This would be an odd way to get an LCME-accredited MD

[ImmunoDude]

I'm a US citizen, currently about to finish up my first year of University of Leeds' BSc in Microbiology with Immunology. I'm set to get a 2:1 (equivalent to a North American GPA 3.0-3.7). Assuming I keep this up for the next two years of my degree, I intend to attend International Medical University in Malaysia, which allows me to transfer to Dalhousie in Nova Scotia for my final two years. I'll have an LCME-accredited MD, which will make getting into a US residency much easier. Plus IMU is CA-approved, so this wouldn't compromise licensing in my home state. Plus, my total tution would be cheaper, $65,000 at IMU, $130,000 at Dalhousie, then going to SGU or RCSI, other medical school's I'm interested in that will accept my British undergrad degree.

The reason I decided to go to the UK for my undergrad is that a) being homeschooled and having a CA Board of Education HS equivalency certificate in lieu of a HS diploma would've made it difficult to get into a US undergrad course, b) didn't want to waste two years of time and fees doing GE, c) CA's budget mismanagement led to places at UCs and CSUs getting cut as they fired a whole bunch of faculty, d) immunology isn't really offered at undergrad level in the US for some odd reason, and e) I originally wanted to be a PhD scientist at a biopharmaceutical company, and UK undergrad science degrees are much more research-focused, especially at Leeds.

According to IMU's website, all I need is to get a 2:1 classification for my BSc, and get some letters of recommendation from academics and physicians. That should be easy, as my personal tutor is enamoured with me, and there are three physicians at my church; two GPs and one retired ENT surgeon. And to transfer into Dalhousie, they just want no failures on my IMU transcript (something which I've heard from ValueMD is easier said then done; medical schools that are easy to get admitted to tend to be very hard to stay in, as is the reverse).

If I'm successful, I plan to use my fourth year at Dalhousie to do US electives in radiological and surgical subspecialties, as I've been really interested in IR and its subspecialty of interventional oncology from reading the research in the field. I hope I can get into a DIRECT pathway program.

I'm a member of the ASM, The Antibody Society, The World Molecular Imaging Society, and The Society for Nuclear Medicine. Reading their journals have given me lots of interesting ideas for my degree's senior project (it's a good thing my tutor is the project module's director, as then I can pick whatever project I wish).

So, what advice do you have, other than to do well, and hope administrative screw-ups don't happen?

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[MedPR]

I have nothing useful to say, but I did want to mention that a 3.0GPA and a 3.7GPA are very, very different. Someone with a 3.0 wishes they had a 3.7, and someone with a 3.7 would never admit it is comparable to a 3.0.

It sounds like you are ahead of the game though. Good luck.

 

[ImmunoDude]

I have nothing useful to say, but I did want to mention that a 3.0GPA and a 3.7GPA are very, very different. Someone with a 3.0 wishes they had a 3.7, and someone with a 3.7 would never admit it is comparable to a 3.0.

It sounds like you are ahead of the game though. Good luck.

Well, 2:1 is British, and their degree classifications are much broader. Also, there's no exact way to compare the two. You get different ranges depending on who you ask. But a 2:1 is I know between 3.0 and 3.5. It really depends on the exact percentage (and doing this for Leeds is worse than others, because their percentage ranges are different. Here, 2:1 starts at 58.5%, elsewhere it starts at 65%; they changed it to be more fair with the awarding of 1st class honors)

And what did you mean by being "ahead of the game?"

 

[vc7777]

I'm a US citizen, currently about to finish up my first year of University of Leeds' BSc in Microbiology with Immunology. I'm set to get a 2:1 (equivalent to a North American GPA 3.0-3.7). Assuming I keep this up for the next two years of my degree, I intend to attend International Medical University in Malaysia, which allows me to transfer to Dalhousie in Nova Scotia for my final two years. I'll have an LCME-accredited MD, which will make getting into a US residency much easier. Plus IMU is CA-approved, so this wouldn't compromise licensing in my home state. Plus, my total tution would be cheaper, $65,000 at IMU, $130,000 at Dalhousie, then going to SGU or RCSI, other medical school's I'm interested in that will accept my British undergrad degree.

The reason I decided to go to the UK for my undergrad is that a) being homeschooled and having a CA Board of Education HS equivalency certificate in lieu of a HS diploma would've made it difficult to get into a US undergrad course, b) didn't want to waste two years of time and fees doing GE, c) CA's budget mismanagement led to places at UCs and CSUs getting cut as they fired a whole bunch of faculty, d) immunology isn't really offered at undergrad level in the US for some odd reason, and e) I originally wanted to be a PhD scientist at a biopharmaceutical company, and UK undergrad science degrees are much more research-focused, especially at Leeds.

According to IMU's website, all I need is to get a 2:1 classification for my BSc, and get some letters of recommendation from academics and physicians. That should be easy, as my personal tutor is enamoured with me, and there are three physicians at my church; two GPs and one retired ENT surgeon. And to transfer into Dalhousie, they just want no failures on my IMU transcript (something which I've heard from ValueMD is easier said then done; medical schools that are easy to get admitted to tend to be very hard to stay in, as is the reverse).

If I'm successful, I plan to use my fourth year at Dalhousie to do US electives in radiological and surgical subspecialties, as I've been really interested in IR and its subspecialty of interventional oncology from reading the research in the field. I hope I can get into a DIRECT pathway program.

I'm a member of the ASM, The Antibody Society, The World Molecular Imaging Society, and The Society for Nuclear Medicine. Reading their journals have given me lots of interesting ideas for my degree's senior project (it's a good thing my tutor is the project module's director, as then I can pick whatever project I wish).

So, what advice do you have, other than to do well, and hope administrative screw-ups don't happen?

First off - welcome to the nontrad forum.

I am not sure what you are looking for from your thread? It sounds like you have made your mind up to take a very convoluted path to medicine and even have have already decided upon some very competitive fellowships.

"The best laid plans of mice and men..."
​

My advice is for you to keep an open mind. Possibly the best way to use this forum is to read old threads and listen to what our community has to say. Finishing your first year of undergraduate is not the time to be so rigid in your thinking. To illustrate this, let me ask what would you do if this program/relationship between the two programs dissolves or changes? What then?

Now, I do admire your moxy - but be prepared for some honest and candid critique of your plan forward.

 

[ImmunoDude]

First off - welcome to the nontrad forum.

I am not sure what you are looking for from your thread? It sounds like you have made your mind up to take a very convoluted path to medicine and even have have already decided upon some very competitive fellowships.

"The best laid plans of mice and men..."
​

My advice is for you to keep an open mind. Possibly the best way to use this forum is to read old threads and listen to what our community has to say. Finishing your first year of undergraduate is not the time to be so rigid in your thinking. To illustrate this, let me ask what would you do if this program/relationship between the two programs dissolves or changes? What then?

Now, I do admire your moxy - but be prepared for some honest and candid critique of your plan forward.

I would plan to go to RCSI, SGU, or another one of IMU's PMSs, as every school they partner with is CA-approved, and since IMU is also CA-approved, it won't stop me from being licensed back home.

And if I can't get into med school at all, I would fall back on my alternate career, which would be a researcher for a biopharma co.

I was just asking for some realistic advice. Btw, Dalhousie and IMU have been partnered since IMU's inception 15 years ago, so I doubt they'll be going away anytime soon.

Once I'm in med school, all I need to do is get the grades and make connections.

 

[vc7777]

Tell me more about this "CA approved" medical schools? I'm not quite understanding?

Do you plan to do your residency and fellowships in California, the Caribbean, Canada, or the UK?

 

[ImmunoDude]

Tell me more about this "CA approved" medical schools? I'm not quite understanding?

Do you plan to do your residency and fellowships in California, the Caribbean, Canada, or the UK?

I plan on doing my training in the US, and pretty much every state medical board follows California's list of approved medical schools, and IMU and Dalhousie are on that list, which means I'm eligible for GME and can get my license there. I used to live in California, and I may want to do my training there. I know I want to practice there.

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

I plan on doing my training in the US, and pretty much every state medical board follows California's list of approved medical schools, and IMU and Dalhousie are on that list, which means I'm eligible for GME and can get my license there. I used to live in California, and I may want to do my training there. I know I want to practice there.

You do know that it will be very, very difficult for a FMG to get into a radiological or surgical residency, right? California approval or not, the competitive residencies you're interested in take almost no FMGs. By the time you graduate medical school, the competition for residency spots will be even fiercer, due to the increased number of US DO graduates. Would it be possible to transfer to a US college for your last two years, get a US undergrad degree and then apply to US medical schools? If you want to do a competitive residency here, that will make things a million times easier.

 

[ImmunoDude]

You do know that it will be very, very difficult for a FMG to get into a radiological or surgical residency, right? California approval or not, the competitive residencies you're interested in take almost no FMGs. By the time you graduate medical school, the competition for residency spots will be even fiercer, due to the increased number of US DO graduates. Would it be possible to transfer to a US college for your last two years, get a US undergrad degree and then apply to US medical schools? If you want to do a competitive residency here, that will make things a million times easier.

Holders of LCME-accredited degrees are not considered IMGs. All Canadian med schools are LCME-accredited. This is why Canadian med students can take electives in the US.

And no, transferring would be impossible because it's an entirely different system. I love my course, and it's not like not getting into med school would be the end of the world for me.

 

[Whiskeypunch]

Holders of LCME-accredited degrees are not considered IMGs. All Canadian med schools are LCME-accredited. This is why Canadian med students can take electives in the US.

And no, transferring would be impossible because it's an entirely different system. I love my course, and it's not like not getting into med school would be the end of the world for me.

You really should consider just applying to U.S. medical schools. It will afford you a dramatically better chance of achieving your residency/fellowship goals.

 

[ImmunoDude]

You really should consider just applying to U.S. medical schools. It will afford you a dramatically better chance of achieving your residency/fellowship goals.

The thing is I have a UK degree, which is not in the same format at all as a US one, and isn't accepted by US medical schools. Also, doing a post-bacc or SMP is too expensive. Trust me, I mean it. My parents aren't going to be paying for anything that doesn't guarantee me a good chance at becoming an MD. At least going to IMU, even if I don't manage to transfer into Dalhousie, I can still go to NUI-Galway or another UK or Aussie PMS, and do some US electives to make myself shine.

And I'd be perfectly happy doing IM. I really just want to become a physician of some sort, specialty isn't that important.

 

[plauto]

At the end of this you will be an FMG. As already mentioned above, getting an IR or GS residency would be basically impossible. Things are getting tougher for FMGs also in easier specialties to match because of the influx of increased med school enrollment.
Many of us don't/didn't have money. You will make it work going to school in the US. If being in the US is your final goal (MD or PhD), attend school in the US.

 

[ImmunoDude]

At the end of this you will be an FMG. As already mentioned above, getting an IR or GS residency would be basically impossible. Things are getting tougher for FMGs also in easier specialties to match because of the influx of increased med school enrollment.
Many of us don't/didn't have money. You will make it work going to school in the US. If being in the US is your final goal (MD or PhD), attend school in the US.

No, I won't be an IMG, according to the ECFMG:

ECFMG defines an international medical graduate (IMG) as a physician who received his/her basic medical degree or qualification from a medical school located outside the United States and Canada. The location of your medical school, not your citizenship, is what determines whether you are an IMG. This means that U.S. citizens who graduated from medical schools outside the United States and Canada are considered IMGs. Non-U.S. citizens who graduated from medical schools in the United States and Canada are not considered IMGs.

http://www.ecfmg.org/forms/ecfmg-certification.html

So I'll be an AMG at the end of this.

 

[dmf2682]

I would just verify that you're graduating from dalhousie and not that foreign school. The reason I say this is sometimes these partnerships are put in place for folks in other countries to get experience in the first world, not the other way around. I don't know for certain but it sounds like this partnership just means you'll be doing clinical rotations in Canada before you go back to your home med school for graduation. Iirc there are Caribbean schools that do this with hospitals in NY.

 

[ImmunoDude]

I would just verify that you're graduating from dalhousie and not that foreign school. The reason I say this is sometimes these partnerships are put in place for folks in other countries to get experience in the first world, not the other way around. I don't know for certain but it sounds like this partnership just means you'll be doing clinical rotations in Canada before you go back to your home med school for graduation. Iirc there are Caribbean schools that do this with hospitals in NY.

The degree is awarded by Dalhousie. There are a few guys who did that practicing in the US and Canada, and they always state their MD is from Dalhousie, just that they transferred from IMU. Some went to their other North American PMS, Jefferson, instead, but I can't since I'm a US citizen. One's now a plastic surgeon in Arizona private practice, another is a professor of vascular surgery in Baltimore.

http://gho.medicine.dal.ca/international-students/

Also, the fact I'll be a Canadian student means I'm eligible for a lot more US electives that Caribbean grads usually can't get into, since I won't be considered international.

Plus I'll be at a university hospital for third year clerkships, instead of a community or at best, university-affiliated one.

After a good few months of research, I've determined this is the most cost-effective way to get my MD. SGU and RCSI are more expensive, and the former will grant me two years of USCE, but IMG status, while the latter will have both problems. This way I'll have USCE and be an AMG.

I'll make sure to fill my fourth year elective time with surgical and radiological rotations. My backup plan would be IM, as I can still get into a DIRECT pathway program after PGY-2.

 

[dmf2682]

The degree is awarded by Dalhousie. There are a few guys who did that practicing in the US and Canada, and they always state their MD is from Dalhousie, just that they transferred from IMU. Some went to their other North American PMS, Jefferson, instead, but I can't since I'm a US citizen. One's now a plastic surgeon in Arizona private practice, another is a professor of vascular surgery in Baltimore.

http://gho.medicine.dal.ca/international-students/

Also, the fact I'll be a Canadian student means I'm eligible for a lot more US electives that Caribbean grads usually can't get into, since I won't be considered international.

Plus I'll be at a university hospital for third year clerkships, instead of a community or at best, university-affiliated one.

After a good few months of research, I've determined this is the most cost-effective way to get my MD. SGU and RCSI are more expensive, and the former will grant me two years of USCE, but IMG status, while the latter will have both problems. This way I'll have USCE and be an AMG.

I'll make sure to fill my fourth year elective time with surgical and radiological rotations. My backup plan would be IM, as I can still get into a DIRECT pathway program after PGY-2.

Imu's website says if you're a permanent resident or citizen in north America you can't go there.

http://www.imu.edu.my/imu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=115&Itemid=330

 

[Myuu]

...you know, I really don't think you understand this process or the statistical realities of your situation.

 

[dmf2682]

Pretty skeptical of any medical school that also offers a doctor of Chinese medicine.

Long story short, if this has really been around for 15 years I would think this would be a well known avenue for foreign students to come practice in the US. Even if it is viable, residencies would see the coursework at a foreign medical school and have doubts of their own.

Good luck, op

 

[Whiskeypunch]

The thing is I have a UK degree, which is not in the same format at all as a US one, and isn't accepted by US medical schools. Also, doing a post-bacc or SMP is too expensive. Trust me, I mean it. My parents aren't going to be paying for anything that doesn't guarantee me a good chance at becoming an MD. At least going to IMU, even if I don't manage to transfer into Dalhousie, I can still go to NUI-Galway or another UK or Aussie PMS, and do some US electives to make myself shine.

And I'd be perfectly happy doing IM. I really just want to become a physician of some sort, specialty isn't that important.

You know you are allowed to do things in life that mommy and daddy don't pay for.

Grow up and take out federal loans like a big kid.

 

[plauto]

FMG...AMG...you'll still be at a huge disadvantage...good luck with everything. Take some time to reflect and you'll see that your plan will very likely backfire on you a few years down the road.

 

[ImmunoDude]

FMG...AMG...you'll still be at a huge disadvantage...good luck with everything. Take some time to reflect and you'll see that your plan will very likely backfire on you a few years down the road.

I am. I'm just going to do what all my friends say to and are doing, and go to SGU. Well-recognized, guaranteed USCE, many grads got into competitive residencies like radiology and ophthalmology, a few even got neurosurgery. And one of my Dad's friends is a professor there.

They'll accept my degree, so I just have to study for MCAT.

 

[Whiskeypunch]

I am. I'm just going to do what all my friends say to and are doing, and go to SGU. Well-recognized, guaranteed USCE, many grads got into competitive residencies like radiology and ophthalmology, a few even got neurosurgery. And one of my Dad's friends is a professor there.

They'll accept my degree, so I just have to study for MCAT.

Oh dear lord don't do that. Those schools are going to go bankrupt in 10 years. The number of AMG's + 1k FMG's = number of residency slots in like 2017, IMG's are going to be &#$@ed.

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

I am. I'm just going to do what all my friends say to and are doing, and go to SGU. Well-recognized, guaranteed USCE, many grads got into competitive residencies like radiology and ophthalmology, a few even got neurosurgery. And one of my Dad's friends is a professor there.

They'll accept my degree, so I just have to study for MCAT.

The Caribbean would be just as bad as your previous plan to get into a US residency through the back door. Do a search on the disadvantages of Caribbean med schools. Basically they're only after your money, they could care less whether you pass or fail their classes, match rates are bad for noncompetitive stuff and practically nonexistent for the rads and surgery you're interested in. If you go this route, you could easily end up 200k in debt with no degree or no residency match to show for it.

If you truly want to do rads or surgery, your best option will be to find a state with a few medical colleges and lax state residency requirements. Move there, establish residency, and do a year of postbac at the state's college. If you've established residency in time to get instate tuition, it won't cost that much. If you can work this into a second major so you're graduating from a US college, so much the better. Go to the state's medical school and you'll be in good shape to get the residency you want.

 

[ImmunoDude]

The Caribbean would be just as bad as your previous plan to get into a US residency through the back door. Do a search on the disadvantages of Caribbean med schools. Basically they're only after your money, they could care less whether you pass or fail their classes, match rates are bad for noncompetitive stuff and practically nonexistent for the rads and surgery you're interested in. If you go this route, you could easily end up 200k in debt with no degree or no residency match to show for it.

If you truly want to do rads or surgery, your best option will be to find a state with a few medical colleges and lax state residency requirements. Move there, establish residency, and do a year of postbac at the state's college. If you've established residency in time to get instate tuition, it won't cost that much. If you can work this into a second major so you're graduating from a US college, so much the better. Go to the state's medical school and you'll be in good shape to get the residency you want.

Um, I checked SGU's match list. Several are in DR, and several are in PGY-2 surgery. One guy is even doing ESNR.

 

[Law2Doc]

Um, I checked SGU's match list. Several are in DR, and several are in PGY-2 surgery. One guy is even doing ESNR.

It's an issue of percentage versus volume/ raw numbers. As a percentage really nobody from the Caribbean makes it into rads or optho. But out of the hundreds of people that come through that door year after year yes they will have 1 or 2 that land something choice, that are exceptions to the rule, and they will play this up like crazy so that prospective applicants think it's realistic. In general the exception to the rule won't be you. And you don't know what kind of pull or background etc they had to get that leg up over the norm.

As for your other plan, I kind of doubt that if you have done some of your medical education in Malaysia the typical adcom is going to consider your schooling functionally equivalent to a US school rather than lump you in with the IMGs. Good luck with that.

 

[notbobtrustme]

Why make a hard road even harder.

Go to a US/Canada med school and don't look back.

 

[ImmunoDude]

It's an issue of percentage versus volume/ raw numbers. As a percentage really nobody from the Caribbean makes it into rads or optho. But out of the hundreds of people that come through that door year after year yes they will have 1 or 2 that land something choice, that are exceptions to the rule, and they will play this up like crazy so that prospective applicants think it's realistic. In general the exception to the rule won't be you. And you don't know what kind of pull or background etc they had to get that leg up over the norm.

As for your other plan, I kind of doubt that if you have done some of your medical education in Malaysia the typical adcom is going to consider your schooling functionally equivalent to a US school rather than lump you in with the IMGs. Good luck with that.

Yes, I know it's going to be hard. My "improper" high school education made it impossible for me to get into a US undergrad university, yet I found a way to get my undergrad education. This is going to be no different. I'm used to having to play up my strengths and downplay my weaknesses. I'm used to having to find alternate ways when traditional doors aren't open. If I wasn't like that, I would've just given up and worked at McDonald's.

And I'm deciding to go to SGU, which is a known value to residency adcoms. Several have become chief residents at their programs, so obviously SGU produces high quality physicians.

And checking SGU match lists, I see DR every year.

It's not what you know or where you come from, it's who you know and who you are. And I plan on making myself look like God's gift to medicine during rotations. Marketing is everything. Adcoms want the best person for the job. Would you rather have a Harvard grad who can't manage a heart attack to save his or his patient's life, or an IMG who can?

Our country needs to stop being elitist, and remember that without foreigners, it wouldn't exist.

One of my Dad's friends is a pulmonologist who graduated from India, and another is a urologist who graduated from Lebanon. Several department heads at my local trauma center are IMGs, including the head of radiation oncology.

 

[dmf2682]

 

[notbobtrustme]

One of my Dad's friends is a pulmonologist who graduated from India, and another is a urologist who graduated from Lebanon. Several department heads at my local trauma center are IMGs, including the head of radiation oncology.

There's a big difference between real IMGs, who are often the best their country offers, and SGU, which basically takes anyone with a pulse and a checkbook.

Not saying that succeeding from SGU is impossible (although it may be by the time you graduate), but the road is that much harder. 40-60% of incoming SGU students outright fail because SGU and other Caribbean schools offer little to no support. If you think you can beat those odds, then go for it. However, taking the time to actually go US-MD/DO will be far more secure than rolling the dice in the Caribean.

 

[augeremt]

Yes, I know it's going to be hard. My "improper" high school education made it impossible for me to get into a US undergrad university, yet I found a way to get my undergrad education.

I'm going to call BS on this because you can get into a US undergrad university after being homeschooled. I know plenty of people who have.

Also, why are you making things harder on yourself? It sounds like you look for the most convoluted way to get your education and go that route. It doesn't have to be so hard!

With regards to the medical profession, there are no shortcuts. You have to jump through the hoops just like everybody else. While there are some IMGs that get residency positions, the statistics are not in your favor and your plan hardly gives you "a guarantee of a good chance of becoming an MD." Your words, not mine.

The greatest guarantee of successfully matching into any specialty is a US/Canadian medical education. While it is possible to succeed in the Caribbean, it's a much harder road that's often not in your favor.

Our country needs to stop being elitist, and remember that without foreigners, it wouldn't exist.

One of my Dad's friends is a pulmonologist who graduated from India, and another is a urologist who graduated from Lebanon. Several department heads at my local trauma center are IMGs, including the head of radiation oncology.

And it's not an elitism thing against foreign graduates. I, too, know a bunch of foreign docs who are amazing. It's just that the US needs to give preference to the students who were educated in this country. Many other countries do this with regards to jobs and work visas (giving preference to its own citizens before bringing in people from the outside), so medical education shouldn't be any different, especially since the government pays a large chunk of the salaries of residents.

I'm all for immigration and giving foreigners a chance (after-all, I'm an immigrant myself), but this country would do just fine without foreign doctors. Yes, some of our best and brightest are foreigners but overall, medicine in the US is one profession that doesn't need outside help.

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

I'm used to having to find alternate ways when traditional doors aren't open. If I wasn't like that, I would've just given up and worked at McDonald's.

That's admirable, but sometimes you have to make sure the door is in fact locked before you try climbing in the bathroom window. Try and do a postbac in the US, either formal or informal, and from there go to a US medical school. In all probability this will work out much better for you than going to SGU. Go to SGU only after you have exhausted all possibilities of getting into a US or Canadian (directly to Canadian, not via Malaysia) medical school. For that matter, what will you do if SGU doesn't accept you? Apply to other schools in the Caribbean that are even worse, and will be even more likely to screw you over in the long run? SGU may be relatively easy to get into, but you still can't bank on going to one specific school.

 

[vc7777]

OP - I am confused. Why isn't your homeschooling high-school equivalency good enough for an American undergrad? Did you not complete some parts of the basic high school education? There is something here we are not learning? Also - What happened to IMU Malaysia? I thought you were going to make that work? What changed? The program still seems to be in existence, and you said it will be around for quite some time? What gives?

Couple of more thoughts - if your parents are not going to pay for a post-bacc because it doesn't have "a high probability" of getting you to where you want to be - then why are they willing to pay much, MUCH more money for a Caribbean school which have shaky reputations (even SGU)?

Finally - you have mentioned that you are OK with not pursuing medicine. I am not sure if you are serious about this sentiment or not. The general consensus on our thread is this: "If you can be happy doing anything else OTHER than medicine; then you should not go into medicine." If this is true - then great! you don't need to waste anymore money worrying about medicine.

PS - I think you are showing a very rudimentary understanding of the nature of a SGU graduate.

tl;dr: Per my original post: Keep an Open Mind.

 

[Law2Doc]

...

And checking SGU match lists, I see DR every year.
...
It's not what you know or where you come from, it's who you know and who you are. And I plan on making myself look like God's gift to medicine during rotations...

again, it's a numbers game. Out of the many hundreds of people that go this route, most of whom become the victims if attrition or being held back for various reasons, one or two making it into DR a year isn't many. Not even half a percent chance. You have a better chance becoming rich gambling in Vegas. Again, you can't realistically bank on being the exception to the rule.

As for rocking your rotations, bear in mind that the Caribbean schools generally have agreements with various community hospitals around the country to offer rotations for their students. Many are thrown together haphazardly, and are often not the functional equivalent of the rotations you get at US allo schools, and they are not LCME accredited, and so the PDs don't weight them equivalently. So you are already at a big disadvantage even before you set foot on the wards. I wouldn't expect stellar performance on rotations to make a huge difference. Doing well and having high Step scores will be pretty much mandatory for Caribbean grads to have a shot, but the bottom line is that most of the doors open to offshore educated students will still be the less competitive things in the less desirable locales. And that's the top 40% of offshore grads -- the rest get nothing. And that's today -- things are going to get much tighter now that the number if US students is increasing and pre matches are a thing of the past.

So basically I think it's fair to say that today Caribbean is a hail Mary second chance for some to become a doctor, but hardly a realistic path to a competitive residency.

 

[Law2Doc]

...

And it's not an elitism thing against foreign graduates. I, too, know a bunch of foreign docs who are amazing. It's just that the US needs to give preference to the students who were educated in this country. Many other countries do this with regards to jobs and work visas (giving preference to its own citizens before bringing in people from the outside), so medical education shouldn't be any different, especially since the government pays a large chunk of the salaries of residents...

it's often less about giving preference to the US as a national sentiment and more about concerns about adequacy of training by programs that lack LCME accreditation. (eg Canadian med school grads don't face the same barriers). A lot of the offshore schools teach to the steps, contract with community hospitals for bare bones rotations, and otherwise miss the ball in providing an equivalent medical school experience. Without the LCMEs blessing, PDs have to assume this is the case. So these grads generally don't do well in the head to head competition for spots against US grads, and do better landing the noncompetitive spots that never fill. Prematch used to be a fruitful avenue, but this has gone away.

 

[AliceNWndrlnd]

The thing is I have a UK degree, which is not in the same format at all as a US one, and isn't accepted by US medical schools.

This is not necessarily true. I would research US based schools (both MD/and DO) and contact them directly. The US has agreements with many international schools that offer direct equivalency. And the University of California already has a relationship with the school you are attending along with many other schools.(http://studyabroad.leeds.ac.uk/documents/worldwide_partners_at_11.05_.2012_.pdf) You would have to get your transcripts evaluated and converted to the US GPA system, but don't assume because you are studying in the UK, that you are automatically excluded from US medical schools.

 

[Buzz Me]

(1) It scares me that within a 3-hour span you changed your set plan of going from the UK/Australia to IMU/Canada to attending SGU. Did you really research the latter option? How did you pick that school over the other ones in the "Big 4"? Did you just compare their match lists?

(2) Although it's good to be hopeful and ambitious, never plan on being one of those very rare exceptions in your quest to become a physician - sure it's possible to be one of those very rare people that matches into Radiology (or some other competitive field) from a Caribbean school, but more than likely you'll be one of the majority who matches into something less competitive. Not saying it's impossible, just that the deck is heavily stacked against you.

(3) You also owe it to yourself to keep an open mind until you go through your clinical rotations during med school to see what you're truly interested in. You won't really know what IR is like until you rotate through it. Please don't rule out any other fields until you've seen firsthand what they're like.

(4) Planning out this convoluted plan that makes many assumptions and hopes for stability in a medical education system that's rapidly evolving is very, VERY risky. I understand your sentiment - you're trying to plan for a future practice that's tailored to your perceived interests and strengths. But that's at least 11-14 years away. That's like a kindergartener trying to choose what college to attend.

(5) Right now, your focus should be on doing as well as possible in college and doing more research on US MD and DO schools. Everything else can serve as a backup plan.

 

[fj90]

Hey,

Did you see this?

For residency:

"Due to current provincial requirements Canadian Universities do not accept international students who are not Canadian permanent residents or Canadian citizens for residency. Additionally, IMU students are not permitted to match to Partner Medical Schools in countries where they have citizenship or permanent residency."

So assuming that you're not a Canadian PR/ Citizen, you'd probably be trying to match into US residency (still better match rates that IMGs). Can't match into CaRMS (in case that was your intention).

Edit: Oh, this has been covered. And you've decided to go to SGU? Fast decision there!

 

[Myuu]

...is there something that keeps you from getting a GED, doing a year or two at a community college, and then transferring to a full university?

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

...is there something that keeps you from getting a GED, doing a year or two at a community college, and then transferring to a full university?

You don't even need to go to a CC first to do this. The state college I went to for my first round of undergrad accepted me based on SAT scores alone, and those weren't all that great either. In retrospect I should have dropped out of high school my senior year, immediately gotten my GED, and started at the same college a year early.

In any case, it looks like the OP dropped out of the conversation, so either we convinced him to go to the US or he's busy working on his Caribbean applications.

 

[MemberName345]

.

 

[AliceNWndrlnd]

Since he just finished his first year, the OP has a ways to go before he can apply to any US school. If he is still there, I say contact some US schools and find out what they have to say. Since you are a US citizen, and the University of Leeds is and internationally recognized school with US affiliations, you may have more options than you think.