Thoughts? AMA Article - Podiatry vs Ortho

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Forgive me if this has been beaten like a dead horse before on here, but I figured I would come to the most toxic place on the internet for pre meds, med students, residents, fellows, attendings, retired attendings, and retired attendings wives. I'm sure the consensus will be "who the hell cares?", but still wanted opinions on here since it seems to me at least that most patients don't know the difference and wonder if this article could sway "naive" patients in one direction or the other. As a student, I didn't care too much for this article, to put it lightly. It does not deter me from the field, but I am so curious as to why the AMA has had a hard on with podiatrists for quite awhile now (unless its literally just the AMA president).

***DISCLAIMER: Love the field of podiatry and can't wait to practice blah blah blah etc etc this is not a student who is trying to dig at the field or talk smack, or having doubts, literally just want to see what people think.

Article was published June 13, 2024. Enjoy.

What's the difference between orthopaedic surgeons and podiatrists?

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AMA has been campaigning on scope creep for a while. Probably since they have been losing bigly to nurses (lol).

They publish stuff like this to say "hey we are doing something" while their membership continues to decline.

Much like the Ortho article published (and the one before that) that no one read, nothing will change and we will keep existing.

The only people reading those articles are the ones who don't like podiatry as it is.

Edit: Also, for the future, if you are ever thinking about attending an event that may support these organizations in any way - vote with your dollar and don't attend.
 
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It’s an opinion article and makes very broad claims and doesn’t explicitly show any statistical data

This is a notoriously criticized paper published
Surgeon Type and Outcomes After Inpatient Ankle Arthrodesis ... : JBJS

This link is to LCR response followed by theirs
https://cdn-links.lww.com/permalink/jbjsel/a/jbjsel_101_2_2019_04_03_chan_1701555-el01_sdc1.pdf

There’s also a collective paper response by a lot of heavy hitters in our field that was well received but I can’t find it

Do with the information as you wish, but don’t ever expect a podiatry organization like APMA to ever combat the misinformation spewed out there
 
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Forgive me if this has been beaten like a dead horse before on here, but I figured I would come to the most toxic place on the internet for pre meds, med students, residents, fellows, attendings, retired attendings, and retired attendings wives. I'm sure the consensus will be "who the hell cares?", but still wanted opinions on here since it seems to me at least that most patients don't know the difference and wonder if this article could sway "naive" patients in one direction or the other. As a student, I didn't care too much for this article, to put it lightly. It does not deter me from the field, but I am so curious as to why the AMA has had a hard on with podiatrists for quite awhile now (unless its literally just the AMA president).

***DISCLAIMER: Love the field of podiatry and can't wait to practice blah blah blah etc etc this is not a student who is trying to dig at the field or talk smack, or having doubts, literally just want to see what people think.

Article was published June 13, 2024. Enjoy.

What's the difference between orthopaedic surgeons and podiatrists?
Thank you, this means a lot to all of us here. A toxic environment is a feature not a bug here within Podiatry
 
>Claims podiatrists not equipped to treat the body.

>Ortho still consults us to handle feet

Throw a wound or a crappy health status on a patient and all of a sudden we are the ones ortho looks to to replace them for patient treatment.

These articles are all bs. They ignore reality. I pray every day ortho will steal this stuff off of me but they don’t.

No MD or DO wants to touch anything below the ankle with exposed tissue. And that’s where podiatry thrives. You can have a hospital patient with foot wounds and 9 times out of 10 the ED doc, IM doc, ID doc, Vasc doc, or ortho doc won’t even remove the dressing but will write a physical assessment of how the foot looked.

That’s why podiatry will always still thrive despite all these bs opinion pieces from desk jockeys
 
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Forgive me if this has been beaten like a dead horse before on here, but I figured I would come to the most toxic place on the internet for pre meds, med students, residents, fellows, attendings, retired attendings, and retired attendings wives. I'm sure the consensus will be "who the hell cares?", but still wanted opinions on here since it seems to me at least that most patients don't know the difference and wonder if this article could sway "naive" patients in one direction or the other. As a student, I didn't care too much for this article, to put it lightly. It does not deter me from the field, but I am so curious as to why the AMA has had a hard on with podiatrists for quite awhile now (unless its literally just the AMA president).

***DISCLAIMER: Love the field of podiatry and can't wait to practice blah blah blah etc etc this is not a student who is trying to dig at the field or talk smack, or having doubts, literally just want to see what people think.

Article was published June 13, 2024. Enjoy.

What's the difference between orthopaedic surgeons and podiatrists?

Disgraceful

If the AMA is going to attack our profession, at least be truthful about our education and training.
 
Forgive me if this has been beaten like a dead horse before on here, but I figured I would come to the most toxic place on the internet for pre meds, med students, residents, fellows, attendings, retired attendings, and retired attendings wives. I'm sure the consensus will be "who the hell cares?", but still wanted opinions on here since it seems to me at least that most patients don't know the difference and wonder if this article could sway "naive" patients in one direction or the other. As a student, I didn't care too much for this article, to put it lightly. It does not deter me from the field, but I am so curious as to why the AMA has had a hard on with podiatrists for quite awhile now (unless its literally just the AMA president).

***DISCLAIMER: Love the field of podiatry and can't wait to practice blah blah blah etc etc this is not a student who is trying to dig at the field or talk smack, or having doubts, literally just want to see what people think.

Article was published June 13, 2024. Enjoy.

What's the difference between orthopaedic surgeons and podiatrists?
This is one of the worst articles I have ever read. Filled with misinformation. Biggest issue is our profession has zero spine and the APMA will not respond to this. Someone should send it to them if anyone has any connections to them directly.
 
This is one of the worst articles I have ever read. Filled with misinformation. Biggest issue is our profession has zero spine and the APMA will not respond to this. Someone should send it to them if anyone has any connections to them directly.

I did (below). ABPM is also responding.

And APMA did send a letter and had a good post on X re: this.

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The article tries to compare ortho vs pod but uses a hilariously skewed sample size: 11,115 patients vs just 630 patients.
That's like comparing an elephant to a mouse and claiming they're the same weight.
 
The article tries to compare ortho vs pod but uses a hilariously skewed sample size: 11,115 patients vs just 630 patients.
That's like comparing an elephant to a mouse and claiming they're the same weight.

Every article produced by members of AOFAS when comparing outcomes for TAR and ankle fractures when it comes to ortho vs podiatry has used skewed data. But the damage has been done because these articles are still in circulation and typically pop up when someone is searching “ortho vs podiatry”. The AMA, AOFAS, etc have been doing this for years. It’s never going to stop.
 
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Hopefully we can get this article and tweet deleted as it is defamation. Just like the profession did when the female foot and ankle ortho from Washington state did a hit job on the podiatry profession through a Swedish medical center educational series lecture a few years ago. What was most astounding about that is that Swedish allowed that to happen when they have a very prominent and well known podiatry residency program working there for many years. Just shows that despite a historical affiliation that hospitals don’t care some times.
 
The APMA response was actually quite fast. I believe I saw this post and the APMA had responded by the next morning.

Who is a "physician" is a big AMA policy piece. From their website:
  1. Our American Medical Association Affirms that the term physician be limited to those people who have a Doctor of Medicine, Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine, or a recognized equivalent physician degree and who would be eligible for an Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) residency.
  2. Our AMA will, in conjunction with the Federation, aggressively advocate for the definition of physician to be limited as defined above:
    1. In any federal or state law or regulation including the Social Security Act or any other law or regulation that defines physician.
    2. To any federal and state legislature or agency including the Department of Health and Human Services, Federal Aviation Administration, the Department of Transportation, or any other federal or state agency that defines physician.
    3. To any accrediting body or deeming authority including the Joint Commission, Health Facilities Accreditation Program, or any other potential body or authority that defines physician.
  3. Our AMA urges all physicians to insist on being identified as a physician, to sign only those professional or medical documents identifying them as physicians, and to not let the term physician be used by any other organization or person involved in health care.
  4. Our AMA ensures that all references to physicians by government, payers, and other health care entities involving contracts, advertising, agreements, published descriptions, and other communications at all times distinguish between physician, as defined above, and non-physicians and to discontinue the use of the term provider.
  5. Policy requires any individual who has direct patient contact and presents to the patient as a doctor, and who is not a physician, as defined above, must specifically and simultaneously declare themselves a non-physician and define the nature of their doctorate degree.
  6. Our AMA will review and revise its own publications as necessary to conform with the House of Delegates’ policies on physician identification and physician reference and will refrain from any definition of physicians as providers that is not otherwise covered by existing Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) Editorial Governance Plan, which protects the editorial independence of JAMA.
  7. Our AMA actively supports the Scope of Practice Partnership in the Truth in Advertising campaign
 
This stuff is reason #528 why if may be good to graduate 300 or so well-trained DPMs per year (or even better, 100 surgical and 200 non-surgical) who get high volume, teaching hospital, pass boards.

They are not wrong that podiatrists have varied training, varied competence, varied boards. Frustrating... but also 100% true.
As long as the pod schools take whoever applies and half our "3 year surgical" residencies are laughable in facility or volume or both and grads fail boards their peers pass, we are absolutely going to be low hanging fruit to punch down upon.

... The AMA, AOFAS, etc have been doing this for years. It’s never going to stop.
Correctamundo.
 
This stuff is reason #528 why if may be good to graduate 300 or so well-trained DPMs per year (or even better, 100 surgical and 200 non-surgical) who get high volume, teaching hospital, pass boards.

They are not wrong that podiatrists have varied training, varied competence, varied boards. Frustrating... but also 100% true.
As long as the pod schools take whoever applies and half our "3 year surgical" residencies are laughable in facility or volume or both and grads fail boards their peers pass, we are absolutely going to be low hanging fruit to punch down upon.


Correctamundo.
This. Half the residencies are dog **** and too many podiatrists are poorly skilled or abjectly ****ed. So of course overall it has a poor reputation
 
The APMA response was actually quite fast. I believe I saw this post and the APMA had responded by the next morning.

Who is a "physician" is a big AMA policy piece. From their website:
  1. Our American Medical Association Affirms that the term physician be limited to those people who have a Doctor of Medicine, Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine, or a recognized equivalent physician degree and who would be eligible for an Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) residency.
  2. Our AMA will, in conjunction with the Federation, aggressively advocate for the definition of physician to be limited as defined above:
    1. In any federal or state law or regulation including the Social Security Act or any other law or regulation that defines physician.
    2. To any federal and state legislature or agency including the Department of Health and Human Services, Federal Aviation Administration, the Department of Transportation, or any other federal or state agency that defines physician.
    3. To any accrediting body or deeming authority including the Joint Commission, Health Facilities Accreditation Program, or any other potential body or authority that defines physician.
  3. Our AMA urges all physicians to insist on being identified as a physician, to sign only those professional or medical documents identifying them as physicians, and to not let the term physician be used by any other organization or person involved in health care.
  4. Our AMA ensures that all references to physicians by government, payers, and other health care entities involving contracts, advertising, agreements, published descriptions, and other communications at all times distinguish between physician, as defined above, and non-physicians and to discontinue the use of the term provider.
  5. Policy requires any individual who has direct patient contact and presents to the patient as a doctor, and who is not a physician, as defined above, must specifically and simultaneously declare themselves a non-physician and define the nature of their doctorate degree.
  6. Our AMA will review and revise its own publications as necessary to conform with the House of Delegates’ policies on physician identification and physician reference and will refrain from any definition of physicians as providers that is not otherwise covered by existing Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) Editorial Governance Plan, which protects the editorial independence of JAMA.
  7. Our AMA actively supports the Scope of Practice Partnership in the Truth in Advertising campaign
This is why in a lot of posts and documents I'll sneak the word "provider" in when referring to them. Really grinds their gears.
 
I think podiatrist's probably care for patients with poorer health on average than most orthopedists. Maybe we should be deferring these diabetic infections and wounds to Ortho because the patient is clearly too complicated for us.
 
I think podiatrist's probably care for patients with poorer health on average than most orthopedists. Maybe we should be deferring these diabetic infections and wounds to Ortho because the patient is clearly too complicated for us.
Yes, you will see this every single day if you practice in large hospitals. You probably saw it in residency if a major center :
Podiatry gets called on or referred the DM, PVD, obese, neglected, infected, bad/no insurance refers while ortho or plastics or gen surg wound or derm or FNPs or whoever takes the easier ones. However, to their credit, the MD surgeons also tend to get most of the poly-trauma, high energy, ICU, etc ones.

If you are more rural, you will probably be the only option and just get it all (healthy or non, big or normal, good or bad ins).

But yes, as @Retrograde_Nail said, the "scholarly articles" on comparisons of MD to DPM results always neglect that podiatry had more poor health pts than ortho. That's tale as old as time.
 
Glad to see others were as upset as I was. Do you guys think anything will change/come of this? Status quo? From my observation, it seems as though respect as a podiatrist from other specialties is earned through knowledge, expertise, and hard work (not saying it is not like this for everyone, just seems more so for us).
 
Glad to see others were as upset as I was. Do you guys think anything will change/come of this?
No
Status quo?
Yes
From my observation, it seems as though respect as a podiatrist from other specialties is earned through knowledge, expertise, and hard work (not saying it is not like this for everyone, just seems more so for us).
Bingo! Honestly the few MD/DO that had an axe to grind in general dont have great rapport with colleagues. Those that value my work and refer to me is all I care about. The lay public doesnt give 2 sh*ts when they have a sprained ankle or an oozing ingrown that the AMA doesnt like podiatry.
 
To be honest a lot of what the AMA said is true. Podiatry is being exposed for the fraud that it is that’s just what it boils down to. No matter how much you mimic the MD/DO profession doesn’t mean you’re an MD/DO and I feel like that’s what podiatry does so much until the AMA is just calling a spade a spade. The 3 year surgical residency implementation is a good example of the mimicking they have done. This is not to say that the AMA doesn’t have their own agenda but they didn’t lie.
 
Glad to see others were as upset as I was. Do you guys think anything will change/come of this? Status quo? From my observation, it seems as though respect as a podiatrist from other specialties is earned through knowledge, expertise, and hard work (not saying it is not like this for everyone, just seems more so for us).
I don't think main point of the article was respect or not. They will admit and say it that they respect our profession for what we do or what they think we should do (diabetic wound care, and minor foot surgeries). So, I don't think it's about respect. The whole article and battle is about the right to call ourselves physicians. They fight that. And I don't think hard work has anything to do with that. I agree with them that the term physician is about education and training. Our education has to be improved and residency training has to be very standardized. We need to better educate and train podiatric students and residents in foot and ankle but also in whole-body medicine.

I will respect my Medical Assistant for "hard work, knowledge and expertise", but that won't make them a physician. Same goes for nurses, surg techs and any other healthcare worker. I will respect other professionals if they are good in their profession but won't treat them as physician. So I don't get that argument our profession uses so much. Again, the right to call someone a physician should be based on appropriate education and training.

The basic definition of a physician you will find anywhere is that a "physician is a health professional (often with doctorate level of education) who practices medicine, which is concerned with promoting, maintaining or restoring health through the study, diagnosis, prognosis and treatment disease and other physical and mental impairments" (Wikipedia).

We are physicians. We do exactly that. The term physician has nothing to do with degrees of MD/DO as AMA wants it to make. There are many practicing physicians in US who never got MD or DO degree. In most countries outside of US there is no degree MD/DO and US physicians recognize them as physicians. Even if they give out a certain degree, it's often masters degree. They don't go through similar education pathway of 4 years of Bachelors and 4 years of medical school. Certain FMGs never complete residency in US. They can only do a few years of various, often vastly different fellowships, and are allowed to have full license and are allowed to have MD behind their name and are called physicians. There are so many exceptions to the medical education pathway. So, AMA did not mention all that in their attacking article. Completely misleading. In addition, there are medical schools that accept high school graduates and one van become and MD in 6 years. Are they less of a physician? 25% of all US physicians came from from overseas and they do not have MD/DO degree and their education was not under LCME standards. AMA needs to be more transparent and clear with the public on all of that.

It also has nothing to do with medical school as in US medical education system. In most countries, physicians train in the same facilities and take same courses along with dentists, pharmacists, nurses, etc. They did not go to traditional medical school and did not earn an MD degree but US physicians don't have a problem with working with them and recognizing them as physicians.

US podiatry school education is way better in most regards than education most FMGs received overseas. But they come here and are recognized as physicians. So it's not about the school or the degree, it's about what you are trained to do and what you are doing.

The term physician also has nothing to do with practicing whole-body medicine as that AMA article tried to confuse the public. Opthalmologists work on even more narrowed anatomy then our profession. Pathologists and many radiologits almost never see patients. They are physicians. Ask ophthalmologist or pathologist or dermatologist after 10-15 years in practice if they know anything about internal medicine or would be able to mange hospital patients. They will say no. Can you call them physician? Yes. It seems like there is a double standard in AMA position. What about many MD/DOs who gave up clinical medicine and went into business, teaching, legal field, etc? Can you call them a physician? They don't practice medicine or diagnose and treat patients. There are certain MD/DO grads that never practice medicine after residency, but for dome odd reason they keep the right to be called physician.

So, the term physician is based on education and training and based on the fact that one "studies, diagnosed and treats human conditions". Podiatry profession fits that definition more than many other MD/DO specialties. In real life, foot and ankle ortho and foot and ankle pod manage patients medically the same way for the most part. In real life, ortho don't like and do not treat patients from whole-body, systemic stand point. They focus on and treat a certain affected body part. We do exactly the same.
 
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Angry post from the fellowship trained foot and ankle surgeons but really podiatrists

Did you know he trained at Harvard????
 
I was waiting for when the Fellowship trained foot and ankle surgeons would join in. Thank god!
 
Forgive me if this has been beaten like a dead horse before on here, but I figured I would come to the most toxic place on the internet for pre meds, med students, residents, fellows, attendings, retired attendings, and retired attendings wives. I'm sure the consensus will be "who the hell cares?", but still wanted opinions on here since it seems to me at least that most patients don't know the difference and wonder if this article could sway "naive" patients in one direction or the other. As a student, I didn't care too much for this article, to put it lightly. It does not deter me from the field, but I am so curious as to why the AMA has had a hard on with podiatrists for quite awhile now (unless its literally just the AMA president).

***DISCLAIMER: Love the field of podiatry and can't wait to practice blah blah blah etc etc this is not a student who is trying to dig at the field or talk smack, or having doubts, literally just want to see what people think.

Article was published June 13, 2024. Enjoy.

What's the difference between orthopaedic surgeons and podiatrists?
I read the referenced article and it just reinforces my opinion that I have had for many years. At the risk of painting with a very wide brush, physicians, meaning MDs are a jealous bunch and will fiercely protect their turf under the guise of only they are qualified to treat a given ailment. Historically, the medical profession (MD) has tried and failed to put DOs out of business. They have also gone after the chiropractor but have failed at that attack as well. Of course the more competition also means a reduced revenue stream. One would think the MDs would take all the help they could get. Of interest, at least in the state of Michigan, the term physician for optometrists, podiatrists, and even chiropractors is legal so long as the qualifier optometric, podiatric and chiropractic precedes the word. Whether one can call themselves a physician really depends on any given state law. Do not let the insecure and narrow minded color your perception of the profession you will soon enter.
As an FYI, I attached the following from Michigan law. Podiataric medical care services means those services within the scope of practice of podiatric physicians licensed by the board, except those services that the board prohibits or otherwise restricts within a practice agreement or determines shall not be delegated by a podiatric physician without endangering the health and safety of patients as provided for in section 18048. (i) The evaluation, diagnosis, management, and prevention of conditions of the lower extremities, including local manifestations of systemic disease in the human foot and ankle, by attending to and advising patients and through the use of devices, diagnostic tests, drugs and biologicals, surgical procedures, or other means. The evaluation, diagnosis, management, and prevention of conditions of the lower extremities may include osseous and soft tissue procedures that address the pathology of the foot, ankle, and the contiguous attachments below the tibial tuberosity. DOCTOR (AND DR.) – RESTRICTED. An individual licensed to engage in the practice of chiropractic; dentistry; medicine; optometry; osteopathic medicine and surgery; podiatric medicine and surgery; psychology; and veterinary medicine shall not use the terms ‘doctor’ or ‘dr.’ in any written or printed matter or display without adding of chiropractic; of dentistry; of medicine; or optometry; of osteopathic medicine and surgery; of podiatric medicine and surgery; of psychology; of veterinary medicine or a similar term, respectively. See MCL 333.16265
 

Angry post from the fellowship trained foot and ankle surgeons but really podiatrists

Did you know he trained at Harvard????
I went to school with him. He was even then all involved in associations and stuff
 
I read the referenced article and it just reinforces my opinion that I have had for many years. At the risk of painting with a very wide brush, physicians, meaning MDs are a jealous bunch and will fiercely protect their turf under the guise of only they are qualified to treat a given ailment. Historically, the medical profession (MD) has tried and failed to put DOs out of business. They have also gone after the chiropractor but have failed at that attack as well. Of course the more competition also means a reduced revenue stream. One would think the MDs would take all the help they could get. Of interest, at least in the state of Michigan, the term physician for optometrists, podiatrists, and even chiropractors is legal so long as the qualifier optometric, podiatric and chiropractic precedes the word. Whether one can call themselves a physician really depends on any given state law. Do not let the insecure and narrow minded color your perception of the profession you will soon enter.
As an FYI, I attached the following from Michigan law. Podiataric medical care services means those services within the scope of practice of podiatric physicians licensed by the board, except those services that the board prohibits or otherwise restricts within a practice agreement or determines shall not be delegated by a podiatric physician without endangering the health and safety of patients as provided for in section 18048. (i) The evaluation, diagnosis, management, and prevention of conditions of the lower extremities, including local manifestations of systemic disease in the human foot and ankle, by attending to and advising patients and through the use of devices, diagnostic tests, drugs and biologicals, surgical procedures, or other means. The evaluation, diagnosis, management, and prevention of conditions of the lower extremities may include osseous and soft tissue procedures that address the pathology of the foot, ankle, and the contiguous attachments below the tibial tuberosity. DOCTOR (AND DR.) – RESTRICTED. An individual licensed to engage in the practice of chiropractic; dentistry; medicine; optometry; osteopathic medicine and surgery; podiatric medicine and surgery; psychology; and veterinary medicine shall not use the terms ‘doctor’ or ‘dr.’ in any written or printed matter or display without adding of chiropractic; of dentistry; of medicine; or optometry; of osteopathic medicine and surgery; of podiatric medicine and surgery; of psychology; of veterinary medicine or a similar term, respectively. See MCL 333.16265
We have to draw the line somewhere. Chiropractors are like a mile behind it.
 
We have to draw the line somewhere. Chiropractors are like a mile behind it.
Concur.

Everyone knows chiro and pharma and counselors are not docs/physicians.
Dentists are a maybe... but clearly their own thing.

The Noctors currently on trial are CRNAs, podiatists, NPs, probably PhD phychologists and others. Anyone who does not use a stethoscope daily AND have at least 7yrs of training past bachelors. Who really knows.

Bottom line: Podiatry should be perfectly content ending up in boat of dentists: maybe physician, maybe not... but good at what they do.

MDs went to school that was hard to get into, they trained long and hard, and they are elite people. They won't stay elite by letting 486 MCATs who did residency at a rinky dink community hospital or a VA into the same club. I can't say I blame them much, lol.

DemotivationalPoster.jpg


... Honestly the few MD/DO that had an axe to grind in general dont have great rapport with colleagues. Those that value my work and refer to me is all I care about. The lay public doesnt give 2 sh*ts when they have a sprained ankle or an oozing ingrown that the AMA doesnt like podiatry.
Ding ding ding^^
 
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I went to school with him. He was even then all involved in associations and stuff
I thought it was a good response. Good on him for putting it out there.

We are doctors. But if this means I can reference the article to refuse a consult it is what it is
 
Lots of good responses coming out, and everyone's right to be insulted. But honestly? I just have to shrug, maybe chuckle a little bit too. There's an old song, "High School Never Ends," and moments like these prove just how eternally true it is.



So the cool kids wrote something mean about us in their yearbook. But imagine they wrote something different, that all podiatrists are 100% physicians and can do anything and everything for the foot and ankle. Is that supposed to change what's on my schedule on Monday? Next month? Next year? Referral patterns stay constant, the old biases will never change. At least here the AMA is putting out explicitly what they will always believe.

Granted, I do recall a few years ago the attempt to create podiatry-specific e/m codes which surely would have cut our reimbursements, so I understand there may be material consequences to this attitude. But that's the key, it's not the article that's the problem, it's the attitude leading to articles like this. You can't change people's attitudes via top-down organizations. All you can do is show up every day, do what's right for your patients, and that's how people notice.

So, physician or not, I choose to be grateful for what I have. I don't see a purpose in getting angry about something outside of my control. Besides, when you're already at the bottom, they can't knock you down. 🦞👑
 
AMA just shot themselves in the foot, and can't even figure out how to treat it.

Seriously though, that article is a disgrace and every sentence is misleading in its own way.

They said something to the effect of " Podiatrists go to podiatry school for 4 year, then do a 3 year residency...while after a bachelors orthopedic surgeons do 4 years medical school, 5 years residency, 1 year fellowship.

They literally couldn't have said it any more biased.

They also say "orthopedic surgeons" but only say "podiatrists".

Why not say "podiatric surgeons" and "orthopedic surgeons" or "podiatric physicians" and "orthopedic physicians".
 
If you all are appalled by an article just wait until you actually start working and realize your service is the dumping ground for ortho, vascular, wound care, plastics, etc.

You could do a 1000 ankle fractures in a row flawlessly and you will never be the first one ED/medicine call for the next ankle fracture.

You could be the yes man and take all the trauma that ortho does not want (HIV, hep C, AIDs, homeless, diabetic, geriatric, morbid obesity, mental illness), no questions asked, only for them to talk to you like you don't know how to operate and make jokes about cutting toenails. Or if you have a negative outcome its because you are a podiatrist. While you watch them assault people's feet and ankles and never get sued.

This is the reality.
 
If you all are appalled by an article just wait until you actually start working and realize your service is the dumping ground for ortho, vascular, wound care, plastics, etc.

You could do a 1000 ankle fractures in a row flawlessly and you will never be the first one ED/medicine call for the next ankle fracture.

You could be the yes man and take all the trauma that ortho does not want (HIV, hep C, AIDs, homeless, diabetic, geriatric, morbid obesity, mental illness), no questions asked, only for them to talk to you like you don't know how to operate and make jokes about cutting toenails. Or if you have a negative outcome its because you are a podiatrist. While you watch them assault people's feet and ankles and never get sued.

This is the reality.
This is 100% correct. That will become clear pretty fast when s/he starts residency.

Family med and ER and hospitalists want whoever shows up and does the work.
This works heavily for us in rural areas or VA/IHS (few ortho, few options overall)... and heavily against us in metros (many options).
In most teaching or university hospitals, add more egos. In most nice suburbs PP, add competition for money (and egos).
Even if you are in a MSG or hospital employed, more MD/DOs view podiatry as glorified midlevel of sorts than a real peer.
Docs will absolutely try to work with you if you're friendly and have good outcomes (or if you're in their MSG), but they will typically NOT stick their neck out to go around ortho or their group's PA or whoever else does the same work as podiatry.

Even if a DPM or group has been doing F&A in an area/hospital for years, a competent ortho or group who wants to do F&A work (fellowship or not) will quickly command the bone/joint F&A work and refers. Look at the many top DPM residencies which have been disbanded or crippled in that way over the years.

This is why sooo many of our residencies are heavy on diabetic wound/amp and light or even absent significant types and volume on elective and trauma F&A surgery. That DM work will always be around, but you will have ortho politics and competition from other DPMs (and often MD/DO surgeons) for the elective and trauma. You'd be surprised how many places still think podiatrists do toenails and wound care (or just expect just that... even if local podiatrists can and have been doing much more).
 
If you all are appalled by an article just wait until you actually start working and realize your service is the dumping ground for ortho, vascular, wound care, plastics, etc.

You could do a 1000 ankle fractures in a row flawlessly and you will never be the first one ED/medicine call for the next ankle fracture.

You could be the yes man and take all the trauma that ortho does not want (HIV, hep C, AIDs, homeless, diabetic, geriatric, morbid obesity, mental illness), no questions asked, only for them to talk to you like you don't know how to operate and make jokes about cutting toenails. Or if you have a negative outcome its because you are a podiatrist. While you watch them assault people's feet and ankles and never get sued.

This is the reality.
Their system works. It makes us have no desire or reason to mess with the ankle. It doesn’t pay as well as it does for them and our head hangs on the noose if it goes bad while they can botch recons and fracture repairs every which way and get no criticism.

And for what? So we can distance ourselves by being something other than a foot doctor?

Why do we even want the ED calling us for ankle fractures if we aren’t getting paid what they get paid to do it?

The average ED will toss an ankle fracture to a spine surgeon on ortho call before they give it to a fellowship trained foot and ankle surgeon (podiatrist).
 
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Their system works. It makes us have no desire or reason to mess with the ankle. It doesn’t pay as well as it does for them and our head hangs on the noose if it goes bad while they can botch recons and fracture repairs every which way and get no criticism.

And for what? So we can distance ourselves by being something other than a foot doctor?

Why do we even want the ED calling us for ankle fractures if we aren’t getting paid what they get paid to do it?

The average ED will toss an ankle fracture to a spine surgeon on ortho call before they give it to a fellowship trained foot and ankle surgeon (podiatrist).
I am reminded of my favorite quote from The Rock " losers talk about giving it their best. Winners go home and f*** the prom queen."
 
Even if a DPM or group has been doing F&A in an area/hospital for years, a competent ortho or group who wants to do F&A work (fellowship or not) will quickly command the bone/joint F&A work and refers. Look at the many top DPM residencies which have been disbanded or crippled in that way over the years.
Out of curiosity, which ones?
 
Where’s the part about lying about doing steroids
It's the Sean Connery - Nick Cage 'The Rock' movie... not Dwayne Johnson.

The Rock Movie GIF


Terminator 2, Under Siege, The Rock, Lionheart, Braveheart, Point Break, The Professional ... must-watch 1990s movies... the pre-woke timespan of action movies... each one knocks up your testosterone 50-100ng/dl and enhances your ability to game better than anything on tiktok. 👍
 
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AMA just shot themselves in the foot, and can't even figure out how to treat it.

Seriously though, that article is a disgrace and every sentence is misleading in its own way.

They said something to the effect of " Podiatrists go to podiatry school for 4 year, then do a 3 year residency...while after a bachelors orthopedic surgeons do 4 years medical school, 5 years residency, 1 year fellowship.

They literally couldn't have said it any more biased.

They also say "orthopedic surgeons" but only say "podiatrists".

Why not say "podiatric surgeons" and "orthopedic surgeons" or "podiatric physicians" and "orthopedic physicians".

Cmon bro. We have fellowship trained podiatrists labeling themselves as “reconstructive foot and ankle surgeons”, and some even telling friends and family they’re an orthopedic surgeon.

Take a look on LinkedIn. Funny stuff
 
Cmon bro. We have fellowship trained podiatrists labeling themselves as “reconstructive foot and ankle surgeons”, and some even telling friends and family they’re an orthopedic surgeon.

Take a look on LinkedIn. Funny stuff
I don't doubt it. There's being exaggerative and there's straight up lying. I personally thing saying reconstructive foot and ankle surgeons is exaggerative but at least it's true. I would never say orthopedic surgeon because that's straight up lying, I think.
 
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