This can't be real life.

[gookies]

I know SDN is pretty biased in some areas and isn't the entire pool of medical school applicants, but conversing with this one individual (she hasn't even heard of SDN) made the SDN population seem "average".

- Being published as an undergraduate is very common (she says she has 20 published papers and is going to be a junior)
- Having 20 published papers is feasible if you just put the effort into it (lol). Effort? More like luck getting into a lab that spews out data that quickly.
- Thinks everyone has the opportunity to get placed in a "good" lab (publishes often) as an undergraduate.
- Taking the MCAT in June is TOO late. She made it seem like the death sentence. (Told her submitting primary application to be verified before MCAT scores come in = still early)

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[hoihaie]

20 actual papers or including abstracts...? what kind of journals are those in? PLoS ONE??? 20???

 

[Mayday_]

Oh, you mean you don't have 20 publications? *sarcasm*

But really... "having 20 published papers is feasible"?

 

[Lya]

The number of publication is not a sole measure of an applicant.

 

[gookies]

@hoihaie, I'm guessing she meant actual published papers by her tone. Didn't bother asking, didn't care enough, or at all.
@Mayday_ , 4:19AM right now, has to be a dream.
@Lya , Wasn't really the point. Point was how this individual thought it was so common to be published as an undergraduate and made it seem like it was the norm.

 

[Lya]

Well, based on psychology and behavioral studies, her attitude is understandable. It's common for someone to think that others' experiences are just like his or hers. She just needs to work on her humility if she is too vocal about her own accomplishments to others.

At the end of the day, I wouldn't worry about it. Just swim in your own lane and let her swim in hers.

 

[gookies]

Well, based on psychology and behavioral studies, her attitude is understandable. It's common for someone to think that others' experiences are just like his or hers. She just needs to work on her humility if she is too vocal about her own accomplishments to others.

At the end of the day, I wouldn't worry about it. Just swim in your own lane and let her swim in hers.

Wouldn't say I'm worried at all. Just more amused how someone actually has this mindset and with what you just said, wants to be a physician being narrow-minded. I already know it's not the case, so nothing to be worried about in the first place.

 

[Narmerguy]

Wouldn't say I'm worried at all. Just more amused how someone actually has this mindset and with what you just said, wants to be a physician being narrow-minded. I already know it's not the case, so nothing to be worried about in the first place.

I'm not sure what you were expecting from us? Yeah, some people say absurd stuff both on SDN and elsewhere. She'll probably have difficulty interviewing if she is so clueless to reality.

For the most part, the proportion of out of touch hyperbole on SDN is actually pretty low, but everyone clings to it or just fixates on the people with crazy stats while ignoring all the reapplicants, nontrads, and people struggling to get just one or two acceptances.

 

[gookies]

I'm not sure what you were expecting from us? Yeah, some people say absurd stuff both on SDN and elsewhere. She'll probably have difficulty interviewing if she is so clueless to reality.

For the most part, the proportion of out of touch hyperbole on SDN is actually pretty low, but everyone clings to it or just fixates on the people with crazy stats while ignoring all the reapplicants, nontrads, and people struggling to get just one or two acceptances.

Not expecting anything? How can I expect anything from a forum I browse for free? I don't, because I don't deserve to. I said there were SOME areas. There is good information on here, you just have to ignore or filter the "bad" or inaccurate information, as all forums have. Also, I don't think it's pretty low. I am aware of the reapplicants, nontrads, I even browse the forum, even though I'm not one just to be informed of the situation if it happens to me. Then, most of the individuals that actually post their stats have pretty competitive scores and give a noobie the impression that it's either getting a 35 or the MCAT or go Caribbean. I also think people forget (due to this) that for example, a 28 MCAT is around the 80th percentile (the last time I checked), but individuals on here make it seem like a death sentence or apply strictly DO.

Also, since you're URM, you think the URM threads that are blown out of proportion are low? Each time one happens, it goes for several pages it seems. There are some individuals that just left SDN for awhile due to those, as mentioned in the Underrepresented in Healthcare sub-forum.

 

[Narmerguy]

Not expecting anything? How can I expect anything from a forum I browse for free? I don't, because I don't deserve to. I said there were SOME areas. There is good information on here, you just have to ignore or filter the "bad" or inaccurate information, as all forums have. Also, I don't think it's pretty low. I am aware of the reapplicants, nontrads, I even browse the forum, even though I'm not one just to be informed of the situation if it happens to me. Then, most of the individuals that actually post their stats have pretty competitive scores and give a noobie the impression that it's either getting a 35 or the MCAT or go Caribbean. I also think people forget (due to this) that for example, a 28 MCAT is around the 80th percentile (the last time I checked), but individuals on here make it seem like a death sentence or apply strictly DO.

Also, since you're URM, you think the URM threads that are blown out of proportion are low? Each time one happens, it goes for several pages it seems. There are some individuals that just left SDN for awhile due to those, as mentioned in the Underrepresented in Healthcare sub-forum.

Are you sure about this? First of all, there's nothing wrong with applying DO. Secondly, I don't think that's what is commonly said here, I think maybe one or two people would say it in a thread with 10 other responses that the applicant will have an uphill climb and should apply broadly. If you choose to focus on the minority then I can see why you might get the wrong impression.

A 28 MCAT is 67th percentile, but the median score for accepted students is a 30-31, which is 78th to 83rd percentile respectively. Your goal is not to be the other MCAT takers, it is to beat the other prospective competitive applicants. A 28 may be 67th percentile amongst all MCAT takers, but it is far below that amongst accepted medical students. Fewer than 50% of all applicants with a 3.7 GPA and 28 MCAT are accepted to any allopathic medical school. Generally when your chances of not getting rejected from everywhere are worse than a coin flip, that's not a positive situation. A quick browse through WAMC pulls up the following cases with 28 MCATs:

Applicant with 3.66 cGPA, 3.4sGPA, 28 MCAT, and the main response (from one of several adcoms that use this forum) is a list a MD schools that the applicant may be competitive at (no discouragement from applying).

Applicant with 3.79 cGPA, 3.75 sGPA, 28 MCAT, and the main response is to apply to low-tier and new MD schools and that the MCAT score will be a weakness.

Applicant with 3.5 cGPA, 3.5 sGPA, 28 MCAT, and the main response is helping tweak the list of MD schools that applicant should consider (including responses from several adcoms that offer advice on SDN) and advice on how best to improve the application to increase chances (retaking MCAT vs SMP, etc).

In fact, there's an entire thread devoted to people with 27-29 MCATs that have interviews to med schools (been around since 2006), where they post about their acceptances, rejections, MD vs DO, etc etc.

I am willing to believe that there are people who are excessively discouraging on SDN, but these people exist everywhere be it a premed advisor, friend, parent, or random professor. On the whole, SDN "common wisdom" is built from thousands of individual experiences with each person contributing their perspective. Many people who have successfully navigated the application system come back for years to offer guidance and wisdom, including both students and faculty who serve on admissions committees.

If you want to blast SDN for the URM threads, I'm in your corner. They are ridiculous and embarrassing. But if your commentary is on SDN being unrealistic and out of touch in their recommendations on applications, I don't buy it. There's nothing better.

 

[mmmcdowe]

PubMed her name and see if 20 publications pop up, I sincerely doubt that she has 20 publications unless they are school journal stuff.

 

[Espadaleader]

Taking the MCAT in June is not a good idea because you want to submit your application in June and you ideally want you scores at that time.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

Tell her to work in a real lab where it takes months upon months to get everything done because real research moves at the speed of glass. Nothing like having the rats that you've been raising for over a year to suddenly go missing on you.

 

[DermViser]

PubMed her name and see if 20 publications pop up, I sincerely doubt that she has 20 publications unless they are school journal stuff.

 

[ace12345]

This is silly. The one thing I will agree with is that SDN sometimes makes schools seem slightly more out of reach than perhaps they are. I've seen people that - because of pressure to diversify their school lists - end up applying to a bunch of schools on the lower end of the spectrum, getting interviews at all of them, and inevitably turning down interviews they were never really going to attend. This can also bring down their confidence with stronger schools in some cases. Really though, this isn't a huge issue. If anything, working with some of the applicants on SDN really encourages you to step your game up. I think it did for me during my undergrad.

 

[mct2762]

20 pubs in 3 year lollllll. does this person know how long it takes to get ONE pub?!

 

[shiftingmirage]

You can also try Scopus and do an author search to see how many pubs she has. I have a few that you won't find on Pubmed. Scopus is more inclusive than Pubmed.

 

[familyaerospace]

But really... "having 20 published papers is feasible"?

It's possible, just very unlikely. I have met people like that. Usually it's from being in a lab where the PI puts everyone on the paper.

All my publications have been sole authored so I don't have 20. I have 3 journal, 4 or 5 encyclopedia (I was invited), a book chapter, and 9 published conference papers. Most of that was in graduate school though and over 3 years for most of that. If I wasn't doing sole, I probably could have gotten more out.

 

[ExtremeProton]

All my publications have been sole authored so I don't have 20.

Dang you scared me until you mentioned you went to grad school.

 

[midnight0il]

She sounds like an idiot. Or at least someone who is very out of touch.

 

[ExtremeProton]

Honestly, in my opinion, there's no way that the lab is actually publishing quality papers if they published 20 in 2-3 years unless it's like a huge lab or something. Even so, there's no way she would actually be contributing to everyone's work in a significant way.

 

[deleted407021]

If legit, they may see her "look how big my academic pernus is" personality and say she's just PhD material. I've heard of that happening before.

If not legit, she's either daft for thinking her essay about brine shrimp in the school paper is a publication or she's a liar.

 

[ExtremeProton]

If legit, they may see her "look how big my academic pernus is" personality and say she's just PhD material. I've heard of that happening before.

If not legit, she's either daft for thinking her essay about brine shrimp in the school paper is a publication or she's a lier.

Wow that's pretty sexist bro.

 

[deleted407021]

Wow that's pretty sexist bro.

Elaborate, please.

 

[familyaerospace]

Dang you scared me until you mentioned you went to grad school.

The first drafts of two of my papers were written in undergrad but were majorly revamped when I was bored in graduate school and inbetween research papers.

I know several undergrads that had a similar amount of publications that I did, but did it in college. I was always envious of them when I was in college but then I realized most of them knew nothing out of their field of study (as in one person never took anything outside of their one major) and none of them were accepted to graduate school at all. ;-)

 

[Pacna]

Elaborate, please.

Because you made a reference to shrimp and "pernus" (which Google reveals "Pernús is one of 13 parishes in the Colunga municipality") in the same post. Be a little more sensitive.

 

[deleted407021]

Because you made a reference to shrimp and "pernus" (which Google reveals "Pernús is one of 13 parishes in the Colunga municipality") in the same post. Be a little more sensitive.

I'll be sure to keep my raging sexism to a low rumble.

20 pubs is ridiculous. Most professors I know don't have a hand in that many papers.

 

[moop]

Also remember that it may not be basic science research she's talking about. This comes as big news to premeds at times, but not all premeds just blindly do bench work in college. She's almost definitely still bragging by a long shot, but fields like health services research can move extremely fast if the research group knows what it's doing and has full-time statisticians to iron out the nitty gritties. 20 is ridiculous, but something like 7-10 from an HSR group if she got started early and was put on all the group pubs (>6 people), it's not out of the question.

 

[moop]

Honestly, in my opinion, there's no way that the lab is actually publishing quality papers if they published 20 in 2-3 years unless it's like a huge lab or something. Even so, there's no way she would actually be contributing to everyone's work in a significant way.

Disagree. These labs exist. Not dime a dozen, but they're to be found at many Ivy-level institutions.

 

[terp720]

I know SDN is pretty biased in some areas and isn't the entire pool of medical school applicants, but conversing with this one individual (she hasn't even heard of SDN) made the SDN population seem "average".

- Being published as an undergraduate is very common (she says she has 20 published papers and is going to be a junior)
- Having 20 published papers is feasible if you just put the effort into it (lol). Effort? More like luck getting into a lab that spews out data that quickly.
- Thinks everyone has the opportunity to get placed in a "good" lab (publishes often) as an undergraduate.
- Taking the MCAT in June is TOO late. She made it seem like the death sentence. (Told her submitting primary application to be verified before MCAT scores come in = still early)

well the adcoms on SDN have said that #1 is not true. So unless your friend is in medical school admissions and knows a ton about UG students everywhere, not sure how she would know outside of her own lab.

As for the MCAT thing, I don't think it's a death sentence.. but you are taking some risk in that you're applying without knowing your MCAT score. But you should know a general range of where you are scoring and be comfortable with that, and hopefully the actual test will reflect that score.

 

[Goro]

There is a specific descriptor for the person you were talking to: Liar.

Ask her for the citations of the 20 publications.

It's hard enough for grad students and post-docs to get publications. A decent PI is generally expected to have only 2-3 year!

So, no, SDN is NOT reflective of the pre-med pool.

I know SDN is pretty biased in some areas and isn't the entire pool of medical school applicants, but conversing with this one individual (she hasn't even heard of SDN) made the SDN population seem "average".

- Being published as an undergraduate is very common (she says she has 20 published papers and is going to be a junior)
- Having 20 published papers is feasible if you just put the effort into it (lol). Effort? More like luck getting into a lab that spews out data that quickly.
- Thinks everyone has the opportunity to get placed in a "good" lab (publishes often) as an undergraduate.
- Taking the MCAT in June is TOO late. She made it seem like the death sentence. (Told her submitting primary application to be verified before MCAT scores come in = still early)

 

[Boolean]

There is a specific descriptor for the person you were talking to: Liar.

Ask her for the citations of the 20 publications.

It's hard enough for grad students and post-docs to get publications. A decent PI is generally expected to have only 2-3 year!

So, no, SDN is NOT reflective of the pre-med pool.

I think our over-neuroticism alone is indicative of this

 

[gaeko25]

1) I occasionally find emails in my spam box from "Totally Reputable Not-a-scam International Symposium for Research Sciences" that accept pretty much any abstract regarding any topic. All you have to do is pay something like $120 and they will "publish" your submission in their journals which look more like newsletters.

2) To echo the sentiment of others here, I know a girl who was bragging about how she barely had to work to get a "3.9 GPA, 38 MCAT, and multiple publications" at a reputable school at least according to her. She applied broadly this past cycle and which medical school is she headed to?

None. She's going to be working as a scribe for minimum wage and volunteering at a free clinic like the rest of us lowly pre-meds.

 

[zhopv10]

Taking the MCAT in June is no death sentence either depending on what time you take it it has zero effect on your application. I took mine June 20th and it didn't affect anything (I had a fine cycle and it never became an issue). You can turn your application in for verification the firs day and then upload ur score as soon as you receive them.

 

[abn632]

We have an online system at work for employees to establish goals and update their progress toward their goals; there are also sections for resume updates, continuing education, etc., plus a section for publications, the intent being for publications directly related to work. This is helpful for me when I do quarterly and annual performance reviews.

During a recent employee performance review, I was very curious about an employee's MANY publications since I work in a field that doesn't really publish a lot. He enthusiastically explained to me how he is a contributor to a well-known outdoors activities website and regularly publishes "How To" and "DIY" articles/blog about camping and hiking on the website.

Needless to say, I was unimpressed.

I suspect your friend is full of b.s. and I wouldn't let it get to your head. Work hard, be genuine and you'll have options in the future.

 

[WillburCobb]

Although very unlikely, 20 pubs is still possible, though it's highly contingent on the PI, overall lab, discipline, and area of research within that discipline. I worked in the social psych lab of a PI who is a leader in his field. The lab usually turned out 5-10 pubs a year to well respected journals in the field. However, he was fairly selective, and reasonably so, about giving authorship. Some clinical and Neuro labs at my school had a fairly similar rate of publications and everyone in the lab would get thrown on as an author. By no means does this mean that psych or social psych research is easy. As I said previously it's highly contingent on the PI and specific area of research. None the less, unless your friend is including poster presentations as well, I strongly suspect a liar.

 

[gookies]

Are you sure about this? First of all, there's nothing wrong with applying DO. Secondly, I don't think that's what is commonly said here, I think maybe one or two people would say it in a thread with 10 other responses that the applicant will have an uphill climb and should apply broadly. If you choose to focus on the minority then I can see why you might get the wrong impression.

A 28 MCAT is 67th percentile, but the median score for accepted students is a 30-31, which is 78th to 83rd percentile respectively. Your goal is not to be the other MCAT takers, it is to beat the other prospective competitive applicants. A 28 may be 67th percentile amongst all MCAT takers, but it is far below that amongst accepted medical students. Fewer than 50% of all applicants with a 3.7 GPA and 28 MCAT are accepted to any allopathic medical school. Generally when your chances of not getting rejected from everywhere are worse than a coin flip, that's not a positive situation. A quick browse through WAMC pulls up the following cases with 28 MCATs:

Applicant with 3.66 cGPA, 3.4sGPA, 28 MCAT, and the main response (from one of several adcoms that use this forum) is a list a MD schools that the applicant may be competitive at (no discouragement from applying).

Applicant with 3.79 cGPA, 3.75 sGPA, 28 MCAT, and the main response is to apply to low-tier and new MD schools and that the MCAT score will be a weakness.

Applicant with 3.5 cGPA, 3.5 sGPA, 28 MCAT, and the main response is helping tweak the list of MD schools that applicant should consider (including responses from several adcoms that offer advice on SDN) and advice on how best to improve the application to increase chances (retaking MCAT vs SMP, etc).

In fact, there's an entire thread devoted to people with 27-29 MCATs that have interviews to med schools (been around since 2006), where they post about their acceptances, rejections, MD vs DO, etc etc.

I am willing to believe that there are people who are excessively discouraging on SDN, but these people exist everywhere be it a premed advisor, friend, parent, or random professor. On the whole, SDN "common wisdom" is built from thousands of individual experiences with each person contributing their perspective. Many people who have successfully navigated the application system come back for years to offer guidance and wisdom, including both students and faculty who serve on admissions committees.

If you want to blast SDN for the URM threads, I'm in your corner. They are ridiculous and embarrassing. But if your commentary is on SDN being unrealistic and out of touch in their recommendations on applications, I don't buy it. There's nothing better.

There are obviously reputable members that give solid advice, but that's not what the majority of this forum is made of. Also, I guessed I check it awhile ago, but you bring up another point with that 27-29 MCAT thread. You just made it seem like a death sentence when you stated you basically have a 50/50 chance of being rejected (actually worse than this). Then, you bring up this thread about individuals who actually got into at least one. Does that mean this thread just gives individuals false hope and not make them realize the actual situation of getting in (given the data you posted and what you suggested), since the individuals that do post in there are usually the ones that get ultimately accepted? Also, as you well know, there are other factors that come into play. Those individuals that do post in there and ultimately get accepted have generally mentioned it's not always about the scores (in their case of getting accepted). They believe they brought something else to the table and that counted for more. Then, there are individuals that might have the competitive scores, but lack in other areas. Ex. ADCOMs would not recommend applying to a research heavy school when the applicant has little to no research experience, but has the competitive stats to get in.

As for the main point of this thread, yeah, I know what she said was PRETTY inaccurate. She's not a friend, just a random person I asked advice from, since she said her cousins were in medical school and her parents are physicians. Guessing she has this "beyond gunner" mentality due to their influence on her. It was just funny to me how she made it seem every undergraduate should be published before medical school and if you want 20+ published papers in a year, you'll get it if you tried your best. Yeah, that's not reality at all. Especially with what @Goro said about decent PIs publish 2-3 times a year. If I stumble upon her again, I'll ask to see what journals she published in. It'll either be the one in school journals or random ones or actually scientific journals.

 

[La Presse]

It's not uncommon to flex several publications in a clinical lab where even pilot studies are sometimes published. Don't get me started about basic science.....

I doubt that's her case though. She probably "published" an abstract of her poster in 20 conference journals, but even then, funding for 20 conferences? If I were to consider that, then maybe she's presenting the same work at multiple places, maybe has a few open access undergraduate journals. But wait.......that means she's not presenting novel research. You kind of have to consider that, the quality of work she's done is probably very poor. And by poor, I mean imapct factros of 1.15243378

Ok, I'm rambling. Time to stop. She's lying, she's doing clinical research or she's presented the same work (or pieces of it) at multiple conferences. lol she's publishing pamphlets.

 

[Fedaykin]

Oh, you mean you don't have 20 publications? *sarcasm*

But really... "having 20 published papers is feasible"?

Surely:

• Everybody gets named on every paper.
• PI is breaking up research into LPUs.
• Publications aren't going in high-impact journals.
• Count includes putting something in conference proceedings, submission of an abstract, a letter, etc.

 

[youmed]

It isn't real life.

 

[bioman137]

on the topic of 20 publications, there are "impact factor" levels meaning if they are just cranking out random data they are probably publishing in some obscure journal the majority of the time. In my opinion quality over quantity, I would rather have 3 well written journals that have a high impact than 20 that do not mean anything besides she has 20 paper published

 

[sobored]

She does not have 20 papers. Unless she did a western blot for everyone in her building and they all put her in their papers, she's full of it.

 

[Xenoblade]

I'll be sure to keep my raging sexism to a low rumble.

20 pubs is ridiculous. Most professors I know don't have a hand in that many papers.

I have about 10 "pubs", posters, presentations, and talks in 3 years. It's not impossible.

 

[sobored]

I have about 10 "pubs", posters, presentations, and talks in 3 years. It's not impossible.

You have 10 peer-reviewed publications in scientific journals? Or 10 combined of all those things you listed? If the former, please explain to me how you were able to make a meaningful enough contribution to 10 projects to warrant publication as a junior undergrad.

 

[Xenoblade]

You have 10 peer-reviewed publications in scientific journals? Or 10 combined of all those things you listed? If the former, please explain to me how you were able to make a meaningful enough contribution to 10 projects to warrant publication as a junior undergrad.

~ 10 of the latter.

I ran my own project.

Got 1 pub (main author) with abstract (counts as 2)
4 posters
2 talks

I forgot what else counts as "pubs". I would have gone md/phd route, but my mcat didn't break 40.
Got 3 grants too.

Trust me, med schools don't care about these things. They didn't give me the time of day. Not sitting on an MD acceptance right now.

I also edited my PI's paper (grammar wasn't his strong suit), but got no credit due to the politics of the game.

 

[terp720]

~ 10 of the latter.

I ran my own project.

Got 1 pub (main author) with abstract (counts as 2)
4 posters
2 talks

I forgot what else counts as "pubs". I would have gone md/phd route, but my mcat didn't break 40.
Got 3 grants too.

Trust me, med schools don't care about these things. They didn't give me the time of day. Not sitting on an MD acceptance right now.

I also edited my PI's paper (grammar wasn't his strong suit), but got no credit due to the politics of the game.

wasn't my experience... almost all my interviewers brought up my publications.

 

[Xenoblade]

wasn't my experience... almost all my interviewers brought up my publications.

I didn't do medical research. I did something else really cool that I loved and impacts us with every breath that we take (literally), but most people just don't understand/undervalue it because it isn't medical research. I get blank stares all the time.

We are a very green university (you have heard of us if you follow the new news with Toyota )

 

[terp720]

I didn't do medical research. I did something else really cool that I loved and impacts us with every breath that we take (literally), but most people just don't understand/undervalue it because it isn't medical research. I get blank stares all the time.

We are a very green university (you have heard of us if you follow the new news with Toyota )

yeahh a lot of my research was in animal behavior. some in image processing. didn't really matter what the topic was.

 

[sat0ri]

Is this real life? Is this reality?

Just another poster saying it's not impossible. For instance, I'm in a prolific (actually, on of the most prolific) chemistry labs, where turn-around time is pretty quick--about as quick as you can set up reactions. The PI has the grad students publish every semester, so coupled with early involvement, and maybe being in a second lab and summer internships, 20 isn't impossible, but maybe close to the upper limit.

 

[Xenoblade]

yeahh a lot of my research was in animal behavior. some in image processing. didn't really matter what the topic was.

See, this is where I disagree with people.

The topic does matter. If adcom can't look at it and just "get it", then your research is of little value to them. My research has very real impacts (global oxygen supply). But it is a little abstract, and therefore people just don't get it, which leads to people undervaluing the hard work you have done.

Following passion =\= success for medical school. I wish someone told me this.