This guy is one of us?

[bjjmike69]

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This ... doesn't surprise me in the least.



Run along now, go play oookie mouth.

OK that may have been a little hyperbolic on my part. It rings true for myself, but probably not the majority of my social circle 😂. My apologies, got on a roll there.

 

[aafisahar]

vector2 would say no.

In all honesty I am early 30s, and every single person I spend the most time with is also not vaccinated. My girlfriend isn’t vaccinated. We are NOT anti-vax, we are totally open to getting the vaccine. I am “college-educated” in the sciences as the Democrats like to say, and would also consider myself smarter than the average person (the same of which goes for most of my friend group). I try to stay open-minded, read studies and papers (granted a lot are on arxiv) and consider myself well-read on both sides of the argument. All of us who haven’t been infected want to get infected to achieve natural immunity due to the death rate. I myself have had likely delta-variant COVID recently.

The fact is right now you can find arguments that are seemingly credible for both sides. When discussing natural immunity vs vaccine immunity the information gets even murkier.

So when it comes to a new class of vaccine that we largely do not have a lot of data on human results, the creator of the mRNA vaccine (albeit the very cooky type vector2 immediately thinks of when a person says they aren’t vaccinated) saying it’s dangerous, the terrible media on both sides, among other things, it’s my right to say: “I want to wait a little bit longer and make sure it is safe.” Granted, the mRNA creator bit may be fake news, as I do not know all of his history.

If you all want the type of people like me to get vaccinated, then do not use vector2 as your model for social interaction. Demonizing a group of people and being a prick only pushes them away. Stop making assumptions about how educated someone is, what their political background is, and which religion they consider to be apart of and treat them like an actual person that may be misinformed.

lolllllllll

not an anti-vax, but talks like one, walks like one.....

fwiw, a few weeks ago, I sent two people <30 to LTACHs to live out the rest of their miserable life with a trach/peg. You bet your ass they wish they got vaccinated. I don't mean miserable as in worthless, I mean suffering. Critical illness myopathy, strokes, heart failure, vent dependence. Their life is ****ed because they thought they knew better than people who've been doing this **** for decades and physicians who've seen the ravages over the past 18 months.

you are the same people who took offense at wolfenstein when it came out a few years ago because it was a game about shooting nazis.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

If a group of people are willing to believe some widely subscribed fantasy, it’s not surprising they can believe other widely held fantasies too.

Which group of people are you referring to?

 

[deleted87051]

Which group of people are you referring to?

Religious people in general.

 

[Southpaw]

vector 2 I’m just a lurker here but pretty much you’re always posting and being a dick. Whether it’s making fun of Republicans / Evangelicals (I mean, let’s not kid ourselves here, you’d also make fun of a Catholic) or being it’s your way or the highway on a debate, you’re just a prick with the biggest ego I’ve ever seen on an internet forum. On another thread someone made the same claim about you (being a dick) so I wanted to give an objective 3rd party opinion. Take that as you may, I will not be responding to you

Dude, it's your opinion. It's the total opposite of something objective.

 

[Southpaw]

vector2 would say no.

In all honesty I am early 30s, and every single person I spend the most time with is also not vaccinated. My girlfriend isn’t vaccinated. We are NOT anti-vax, we are totally open to getting the vaccine. I am “college-educated” in the sciences as the Democrats like to say, and would also consider myself smarter than the average person (the same of which goes for most of my friend group). I try to stay open-minded, read studies and papers (granted a lot are on arxiv) and consider myself well-read on both sides of the argument. All of us who haven’t been infected want to get infected to achieve natural immunity due to the death rate. I myself have had likely delta-variant COVID recently.

The fact is right now you can find arguments that are seemingly credible for both sides. When discussing natural immunity vs vaccine immunity the information gets even murkier.

So when it comes to a new class of vaccine that we largely do not have a lot of data on human results, the creator of the mRNA vaccine (albeit the very cooky type vector2 immediately thinks of when a person says they aren’t vaccinated) saying it’s dangerous, the terrible media on both sides, among other things, it’s my right to say: “I want to wait a little bit longer and make sure it is safe.” Granted, the mRNA creator bit may be fake news, as I do not know all of his history.

If you all want the type of people like me to get vaccinated, then do not use vector2 as your model for social interaction. Demonizing a group of people and being a prick only pushes them away. Stop making assumptions about how educated someone is, what their political background is, and which religion they consider to be apart of and treat them like an actual person that may be misinformed.

Why haven't you been vaccinated? Just curious why someone who is educated and not anti-vax decided to gamble with COVID vs gambling with the vaccine?

 

[Southpaw]

Meh I mean I honestly don’t dislike you but I don’t think you are “right” as often as you think you are. You chose the adjectives. One can take five minutes to sift through your posts and come to the conclusion that you don’t differentiate most -possibly all -conservatives from the Uber crazy antivaxxers. You certainly haven’t posted anything that would make one think otherwise.

Again, this group smaller than you would likely admit and as far as i can tell varies wildly depending on the poll. But you can cherry pick a couple crazy tweets and add that to the “evidence”. you spend so much time googling these fools you could probably identify them with a Bristol stool chart.

Again, antivaccine mandate is not the same as antivaccine. It’s probably healthy to have a certain degree of skepticism as a general rule in life. Oh and probably most importantly White people that vote red aren’t the enemy.

The focus should probably be on engaging those still on the fence and not demonizing them.

I’m not that vested in this thread. Just found your adjectives intriguing… and par for your course.

Your posts are all well and good (anti-mandate isn't anti-vax) but this pain dude politician from bum**** Kansas is abso****inglutely crazy. And there's not much more to say about it. If you think essential oils are the key at this point and you want that word spread to your constituents, all while talking down vaccination, knowing what we all know, then you are ****ing crazy. Let's leave personal opinions on @vector2 out of this. I for one am thankful that some people are motivated enough, and care enough, to call crazy people crazy. They deserve it.

 

[deleted87051]

Why haven't you been vaccinated? Just curious why someone who is educated and not anti-vax decided to gamble with COVID vs gambling with the vaccine?

It may be unrelated but there is actually a pretty strong libertarian antivax/anti-shutdown streak in the BJJ community. Lots of gyms held underground workouts throughout the pandemic.

 

[vector2]

vector2 would say no.

In all honesty I am early 30s, and every single person I spend the most time with is also not vaccinated. My girlfriend isn’t vaccinated. We are NOT anti-vax, we are totally open to getting the vaccine. I am “college-educated” in the sciences as the Democrats like to say, and would also consider myself smarter than the average person (the same of which goes for most of my friend group). I try to stay open-minded, read studies and papers (granted a lot are on arxiv) and consider myself well-read on both sides of the argument. All of us who haven’t been infected want to get infected to achieve natural immunity due to the death rate. I myself have had likely delta-variant COVID recently.

The fact is right now you can find arguments that are seemingly credible for both sides. When discussing natural immunity vs vaccine immunity the information gets even murkier.

So when it comes to a new class of vaccine that we largely do not have a lot of data on human results, the creator of the mRNA vaccine (albeit the very cooky type vector2 immediately thinks of when a person says they aren’t vaccinated) saying it’s dangerous, the terrible media on both sides, among other things, it’s my right to say: “I want to wait a little bit longer and make sure it is safe.” Granted, the mRNA creator bit may be fake news, as I do not know all of his history.

If you all want the type of people like me to get vaccinated, then do not use vector2 as your model for social interaction. Demonizing a group of people and being a prick only pushes them away. Stop making assumptions about how educated someone is, what their political background is, and which religion they consider to be apart of and treat them like an actual person that may be misinformed.

How many covid pts in the ICU have you taken care of? How many do you think I, as a critical care trained physician in a top 10 per capita deep red covid state, have taken care of?

Do us a favor and please stay the flying fk out of medicine. Your idea that you think as a layman that you have a sufficient grasp of the literature to argue against 98% of physicians and scientists, your unvaccinated status, your desire to get natural immunity, and your overall "passive aggressively talk about someone in the third person" dbaggery indicate you're doing just fine in the high-powered finance world.

 

[deleted126335]

How many covid pts in the ICU have you taken care of? How many do you think I, as a critical care trained physician in a top 10 per capita deep red covid state, have taken care of?

Do us a favor and please stay the flying fk out of medicine. Your idea that you think as a layman that you have a sufficient grasp of the literature to argue against 98% of physicians and scientists, your unvaccinated status, your desire to get natural immunity, and your overall "passive aggressively talk about someone in the third person" dbaggery indicate you're doing just fine in the high-powered finance world.

In fairness, his responses are about on par with most of the posts about finance/investing in this forum.

 

[cchoukal]

All of us who haven’t been infected want to get infected to achieve natural immunity due to the death rate. I myself have had likely delta-variant COVID recently.

Did I read that right? The death rate of this infection is concerning to you, so you'd like natural immunity to it, but to get natural immunity you want to get the infection. Ya know, the infection that has a death rate that concerns you enough to want to have immunity to it... That can't be what you meant, can it?

 

[vector2]

In fairness, his responses are about on par with most of the posts about finance/investing in this forum.

Just the other day I was emailing Warren Buffet about some of my stock and financial theories. I was like “Warren, listen here. I’m ‘college-educated’ as we Democrats like to say, and would also consider myself smarter than the average person. I know there’s a lot of so-called theories floating around from so-called economists and financial experts that steady, monthly investment in a broadly diversified portfolio of stocks is the best way to make money in the long term, but I disagree. I’m open to the idea that putting a regularly recurring amount in VTI could make me wealthy, and of course you’re worth a hundred billion dollars, but on the other hand………have you heard of GameStop, ticker: GME?”

He did reply, but only to call me an misinformed dingus. What a real prick.

 

[deleted126335]

Just the other day I was emailing Warren Buffet about some of my stock and financial theories. I was like “Warren, listen here. I’m ‘college-educated’ as we Democrats like to say, and would also consider myself smarter than the average person. I know there’s a lot of so-called theories floating around from so-called economists and financial experts that steady, monthly investment in a broadly diversified portfolio of stocks is the best way to make money in the long term, but I disagree. I’m open to the idea that putting a regularly recurring amount in VTI could make me wealthy, and of course you’re worth a hundred billion dollars, but on the other hand………have you heard of GameStop, ticker: GME?”

He did reply, but only to call me an misinformed dingus. What a real prick.

Well, you could be a little more nuanced in many of your posts.😉

 

[PainDrain]

Well, you could be a little more nuanced in many of your posts.😉

That was brilliant.

 

[IMGASMD]

the four little words that placed us where we are “do your own research”.

I guess “real” clinical and basic science research carry the same credence as dr. Google, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, twitch, and what else the new darling is around the block.

 

[IMGASMD]

Me me me, I want to play along too!!


In all honesty I am early 30s, and every single person I spend the most time with is also not vaccinated. My girlfriend isn’t vaccinated. We are NOT anti-vax, we are totally open to getting the vaccine. I am “college-educated” in the sciences as the Democrats like to say, and would also consider myself smarter than the average person (the same of which goes for most of my friend group).

Resp: Totally open? Under what conditions? When FDA approve all the vaccines? When there has been evidence that it’s safe? When they start vaccinating kids without anyone dying? Wait another 18 years to see there aren’t any sequelae from the evil vaccine?


I try to stay open-minded, read studies and papers (granted a lot are on arxiv) and consider myself well-read on both sides of the argument.

Resp: Both sides eh? Go to “any” icu’s right now and see. There is your real world evidence. In our system, 30 icu beds taken by covid patients. 3 are vaccinated. The other 27, nope. Probably did their own research, and read their own journals and came to their own conclusions.


All of us who haven’t been infected want to get infected to achieve natural immunity due to the death rate. I myself have had likely delta-variant COVID recently.

Resp: Did you get tested? Don’t you want to know if you’re part of the solution by helping humanity to reach natural herd immunity? And prove to us how smart you really are?! I would love personally thank you for your sacrifice to get infected and better than humanity.

The fact is right now you can find arguments that are seemingly credible for both sides. When discussing natural immunity vs vaccine immunity the information gets even murkier.

Resp: Yes. And that’s how polio, smallpox and other childhood diseases are eliminated. And dumb people who brought some of these devastating disease back by being anti-vax.


So when it comes to a new class of vaccine that we largely do not have a lot of data on human results, the creator of the mRNA vaccine (albeit the very cooky type vector2 immediately thinks of when a person says they aren’t vaccinated) saying it’s dangerous, the terrible media on both sides, among other things, it’s my right to say: “I want to wait a little bit longer and make sure it is safe.” Granted, the mRNA creator bit may be fake news, as I do not know all of his history.

Resp: Then take j&j, if you don’t trust new technology.

If you all want the type of people like me to get vaccinated, then do not use vector2 as your model for social interaction.

Resp: Who will you listen? Isn’t action speak louder than words? All the politicians who are pushing some of these narratives, are drum roll please, vaccinated! Those who did not, are dead.

Demonizing a group of people and being a prick only pushes them away. Stop making assumptions about how educated someone is, what their political background is, and which religion they consider to be apart of and treat them like an actual person that may be misinformed.

Resp: Yes. Amen. Let me embrace you my brudder. After I just get called to icu to intubate yet another patient, who probably will not make it. Oh, and no one told me he was covid positive, so I wasn’t able to grab by carefully stored away N95. I thought I would be retiring it, 9 months after vaccine is ready, but no, we are in the middle of another surge.
So let me wait another 5 days to embrace you, while I wonder if I would give it to my 8 patients today, 6 patients yesterday, 4 patients the day before that, 6 the day before that. And hoping that their loved ones won’t get sick either. But you wouldn’t know nor care about that, since there are both sides of this argument right?
Please, please find me one practicing icu physician that support your view, so I will know how smart you really are.

 

[DocMcCoy]

Your posts are all well and good (anti-mandate isn't anti-vax) but this pain dude politician from bum**** Kansas is abso****inglutely crazy. And there's not much more to say about it. If you think essential oils are the key at this point and you want that word spread to your constituents, all while talking down vaccination, knowing what we all know, then you are ****ing crazy. Let's leave personal opinions on @vector2 out of this. I for one am thankful that some people are motivated enough, and care enough, to call crazy people crazy. They deserve it.

To what end though?

it makes you feel better I guess.

or now we have to tar and feather the guy?

dox him, report him to the state board try to get his license revoked?

im not sure what the utility of threads like this are.

I actually think he clarified his comments adequately. Not that he had to. What I saw was another thread headed into an anti-right or anti-religion or anti-capitalism tail spin. Most people on here are pretty sharp, and know exactly what they are trying to say with the words they use. When my eyes start to bleed from reading what looks like is going to devolve into another dogsh*t hit piece Twitter filled thread I think it is fair to try to jump in.

Anyway, I still feel people should be able to say what ever they want about the vaccine provided at the end of the day they begrudgingly get the shot in the arm. But ya, when you say no way to the shot, admittedly you tilted toward the crazy end of the spectrum

 

[deleted126335]

That was brilliant.

I do have moments.

 

[vector2]

Anyway, I still feel people should be able to say what ever they want about the vaccine provided at the end of the day they begrudgingly get the shot in the arm. But ya, when you say no way to the shot, admittedly you tilted toward the crazy end of the spectrum

The people who get the shot and then kneecap the vaccination effort 24/7 are a hundred times worse, imo. Essential oil guys like Steffen are off the deep end. And as such they have a very limited following that extends mostly to a small geographic circle around them.

On the other hand, look at Tucker or DeSantis. Both of those charlatans are fully vaccinated, but they spend all their time undermining the vaccine to the detriment of the tens of millions of people who follow them. For example, "Governments should never require people to submit to any medical procedure, whether that procedure is sterilization, or frontal lobotomies or COVID vaccine,” Tucker said."

And then you got old Ron talking about the vaccine:

"At the end of the day though, it's about your health and whether you want that protection or not," DeSantis said. "It really doesn't impact me or anyone else."

Followed by him standing on podiums next to anti-vaxxers stating blatant misinformation, and not correcting them.


These guys aren't even anti-vaxxers but they are cynical enablers of anti-vaxxers and misinformation pushers...just cause it aids in their pursuit of money and political power. That's way worse than the 5g/essential oils/Gates plandemic microchip true believers.

 

[2Fast2Des]

Umm let's stop trying to make them get vaccinated. Nothing wrong with "thinning the herd," it's how life evolved over billions of years anyway. Stupid people want to suffer and die, go right ahead, I'm not sure why we keep pushing to help those who don't want the help. If only there's a way to isolate them from the rest of us who actually care about society and our safety...

 

[coffeebythelake]

Umm let's stop trying to make them get vaccinated. Nothing wrong with "thinning the herd," it's how life evolved over billions of years anyway. Stupid people want to suffer and die, go right ahead, I'm not sure why we keep pushing to help those who don't want the help. If only there's a way to isolate them from the rest of us who actually care about society and our safety...

Problem is these unvaxxed idiots end up being a big pool where covid mutates and variants develop

 

[pgg]

Problem is these unvaxxed idiots end up being a big pool where covid mutates and variants develop

The pool of unvaxxed idiots in the USA aren't the mutation pool at this point. Maybe they're a mutation puddle. The mutation ocean would be the several billion people in countries with low vaccine access or enormous populations with poor infrastructure. India, all of Africa, etc.

At this point the harm we can justifiably lay at the feet of 'Merican antivaxxers is the unnecessary load they place on the system that results in substandard or delayed care to other people with other health problems.

The university hospital I was working in last night went on limited resources because the ICUs are full and we were boarding 5 patients in PACU. I don't know how many transfers to us were refused but it wasn't zero.

 

[vector2]

The pool of unvaxxed idiots in the USA aren't the mutation pool at this point. Maybe they're a mutation puddle. The mutation ocean would be the several billion people in countries with low vaccine access or enormous populations with poor infrastructure. India, all of Africa, etc.

At this point the harm we can justifiably lay at the feet of 'Merican antivaxxers is the unnecessary load they place on the system that results in substandard or delayed care to other people with other health problems.

The university hospital I was working in last night went on limited resources because the ICUs are full and we were boarding 5 patients in PACU. I don't know how many transfers to us were refused but it wasn't zero.

It's true that more people means more infections means more opportunity for mutation, but it should be noted that mutation and the rise of variants are more complex than just the sheer population in an area. Yes, the delta variant was first detected in heavily populated India, but it should also be noted that the lambda variant was first detected in Peru, a country of 32 million.

Peru had one of the highest death rates in the world at one point, which really highlights the importance of masking, isolation, and other mitigation strategies especially if vaccine access is going to continue to be poor in the rest of the world. But the same goes for the 70-80 million people here in the US who have access the vaccine but choose not to get it.

 

[Southpaw]

To what end though?

it makes you feel better I guess.

or now we have to tar and feather the guy?

dox him, report him to the state board try to get his license revoked?

im not sure what the utility of threads like this are.

I actually think he clarified his comments adequately. Not that he had to. What I saw was another thread headed into an anti-right or anti-religion or anti-capitalism tail spin. Most people on here are pretty sharp, and know exactly what they are trying to say with the words they use. When my eyes start to bleed from reading what looks like is going to devolve into another dogsh*t hit piece Twitter filled thread I think it is fair to try to jump in.

Anyway, I still feel people should be able to say what ever they want about the vaccine provided at the end of the day they begrudgingly get the shot in the arm. But ya, when you say no way to the shot, admittedly you tilted toward the crazy end of the spectrum

You don't think a physician preaching anti-vaxx needs to be held accountable? You don't have to spend but a few minutes on google to learn that Mark Steffen (I won't refer to him as Dr. from here on out - he doesn't deseve it) has spoken out against everything related to vaccination. Not just the mandate. But the actual vaccine. He's put his words out there into the public with his name attached. He doesn't need any sort of doxxing. He's doxxed himself. And yeah, I believe he should have his license revoked. Give him one more reason to be anti-institution. He's put tens of thousands of lives, if not more, at risk with his essential oils/anti-vaxx nonsense. He needs to be held accountable for his words and actions.

 

[Southpaw]

Senate votes to block measure stifling KDHE's role in expanding child vaccinations • Kansas Reflector

Kansas Senate narrowly rejects amendment designed to strip KDHE of authority to order children to get COVID-19 vaccine.

kansasreflector.com

Steffen wanted decisions on vaccination moved from the Dept of Health to legislators. That sure sounds like a swell idea, to politicize vaccination.

Steffen said he was motivated by evidence the COVID-19 vaccine carried risk of injury or death and that families should have the liberty to decide whether their children received the shots.

“Think of it as playing Russian roulette. When you’re taking that vaccine, you’re pulling the trigger,” said Steffen, who has a medical degree. “This amendment does not change current vaccination requirements in any way. It just blocks further forced vaccinations. I’m not an anti-vaccination guy. I’m a pro-individual-choice guy.”

Getting a vaccine is playing Russian roulette? Hmm... that sure sounds anti-vaxx if you ask me.

“I’m a little reluctant for Kansas to be the only state to have this requirement,” Corson said. “Kansas would, if this was adopted, be the only state in the entire country that would have a legislative process instead of a medical, scientific, nonpartisan process for determining immunization requirements.”

Steffen is clearly anti-vaxx. Why is this even up for discussion? I have no patience for this nonsense anymore. It's gone on long enough. If you're anti-vaxx you should not be put in front of patients and you should not be allowed to practice medicine.

No evidence on the long-term effects of the COVID vaccine? How about the long term effects of COVID? Why doesn't he care about that?

 

[deleted697535]

Jordan klepper should visit this dude