This is Who You Are Competing Against

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*some details in the following post may have been adjusted to maintain anonymity*



There was a girl I was tutoring in Ochem. She was smart and nice, but also one of the most frightening cases of helicopter parenting and casual over-achievement I have ever seen.

She was the kind of person who had never played a video game...never enjoyed a TV show...never read a book outside of class...never even had a hobby.

Getting into medical school was more than her hobby. It was her entire life.

Beginning in high school, she spent one summer working at a camp for deaf children. She spent the next at a camp for dyslexic children where they worked through Harry Potter. She spent some summers doing mission trips abroad. She worked in one local hospital in the OR (I'm still not sure what exactly she did...). She spent weekends at the local children's hospital. She was a contributing author on at least 2 research papers (I don't know where she found the time). At some point, she did water polo.

All of these are things her father scheduled for her or paid for or pushed her to do.

Her father was a plastic surgeon with connections. Determined to see his daughter not merely get into med school, but get a full ride into harvard. And somehow, even that would be a disappointment to him.



I was in their dining room discussing EWGs and EDGs and their effects on the reactivity of benzene when he stormed into the room. "What is this?" He yelled, holding up a calculus exam with the grade "B+"

"It was a tough test," she said.

"How can you fail so miserably when you have TWO calculus tutors?" He raged.

"It would be different if you allowed me to take an easy class or two--like Spanish."

"NO DAUGHTER OF MINE IS GOING TO VALIDATE THE MEXICAN INVASION BY LEARNING THEIR LANGUAGE!!" He tossed the calculus test on the table before us. "Your shift at xyz charitable services starts in an hour."

"I thought that was on saturday?" She said.

"The university premed society switched its meeting to saturdays. I had to switch around your other obligations."




That was the moment I realized: I was not competing with this girl for a spot in medical school. I was competing with her father.

Her millionaire, OCD, surgeon of a father.




She had a 3.95 GPA and a 96th %ile MCAT.

She shadowed 12 different physicians in 10 different specialties. (I saw the spreadsheet.)

She was the perfect premed. She checked every box and exceeded every expectation.

The only thing she didn't have was a desire to be a doctor.

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Wow, witnessing that kind of cruel, bigoted borderline verbal and emotional abuse play out must have been rough. He's keeping her from self-actualizing and it's going to be extremely difficult for her to break out of this sort of planned and controlled lifestyle.

Watch -- if you can -- "Trophy Kids" on Netflix. Various examples of the sports version of this kind of control and blatant disregard for the rights of younger people. It really is disturbing.

I hope she finds her way out. She's smart and can do whatever she wants and she really needs to know that her life belongs to her, not her dad, who's really a gigantic @ss.

Super sad, man.
 
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So basically...

c426c939075b616947d7dd70d97bd790.jpg
 
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96% MCAT and no idea what EWG are? :)
 
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*some details in the following post may have been adjusted to maintain anonymity*



There was a girl I was tutoring in Ochem. She was smart and nice, but also one of the most frightening cases of helicopter parenting and casual over-achievement I have ever seen.

She was the kind of person who had never played a video game...never enjoyed a TV show...never read a book outside of class...never even had a hobby.

Getting into medical school was more than her hobby. It was her entire life.

Beginning in high school, she spent one summer working at a camp for deaf children. She spent the next at a camp for dyslexic children where they worked through Harry Potter. She spent some summers doing mission trips abroad. She worked in one local hospital in the OR (I'm still not sure what exactly she did...). She spent weekends at the local children's hospital. She was a contributing author on at least 2 research papers (I don't know where she found the time). At some point, she did water polo.

All of these are things her father scheduled for her or paid for or pushed her to do.

Her father was a plastic surgeon with connections. Determined to see his daughter not merely get into med school, but get a full ride into harvard. And somehow, even that would be a disappointment to him.



I was in their dining room discussing EWGs and EDGs and their effects on the reactivity of benzene when he stormed into the room. "What is this?" He yelled, holding up a calculus exam with the grade "B+"

"It was a tough test," she said.

"How can you fail so miserably when you have TWO calculus tutors?" He raged.

"It would be different if you allowed me to take an easy class or two--like Spanish."

"NO DAUGHTER OF MINE IS GOING TO VALIDATE THE MEXICAN INVASION BY LEARNING THEIR LANGUAGE!!" He tossed the calculus test on the table before us. "Your shift at xyz charitable services starts in an hour."

"I thought that was on saturday?" She said.

"The university premed society switched its meeting to saturdays. I had to switch around your other obligations."




That was the moment I realized: I was not competing with this girl for a spot in medical school. I was competing with her father.

Her millionaire, OCD, surgeon of a father.




She had a 3.95 GPA and a 96th %ile MCAT.

She shadowed 12 different physicians in 10 different specialties. (I saw the spreadsheet.)

She was the perfect premed. She checked every box and exceeded every expectation.

The only thing she didn't have was a desire to be a doctor.
She is not the average person you're competing against, not by a long shot.
 
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In all seriousness, I feel deeply sorry for her. It sucks that she has a conceited father, but really, the best way to approach this is really to be an independent adult. @Goro summed this up very nicely

Yup. OP, you're an adult now. Old enough to vote, drink, smoke, drive, work, pay taxes and fight and die for our country.

Therefore, you can grow a spine and tell your parents that you'll do this on your timetable, or they can F** up your medical career and you apply on theirs.
 
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While it's easy to hold a dismissive attitude toward that student's father and to deplore the situation she's in, it's also important to consider that different people from different parts of the world have different cultural norms/expectations. While it may seem like the girl's freedom of choice is being violated by her father, other cultures may interpret that as simply good parenting and an example of what a parent ought to do for his/her child.
 
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It's easy to compete against people who don't want to be doctors. They by and large don't get acceptances, despite stellar stats. As far as I can tell, anyway. They also drop out.

Also: I am a med student and got a 96%ile on my MCAT and have no idea what EWGs are.
 
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While it's easy to hold a dismissive attitude toward that student's father and to deplore the situation she's in, it's also important to consider that different people from different parts of the world have different cultural norms/expectations. While it may seem like the girl's freedom of choice is being violated by her father, other cultures may interpret that as simply good parenting and an example of what a parent ought to do for his/her child.

Why do you assume she's not white? I've honestly never met any non-white people that were super concerned about the "Mexican invasion".
 
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The rich like to stay on top and keep their kids in the top tax bracket. Nothing new. 21st century version of primitive accumulation
 
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Why do you assume she's not white? I've honestly never met any non-white people that were super concerned about the "Mexican invasion".

I wasn't assuming "she's not white." She could be any nationality for all I know. But, no matter what one's race is, everyone has different beliefs about parenting and doing what they feel is best for their child.
 
While it's easy to hold a dismissive attitude toward that student's father and to deplore the situation she's in, it's also important to consider that different people from different parts of the world have different cultural norms/expectations. While it may seem like the girl's freedom of choice is being violated by her father, other cultures may interpret that as simply good parenting and an example of what a parent ought to do for his/her child.
And it's okay for me to believe that is fundamentally un-American, because this is the land of mother****ing freedom and individuality.
america_eagle2%5B1%5D.jpg
 
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Not be be the inevitable dbag naysayer here, but this account seems somewhat dramatized and also quite a bit reactionary.

Practically, almost 20,000 people get into medical school every cycle (more if we include DO). One person is not representative of, well, anything, really.

Also, what leads you to believe she doesn't want to be a doctor? While helicopter parenting definitely isn't fun or accepted by mainstream American culture, it's not necessarily a hugely detrimental thing, per se. On the contrary, we hear stories of successful people in all fields saying stuff like "thank god my parents pushed me hard as a kid, even when I wanted to quit." Even looking back at my own upbringing, though my own parents were pretty chill, I definitely think I would have turned out a lot worse if they had simply let me do what I wanted. Maybe my elbow tendons could've been a bit more durable, but that's an unrelated story for a forum not named SDN.

I'm of the opinion that come tomorrow morning you'll have a different take on the matter. My 2c, no offense intended to anyone.
 
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It's easy to compete against people who don't want to be doctors. They by and large don't get acceptances, despite stellar stats. As far as I can tell, anyway. They also drop out.

Also: I am a med student and got a 96%ile on my MCAT and have no idea what EWGs are.

Electron withdrawing groups I'd assume. I disliked ochem lol.
 
It's easy to compete against people who don't want to be doctors. They by and large don't get acceptances, despite stellar stats. As far as I can tell, anyway. They also drop out.

Also: I am a med student and got a 96%ile on my MCAT and have no idea what EWGs are.

I don't really want to be one, but I still got accepted. It has more to do with how good of an actor you are during interviews. I think I'll complete medical school, but I'll likely either flame out during residency or find a really good antidepressant.

And I think it's an electron withdrawing group? I got a C in orgo tho so may be making that up.
 
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I'm actually kind of amused by the fact that future pre-meds won't be competing against my kids, they'll be competing against me. I can take 'em.

Also, this chemistry major had to google EWG. Orgo was a long, looooong time ago.
 
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I'm actually kind of amused by the fact that future pre-meds won't be competing against my kids, they'll be competing against me. I can take 'em.

Also, this chemistry major had to google EWG. Orgo was a long, looooong time ago.

Chem was the low point in mcat! I was overly excited by the fact I recognized what an EWG was haha.

But then again it could've been my CARS that saved me again by recognizing the context of the original post :confused:
 
Those words.... sound vaguely familiar, maybe? I can't believe orgo is a prereq, honestly.
 
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Those words.... sound vaguely familiar, maybe? I can't believe orgo is a prereq, honestly.
Orgo wasn't completely low yield. Dat lipid solubility, soponification (pancreatic CA bitches), and organic rxns- they play into biochem very well.
 
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"It would be different if you allowed me to take an easy class or two--like Spanish."

"NO DAUGHTER OF MINE IS GOING TO VALIDATE THE MEXICAN INVASION BY LEARNING THEIR LANGUAGE!!" He tossed the calculus test on the table before us. "Your shift at xyz charitable services starts in an hour."

Lol. he's sounds like a cartoon character. Though he probably never watched them so he may not realize it.
 
I cry everytime. Someone should put together a "tortured children of helicopter parenting" anthology. It would be SUPER interesting (and morbidly funny)
 
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These type of parents come in all different shapes, sizes colors and cultures. Gawd knows, I grew up with plenty of them! My high school class was definitely full of overachievers.

The very sad thing about this is that the girl Spinach described in the OP, when she goes for interviews, will NOT display a passion for medicine, and get rejected, OR, she may get accepted, and then commit "suicide by cop" and fail out. More accurately, suicide by promotions Committee".

While it's easy to hold a dismissive attitude toward that student's father and to deplore the situation she's in, it's also important to consider that different people from different parts of the world have different cultural norms/expectations. While it may seem like the girl's freedom of choice is being violated by her father, other cultures may interpret that as simply good parenting and an example of what a parent ought to do for his/her child.
 
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While it's easy to hold a dismissive attitude toward that student's father and to deplore the situation she's in, it's also important to consider that different people from different parts of the world have different cultural norms/expectations. While it may seem like the girl's freedom of choice is being violated by her father, other cultures may interpret that as simply good parenting and an example of what a parent ought to do for his/her child.
That may well be true, but such control being a cultural norm doesn't make it good. If it's harmful, it's not acceptable and I'm willing to admit that some cultures have figured out some better ways of doing certain things than have others.
 
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You have to realize that she may get her foot in the door, but when times get tough in medical school and she doesn't have the inner motivation to persevere, she will fall - and miserably so! And then she will hate her father for the rest of her life.
 
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"NO DAUGHTER OF MINE IS GOING TO VALIDATE THE MEXICAN INVASION BY LEARNING THEIR LANGUAGE!!"

The caps really did it for me and then I got to the bolded and lost it :laugh:
 
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Even looking back at my own upbringing, though my own parents were pretty chill, I definitely think I would have turned out a lot worse if they had simply let me do what I wanted.

That might be the case with you, but the data on authoritarian parenting says otherwise; children with more freedom and autonomy often live less troubled lives. They don't feel the need to revolt. My parents pushed me but pushed me towards something I didn't want, and it resulted in me not wanting to go to college at all for several years after HS.

In research, kids who are more comfortable on their own and have more autonomy exercise greater self control and often have better life outcomes many years later. These things have been replicated over and over and this parenting style is not beneficial for the most part.

Whether or not someone says "I'm glad my parents pushed me" is subjective based on their personal ethnomethodology which may have been shaped by that upbringing anyways.
 
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That might be the case with you, but the data on authoritarian parenting says otherwise; children with more freedom and autonomy often live less troubled lives. They don't feel the need to revolt. My parents pushed me but pushed me towards something I didn't want, and it resulted in me not wanting to go to college at all for several years after HS.

In research, kids who are more comfortable on their own and have more autonomy exercise greater self control and often have better life outcomes many years later. These things have been replicated over and over and this parenting style is not beneficial for the most part.

Whether or not someone says "I'm glad my parents pushed me" is subjective based on their personal ethnomethodology which may have been shaped by that upbringing anyways.

There is a difference between being "authoritarian" and just being a good parent. A parent who provides direction and disciplines when necessary is absolutely key to a child's development. I don't think @md-2020 was saying that his parents were authoritative, I think he was just saying they provided direction, which is different. A parent who lets their kids do whatever they want with out any disregard to consequences is just as likely to have a child make very poor life choices as the authoritative parent whose child revolts. It's all about balance and consistency, knowing when to provide guidance and when to lay back and let the child learn from experience.

I agree with everything you said by the way, just wanted to clarify some points.
 
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I was doing stairmaster the other day and set my goal at 1,000 steps. At 700, I started lowering my expectations to 800. At 750, something clicked and I said "I'm just being a little b**** and I know I can do 1000"

I ended up doing 1,400

You have no idea how powerful your brain is. If you set your mind to something, you WILL get there. You have to be so stubborn with the universe that it has no other option except to aid in the aim for your dreams.

This is where the difference shows between the student who got a C- in organic chemistry and took charge of himself/herself and made a change, verses the one who got a B+ and decided to change career goals.

Not to start an argument or anything, but this also shows the difference between the student who would rather do anything else than go to a DO school versus a student who truly wants to be a doctor. In the end, you're treating people and making them happy. Doctors are needed so badly that as long as you're qualified and competent, you'll be able to make a living and be happy with what you are doing.
 
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I'm calling bullcrap. The mexican invasion line is too silly. This is a fictional piece.
 
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I'm calling bullcrap. The mexican invasion line is too silly. This is a fictional piece.

lol I could see one of my parents saying something similar(seriously I would have had to put up with a lot of **** if I decided to take spanish instead of Italian in hs/college), and we are prole AF. It definitely wouldnt surprise me to see somebody from the upperclass say that in the privacy of their own home.
 
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lol I could see one of my parents saying something similar(seriously I would have had to put up with a lot of **** if I decided to take spanish instead of Italian in hs/college), and we are prole AF. It definitely wouldnt surprise me to see somebody from the upperclass say that in the privacy of their own home.
The sentiment is believablr

The phrasing is an onion article
 
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These type of parents come in all different shapes, sizes colors and cultures. Gawd knows, I grew up with plenty of them! My high school class was definitely full of overachievers.

The very sad thing about this is that the girl Spinach described in the OP, when she goes for interviews, will NOT display a passion for medicine, and get rejected, OR, she may get accepted, and then commit "suicide by cop" and fail out. More accurately, suicide by promotions Committee".
Actually I know plenty of people who were pushed to be the best throughout high school and college. Very few didn't achieve and get into prestigious professional schools. At least the 90% that didn't end up in rehab.
 
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*some details in the following post may have been adjusted to maintain anonymity*



There was a girl I was tutoring in Ochem. She was smart and nice, but also one of the most frightening cases of helicopter parenting and casual over-achievement I have ever seen.

She was the kind of person who had never played a video game...never enjoyed a TV show...never read a book outside of class...never even had a hobby.

Getting into medical school was more than her hobby. It was her entire life.

Beginning in high school, she spent one summer working at a camp for deaf children. She spent the next at a camp for dyslexic children where they worked through Harry Potter. She spent some summers doing mission trips abroad. She worked in one local hospital in the OR (I'm still not sure what exactly she did...). She spent weekends at the local children's hospital. She was a contributing author on at least 2 research papers (I don't know where she found the time). At some point, she did water polo.

All of these are things her father scheduled for her or paid for or pushed her to do.

Her father was a plastic surgeon with connections. Determined to see his daughter not merely get into med school, but get a full ride into harvard. And somehow, even that would be a disappointment to him.



I was in their dining room discussing EWGs and EDGs and their effects on the reactivity of benzene when he stormed into the room. "What is this?" He yelled, holding up a calculus exam with the grade "B+"

"It was a tough test," she said.

"How can you fail so miserably when you have TWO calculus tutors?" He raged.

"It would be different if you allowed me to take an easy class or two--like Spanish."

"NO DAUGHTER OF MINE IS GOING TO VALIDATE THE MEXICAN INVASION BY LEARNING THEIR LANGUAGE!!" He tossed the calculus test on the table before us. "Your shift at xyz charitable services starts in an hour."

"I thought that was on saturday?" She said.

"The university premed society switched its meeting to saturdays. I had to switch around your other obligations."




That was the moment I realized: I was not competing with this girl for a spot in medical school. I was competing with her father.

Her millionaire, OCD, surgeon of a father.




She had a 3.95 GPA and a 96th %ile MCAT.

She shadowed 12 different physicians in 10 different specialties. (I saw the spreadsheet.)

She was the perfect premed. She checked every box and exceeded every expectation.

The only thing she didn't have was a desire to be a doctor.

Wow, with that same dedication she could have went to HYPSM and gotten a nice investment banking analyst position at one of the BB banks instead of the debt. Maybe continued with that work ethic and switched to the buy side at a hedge fund/private equity. No debt to worry about and a decent salary to boot.

JUST JOKING GUYS BECAUSE THIS IS A PREMED FORUM.
 
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Alternatively, the father could instead give her unlimited freedom, and he could have Cat Marnell as a daughter.
Balance is a good thing, hopefully she gets into a good med school and does fantastic, and loves it.
And learning the "language of the invaders" is a great idea. You can blend :whistle:
 
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Is this based on a true story like Fargo is based on a true story?
 
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Was this supposed to scare me? Sounds great - she will prob cry at her interview.
 
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*some details in the following post may have been adjusted to maintain anonymity*



There was a girl I was tutoring in Ochem. She was smart and nice, but also one of the most frightening cases of helicopter parenting and casual over-achievement I have ever seen.

She was the kind of person who had never played a video game...never enjoyed a TV show...never read a book outside of class...never even had a hobby.

Getting into medical school was more than her hobby. It was her entire life.

Beginning in high school, she spent one summer working at a camp for deaf children. She spent the next at a camp for dyslexic children where they worked through Harry Potter. She spent some summers doing mission trips abroad. She worked in one local hospital in the OR (I'm still not sure what exactly she did...). She spent weekends at the local children's hospital. She was a contributing author on at least 2 research papers (I don't know where she found the time). At some point, she did water polo.

All of these are things her father scheduled for her or paid for or pushed her to do.

Her father was a plastic surgeon with connections. Determined to see his daughter not merely get into med school, but get a full ride into harvard. And somehow, even that would be a disappointment to him.



I was in their dining room discussing EWGs and EDGs and their effects on the reactivity of benzene when he stormed into the room. "What is this?" He yelled, holding up a calculus exam with the grade "B+"

"It was a tough test," she said.

"How can you fail so miserably when you have TWO calculus tutors?" He raged.

"It would be different if you allowed me to take an easy class or two--like Spanish."

"NO DAUGHTER OF MINE IS GOING TO VALIDATE THE MEXICAN INVASION BY LEARNING THEIR LANGUAGE!!" He tossed the calculus test on the table before us. "Your shift at xyz charitable services starts in an hour."

"I thought that was on saturday?" She said.

"The university premed society switched its meeting to saturdays. I had to switch around your other obligations."




That was the moment I realized: I was not competing with this girl for a spot in medical school. I was competing with her father.

Her millionaire, OCD, surgeon of a father.




She had a 3.95 GPA and a 96th %ile MCAT.

She shadowed 12 different physicians in 10 different specialties. (I saw the spreadsheet.)

She was the perfect premed. She checked every box and exceeded every expectation.

The only thing she didn't have was a desire to be a doctor.

Let's be real, if I end up going into medicine or not, there is no way my kids are going to be DRs. The financial investment is too great. Forget just spending 4 years on a college degree, think of all your classmates with extra degrees that they are not using just to beef up their credentials.
 
And it's okay for me to believe that is fundamentally un-American, because this is the land of mother****ing freedom and individuality.
Lol. True. But then again, I could totally hear Donald Trump saying that at one of his events and getting a huge applause for it.


"NO DAUGHTER OF MINE IS GOING TO VALIDATE THE MEXICAN INVASION BY LEARNING THEIR LANGUAGE!!"


200.gif
 
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Lol. True. But then again, I could totally hear Donald Trump saying that at one of his events and getting a huge applause for it.


"NO DAUGHTER OF MINE IS GOING TO VALIDATE THE MEXICAN INVASION BY LEARNING THEIR LANGUAGE!!"


200.gif
The dad is a cross between Ben Carson and Donald Trump hahahah
 
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Let's be real, if I end up going into medicine or not, there is no way my kids are going to be DRs. The financial investment is too great. Forget just spending 4 years on a college degree, think of all your classmates with extra degrees that they are not using just to beef up their credentials.
$200k for an education that allows you to enter a field where you'll be earning around that much per year on the low end doesn't seem so bad.

Granted with how much costs have been increasing, that number could be much higher by the time I have kids ready for graduate education.
 
Helicopter parenting was my LIFE. I would get grounded for AND from reading. If I got in trouble, I had to determine the type, duration, severity, and further consequences of my punishment should I reoffend and how I would get my privileges back. I would have to write a freaking PAPER on it.

Daughter of two college basketball players. Father was a collegiate basketball coach, both my father and his father hold PhDs and are 6'6".

I'm 6'0" and hold a measly bachelors degree. Played on a team so bad in college we only won three games my freshman year. Wanna talk disappointment? Try being all of that and showing up to an Irish family reunion and telling your distant cousins that you don't like beer.
image.jpeg
 
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*some details in the following post may have been adjusted to maintain anonymity*



There was a girl I was tutoring in Ochem. She was smart and nice, but also one of the most frightening cases of helicopter parenting and casual over-achievement I have ever seen.

She was the kind of person who had never played a video game...never enjoyed a TV show...never read a book outside of class...never even had a hobby.

Getting into medical school was more than her hobby. It was her entire life.

Beginning in high school, she spent one summer working at a camp for deaf children. She spent the next at a camp for dyslexic children where they worked through Harry Potter. She spent some summers doing mission trips abroad. She worked in one local hospital in the OR (I'm still not sure what exactly she did...). She spent weekends at the local children's hospital. She was a contributing author on at least 2 research papers (I don't know where she found the time). At some point, she did water polo.

All of these are things her father scheduled for her or paid for or pushed her to do.

Her father was a plastic surgeon with connections. Determined to see his daughter not merely get into med school, but get a full ride into harvard. And somehow, even that would be a disappointment to him.



I was in their dining room discussing EWGs and EDGs and their effects on the reactivity of benzene when he stormed into the room. "What is this?" He yelled, holding up a calculus exam with the grade "B+"

"It was a tough test," she said.

"How can you fail so miserably when you have TWO calculus tutors?" He raged.

"It would be different if you allowed me to take an easy class or two--like Spanish."

"NO DAUGHTER OF MINE IS GOING TO VALIDATE THE MEXICAN INVASION BY LEARNING THEIR LANGUAGE!!" He tossed the calculus test on the table before us. "Your shift at xyz charitable services starts in an hour."

"I thought that was on saturday?" She said.

"The university premed society switched its meeting to saturdays. I had to switch around your other obligations."




That was the moment I realized: I was not competing with this girl for a spot in medical school. I was competing with her father.

Her millionaire, OCD, surgeon of a father.




She had a 3.95 GPA and a 96th %ile MCAT.

She shadowed 12 different physicians in 10 different specialties. (I saw the spreadsheet.)

She was the perfect premed. She checked every box and exceeded every expectation.

The only thing she didn't have was a desire to be a doctor.
That's sad, bro. =/
 
She was the perfect premed. She checked every box and exceeded every expectation.

The only thing she didn't have was a desire to be a doctor.
It's possible that she'd view medicine differently if her father weren't so overbearing.
Poor girl :(
 
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