces that are driving so many to go to college. is it really worth it now?

You might be better off hooking up with a federal contractor now with the oil/gas renaissance upcoming as the US becomes energy independent. Or go with a company that is lucky enough to get a contract involved with OBOR overseas. That would look great on a resume.

This is very location dependent. In a major city like Boston, Chicago, etc., sure you can get a clerical job for that pay. Places like Denver will pay less. Still a city, and a growing one at that, but the wages aren't going to be that high for a clerical job not requiring a degree.

 

[Modest_anteater]

Hey everyone.
I'm currently a P1 at a pharmacy school branch campus and I've been extremely stressed out lately. Basically I went into pharmacy school and sorta liked working hospital, but I hated working retail at WAGS. I stress so much about the saturation and I'm extremely homesick (I'm 4 hours away from home) and it's become almost unbearable. The thing that's really holding me back from dropping out is not knowing what I would pursue after (I don't have my bachelors). I'd probably prefer to do something business related, but I don't wanna start over, so I'm basically stuck. Does anyone have any advice on where I should go from here?

Thanks

Drop out. now. You need to switch to businesses. If you are already unhappy now the unhappiness you feel will only be 10x worse by P3 year. You need to get out. Your mental health will get much worse and you will not only be a danger to yourself but also to others.

Pharmacy is hyper-saturated and going to get a lot worse in the coming years with the supply and demanding being out of wack.

 

[Modest_anteater]

I just don't know what I'm gonna do man. If I drop out I've basically wasted 2-3 years of my life and I'll be behind all of my peers. I also don't know what else I'd pursue tbh. I could try dentistry school, but that's not a sure bet and it's also another 4-6 years of my life bc I'll need to finish my bachelors.

you NEED to get out NOW.

 

[johnpharm01]

There are jobs out there that don't require a college degree. Clerical jobs that pay 20-25 bucks per hour with room for advancement. Civil service jobs in local government, though I don't know how long that gravy train will last with the debt apocalypse looming. Sometimes you have to step back and look at the social inertial forces that are driving so many to go to college. is it really worth it now?

You might be better off hooking up with a federal contractor now with the oil/gas renaissance upcoming as the US becomes energy independent. Or go with a company that is lucky enough to get a contract involved with OBOR overseas. That would look great on a resume.

When I was out of work last time I tried this. I applied for multiple positions including an insurance claim adjuster which started at $20 per hour, OJT and room for growth. It was with a well respected company, good benes. When I interviewed, the interviewer asked me why I wanted to switch and gave them a good answer, but her mother in law happened to be a pharmacist and she said they make good money. Needless to say didn't get the job so its not that easy to segway to other fields.

 

[Modest_anteater]

When I was out of work last time I tried this. I applied for multiple positions including an insurance claim adjuster which started at $20 per hour, OJT and room for growth. It was with a well respected company, good benes. When I interviewed, the interviewer asked me why I wanted to switch and gave them a good answer, but her mother in law happened to be a pharmacist and she said they make good money. Needless to say didn't get the job so its not that easy to segway to other fields.

Not only does a college degree hurt you due to the large amount of debt you go into but it also acts as a liability by preventing you from getting other jobs as company will see you as damaged goods or at best a flight risk.

 

[Dr. Galazkiewicz]

When I was out of work last time I tried this. I applied for multiple positions including an insurance claim adjuster which started at $20 per hour, OJT and room for growth. It was with a well respected company, good benes. When I interviewed, the interviewer asked me why I wanted to switch and gave them a good answer, but her mother in law happened to be a pharmacist and she said they make good money. Needless to say didn't get the job so its not that easy to segway to other fields.

What I suggest is lie on the resume. Don't mention pharmacy. Say you were a tech or a FE assistant manager. For education put B.S. Biology
or something like that. The recruiter sees pharmacy and will get intimidated. Don't worry about the morality of it. The culture is trash anyway. You gotta be a economic ninja insurgent in today's labor market.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Depends, what are your GPAs?

Are you someone who barley got into a Pharmacy school? If I was a Bio major who barely scrapped by with a 2.8 GPA, I would consider myself lucky to get into Pharmacy and just move to a rural area after 4th year and be content with my 110K/year soul sucking job at Retail Store Inc.

If my GPA was around the 3.3-3.6 range, I would pull out of the program and look at other healthcare fields that havent been hit with saturation, like Podiatry, DO, and the like.

If I rocked undergrad and have a 3.8+, I would leave and pursue MD school. It is top dog for a reason.

This would be assuming I still wanted to do healthcare. If not, I would look at either accounting, Engineering, or as others have said, IT/Computer science.

The big three for undergrad are: Accounting, Engineering, Nursing. These will usually yield a job at the end of the college rainbow.

 

[Dr. Galazkiewicz]

Depends, what are your GPAs?

Are you someone who barley got into a Pharmacy school? If I was a Bio major who barely scrapped by with a 2.8 GPA, I would consider myself lucky to get into Pharmacy and just move to a rural area after 4th year and be content with my 110K/year soul sucking job at Retail Store Inc.

If my GPA was around the 3.3-3.6 range, I would pull out of the program and look at other healthcare fields that havent been hit with saturation, like Podiatry, DO, and the like.

If I rocked undergrad and have a 3.8+, I would leave and pursue MD school. It is top dog for a reason.

This would be assuming I still wanted to do healthcare. If not, I would look at either accounting, Engineering, or as others have said, IT/Computer science.

The big three for undergrad are: Accounting, Engineering, Nursing. These will usually yield a job at the end of the college rainbow.

I think these rural locations will be the first target for Amazon drones or tech check tech remote satellite pharmacies. Let's face it. The days of a brick n mortar pharmacy sitting on how many hundreds of thousands of inventory have been over for awhile. The model has just been waiting to be put out of its misery.

 

[Jbrl]

I'm 20, I'll be 21 in a few months. I've thought about transferring to a school closer to home, but I realize that it's a long-shot because the curriculum doesn't match up between the 2 schools. In all honesty, I do find what hospital pharmacists due to be interesting and I think I would enjoy it, but I know it's very difficult to attain a residency. I would honestly take a decent sized pay cut not to work retail, but I know non-retail jobs are few and far between. I think school, my personal life/loneliness, and the fear of not getting a job after graduation have all caused me to essentially hate my life. I don't want my last 3 years of hard work to go to waste and start over, but at the same time the anxiety of not getting a job is tearing me up.

Don't fall prey to sunk cost bias. It's OK to start over - make a rational, informed decision on the cost/benefit of a decision that could determine the rest of your working life. You're still very early in the program. It's hard to know what you don't know. Even "business," which you express interest in, is a highly general field with a myriad of subspecialties. Find out what you don't know.

What I recommend you do is take a semester or two off from pharmacy school and go back home. You're not the first person to ask for temporary leave, and you can bow out any time. Take time to evaluate everything. Get a job. Explore avenues you're interested in by taking courses in those degree pathways at a community college or the college you're currently attending, speaking with a career counselor, speaking with professionals in various fields, and shadowing.

That's the advice I wish I were given coming into college.

 

[BaSsHeAd]

...but I don't wanna start over, so I'm basically stuck.

Okay, then wait an additional three years to finish pharmacy school, struggle to find a job after graduation, then start over.

What difference is it to start over now at 21 than when you’re 24 or 25? Time.

You’re going to have to start over regardless. Better to be filled with regret now than later.

 

[quickpic007]

Hey everyone.
I'm currently a P1 at a pharmacy school branch campus and I've been extremely stressed out lately. Basically I went into pharmacy school and sorta liked working hospital, but I hated working retail at WAGS. I stress so much about the saturation and I'm extremely homesick (I'm 4 hours away from home) and it's become almost unbearable. The thing that's really holding me back from dropping out is not knowing what I would pursue after (I don't have my bachelors). I'd probably prefer to do something business related, but I don't wanna start over, so I'm basically stuck. Does anyone have any advice on where I should go from here?

Thanks

pretend your own best friend told you this. what would you tell them. easy answer. choose a diff path in life. If you are not willing to sacrifice for pharmacy it is not worth it.

Hint:even i dont think its worth it in your shoes...

 

[beautifulrobot]

Since you already have 3 years of college under your belt, I would recommend asking your school if they have a program in place to issue you a bachelors degree after completing the 2nd year of pharmacy school. Some pharmacy schools have something like this in place. This way, you can walk away from pharmacy school with at least a 4 year college degree, and something to show for the time and money youve invested in college so far. Having a college degree - any college degree - makes you a much better candidate for most white collar jobs, as well as it opens doors for other graduate training programs. Hopefully your school has such a program in place, and you won't feel as "stuck". Also, please keep in mind that you aren't really stuck, but rather you just have some tough decisions to make, and that the anxiety you are feeling is very normal for young adults. Adulthood isn't easy, but nothing worth doing ever is.

 

[ExpressMaiL]

You could try PA or nursing. Or do something unrelated to health.

 

[rockpharm]

You mentioned that you like business. Before you make a final decision, go work for an independent as an intern. That's where I got my appreciations for the profession. Wags and the chains are COMPLETELY different, as independents focus on the business side. With and independent you get the best of both worlds--science and business.

 

[AlwaysContrary]

Depends, what are your GPAs?

Are you someone who barley got into a Pharmacy school? If I was a Bio major who barely scrapped by with a 2.8 GPA, I would consider myself lucky to get into Pharmacy and just move to a rural area after 4th year and be content with my 110K/year soul sucking job at Retail Store Inc.

If my GPA was around the 3.3-3.6 range, I would pull out of the program and look at other healthcare fields that havent been hit with saturation, like Podiatry, DO, and the like.

If I rocked undergrad and have a 3.8+, I would leave and pursue MD school. It is top dog for a reason.

This would be assuming I still wanted to do healthcare. If not, I would look at either accounting, Engineering, or as others have said, IT/Computer science.

The big three for undergrad are: Accounting, Engineering, Nursing. These will usually yield a job at the end of the college rainbow.

Did you just say Podiatry and DO aren't saturated? My guy, go look at their forums lol

 

[rph3664]

I just don't know what I'm gonna do man. If I drop out I've basically wasted 2-3 years of my life and I'll be behind all of my peers. I also don't know what else I'd pursue tbh. I could try dentistry school, but that's not a sure bet and it's also another 4-6 years of my life bc I'll need to finish my bachelors.

You have NOT wasted 2-3 years of your life! Finish the semester, transfer to the school you really want to attend, and pursue the degree you really want. You might be surprised at what does transfer, and really, a liberal arts degree will not require you to start over from scratch. Your science classes and general ed courses should apply in some way, credit-wise.

 

[GypsyHummus]

DO is certainly not saturated once you become a doc. Look online, there are places begging for family medicine doctors.

Pods are a bit of hit and miss. Saturated areas are hard to make work, but in the rural and smaller cities, pods can clean up pretty well. Not a ton of job postings, most jobs are fond via word of mouth.

Did you just say Podiatry and DO aren't saturated? My guy, go look at their forums lol

 

[BidingMyTime]

DO is certainly not saturated once you become a doc. Look online, there are places begging for family medicine doctors.

The problem is that more DO schools are opening up, but there is concern that there won't be enough residencies for all the graduates. And a MD/DO without a residency means one can not practice as a doctor.

 

[Rukn]

Walk out today and never look back

 

[GypsyHummus]

There are plenty of spots if places stop accepting the international Med and carribean grads.

The problem is that more DO schools are opening up, but there is concern that there won't be enough residencies for all the graduates. And a MD/DO without a residency means one can not practice as a doctor.

 

[BidingMyTime]

There are plenty of spots if places stop roaming the international Med and carribean grads.

You ignore the fact of DO schools expanding. Undoubtedly, IMG's and Carribean grads will be the first to lose out on residency slots, but the increasing number of DO's will be affecting DO's (and to a lesser extent MD's) as well.

 

[DIPEA]

My recommendation for you is to STAY in the program! Yes, I am recommending you to STAY! not leaving it and starting everything all over since that's way more risky and uncertain than just finishing your pharmacy degree. Yes, it will make you more in-debt, but grass isn't always greener on other sides. Many previous threads recommend MD/Dentistry/PA/Nursing, etc. But medical schools, dental schools and all other health professional schools all cost A TON to graduate, and that's not even the end, and you have to fight for residencies. MD and DDS aren't immune to saturation either, just to mind you! There is a real possibility that you can incur even more debt and who know what would happen 10 years later? Would it be a MD or DDS glut? For many metro areas, MD and DDS are saturated like hell as well. Switching to another healthcare occupation sounds just super risky and makes absolutely no financial sense to me.

Do you like programming? There are just countless free or cheap online resources to either self-teach how to code or do a 6 month coding bootcamp or a combination of both. I think the safest bet is to finish your pharmacy program and GRADUATE! But in your last year, or any summer time, enrol in a coding bootcamp or subscribe to Udacity etc and teach yourself how to code! There is a serious lack of programmers in this country, and by preparing early, your programming skills will be your career safety net! Then by the time you graduate and get licensed, if you can land a pharmacist job, great! If not, you can always fall back on your programming skills and get a job in tech to pay for student loan debt and make a decent living, while keep looking for a full-time or part-time weekend pharmacist job if you really like pharmacy. And who knows, maybe one day Amazon or whatever pharmacy/healthcare informatics companies and startups will start hiring a bunch of pharmacists with IT skills and you can work for them.

I am very risk-averse, so I highly recommend you NOT to drop out! Instead, finish the pharmacy school and get licensed just like everybody else, BUT prepare early by start learning computer science NOW!

 

[BidingMyTime]

There is a serious lack of programmers in this country, and by preparing early, your programming skills will be your career safety net!

Wrong. There is not a serious lack of programmers in this country, every other person can program, or knows the basics. What there is, is a serious lack of *good* programmers. Just because someone can get a degree in programming, doesn't mean they have the skills and creativity needed to be a good programmer. I get so tired of reading this advice all over the pharmacy boards telling students they should do some other specific job instead of pharmacy. This is a recipe for failure. Just because the job prospects are good in a career field, doesn't mean that any individual person has the right skills to succeed at that job.

 

[DIPEA]

Wrong. There is not a serious lack of programmers in this country, every other person can program, or knows the basics. What there is, is a serious lack of *good* programmers. Just because someone can get a degree in programming, doesn't mean they have the skills and creativity needed to be a good programmer. I get so tired of reading this advice all over the pharmacy boards telling students they should do some other specific job instead of pharmacy. This is a recipe for failure. Just because the job prospects are good in a career field, doesn't mean that any individual person has the right skills to succeed at that job.

I am from California Bay Area, and I can tell you that I have heard stories and have family friends who had barely much prior programming experience and after 6 months of coding bootcamp, they landed jobs at IT giants like Microsoft, Apple and various startups. Do you think they are *good* programmers? Hell NO!

 

[DIPEA]

Wrong. There is not a serious lack of programmers in this country, every other person can program, or knows the basics. What there is, is a serious lack of *good* programmers. Just because someone can get a degree in programming, doesn't mean they have the skills and creativity needed to be a good programmer. I get so tired of reading this advice all over the pharmacy boards telling students they should do some other specific job instead of pharmacy. This is a recipe for failure. Just because the job prospects are good in a career field, doesn't mean that any individual person has the right skills to succeed at that job.

One thing you really don't seem to know about the IT industry in California. So many IT startups are relying on H1B visa workers from India to meet their demands either because they can't find a willing local programmer to work for them or cannot afford one. Many of those H1B visa holders from India have no prior work or academic experience in North America whatsoever, they are fresh-off-the-boat from India! Many are HORRIBLE programmers, just absolutely horrible.....

Regarding your comments on "every other person can program, or knows the basics", yes, i agree, if knowing basic python or java syntax counts, then yup every other person can program. I have personally met many people who quit once they started to learn a bit more advanced stuff, like algorithms, Many simply don't have the mental determination to deal with the seemingly frustrating cycle of algorithmic thinking, implementation, debugging and testing during the learning process. But if someone is so determined to learn it, it's really not that hard, at least not as hard as most people think. If someone is capable of dealing with the amount of material pharmacy schools dish out and passing NAPLEX, he/she can spend 1/2 of that effort and will at least become a decent programmer and make a good living out of it.

 

[PangoPillPusher]

Hey everyone.
I'm currently a P1 at a pharmacy school branch campus and I've been extremely stressed out lately. Basically I went into pharmacy school and sorta liked working hospital, but I hated working retail at WAGS. I stress so much about the saturation and I'm extremely homesick (I'm 4 hours away from home) and it's become almost unbearable. The thing that's really holding me back from dropping out is not knowing what I would pursue after (I don't have my bachelors). I'd probably prefer to do something business related, but I don't wanna start over, so I'm basically stuck. Does anyone have any advice on where I should go from here?

Thanks

I honestly believe that pharmacy is heading in the same direction that occupational therapy went in. OT's in basically managerial positions only, managing the OTA's who are providing the care that OT's went to school for.

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[BidingMyTime]

So many IT startups are relying on H1B visa workers from India to meet their demands either because they can't find a willing local programmer to work for them or cannot afford one. Many of those H1B visa holders from India have no prior work or academic experience in North America whatsoever, they are fresh-off-the-boat from India! Many are HORRIBLE programmers, just absolutely horrible.....

This is another real issue, companies (even the ones who could afford), don't want to pay a decent salary to get a good programmer. And depending on what kind of company it is, many companies have no idea the difference between a good programmer or a bad programmer, so they will just hire the cheapest one.

This is what the BLS says about computer programmers: Computer Programmers : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
Median pay
$80,000/yr, -7% job decline, -21,300 loss of jobs over past year

compare that to pharmacists:
Median pay
$122,000/yr, +6% job increase, +17,400 jobs over past year

Does the BLS purposely paint a rosy picture for job seekers? Perhaps. Certainly, the statistics don't "sound right" for pharmacists. Bbut just think how much worse the job market for computer programmers is, if the BLS is rosying up their picture.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Tech companies have realized that they cannot just hire any warm body that is willing to work the longest hours for least pay. They tried that last decade with H1Bs and outsourcing, and failed miserably.

The massive growth in tech has led to a shortage of programmers. Companies have no choice but to do what employers have always done in the past: train programmers from the ground up, including those with no degree.

In pharmacy? You get to pay for your 4 years of schooling with loans from the government. You want the privilege to work in a hospital, you better be willing to work 1-2 years at a 2/3 discounted rate.

Tech companies are hiring programmers without degrees. On the other hand, to stay competitive in pharmacy we have to obtain PGY1s and PGY2’s, soon maybe PGY3’s.

 

[johnpharm01]

I am a long term pharmacist looking for work now and have am considering going into computer science. Back when I was considering pharmacy I read the BLS job description and outlook as ONE source of information. It gave a lukewarm outlook. Looking back this is when the market was white hot. Want an accurate description of the market now? See the trends in retail: wag no raises, cutting 24 hour stores; Kroger cutting hours.
There is a lot to choosing the right profession. Pharmacy positions the main qualifier is simply is having the license although now hospitals are looking for hospital experience. Retail employers want inexperienced staff. In computer science, experience is main desirable trait, formal education secondary. In computer science there seems to be overlapping skill sets i.e web developer, programmer.
There is a lot more to it, but I have asked myself if I would do pharmacy again and I say yes, just differently. Pharmacists are passive types. Pharmacy offers little job growth. Pharmacists are not clinicians. Pharmacists provide an important service and are greatly undervalued. There are also a lot of bad pharmacists out there. But that was back then. Now no.

 

[DIPEA]

This is another real issue, companies (even the ones who could afford), don't want to pay a decent salary to get a good programmer. And depending on what kind of company it is, many companies have no idea the difference between a good programmer or a bad programmer, so they will just hire the cheapest one.

This is what the BLS says about computer programmers: Computer Programmers : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
Median pay
$80,000/yr, -7% job decline, -21,300 loss of jobs over past year

compare that to pharmacists:
Median pay
$122,000/yr, +6% job increase, +17,400 jobs over past year

Does the BLS purposely paint a rosy picture for job seekers? Perhaps. Certainly, the statistics don't "sound right" for pharmacists. Bbut just think how much worse the job market for computer programmers is, if the BLS is rosying up their picture.

Did I mention I came from San Francisco Bay Area? 80k a year? a fresh college CS grad make that money in high tech now days, and that is more or less internship money. Any decent programmers with a few years of experience under their belt make over 120k a year in the bay area, without factoring in bonuses and stock options. With stricter H1B visa regulation under Trump, aka less FOB indian programmers and outsourcing, the need for competent programmers would not go down, but will keep going up, since most high school kids in America tend to avoid hardcore math/statistics/engineering majors like plague these days, and many who didn't ended up switching their majors during college.

Please, don't rely everything on US Bureau Labor Statistics. Take their data with a grain of salt. Their statistics rarely reflected the reality, let alone predicting the future trend. Once upon a time, they reported big jump for chemical engineer & petroleum engineers, then boom, the global oil glut, a bunch of my friends who majored in petroleum engineering graduated that year but couldn't find a job.

 

[Slippers]

Run away, love...

Ask yourself what your true priorities are. If you aren't willing to move, sacrifice your personal life, you may not find what you are looking for.

Bingo.
I would seriously consider the implications of this. ESPECIALLY if you are totally against retail, because getting a hospital job or residency will very likely require re-location.

I think school, my personal life/loneliness, and the fear of not getting a job after graduation have all caused me to essentially hate my life

Don't. You're better than that.

Consider that a lot of the people recommending this to you as a smart move are actual pharmacists. That should tell you enough. It is definitely intimidating to change course, but you're only 20 going on 21... so that gives you PLENTY of time to change your mind if you want to. Oh, and I wouldn't recommend talking to your school professors either, some of them are sell-outs who will convince you to stay it through, even though they know your job prospects are bad. Either that, or they have their head stuck in the sand because they don't want to accept the truth. If you don't believe the people on here and are still on the fence, I would recommend that you speak to P4s currently going through the job search process or current pharmacists in your area (if you know anyone in these 2 categories). They will probably give you the most honest feedback.

Good luck....