7 years out and thinking about doing PGY1

[sgkman]

Been in retail for 5 years and currently working as an outpatient hospital pharmacy for 2 years. I am aware that being out of school can put me at a huge disadvantage (according to my research on google) but wanted to ask if I would have a good shot landing a residency.

Few things about me
BCPS certified last year and logged 20 hours of BPS-approved CEs already. This is to show that I have been trying to keep up with clinical knowledge. Would this offset any concern of being out of school for too long?
I am also trying to do a good amount of in-service to my colleagues to also put it on my CV
LOR is going to come from clinical pharmacists who work at the same hospital and from my boss.
CVS Pharmacy manager for 2 years that can hopefully be seen as a leadership experience
Published a research paper as a second author when I was in school, In 2015
My work experience should be considered as a significant amount of patient contacts but not sure how this would look.

I want to do residency because not to ''get out'' of my situation or anything but I realized the world of pharmacy is bigger than just retail/community and I want to do more. I want to be more involved in clinical. I like what I do but want more opportunities and grow.

I understand my info is limited but if you were RPD, would you invite me for an interview?
Does it matter if my interest is highly on Amb care instead of the inpatient side?

Any insight will be appreciated!!

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[mentos]

This is my insight.

 

[samven582]

Been in retail for 5 years and currently working as an outpatient hospital pharmacy for 2 years. I am aware that being out of school can put me at a huge disadvantage (according to my research on google) but wanted to ask if I would have a good shot landing a residency.

Few things about me
BCPS certified last year and logged 20 hours of BPS-approved CEs already. This is to show that I have been trying to keep up with clinical knowledge. Would this offset any concern of being out of school for too long?
I am also trying to do a good amount of in-service to my colleagues to also put it on my CV
LOR is going to come from clinical pharmacists who work at the same hospital and from my boss.
CVS Pharmacy manager for 2 years that can hopefully be seen as a leadership experience
Published a research paper as a second author when I was in school, In 2015
My work experience should be considered as a significant amount of patient contacts but not sure how this would look.

I want to do residency because not to ''get out'' of my situation or anything but I realized the world of pharmacy is bigger than just retail/community and I want to do more. I want to be more involved in clinical. I like what I do but want more opportunities and grow.

I understand my info is limited but if you were RPD, would you invite me for an interview?
Does it matter if my interest is highly on Amb care instead of the inpatient side?

Any insight will be appreciated!!

It's not worth it. Honesty, you should go back and do a master's in a program you're interested in

 

[sgkman]

Can you explain? Not worth it as in won't have a chance of getting into a residency program? or because It won't add any value to my career development. I am just trying to figure out if my head is stuck in the ass

 

[projektreverb]

I don’t think it’ll add any value. I feel like you’d be better off just waiting for an inpatient position to open up at your hospital and use that as a springboard.

I’d like to hear more about the masters idea tho.

 

[Rockinacoustic]

Have you exhausted all opportunities at your current hospital to work prn in a ambulatory or inpatient location?

Are you willing to move anywhere? Then you should first apply all over the country to every ambulatory or inpatient job posting that doesn't list residency as a requirement. You have BCPS which demonstrates minimum competency for most hiring managers.

 

[BenJammin]

Why would a BCPS certified pharmacist do a residency? They'll just throw your application in the trash where it belongs IMO

 

[wolingfeng]

Depending your geographical area and job market supply demand, recommend you just keep looking for a different job that can help you learning new skills.. at this point, the benefit/cost ratio for residency for you in my opinion is questionable. If you got the drive for learning, you can definitely do it without residency at this point and just leverage the skills you have for a new job. Obviously it may take some time and luck.

 

[Seriously Serious]

I agree with everyone, I think you are overqualified and the only thing you would get is an extra line on your CV. If you are willing to move away for residency training, you should be able to find an inpatient position.

 

[VA77]

This just goes to show how screwed up the residency programs are in thinking that everyone needs one to differentiate applicants. Going to be interesting to see what the next criteria will be or lack thereof as the pendulum swings back just as schools have lowered admission requirements. Yeap it will take time but it will happen.

 

[sgkman]

This just goes to show how screwed up the residency programs are in thinking that everyone needs one to differentiate applicants. Going to be interesting to see what the next criteria will be or lack thereof as the pendulum swings back just as schools have lowered admission requirements. Yeap it will take time but it will happen.

Trust me, I don't like where this is going but if I can't beat the system then I need to play their game.
After seeing so many clinical positions requiring pgy1 training, it makes me think that residency training must provide some really meaningful value and experiences that just cannot be matched with any of my 7 years of experience. But if pgy1 is really all it means to help sit for BCPS and pass, then yeah I am not interested. But I can't help but think my application will get overlooked for not doing a residency.

But then I also understand the employer's point of view. I have seen many pharmacists (considering where I practice) who are so out of touch with their clinical skills that it almost scares me.

 

[VA77]

Trust me, I don't like where this is going but if I can't beat the system then I need to play their game.
After seeing so many clinical positions requiring pgy1 training, it makes me think that residency training must provide some really meaningful value and experiences that just cannot be matched with any of my 7 years of experience. But if pgy1 is really all it means to help sit for BCPS and pass, then yeah I am not interested. But I can't help but think my application will get overlooked for not doing a residency.

But then I also understand the employer's point of view. I have seen many pharmacists (considering where I practice) who are so out of touch with their clinical skills that it almost scares me.

Yeah it's definitely a game right now and the only winners are the hospitals that get cheaper labor and the Board certs that get the fees. This is where we are in trying to differentiate candidates and one of the reasons I talk to prospective students that unless your willing to invest in years after graduating then look at other careers. Students tell me that they don't want to invest the time and money to go after a MD or DO with residencies and fellowships but from a time perspective this is where pharmacy is getting neck and neck without the ROI.

 

[mentos]

I work in a LTC and a bunch of new hires did residencies cause they couldn't find clinical hospital jobs. They are no different than the other Rphs here except they are annoying to work with.

 

[owlegrad]

I work in a LTC and a bunch of new hires did residencies cause they couldn't find clinical hospital jobs. They are no different than the other Rphs here except they are annoying to work with.

I keep waiting for this to happen where I work, 😆

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Been in retail for 5 years and currently working as an outpatient hospital pharmacy for 2 years. I am aware that being out of school can put me at a huge disadvantage (according to my research on google) but wanted to ask if I would have a good shot landing a residency.

Few things about me
BCPS certified last year and logged 20 hours of BPS-approved CEs already. This is to show that I have been trying to keep up with clinical knowledge. Would this offset any concern of being out of school for too long?
I am also trying to do a good amount of in-service to my colleagues to also put it on my CV
LOR is going to come from clinical pharmacists who work at the same hospital and from my boss.
CVS Pharmacy manager for 2 years that can hopefully be seen as a leadership experience
Published a research paper as a second author when I was in school, In 2015
My work experience should be considered as a significant amount of patient contacts but not sure how this would look.

I want to do residency because not to ''get out'' of my situation or anything but I realized the world of pharmacy is bigger than just retail/community and I want to do more. I want to be more involved in clinical. I like what I do but want more opportunities and grow.

I understand my info is limited but if you were RPD, would you invite me for an interview?
Does it matter if my interest is highly on Amb care instead of the inpatient side?

Any insight will be appreciated!!

We have PGY-2 graduates here working at Walmart

I work in a LTC and a bunch of new hires did residencies cause they couldn't find clinical hospital jobs. They are no different than the other Rphs here except they are annoying to work with.

LOL. You hit the nail on the head. I love my residency trained coworkers, but the way we attack problems is so wildly different.



As much as i hate retail, i think learning to problem solve under pressure 5 minutes before close on a Friday when a lady shows up with ER scripts for each of her 7 kids is vital

 

[sunnyandseventytwo]

Been in retail for 5 years and currently working as an outpatient hospital pharmacy for 2 years. I am aware that being out of school can put me at a huge disadvantage (according to my research on google) but wanted to ask if I would have a good shot landing a residency.

Few things about me
BCPS certified last year and logged 20 hours of BPS-approved CEs already. This is to show that I have been trying to keep up with clinical knowledge. Would this offset any concern of being out of school for too long?
I am also trying to do a good amount of in-service to my colleagues to also put it on my CV
LOR is going to come from clinical pharmacists who work at the same hospital and from my boss.
CVS Pharmacy manager for 2 years that can hopefully be seen as a leadership experience
Published a research paper as a second author when I was in school, In 2015
My work experience should be considered as a significant amount of patient contacts but not sure how this would look.

I want to do residency because not to ''get out'' of my situation or anything but I realized the world of pharmacy is bigger than just retail/community and I want to do more. I want to be more involved in clinical. I like what I do but want more opportunities and grow.

I understand my info is limited but if you were RPD, would you invite me for an interview?
Does it matter if my interest is highly on Amb care instead of the inpatient side?

Any insight will be appreciated!!

I can imagine being a new grad and needing your residency preceptors and/or director as a reference on job applications. But other than that, nobody is going to check to see if you actually did one. Just in case, I’d recommend creating a fake website and maybe setting up some fake contact info. Ooooh, better idea: find a closed hospital and claim that as your residency site. Oooooh, even better idea, you did a residency at Sacred Heart Hospital. If you ever get caught, at least it's funny.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

I can imagine being a new grad and needing your residency preceptors and/or director as a reference on job applications. But other than that, nobody is going to check to see if you actually did one. Just in case, I’d recommend creating a fake website and maybe setting up some fake contact info. Ooooh, better idea: find a closed hospital and claim that as your residency site. Oooooh, even better idea, you did a residency at Sacred Heart Hospital. If you ever get caught, at least it's funny.

"Sally here was one of the fi-hi-hiiiinest residents i had the pleasure of throwing to the wolves. Would recommend. 10/10"
-Dr. Cox

 

[mustang sally]

Ha ha, I am almost like you (except 10 years out and board certified). Every now and then I think I should go back and do a residency (non-traditional maybe?), but then I think no way, that's insane.

I'm probably just still bitter that I didn't match 10 years ago. I'm trying to find other ways to learn new things and expand my horizons.

 

[samven582]

We have PGY-2 graduates here working at Walmart



LOL. You hit the nail on the head. I love my residency trained coworkers, but the way we attack problems is so wildly different.



As much as i hate retail, i think learning to problem solve under pressure 5 minutes before close on a Friday when a lady shows up with ER scripts for each of her 7 kids is vital

I don't believe the PGY-2 part

 

[Deja]

I don't believe the PGY-2 part

maybe some savages that work per diem to make more money

 

[Dred Pirate]

I get the reason you are considering it - I have 15 years hospital experience, clin spec, all of the middle mgmt jazz, and I run across some hospitals that won't even consider me since I don't have a residency. But those are (hopefully) the minority. I do think your best bet is to try to pick up some per diem work at your current hospital. You may never get the "clinical job" or whatever your place calls it, but you can get an ops job, or a position in a hybrid model (which is my preferred model).

I know my hospital would hire you for an ops position. I would try all of those pathways before going down the residency path - I mean there really isn't a difference in 7 vs 9 years out at this point. Either way, just being out that long is going to make it an uphill battle.

Shotgun applications at hospitals before you decide to commit to a year of being underpaid without the opportunity for a job afterwards.

 

[letsquitpharm]

Why playing this never-ending rat-race pharmacy game? I routinely come across $75-95/hr R clinical programmer jobs...if you are willing to go as far as redoing residency, why not go back to school and try something much more lucrative and more in-demand?

 

[TranslationalRPh]

I understand your concern. I know PharmD/PhDs who did PharmD and/or PhD fellowships after completing both degrees. Imagine that time investment. You can always get more education. However, I would argue that I would much rather make a case to organizations to hire you for the same job as your residency trained colleagues despite your atypical background. That's what I have done. I have a PharmD, PhD and currently work in a job often held by a MD/PhD or MD (although there are exceptions). My line manager had to be convinced that a nonMD could do the job. Not every company will accept your logic, but I am not sure those are the kinds of places that you want to work anyway. If they can't realize all that you bring to the table because you lack a certificate and can't establish why said certificate is indispensable, then perhaps they don't deserve a strong candidate like you.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

I don't believe the PGY-2 part

I know one of the mods knows her IRL too, so have a big old ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ from me

 

[sgkman]

I understand your concern. I know PharmD/PhDs who did PharmD and/or PhD fellowships after completing both degrees. Imagine that time investment. You can always get more education. However, I would argue that I would much rather make a case to organizations to hire you for the same job as your residency trained colleagues despite your atypical background. That's what I have done. I have a PharmD, PhD and currently work in a job often held by a MD/PhD or MD (although there are exceptions). My line manager had to be convinced that a nonMD could do the job. Not every company will accept your logic, but I am not sure those are the kinds of places that you want to work anyway. If they can't realize all that you bring to the table because you lack a certificate and can't establish why said certificate is indispensable, then perhaps they don't deserve a strong candidate like you.

Thank you. This is really good to hear!!

 

[lane one]

Don't listen to the retail people on this one. They are speculating about a world they don't live in (no offense guys). I'll try to make a few points as concisely as I can...

1. Residencies are not pointless, you gain a tremendous amount of experience in the 1 yr grinder. Those of you who have said otherwise likely saw a PGY1 grad working in a setting that was not applicable to their training (like Walmart).
2. BCPS does not equal residency due to above experience; it's just a test.
3. As @Dred Pirate alluded to, not having a residency will follow you regardless of experience. It's amazing how dismissive of experience some health systems are.
4. You can absolutely get an inpatient job without a residency if you're willing to move to an undesirable location and work graveyard shift or PRN. BCPS on your resume, while weird, is going to set you apart from other retail applicants without inpatient experience.

In conclusion, @Dred Pirate put it best. Shotgun apply high and low for a year and you might be surprised what you find. To answer your original question, I do think you would get some interview invites if you were to apply. Target smaller, lesser established programs, even inaugural class if necessary. Your experience won't be as good and you'll probably miss out on experience in specific specialties and sub-specialties but you'll have that PGY1 on your CV for the rest of your career.

 

[gwarm01]

I don't believe the PGY-2 part

Never underestimate how unmotivated and aimless some people are. The student who claims to be passionate about pharmacy may not actually have the passion and drive to do whatever it takes to make their career what they want it to be. It's one thing to go through school, apply to residency (even PGY2) because you are being told to do that by your professors and preceptors. It's an entirely different thing to move 2,000 miles away from home to start your career at an academic hospital in another state.

I'm picturing this person - high performer in school, traditional values, probably applied to retail after not making the cut at local hospitals. Got married, bought a house, had a kid, and now they will stay put for the rest of their career.

4. You can absolutely get an inpatient job without a residency if you're willing to move to an undesirable location and work graveyard shift or PRN. BCPS on your resume, while weird, is going to set you apart from other retail applicants without inpatient experience.

This was basically my strategy and it paid off big time. Every job I've had since graduation has been a "unicorn" position, even my first crappy evening shift inpatient job was a real prize for a new grad with no PGY1. Having inpatient intern experience in the specialty helped, but you open a lot of doors when your geographic range is the entire country.

 

[nampa]

Don't listen to the retail people on this one. They are speculating about a world they don't live in (no offense guys). I'll try to make a few points as concisely as I can...

1. Residencies are not pointless, you gain a tremendous amount of experience in the 1 yr grinder. Those of you who have said otherwise likely saw a PGY1 grad working in a setting that was not applicable to their training (like Walmart).
2. BCPS does not equal residency due to above experience; it's just a test.
3. As @Dred Pirate alluded to, not having a residency will follow you regardless of experience. It's amazing how dismissive of experience some health systems are.
4. You can absolutely get an inpatient job without a residency if you're willing to move to an undesirable location and work graveyard shift or PRN. BCPS on your resume, while weird, is going to set you apart from other retail applicants without inpatient experience.

In conclusion, @Dred Pirate put it best. Shotgun apply high and low for a year and you might be surprised what you find. To answer your original question, I do think you would get some interview invites if you were to apply. Target smaller, lesser established programs, even inaugural class if necessary. Your experience won't be as good and you'll probably miss out on experience in specific specialties and sub-specialties but you'll have that PGY1 on your CV for the rest of your career.

Granted things deteriorate all the time, but the conventional wisdom was that three years experience equals residency (up from one year 7 years ago.), that a board cert (I assume in the venue one wants to work) equaled residency. There may be some N. E. academic hospitals that would relegate such people into staffing, but in the main, clinical is open to board or experience people.

 

[workingfarmer]

I would never try to do a residency after working 3 years full-time as RPh regardless of location and have been applying those 3 years. After 7 years go for it if you do not have any other obligations outside of your career progression. Be frank with the program and ask if they accept any students that are not recent graduates. Most hospital systems have an algorithm set in place that eliminates anyone that applies via phorcas that did not graduate within the last 1 or 2 years max but will not mention it on their residency web page or at ASHP conference etc.