Thinking about Navy HPSP? Think Again

[SquidDoc]

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If I realize anything, it's that we differ a bit in that I don't value judge the enlisted man as inately immature, irresponsible, or having of any other trait that makes them "at a different stage of life." The #1 thing I learned about people-life in the military is the capability of the average person. People of all colors and backgrounds can naturally excel when given opportunity and responsibility.

👍 Very well put!

 

[militarymd]

People of all colors and backgrounds can naturally excel when given opportunity and responsibility.

True, but the 18 year old enlisted will never be given the "opportunity and responsiblity" of a physician at their "stage in life"....They require more education and growth.....

 

[BKK]

There is much more to our nation's military than just the enlisted troop in the field pulling the trigger. In each branc, the warfighters are those individuals that engage the enemy(infantry, fighter pilot,etc). Our role as military health professionals is to support the warfighter the best that we can to help then bring the fight to the enemy. We are "serving our country" by doing our portion to support each military branches respective war fighter. You can apply that to all specialties (i.e., Peds support the warfighter by allowing him to be sure that his children are receiving good care while he is away. Civilian vs military care is another issue, but go with the analogy please.)

As a Air Force officer and health care, I have really enjoyed serving my country these past 9 years. Have I made the ultimate sacrifice for the country as so many young troops have already, no I have not. Do I risk death during my duty day on a regular basis, no (but I am stationed in Turkey with a definite increased tensions towards US personnel, however...).

Bottom line: if you sign up for a HPSP hitch, you are agreeing to serve as an Officer in the US military. If you do it just for the money and you don't like or don't get where you believe you should be, that is life. Do the time and make the best of it. The military needs to support its requirements. If that means primary care vs sub-specialty fields, that is what HPSP is meant to provide.

Thank you,

BKK

 

[Croooz]

True, but the 18 year old enlisted will never be given the "opportunity and responsiblity" of a physician at their "stage in life"....They require more education and growth.....

No opportunity perhaps not but responsibility, yes I had plenty. While I was not ultimately responsible for the medical care of the Marines in my charge I was responsible for them. For someone with Hospital Corpsman "A" school and EMT-basic that was huge. 18 year olds pulling the triggers on the those big ole tanks with all the injuries which follow. Medical officer was 30+ miles away...

I'm just not sure where or in what field an 18 year old would have to deal with all the things I dealt with. Calling a medevac for a heat stroked Marine while the tanks were out on maneuvers which shut down all training at 29 Palms till the bird landed at the hospital. I've got a number of experiences that no civilian 18 year old would ever have or in their wildest dreams think they would be expected to deal with.

I guess I'm having trouble grasping what the point is. An 18 year old enlisting versus a 22 year old HPSP student? Doesn't the newly minted physician get the same opportunity and responsibility as any other 22 year old med school graduate, whether civilian or military?

What is the point? Who has it worse? Who's better prepared? Who should know better?

The truth is you can not compare enlisted life versus commissioned unless you've been both. You can speculate based on what you saw or heard but unless you were once an E-n then you have no room to talk. Only a prior enlisted physician would be able to compare whether residency is as difficult as most physicians present it to be. The other truth is I was never encouraged to go to medical school by physicians who had never been enlisted. If anything I was told flat out "you are too old" at 24 years old. I, like the typical impressionable enlisted, believed this line of crap. I know different some 9 years later and is why I push so hard not to listen to what is said from anyone but do your own research.

Let's leave the argument of enlisted versus officer for those who have been both.

 

[militarymd]

No opportunity perhaps not but responsibility, yes I had plenty. While I was not ultimately responsible for the medical care of the Marines in my charge I was responsible for them. For someone with Hospital Corpsman "A" school and EMT-basic that was huge. 18 year olds pulling the triggers on the those big ole tanks with all the injuries which follow. Medical officer was 30+ miles away...

I'm just not sure where or in what field an 18 year old would have to deal with all the things I dealt with. Calling a medevac for a heat stroked Marine while the tanks were out on maneuvers which shut down all training at 29 Palms till the bird landed at the hospital. I've got a number of experiences that no civilian 18 year old would ever have or in their wildest dreams think they would be expected to deal with.

I guess I'm having trouble grasping what the point is. An 18 year old enlisting versus a 22 year old HPSP student? Doesn't the newly minted physician get the same opportunity and responsibility as any other 22 year old med school graduate, whether civilian or military?

What is the point? Who has it worse? Who's better prepared? Who should know better?

The truth is you can not compare enlisted life versus commissioned unless you've been both. You can speculate based on what you saw or heard but unless you were once an E-n then you have no room to talk. Only a prior enlisted physician would be able to compare whether residency is as difficult as most physicians present it to be. The other truth is I was never encouraged to go to medical school by physicians who had never been enlisted. If anything I was told flat out "you are too old" at 24 years old. I, like the typical impressionable enlisted, believed this line of crap. I know different some 9 years later and is why I push so hard not to listen to what is said from anyone but do your own research.

Let's leave the argument of enlisted versus officer for those who have been both.

You just reiterated my point. The opportunities offered an enlisted is much more than any Walmart Stock boy will ever get, but HPSP sucks compared to getting loans to go to medical school.

And you are right, you can't compare enlisting to being an officer.....that's what I have been saying all along.....The reason I'm saying this is people on this board is comparing enlisting to HPSP....no comparison....they are different things. You can' compare Apples to Oranges.....What I have been saying all along.

 

[Spang]

Wow, you miss a few days of a thread.......

What happened to the whole point of this discussion board, this forum, and this thread in particular, bashing the original poster and those like them for whining? Good god man, get ahold of yourselves. I can't even follow who's arguing with whom, about what.

Spang

 

[SquidDoc]

You just reiterated my point. The opportunities offered an enlisted is much more than any Walmart Stock boy will ever get, but HPSP sucks compared to getting loans to go to medical school.
.

I take it you have regrets? Or did you even take HPSP?

Why does HPSP suck compared to taking loans? I always assumed that having a life during medical school (financially, quality of life stuff) and ending up with whatever residency I choose (we all know that it easier to match for the more competitive specialties in the military, even though you need to wait a couple of years in the Navy) were all good things, and worth the tradeoff of not making top dollar compared to my civillian counterparts, at least for a while anyway. I bring up finances and quality of life because it appears that most here do not honor claims personal pride and patriotism by HPSP recipients...But I am prior service, and I do want to go back for more than simply money (yes, it was only Enlisted service...If only I would have taken that job at Wal Mart😉).

I do not think that HPSP sucks at all...I have a life during med school. I am happy. Many of my fellow classmates on loans are scrounging for money all of the time, and the modest stipend I get from HPSP makes sure the car and rent are paid for...less to worry about now. To each their own I guess.

 

[militarymd]

I take it you have regrets? Or did you even take HPSP?

Ahh...you must be new to the forum. Search my posts.

I took the HPSP. Served my 11 years. Resigned my commission, and in private practice now.....wishing every day that I could travel back in time to tell my poor, younger, more patriotic self....to suck it up and take loans like 99% of my classmates.

Loan route would have left me with more money, more time (5 years less of separation) with family, and less regrets.

Granted I wouldn't have some cool stories to tell....but they're just that..stories.

 

[SquidDoc]

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience...Did your recruiter lie to you and tell you that you would be able to go straight into your residency after school, followed by your 4 year payback at a stateside hospital of your choice, then resign? I wish that some recruiters would stop presenting this unrealistic scenario.

I have a friend that went ENT right after intership and a GMO tour (1 year) both at San Diego Naval Medical Center. Something like 15 years later, he is still at the Medical Center doing surgery every day, with no intention of ever taking another tour of duty elsewhere. He has two ribbons, and is a Commander (0-5). He works 8 or 9 hours a day, and comes home every night. While this sort of thing does happen, it is for the most part rare....Deployment is a way of life in the military. The term "Sempre Gumby" (or always flexible) applies daily, and that requires flexibility on the family's part as well. I truly hope that my future family, should I have the time to start one, is flexible for those first couple of years, and any other unforseen circumstances that pop up.

Are you really less patriotic following your experience with the military/HPSP, or are you just upset that it was not the best career move for you?

 

[militarymd]

Are you really less patriotic following your experience with the military/HPSP, or are you just upset that it was not the best career move for you?

I guess I'm not less patriotic. HPSP without a doubt was a bad carreer move for me.....and no doubt for any self-motivated hard working student who believes that hard work is rewarded and laziness is not.

The above statement does not apply if you have prior service and already have committment with the military.

Search my posts....They are good reads...especially for HPSP recruits who have only talked with recruiters.

 

[Cressidamed]

Ahh...you must be new to the forum. Search my posts.

I took the HPSP. Served my 11 years. Resigned my commission, and in private practice now.....wishing every day that I could travel back in time to tell my poor, younger, more patriotic self....to suck it up and take loans like 99% of my classmates.

Loan route would have left me with more money, more time (5 years less of separation) with family, and less regrets.

Granted I wouldn't have some cool stories to tell....but they're just that..stories.

I'm assuming that you had no other prior military experience? You know, most people need to keep in mind here that this whole conversation is about perspectives, expectations, and motives. To be specific, what kind of perspective do you have about military life - same for expectations. As for motives - I don't think anyone should do anything that involves a portion of your life for money alone - that includes going into medicine to begin with! Inevitably, you will end up unhappy. For those of you out there considering Navy HPSP, I would like to say that I doubt sincerely that I will regret my decision. I grew up military, love the lifestyle and the community and my family is in agreement with the decision. Sure I may spend some time away from them - I'm a mother of two - but I think it's worthwhile. How many hours are we planning on spending away from them going into medicine anyway? Ir's all about choices, people.
Truly though folks - it's great that everyone wants to make sure that others are dutifully warned about recruiters - getting good information to begin with is always best - but I want to tell others that there are those of us who are very happy with the decision. Don't shy everybody away, it IS a good deal for some.

 

[militarymd]

I'm assuming that you had no other prior military experience? You know, most people need to keep in mind here that this whole conversation is about perspectives, expectations, and motives. ......... Don't shy everybody away, it IS a good deal for some.

Recruiter in disguise???

You are touching on things I...we've covered in previous posts. Search my posts...read them...my perspectives, expectations, motives are already posted....bottom line, if you are interested in practicing medicine...and I mean medicine...not the BS that the military calls Military Medicine....HPSP is a bad idea.

Many of my colleagues...Prior SWO, NFO, Aviators, Submariners, all feel that same way I do about Military Medicine....now quite a few stick it out because they have so many years of service in already, but they all can't wait for the day they retire...enough said....because I've said this all before.

 

[r90t]

As always, x-mmd has well thought out and very valid points.

Maybe, just a thought, that the recruiters should look harder for in service applicants for both HPSP and USUHS, or guys with prior service wanting to return to the military. Then, having experienced the BOHICA that often comes with the job, it would be less of a gripe for these guys/gals. I'm sure they could find plenty of applicants at the service academies and ROTC, as well as the ad ranks. Most of the prior service, myself included, will not complain about the lifestyle (salary/deployment), and will will recognize bad leadership and gripe accordingly. Prior service guys are more often to stay longer, hopefully providing some sort of leadership, due to the retirement carrot dangling in front of them. Using myself as an example, I can get out of the navy (at the earliest) at the 22 year point counting prior service time, residency time and residency payback.

Navy medicine and the navy in general is actually encouraging people to leave before retirement to pay less pensions. How about a 4 year contract after residency and then out, no staying in for the HPSP'ers and leave the senior position to the USUHS people. This way, residency is done on an O-3 salary vs 38k/year, you get your training and the service squeezes their time out of you. Navy GME may be under the gun in the upcoming years as well.

Military spouses, which was the original poster of this long thread, do get the short end of a very crappy stick. Career oriented spouses have it hardest due to the constant moving the spouse has to do. They have to decide whether career or marriage comes first, and do what is right for them.

For the kids cruising the boards, at tip.... How can you tell if a recruiter is lying??

His mouth is moving.