Those crazy scientologists

[TheMightyAngus]

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16846962/

 

[psipsina]

wow, I get that the parents really are afraid of the "spiritual damage" this test might cause, but at the same point, the kid has the right not to be permanently disabled on the basis of a religious belief they may/may not even end up believing in. Thats rough, but my gut says you have to protect the kid from proven scientific danger.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

scientologist/fundamentalist christians. 😱 I don't think those two go together well, do they? Quick, some funny person -- make up a good joke.

 

[DetroitRocket]

These would probably be the first ones to ask the state to pay for their huge bills if something preventable went wrong.😀

 

[Doctor Bagel]

These would probably be the first ones to ask the state to pay for their huge bills if something preventable went wrong.😀

That was my thought, too. Then they'd view it like a sign of god providing for them. I'm curious -- how much damage would be done if you waited a week to do the tests? On the face of it, it seems like a minor request, but I'm really ignorant about the timelines here.

This is really a tough rights issue because people should have the right to practice their religion as they see fit and they should have the right to "ensure their children's salvation" or whatever. However, the kid has rights, too, and it's hard to figure out a balance between the two. Obviously the courts here have decided that you don't have a constitutional right to avoid these tests. Good thing I don't have Lexis/Nexis access because I'd probably be tempted to research this instead of studying for my physio test tomorrow.

 

[DragonWell]

In the case of Jehovah's Witnesses, my understanding is that the court's have been pretty clear that parents do not have the right to use their religous beliefs to dictate medical decisions for their offspring when such a decision would pose a danger to the child. If the child dies as a result of such a decision, the parents may be charged with first degree murder. http://www.ajwrb.org/

Luckily, I believe the Witnesses also have an "out" in the sense that being forced to take blood by the court is not a sin, since the intention of the person is being overridden by the courts.

 

[psipsina]

That was my thought, too. Then they'd view it like a sign of god providing for them. I'm curious -- how much damage would be done if you waited a week to do the tests? On the face of it, it seems like a minor request, but I'm really ignorant about the timelines here.

This is really a tough rights issue because people should have the right to practice their religion as they see fit and they should have the right to "ensure their children's salvation" or whatever. However, the kid has rights, too, and it's hard to figure out a balance between the two. Obviously the courts here have decided that you don't have a constitutional right to avoid these tests. Good thing I don't have Lexis/Nexis access because I'd probably be tempted to research this instead of studying for my physio test tomorrow.

With PKU I believe a few days of not being given the special formula can cause permanent mental ******ation, which is the reason for the law and the time frame.

 

[DragonWell]

With PKU I believe a few days of not being given the special formula can cause permanent mental ******ation, which is the reason for the law and the time frame.

The initial PKU test is often negative since the infant hasn't ingested enough protein for the metabolites to show up, so the test is often repeated after 48 hours. According to Lippincott Biochem, "Treatment must begin during the first seven to ten days of life to prevent mental ******ation". p270

 

[Wizard of Oz]

Cool avatar DragonWell. How have I not seen you here before?

I have handled these heel stick tests for the lab before, and unfortunately it takes more than 7-10 days to get the results back since the card has to be mailed to state health. At least in the case of PKU, I'd want the test done ASAP. Given the incidence of the disorder and speaking from a lawsuit/risk management perspective, I think that I'd just have the family sign a stack of waivers and have them come back in a few days to avoid the headache. If there was really something wrong with the kid, it would turn the parents into the villains.

I have some pretty big issues with the whole religion/science/healthcare grey areas, but then again, I live in a state that continues to try to teach unprovable theories to our children in the name of science on a yearly basis (see under my avatar).

With the extreme beliefs that I've witnessed, I'm inclined to take the Jack Nicholson position from "A Few Good Men..."

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way.

The problem comes when people want to have their cake and eat it too. God brings us children, but when a tornado wipes your house out, no that was Mother Nature (even if your insurance company calls it an act of God). God brings us the science that creates medicine (Pfizer has his email address in exchange for company stock), but when that science tells us that we are embryonically homologous to fish, then the science is evil.

I think I'm gonna become an anesthesiologist. Okay, ma'am, I have your epidural, but you have to tell me whether or not primates have a common ancestor first. No, you say? Okay well since this stuff works on all primates, I'm going to have to find something human-specific just for you. I'll get back to you on that one.

So to those who want a natural process, more power to you. I know a midwife who can help you with a natural birth. If you come to the hospital for healthcare, though, don't be surprised when we want to provide it.

 

[psipsina]

Cool avatar DragonWell. How have I not seen you here before?

I have handled these heel stick tests for the lab before, and unfortunately it takes more than 7-10 days to get the results back since the card has to be mailed to state health. At least in the case of PKU, I'd want the test done ASAP. Given the incidence of the disorder and speaking from a lawsuit/risk management perspective, I think that I'd just have the family sign a stack of waivers and have them come back in a few days to avoid the headache. If there was really something wrong with the kid, it would turn the parents into the villains.

I have some pretty big issues with the whole religion/science/healthcare grey areas, but then again, I live in a state that continues to try to teach unprovable theories to our children in the name of science on a yearly basis (see under my avatar).

With the extreme beliefs that I've witnessed, I'm inclined to take the Jack Nicholson position from "A Few Good Men..."

"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way."

The problem comes when people want to have their cake and eat it too. God brings us children, but when a tornado wipes your house out, no that was Mother Nature (even if your insurance company calls it an act of God). God brings us the science that creates medicine (Pfizer has his email address in exchange for company stock), but when that science tells us that we are embryonically homologous to fish, then the science is evil.

I think I'm gonna become an anesthesiologist. Okay, ma'am, I have your epidural, but you have to tell me whether or not primates have a common ancestor first. No, you say? Okay well since this stuff works on all primates, I'm going to have to find something human-specific just for you. I'll get back to you on that one.

So to those who want a natural process, more power to you. I know a midwife who can help you with a natural birth. If you come to the hospital for healthcare, though, don't be surprised when we want to provide it.

my a$$ off!! bravo

 

[sunnyjohn]

For the love of Adam it's a HEEL STICK!!!! Having done tons of them, the kid will barley feel it if done right... SHEESH!

After the trauma of being yanked from a nice warm quiet uterus into a loud cold OB room do ya really think the kid is gonna notice a HEEL STICK!!!

Sometimes I wish pastors would take 5 minutes to preach common sense on Sundays.

 

[DragonWell]

Cool avatar DragonWell. How have I not seen you here before?

Thanks to Dr. Mom I am now the artist formely known as bodymechanic. I usually restrict my lurking to the DO side of the fence, but cardiac phys has motivated me to new levels of procrastination...

 

[turkleton]

What I don't understand is why the law chimes in on certain moral lapses but is silent on others. What happened to the state stepping in for the best interest of the child, from potentially harmful action of parents. I recall a case where parents refusing chemo for their kid on a very curable case of ALL- and a court mandate was sought to intervene. So where is it here? What really cooks my grits is religion entering a debate and choosing sides where it is most convenient. Stem cells and abortions- fervent, nonsensical (my opinion) clamor about being pro life. Potentially prevent, harmlessly might I add, childhood crippling diseases? Stop treading on our religious views. C'mon.

 

[Wizard of Oz]

What I don't understand is why the law chimes in on certain moral lapses but is silent on others. What happened to the state stepping in for the best interest of the child, from potentially harmful action of parents. I recall a case where parents refusing chemo for their kid on a very curable case of ALL- and a court mandate was sought to intervene. So where is it here? What really cooks my grits is religion entering a debate and choosing sides where it is most convenient. Stem cells and abortions- fervent, nonsensical (my opinion) clamor about being pro life. Potentially prevent, harmlessly might I add, childhood crippling diseases? Stop treading on our religious views. C'mon.

👍

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

This is what I have a problem with:

“We just want to lay the groundwork so that other parents have better choices than we did,” Ray Spiering said. “We weren’t so much against the test. We just wanted a short delay. In a sense, we kind of won”

Putting your child at risk like this because you want to make some kind of statement is just absurd. I think we'd all be better off if the Scientologists believed in self-sterilization.

 

[45408]

violates religious tenants? are those the people that live in churches?

 

[southerncomfort]

For the love of Adam it's a HEEL STICK!!!! Having done tons of them, the kid will barley feel it if done right... SHEESH!

After the trauma of being yanked from a nice warm quiet uterus into a loud cold OB room do ya really think the kid is gonna notice a HEEL STICK!!!

Sometimes I wish pastors would take 5 minutes to preach common sense on Sundays.

But you're forgetting the whole "Silent Birth" thing! You know, where NO ONE makes a peep--not even the laboring mother!--for fear of damaging kiddo from day one. 🙄 And then kiddo can't get therapy down the line, because psychiatry=bad, so they just need vitamins and exercise.

And while we're somewhat on the topic of Scientologists and their babies--is it just me, or is the Tom Cruise-Katie Holmes offspring just not an attractive child? I know all babies are supposed to be cute and all, but the TomKitten just is not!