This will be fun

[chocomorsel]

What in my post is false?

Maybe YOU specifically never called us a bunch of lazy asses, but plenty of your fellow nurses think so. I mean look at the link to the OP and the allnurses forums and plenty of the attitudes of CRNAs we work with? Sure there are some lazy docs, just like lazy nurses are abound. But your toxic organization wants to paint us with all the same strokes and make us look like money hungry unnecessary “providers”


Plenty of people on this board work with nurses and we know how the average CRNA has been brainwashed to be an antagonistic, cocky, know it all. Not all, but I would bet the vast majority. Otherwise why are you all so hell bent on independent practice and keeping AAs out of the ORs if it isn’t for cockiness and thinking y’all are better that all Anesthesia “providers”?

Tell us here, when you introduce yourself to the patient what do you say to them?

Most of your post is false, which isn’t surprising.

Never said all anesthesiologists are lazy jerks who do nothing all day. But some are. I have a lot of respect for the ones I work with because they sit cases from time to time, mostly weekends. They provide anesthetics, which is what they were trained to do. And I know quite a few who haven’t provided an anesthetic in decades.

AANA membership isn’t mandatory. Never has been.

Who said I’m not proud to be a nurse? I think that’s a vital part of who I am as a provider and how I treat patients daily. If I wanted to be a doctor I’d have gone to med school. But I wanted to be a CRNA, and I’m proud of it. And none of that has anything to do with my ability to provide excellent, safe anesthetics to all ranges of patients and complexities of cases.

t

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[chocomorsel]

I’d love for you to explain why I have no business doing this case. I’d love for you to explain what part of my board certification disqualifies me from doing this case without an anesthesiologist. I’ll wayt.

By the way, one of the anesthesiologists (now gone) that was hired out of residency right before I got here had between 6 or 7 heart cases in residency. I had well over 10x that in my training. Which one of us is more qualified?[/QUOTE]



Well that right there is complete BS because the minimum number required to graduate is higher than 6. Sounds like someone is lying.

 

[chocomorsel]

Damn, he’s/she”s already banned.
I was gonna ask why they think AAs are inferior to them. Lol

 

[San Marzano]

I have no problem with the anesthesiologist being involved

Of course you don’t because then when something goes wrong you can point your finger at the one with a medical license and pass the blame right along and leave the building at 1500 sharp right at the end of your shift. Or maybe your shift ends at 1445 like the nurses at my old residency program that way you have time to change out of your work clothes and be in your car at 1500 already driving to the mall to get a mani/pedi to unwind from a grueling 8 hour day.

 

[Adrenaline Junky]

 

[vector2]

Aww man, why'd you guys ban the nurse so soon? I was just waiting for him to get to the good part where he was unable to come off pump due to low cardiac output syndrome he diagnosed on TEE, so he titrated all the drips to max, performed cannulation and went on VA ecmo, singlehandedly transported the patient to the chopper, piloted the chopper to a tertiary center, performed a heart transplant solo, high-fived the entire OR staff, and then ****ed the CT surgeon's wife to celebrate a job well done.

 

[Adrenaline Junky]

Aww man, why'd you guys ban the nurse so soon? I was just waiting for him to get to the good part where he was unable to come off pump due to low cardiac output syndrome he diagnosed on TEE, so he titrated all the drips to max, performed cannulation and went on VA ecmo, singlehandedly transported the patient to the chopper, piloted the chopper to a tertiary center, performed a heart transplant solo, high-fived the entire OR staff, and then ****ed the CT surgeon's wife to celebrate a job well done.

I just spit my water out

 

[onsager]

Would a CRNA pass the board exams if they studied? Med student strongly considering anesthesiology here- just curious about what skills/knowledge they lack. I feel like NPs should have to take step1-3 if they want to practice solo.

I'm just finishing my first year so I don't know anything about anything

 

[AdmiralChz]

DOWN with the ban hammer! I mean, that’s what trolling gets you.

Would a CRNA pass the board exams if they studied? Med student strongly considering anesthesiology here- just curious about what skills/knowledge they lack. I feel like NPs should have to take step1-3 if they want to practice solo.

I'm just finishing my first year so I don't know anything about anything

Doubtful, and definitely not the oral board component.

My good friend is a new NP grad. She used to tell me she would do “so well” on practice step 2 material. Thing is, she has no Peds, OB or any IM/FM primary care on her test. She also refuses to deal with these patient populations as an “acute care advanced practitioner.” I asked her what she’d do if a pregnant person was in a trauma, she responded with “that’s for my collaborating physician to deal with and outside of my scope of practice.” It must be nice to live in nurse dreamland.

 

[chocomorsel]

DOWN with the ban hammer! I mean, that’s what trolling gets you.



Doubtful, and definitely not the oral board component.

My good friend is a new NP grad. She used to tell me she would do “so well” on practice step 2 material. Thing is, she has no Peds, OB or any IM/FM primary care on her test. She also refuses to deal with these patient populations as an “acute care advanced practitioner.” I asked her what she’d do if a pregnant person was in a trauma, she responded with “that’s for my collaborating physician to deal with and outside of my scope of practice.” It must be nice to live in nurse dreamland.

At least she acknowledges that there are things that are outside her scope!

 

[NydusHerMain]

what fellowships provide anesthesiologists with skills that are outside the scope of CRNAs aside from cards? I assume pain, would regional?

 

[Consigliere]

I’d bet a month’s worth of pay this a newish male CRNA(less than 10 yrs practice).
Helpful hint: If you are new to supervising, these are generally the ones you really need to watch in my experience. A legend in their own minds and too much ego.

I would wager my entire retirement fund on that and come up aces baby!

 

[deleted162650]

what fellowships provide anesthesiologists with skills that are outside the scope of CRNAs aside from cards? I assume pain, would regional?

If you go to a solid residency program, a regional fellowship won’t provide you with any additional skills.

(Cue @facted with the rebuttal )

 

[Iso4ane]

I will be willing to admit that there probably is a lazy group of anesthesiologist out there. But, I feel that the CRNAs who come in here fail to realize that the people on here on our A-game and don't know what to do when we bite back.

 

[Man o War]

I had a colonoscopy today with some lovely MD provided anesthesia, bored out of my mind at home.
At least this was quasi entertaining while it lasted.

 

[anbuitachi]

what fellowships provide anesthesiologists with skills that are outside the scope of CRNAs aside from cards? I assume pain, would regional?

you want your appy to be done solo by a surgery resident whos only done like 3 appys? there's a reason why residency is 4 years long, and 5 years in canada for anesthesia. so you can get a lot of numbers.

 

[NydusHerMain]

you want your appy to be done solo by a surgery resident whos only done like 3 appys? there's a reason why residency is 4 years long, and 5 years in canada for anesthesia. so you can get a lot of numbers.

Practically I understand what you're saying, but in reality that doesn't seem to be the world we live in anymore.

I should have asked what fellowships provide anesthesiologists with the credentials to do things CRNAs can't. I'm pretty naive on the topic- can CRNAs do whatever cases they want? I imagine they cannot but I don't know bc I haven't started rotations yet.

Surely one would be critical care?

 

[Wolverines83]

at my place I've noticed that every new hire is less capable and more arrogant than the

Practically I understand what you're saying, but in reality that doesn't seem to be the world we live in anymore.

I should have asked what fellowships provide anesthesiologists with the credentials to do things CRNAs can't. I'm pretty naive on the topic- can CRNAs do whatever cases they want? I imagine they cannot but I don't know bc I haven't started rotations yet.

Surely one would be critical care?

Midlevels are making a lot of progress in critical care, at least at my institution. But my institution seems to be INCREDIBLY midlevel heavy so maybe I'm being pessimistic

 

[hankbb02]

I’d bet a month’s worth of pay this a newish male CRNA(less than 10 yrs practice).
Helpful hint: If you are new to supervising, these are generally the ones you really need to watch in my experience. A legend in their own minds and too much ego.

I would also bet a months worth of my fellowship pay that they wanted to go to medical school and couldn't make the grades. This is often where the ego stems from.

 

[anbuitachi]

Practically I understand what you're saying, but in reality that doesn't seem to be the world we live in anymore.

I should have asked what fellowships provide anesthesiologists with the credentials to do things CRNAs can't. I'm pretty naive on the topic- can CRNAs do whatever cases they want? I imagine they cannot but I don't know bc I haven't started rotations yet.

Surely one would be critical care?

Can and can not is not really a clinical aspect of medicine. it's more of a legal/political aspect. the only reason you can't just walk in and perform neurosurgery is because there are laws/rules against it. Same with assisted suicide. Anesthesiologists have more than enough skills to do so, but we aren't allowed to. There are many talented doctors abroad who perform the same procedures or same anesthetics that we do here, but they can't do it here without US approved credentials.

Many general surgeons go on to do further fellowship, minimally invasive, breast, thoracic, peds, etc etc. Why? To gain more experience, to be able to do a better job. There's a reason why OBGYNs are the worst surgeons, because their 5 year residency is split between OB and GYN, so they have way less surgical training. It's not always about what you cant and can do, but how well you can do it. Think about it, are CRNAs fighting for independent practice because they are pushing for better patient care? No. they do it for self beneficial reasons. How many college students became CRNAs because they want to be the best at anesthetizing patients so therefore they chose accomplish that goal by going to CRNA school instead of MD/Residency? If someone told you their goal is to be the best surgeon possible for the patients but is only willing to do 1.5 years of residency instead of 5.. would you believe them?

 

[Psai]

at my place I've noticed that every new hire is less capable and more arrogant than the


Midlevels are making a lot of progress in critical care, at least at my institution. But my institution seems to be INCREDIBLY midlevel heavy so maybe I'm being pessimistic

I don't think they're making any decisions independently. For us, it's the intensivist that makes all the decisions while the midlevel takes report, synthesizes for the attending, writes notes, places orders that they are told to place. There is a heavy midlevel presence but out of all the nps and pas that I've run into, I think only one or two would be able to run an ICU. The rest were barely competent at being midlevels and some of them were pretty bad at just getting through what they were told to do.

 

[coffeebythelake]

Wrong again. I’m licensed as a nurse. I’m board certified in anesthesia.

Nursing "boards" are neither difficult nor impressive.

 

[mmag]

2 of our 4 anesthesiologists refuse to step foot in or be associated with any heart cases. 1 of our 7 CRNAs doesn’t do them. I did a 7 hour emergency heart on Easter a couple years back because the anesthesiologist refused to be involved “because I don’t do heart cases.” While I did this case placing all lines, floating a Swan, and doing a TEE that found previously undiagnosed 4+ MR, he did a colonoscopy case. His involvement included 2 minutes of “is everything ok in here, I’m going to get some lunch.” While we were on pump.

We do the 350 lbs OB patients. The PS 4 cases (we have no 5 cases, TAVRs, or transplants). I know plenty of CRNAs who do TAVRs, peds hearts, and transplants..

I think this guy is impersonating a real cRNa and/or dreamed up the whole episode...

 

[coffeebythelake]

Coming from experience of anesthesiology from another country. It is shameful that there is even a discussion of nurses replacing MDs. Healthcare is eventually going to go down the drain in this country, and this is just the beginning.

The people with money or who know better will always go for an anesthesiologist. I feel sorry for all the patients duped into thinking their anesthesia nurse masquerading as "doctor" actually cares about the patient's best interests.

CRNA programs now offer a doctorate degree in nursing anesthesia practice, essentially identical to the masters programs that exist before it. They offer "board certification" to play into their egos. I work in ACT model and I'm present at every induction and on emergence to deal with **** that happens. When im not in the OR im preopping patients, optimizing care, dealing with issues in pacu, or looking up charts. I plan my anesthetics carefully but that doesnt work when a hard headed nurse who thinks they know better does it their way.

HINT to the CRNAs out there: you complain that we show up at the beginning of thr case and then sit in the "break room" while you do the hard work? It's not hard sitting in the operating room browsing the internet as I frequently see nurses do

I would laugh if this wasn' such a huge public health issue.

 

[parcus]

Why did he get banned? What rule did he violate? He was deluded, but at least I the posts I read weren't offensive. I don't mind if a CRNA speaks their mind, different points of view can be insightful at times. Anyhow, people saying the future of anesthesia is doom and gloom are just as deluded. Good surgeons know they need us, we take care of/prevent the most acute issues and that requires smart people; this is enough to be reassured our job is just not going to be taken over by midlevels. There is a lot of things dumb people can do, but taking the responsibility for anesthesia, where death can result from a moment of inatention is not one of them. The educational system everywhere is not perfect and I don't doubt there is a MD at the lower end of the curve who is worse than one of the better nurses, but the majority of MDs know more and have more intelligence, experience and desire to learn than nurses.

The lack of midlevels doesn't necessarily bring quality, those mechanical tasks such as colonoscopies and stool sitting may be taken over by them in an organized fashion imo. Unlike our CRNA friend above who prides himself on "doing" alone, I'd venture to say most anesthesiologists are also thinkers and taking all that education we have and using it for colonoscopies is quite frankly unhealthy for most of us.

 

[anbuitachi]

Why did he get banned? What rule did he violate? He was deluded, but at least I the posts I read weren't offensive. I don't mind if a CRNA speaks their mind, different points of view can be insightful at times. Anyhow, people saying the future of anesthesia is doom and gloom are just as deluded. Good surgeons know they need us, we take care of/prevent the most acute issues and that requires smart people; this is enough to be reassured our job is just not going to be taken over by midlevels. There is a lot of things dumb people can do, but taking the responsibility for anesthesia, where death can result from a moment of inatention is not one of them. The educational system everywhere is not perfect and I don't doubt there is a MD at the lower end of the curve who is worse than one of the better nurses, but the majority of MDs know more and have more intelligence, experience and desire to learn than nurses.

The lack of midlevels doesn't necessarily bring quality, those mechanical tasks such as colonoscopies and stool sitting may be taken over by them in an organized fashion imo. Unlike our CRNA friend above who prides himself on "doing" alone, I'd venture to say most anesthesiologists are also thinkers and taking all that education we have and using it for colonoscopies is quite frankly unhealthy for most of us.

It's still doom and gloom if you got CRNAs working independently and a couple of anesthesiologists running around putting out fires. it doesn't mean 100% of anesthesiologists have to lose their jobs

 

[coffeebythelake]

I think this guy is impersonating a real cRNa and/or dreamed up the whole episode...

View attachment 232260

He is deluded.

 

[Gaseous1]

It blows my mind that we are having this discussion at all. I have a bunch of family members who are nurses, so I'm not just blowing wind.

All education is additive. We are the premed kids, a completely different caliber of student from nursing. Fact. You all forget that we labored through advanced classes in high school, premed curriculum in college. Actual hard stuff. Physics, organic chemistry, biochem... Like, not able to drink and watch college football all weekend hard. And our grades actually mattered. But, doc.....I took the same classes as you!?!? Nope, no you didn't. It was watered down. I TA'd back then and I can guarantee you there was a much higher standard in premed. No question. After that, MCAT. Not an easy test, stressful as balls and definitely not pass/fail. Actual performance would dictate where you went for medical school.

Medical school. Took prior higher-echelon knowledge and built on it with some days days of 8+ hours of class. Five days a week. Weekends spend studying. The stuff we were expected to master within 1-2 weeks would take a semester in undergrad. We developed an understanding of how the body functions that is unparalleled in any other professional discipline. Lets not forget the clinicals, shelf exams. Oh, yeah and the USMLE. High stakes test #2, 3 and 4. How well you did matters, and would have a large bearing on what kind of things you can do with your LIFE.....not just pass/fail. Talk about high stress. The mere thought of working a side job is difficult if not impossible because of the expectations and demands on us. Can't say the same with the 'rigors' of advanced nursing programs.

This is all before even setting foot in an anesthesiology residency. Prior to July 1, we have endured a vetting process that would make most nurses cry harder than the lateness of a 15min break. The expectations for anesthesiology training and CRNA training are not even remotely comparable. Look at the numbers. We have rotating SRNA's at my shop.....the requirements and times they get sent home were similar to my rotation in anesthesia as a med student. But, sure.....

Now, I get it. I understand ICU nurses are probably overworked and underpaid. I also understand the overwhelming financial incentive to return to school for 26 months and make triple. Back before the secret was out, mainly the best ICU nurses got cherry picked to learn anesthesia. There is a major generational difference. Now every bright-eyed college freshmen nursing student is chasing the glitz CRNA-dom. Seems like a disproportionate focus on money......perhaps we should set up a website showing the CRNA house compared to the ICU nurse. The greed! ICU is simply a stepping stone to check the box. News flash....you don't 'manage' patients in the ICU. Try carrying an ICU census of 10-20 patients with the expectation of knowing everything about them and intervening when necessary and then come talk to me.

Anyways, I digress. Perhaps there is a feasible solution to this issue and maybe it doesn't need to be a zero-sum game. I'm interested in hearing the bright future the CRNA's hope to see. I also want to impart the fact that your educators are psychos. The number of standoffish CRNA students I come across is more the rule than the exception. Just because you had slightly above-average nursing grades, ICU 'experience' and a moderately to severely aggressive personality that is considered a strength in a potential CRNA applicant doesn't mean you need to be a d*ck when I meet you for the first time.

 

[DeadSpace]

I would wager my entire retirement fund on that and come up aces baby!

We work with CRNAs. I must have those caring eyes because people are pretty open with me, or maybe they just assume I'm so low on the totem pole I don't matter. Either way, you're kidding yourself if you think this CRNA doesn't represent about 90% of them. They all seem to think this way.

The SRNAs going through their new doctorate CRNA programs are even more amped up. I feel like I'm always hearing about it and some have mentioned using their title in practice when they get out. I just smile, not getting into that pile of sh$t. One even asked me what I thought about using the made up name, "nurse anesthesiologist". GTFO. with a smile of course.

 

[acidbase1]

There aren’t enough heart cases to have dedicated call along with general/OB call.

I agree with you, I don’t fault him for not doing something he isn’t comfortable with. In fact, I commend him. We should all have the same level of professionalism. However, the discussion was over complexity of cases and the suggestion that CRNAs are incapable of managing complex cases alone, without backup, and without an anesthesiologist to “bail them out” (if I had a nickel for every time I heard that lame retort). That suggestion is absolutely and unequivocally false. Am I staying ALL CRNAs are created the same and capable of doing the above? No. But neither are anesthesiologists. I’ve seen them quit because “weekend call was too hard,” seen them put 3.5 and 4.0 tubes in every. single. peds. patient. regardless of age. Ive seen them intubate every single patient because they don’t know how to use an LMA. I’ve seen them panic in the cath lab during an endo AAA screaming “where is the CRNA I can’t do this by myself.”

In the end, I think there is room for both of us. There is room for ACT practices and independent practices for both groups. There’s plenty to go around for all of us. I don’t ever want to see anesthesiologists eliminated. Instead, I want to work with and alongside you to provide the MOST patients with the BEST care both groups can provide.

This is so much BS. I’ve never heard “get the CRNA I can’t do this case” in my life.

 

[coffeebythelake]

We work with CRNAs. I must have those caring eyes because people are pretty open with me, or maybe they just assume I'm so low on the totem pole I don't matter. Either way, you're kidding yourself if you think this CRNA doesn't represent about 90% of them. They all seem to think this way.

The SRNAs going through their new doctorate CRNA programs are even more amped up. I feel like I'm always hearing about it and some have mentioned using their title in practice when they get out. I just smile, not getting into that pile of sh$t. One even asked me what I thought about using the made up name, "nurse anesthesiologist". GTFO. with a smile of course.

Trying to blur the titles. Not surprising. Nurses want to play doctor, until they **** up and then its "I'm only a nurse"

 

[AdmiralChz]

We work with CRNAs. I must have those caring eyes because people are pretty open with me, or maybe they just assume I'm so low on the totem pole I don't matter. Either way, you're kidding yourself if you think this CRNA doesn't represent about 90% of them. They all seem to think this way.

The SRNAs going through their new doctorate CRNA programs are even more amped up. I feel like I'm always hearing about it and some have mentioned using their title in practice when they get out. I just smile, not getting into that pile of sh$t. One even asked me what I thought about using the made up name, "nurse anesthesiologist". GTFO. with a smile of course.

Want to really ruffle some feathers? Introduce her to the patient as the “anesthesia nurse”

 

[Silo004]

it's not because they're good.
it's because the patient isn't that easy to kill

Lmao.

 

[deleted171991]

Lmao.

That's actually the serious Truth.

 

[Adrenaline Junky]

Wouldn’t it come to a point where if mid levels are given the right to independent practice organizations would soon realize they cannot handle anything that isnt a “textbook case” and therefore have it repealed? Seems like the compensation and job market is secure despite AAs and CRNAs, especially seeing all the comments and experiences shared in this thread.

 

[deleted697535]

Can anyone explain to me how this person on page 1 who got banned did some form of an operation where their supervisor(the attending anesthesiologist) said ''this is over my head, im out'. A big cardiac case it sounds like.
They rebelsandman decided to just crack on anyway...

It sounds like the op went well but for all the wrong reasons.
If a resident did that they would be finished. Immediatly gone from the program. Sacked. Putting patient in danger. Gone

How could this happen?

 

[deleted697535]

2 of our 4 anesthesiologists refuse to step foot in or be associated with any heart cases. 1 of our 7 CRNAs doesn’t do them. I did a 7 hour emergency heart on Easter a couple years back because the anesthesiologist refused to be involved “because I don’t do heart cases.” While I did this case placing all lines, floating a Swan, and doing a TEE that found previously undiagnosed 4+ MR, he did a colonoscopy case. His involvement included 2 minutes of “is everything ok in here, I’m going to get some lunch.” While we were on pump.

We do the 350 lbs OB patients. The PS 4 cases (we have no 5 cases, TAVRs, or transplants). I know plenty of CRNAs who do TAVRs, peds hearts, and transplants.

But hey, when the facts don’t matter and nobody will challenge you, you can just say whatever you want. Truth is irrelevant in echo chambers.

Please tell me this didn't happen?
You obviously have a supervisor who tapped out of the case but you still proceeded???

 

[Man o War]

Can anyone explain to me how this person on page 1 who got banned did some form of an operation where their supervisor(the attending anesthesiologist) said ''this is over my head, im out'. A big cardiac case it sounds like.
They rebelsandman decided to just crack on anyway...

It sounds like the op went well but for all the wrong reasons.
If a resident did that they would be finished. Immediatly gone from the program. Sacked. Putting patient in danger. Gone

How could this happen?

I guarantee you this didn’t happen.
The modern CRNA is ok with lying, embellishing, stretching to get what they want.
They claim Cochrane says MD=CRNA for gods sake.

 

[pgg]

Why did he get banned? What rule did he violate? He was deluded,

If you want to talk to deluded militant nurses bragging about their "boards" and writing heroic fanfic about themselves, allnurses.com is --> that way

 

[Man o War]

I would also bet a months worth of my fellowship pay that they wanted to go to medical school and couldn't make the grades. This is often where the ego stems from.

Yep. And that whole male nurse thing. Many of them can’t cope with that.

 

[anbuitachi]

only in america

 

[deleted171991]

Can anyone explain to me how this person on page 1 who got banned did some form of an operation where their supervisor(the attending anesthesiologist) said ''this is over my head, im out'. A big cardiac case it sounds like.
They rebelsandman decided to just crack on anyway...

It sounds like the op went well but for all the wrong reasons.
If a resident did that they would be finished. Immediatly gone from the program. Sacked. Putting patient in danger. Gone

How could this happen?

Supervised by surgeon or opt-out state.

I can see a number of (dumb) cardiac surgeons being happy with this arrangement. They love yes-men. Who needs TEE when we have the CVP and PA pressures? And who needs an unpleasant cardiac anesthesiologist to point out that graft ischemia on the TEE, for the whole OR to see? Or somebody to contradict them that the patient needs inotropy , not volume? Platelets, not FFP. Etc.

I have seen cardiac surgeons using medical hospitalists (not intensivists) or even NPs to cover their patients in the CTICU. Why? Because the real (surgical) intensivists would not be pushovers.

 

[acidbase1]

Please tell me this didn't happen?
You obviously have a supervisor who tapped out of the case but you still proceeded???

Happened to me all the time in residency. Big trauma case, attending would look at me and say “this is over my head, I’m out”.

 

[coffeebythelake]

Yep. And that whole male nurse thing. Many of them can’t cope with that.

murse
need to compensate for many things

 

[coffeebythelake]

Want to really ruffle some feathers? Introduce her to the patient as the “anesthesia nurse”

that isn't offensive at all. that is what they are - a nurse trained in anesthesia
my mentor calls them technicians. that might be considered offensive, not to mention confusing for the actual certified anesthesia technicians

 

[coffeebythelake]

Supervised by surgeon or opt-out state.

I can see a number of (dumb) cardiac surgeons being happy with this arrangement. They love yes-men. Who needs TEE when we have the CVP and PA pressures? And who needs an unpleasant cardiac anesthesiologist to point out that graft ischemia on the TEE, for the whole OR to see? Or somebody to contradict them that the patient needs inotropy , not volume? Platelets, not FFP. Etc.

I have seen cardiac surgeons using medical hospitalists (not intensivists) or even NPs to cover their patients in the CTICU. Why? Because the real (surgical) intensivists would not be pushovers.

this movement of independent practice CRNAs and AANA militancy can only exist with the support of some surgeons. i suspect there is a combination of "captain of the boat" mentality, irreverence for other medical services, or money involved. these are probably the cases we hear of when patients are transferred from "OSH" with complications

 

[crash2500]

I believe he practices in an opt out state so he was doing the cardiac case independently. The anesthesiologist was doing his own cases, not supervising him.
That being said, any ct surgeon who is ok doing a case with a nurse as the sole anesthesia provider is crazy.

Can anyone explain to me how this person on page 1 who got banned did some form of an operation where their supervisor(the attending anesthesiologist) said ''this is over my head, im out'. A big cardiac case it sounds like.
They rebelsandman decided to just crack on anyway...

It sounds like the op went well but for all the wrong reasons.
If a resident did that they would be finished. Immediatly gone from the program. Sacked. Putting patient in danger. Gone

How could this happen?

 

[anbuitachi]

Happened to me all the time in residency. Big trauma case, attending would look at me and say “this is over my head, I’m out”.

so you did all of them alone as a resident right

 

[acidbase1]

I have a really hard time believing said CRNA can adequately perform TEE. I’ve never seen a nurse do echo, I find it laughable

 

[acidbase1]

so you did all of them alone as a resident right

I was in independent practice during residency