Thoughts/feelings on not matching #1

Discussion in 'General Residency Issues' started by Fabio, Mar 19, 2004.

  1. Fabio

    Fabio Senior Member
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    I was shocked to receive my Match and see that I did not get my #1 choice. I am still happy with #2, though. I am going to do peds (so not the most competitive field) and have been told consistently throughout the interview circuit that I would be highly sought-out at any program. I felt very confident about my rank list, based on feedback from my #1.

    However, I am most disappointed by the "game-playing" that apparently went on with my #1 choice. I received multiple letters of interest throughout the interview season, promises to be ranked "highly", and even a "handshake" from the chairman himself - "If you want to come to this program, I can assure you you will have no problem . . . what do we have to do to get you here? . . . I am telling you that we all really want you . . . etc." I am just feeling a little down and disenchanted about the game-playing in the ranking process. To add fuel to the fire, my #1 is an FMG-heavy program - which potentially means I could not have been ranked as "highly" as I was led to believe.

    I have read multiple times on this website not to trust promises from PDs unless in writing, etc. - I guess I just got a heavy dose of reality! As I said, I will be happy at #2 and am looking forward to starting residency at that really great program!

    I am just looking for others out there who may have had similar experiences - what you went through, what you were thinking, etc.

    Thanks - and congrats to everyone on being done with the Match.
     
  2. amdap

    amdap Senior Member
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    Sorry to hear about that - I am glad you have a great 2nd choice, though!

    I refused to be a part of the *game-playing* - I did not inform any places that I was ranking them "highly" or even #1. I did not feel that a program should only be concerned with filling numbers or that such *promises* should influence anyone's decision! I also did not get my #1 choice, but I would like to think that my program and I matched each other based on our actual impressions of each other and not all the *game-playing* (letters of intent, promises, etc.) Maybe I am naive about the whole system, but hey, I feel good about my match.

    Your feelings are natural, though - I am sure many others felt the same way on Match Day. Best wishes - I hope you have a great residency and career.
     
  3. Crimson&Clover

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    i too was disappointed that i didn't get my #1; i really think you can't believe any positive feedback that you get during interviews. one of my interviewers told me he looked forward to seeing me next year; another said that it was basically up to me to let them know if i wanted to be in the program. so i really do think it's a game and my advice for MS3s is to rank a lot of programs and definitely don't count your chickens before they hatch.

    just out of curiosity, how are you guys dealing with the disappointment (if you didn't get your #1)? i'm trying to be positive and chipper, but i think it'll be a few more days before i fully recover :)
     
  4. tofurious

    tofurious Senior Member
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    I think it would be useful for future match participants to know who these PDs are and therefore perhaps which programs to trust or not. While it is a giant game and we all tell the programs we interview at that we would love to go there, it's quite another issue when the program/PD blatantly lies.
     
  5. Fabio

    Fabio Senior Member
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    I'm suffering from a case of dented pride, I think, more than anything. I really believed I would get my #1. I know that 90% of US seniors get one of their top THREE, but to me, anything beyond #1 is just a little hard to swallow. :)

    C&C: I am also trying to stay positive and chipper, but I agree that it will take a few days to sink in. Complicating the matter is that my now-significant other (who was not my significant other at the time of interviewing!) lives in the area of my #1. My #2 is nowhere close. So there are also some personal implications. I agree with what amdap said above that I wouldn't really want to end up at a place like #1 based on the way they do business. I just wish things didn't end up the way they did. As I said, it was a heavy dose of reality! As for how to deal with it - there is really nothing I CAN do except accept my Match with grace and optimism! It is still a really great program, and I did have some difficulty deciding which to rank #1 and #2. I hope you get some other input about how others dealt with their result.

    Tofurious: Thanks for your suggestion - I have gone through the range of emotions - shock, denial, anger, indifference, relief, anticipation, disillusionment . . . etc. I agree that the programs/PDs are unethical in what they did. I am not sure what, if any, is the best action to take. I thought about actually calling up the #1 and asking them WHY this happened - but it would probably do no good, right? The program is already filled, and I might just get more empty talk in return. If any MS3s applying for peds have any questions about what happened to me, they can PM me when the time comes to apply. I don't want to trash-talk the program just for the sake of doing it, but I DO want people to realize what can happen when they are applying.
     
  6. Hop Toad

    Hop Toad Senior Member
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    I too did not get my #1 choice and was highly recruited. I was even told by one interviewer that I was the best candidate that he had seen this year. It is disappointing when you are led to believe that one thing will happen and it does not. Luckily my 2nd choice was very close and I can find a lot of reasons to think I'll be happier there.

    I am trying to give the program the benefit of the doubt. I do believe that they thought they would rank me highly and maybe just EVERYONE above me ranked them 1st. I also am realistic enough to know that lots of games are played with any class. Gramp gave a bunch of money, I'll take this kid if you take someone from my med school,etc. 50% of the class is going to be the opposite sex from you, so that cuts the positions in half right there. And then there is that old diversity card. I'm white bread, man. I get no points for helping to create a diverse class. And I do believe that a class should be made up of lots of different kinds of people, so I won't argue that point.

    We'll all be fine in the end. Congratulations to everyone!
     
  7. Kalel

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    Yup, I agree. I wouldn't get too hung up on your no. 1 choice, because you never know how things would have turned out had you ended up there. Maybe things will be better with the program that you matched into, maybe things will be worse; a 1 day interview isn't enough for you to really be 100% sure about a program IMO.

    I did match into my no. 1 choice, but I was really nervous about my ability to match into either of my top 2 choices to be honest. I e-mailed 2 people and sent one letter of intent to my top choice, and I got absolutely no positive or negative feedback at all. My second choice e-mailed me a generic e-mail with the wrong name at the top! Plus, I heard that my no. 1 choice had previously responded positively to someone who sent them a letter of intent. So I guess that the take home message for the class who applies next year is ignore supportive letters promising that you'll match from PD's! They are just advertising their program to make sure that they fill, just like your thank you letters are just to make sure that you match.

    Anyways, congrats on matching! Remember that not everyone was as fortunate to match into a program/specialty of their choice.
     
  8. Pelivar

    Pelivar Brain donor
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    I can sympathize with the above posters. I ended up at #2. My first choice was my home program for location reasons and I was pretty sure I would rank there. My #2 is a better program is a good location, but now I have to move away from family. Now that I have had time to think about it I am very excited and I think it is for the best. Mostly my ego was just shocked that they would rank people above me. I do hate the game the match has become and think it is all a joke. All you can do is rank places in the order you want and see what happens.

    I would not give out any names or programs because I think all programs do this to a certain extent and it wouldn't be fair to the few programs we were screwed by. Good luck at you new residencies!

    -P
     
  9. tofurious

    tofurious Senior Member
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    After I posted my initial response, I began to think what I would do if I were a PD. If I am from a program with X spots and I ususally have to go to 2X - 3X to fill my class, I probably have to be nice to people I would rank within the top 3.5X to 4X. Of course, it's one thing to say that you would be a good fit or we would be happy to have you onboard to all these people, but it might not be too appropriate to say that you are on the top of our list or you will get in for sure. Granted, it a program becomes ultracompetitive (specialty, location, something else, etc), a PD would also have no way of seeing this coming.

    One thing I would like to add to those who are wondering why they didn't match into their #1 choice: I matched into my #1 choice, but I wonder how things would have been at my #2 and #3 choices. 4 years from now, I will have the same questions again. It almost comes down to the fact that there is probably little difference in quality of training between #1 #2 and #3, and making the best out of what you have is probably the best strategy regardless of whether you matched into your #1 or #3.
     
  10. prwunecom

    prwunecom Senior Member
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    I for one am very disillusioned with the whole process! I matched for psychiatry, which supposedly isn't that competitive. I was given every indication at EVERY place I interviewed that if I want to go there, they would be happy to have me. I went into the match feeling "sure" that I would get one of my top 3 choices. Couldn't believe it when I got my #5. I ranked 10 programs overall, so it could have been worse. But as some of you may know from my postings on other threads about this......I had an e-mail from my #4 choice asking me why I had not ranked them higher so that they could make changes for future applicants. I was flabbergasted, and I told them so. They seemed equally confused telling me that two of the people who matched with them were ranked below me on their list. Go figure!
     
  11. Kalel

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    Unless you couples matched, that sounds like a computer error. If it's true, I'd reccomend contacting the nrmp people to see if you can figure out what happened. It's probably too late to do anything about it now, but you never know.
     
  12. prwunecom

    prwunecom Senior Member
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    No, I didn't couples match....just regular matched. I have had so many people on different forums here tell me that I should contact the NRMP about this, so I have now done so. I doubt very seriously whether anything will come of it, but I just wanted my thoughts to be known -- while I had great faith in the match process prior to my experiences, that has all changed. I do not think it works!
     
  13. tofurious

    tofurious Senior Member
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    That's the problem with the Match: if there was a computer error, 1) you have no idea where things went wrong 2) you can't remedy the situation as any one person-one program change will alter the entire Match.
     
  14. Fabio

    Fabio Senior Member
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    Thanks everyone . . .

    I appreciate your honesty, and it helps to hear about others out there in the same boat. I am feeling a bit better about things overall. Just a few points about what above posters have said . . .

    I agree that trash-talking the program is not going to change anything about the system. I am still not at all happy with them or the "system", but, whatever.

    Also, in response to prwunecom: has anyone else ever heard of such "computer errors" in the process? True, it would be tough to prove or do anything about it, but does this actually happen??? THAT would be annoying! Can you let me know what happens after you contact the NRMP?

    And in response to tofurious: I honestly felt like the letters and promises went beyond the standard "we're strongly interested in you and ranking you highly." The letters were worded very personally and favorably, and the actual conversations on interview day seemed strong, sincere, and not the least bit generic. But I do see what you mean about needing to go deep into the rank list to fill the program - I just wish they would have been more upfront with me rather than leading me on. I feel like a fool for buying into some of their selling.
     
  15. Fabio

    Fabio Senior Member
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    And also . . .

    I will definitely keep their dealings in mind if I decide to apply for fellowships in the future.
     
  16. tofurious

    tofurious Senior Member
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    That's the problem with the Match: if there was a computer error, 1) you have no idea where things went wrong 2) you can't remedy the situation as any one person-one program change will alter the entire Match.
     
  17. margaritaboy

    margaritaboy Senior Member
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    Please keep us posted on what you find out.
     
  18. PainDr

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    As part of the selection committee at my program I can tell you that the game playing works both ways! We had two applicants who led us to believe they would rank us number one and based on THEIR input, we ranked them accordingly. Unfortunately, in the end it became obvious they were lying to us.

    Also, I seriously doubt any program cares about gender or race and bet most places do things the same way we do...go for the smartest, hardest working, nicest candidates available. Also, please remember that work ethic and personality are EXTREMELY important. For example, we had two applicants who looked fabulous on paper. In discussing their applications, we learned (from a former classmate) that one was the biggest slacker in the world and the other (during her interview day) had been a complete snob to the other residents. They IMMEDIATELY went to the bottom of the list!

    Anyway, I just posted to let you know that not every program is deceptive and that the ranking process involves alot more than grades and board scores.
     
  19. prwunecom

    prwunecom Senior Member
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    I do not think that any programs were dishonest with me.......my beef is with the way the match went. I seriously think the fault lies somewhere with the match algorithm itself.

    I sent an e-mail to the NRMP and have just heard from them that they are going to investigate and hand check the results....i'll keep everyone posted.
     
  20. beyond all hope

    beyond all hope Senior Member
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    One of my attendings once said: "the best residency is the one you match at."

    William Mallon ranked USC #4 for Emergency Medicine. Now he is certain it was the best choice for him. He's also the PD.

    I got matched at my #3 choice, and honestly I wish I had gone to my #4. Go figure.

    One of the things I'm certain about is that you really don't know much about what you're getting into before going to residency anyway (I did exhausting research on all of the programs I ranked, 2nd looked, talked to many people, etc)

    What you think was #2, #3 or #187 may end up being #1 for you after all.
     
  21. Global Disrobal

    Global Disrobal Along for the ride
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    As medical students we've made the most of circumstances. This is another one. You are at a place that obviously liked you alot and wanted you... enjoy it, and don't bother lookign back. Just let the MS3's that come up to you for advice know about your experiences so that they have a clear idea as to what awaits them.

    As to the PD's, they play this game without much of a consequence. In the end they get who they want and hope that all is fair is love and war... Just remember not to do this to anyone else coming up the ladder when you are on the other side.

    Good luck everyone on the upcoming year!
     
  22. huktonfonix

    huktonfonix board certified!
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    Hows this, I fell to #4 on my rank list, then my number 1 choice sent me one of those "What did you think of our program" emails, although it didn't say anything about them ranking me highly. I thought this was kind of giving me a sharp kick to the balls when I'm already beaten on the ground. This is an interesting thread though.
     
  23. mediocre

    mediocre Member
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    I matched at my 2nd choice. I did the same as everyone else and told my 1st choice that I was ranking them #1. Here was the response...

    "It is very nice hearing from you. I am very happy you had a positive experience during your rotation and interview at our program, and that several aspects of our training program were impressive to you. We have yet to rank the applicants to our program, and you know the NRMP does not allowed me to reveal that rank before the match in March. However, I am confident you will match into a very good program, and they in turn will be
    very fortunate to have you as a resident. Best of luck with the Match."


    I can't say that I'm a top notch candidate, so perhaps they were just being brutally honest in not trying to recruit me. But this PD could have tried to mislead me, and he didn't. So there is still some honesty out there.
     
  24. prwunecom

    prwunecom Senior Member
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    I heard back from the NRMP and they assured me that after hand checking my match stuff, I was not ranked higher than any of the other candidates at my #4 choice. I guess the #4 program must have made the screw up or at least that is what I am left to assume.

    Happy to be matched, though, and I am putting this all behind me!
     
  25. SuFiBB

    SuFiBB Member
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    Yeah, I matched in IM at #10 on my ROL. my advice to MS3's rank as many programs as you would like to go to. DO NOT LIMIT THE # OF PROGRAMS YOU WILL RANK BASED ON EMPTY PROMISES FROM PD. I was heavily recruited by many of the first 9 places and I put down my #10 as an afterthought. if I didn't put down my #10 on my ROL, I wouldn't haved matched. in other words if I had trusted these program directors then I wouldn't have matched. warning to rising MS4's do not make the same mistake that I almost made. in the end I am happy to be going to my #10 place. concerning my top 9 choices, one pd told me that there would be no problem for me "getting in here" when I told him about my interest at that place. another program's pd gave me a very personal encouraging letter after he personally interviewed me. another place group of pd's constantly sent me emails and at one point called my place after the interview to recruit me. another place's interview told me that they would rank me highly. so i was shocked at my #10 choice but I am glad that they ranked me hight enough and I look forward to working there.

    DO NOT TRUST PD'S EMPTY PROMISES. YOU CAN RANK THEIR PROGRAMS HIGHLY BUT RANK EVERY PROGRAM YOU WANT TO GO TO EVEN IF YOU RANK THEM BELOW THE PROGRAM THAT IS TRYING TO RECRUIT YOU!!!!!

    If I can save one rising MS4 from making the mistake that I almost made my life will be worthwhile.
     
  26. joedogma

    joedogma Senior Member
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    I was fortunate enough to talk to a chairman of a well respected program and he said that a program wants one thing, and one thing only come match day...they want TO FILL. Everyone should realize that anything stated that is not in a legal contract doesn't mean diddily. He even told me that sending letters of intent are a waste of time and most likely end up in the circular file. There is good advice on this thread. Don't become complacent during interview season because you think you have got an easy match or because the PD winked at you on the way out the door. I want to thank everyone for the great info. I will be on the interview trail this fall and what I have learned is go on as many interviews as you can, choose the programs that you will be HAPPY at, and rank them ALL and let the match gods do their thing. Congrats to all who matched :)
     
  27. RuralMedicine

    RuralMedicine Senior Member
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    Perhaps I shouldn't reply to this thread as I'm well into residency and I got my first choice in the match. Honestly, I had no frustrations with the match and although many of my friends were overly stressed trying to play the "game", it seemed very simple to me. I applied to 10 programs was offered interviews at all 10 but had to opt out of one due to scheduling issues. Of the remaining 9 I could see myself at 8 and I ranked them in the order of my preference. Yes I was happy to match at my first choice but I would have been happy to have matched at my 8th choice as well. I agree that scrambling would have been inconvenient and stressful. I did write thank you letters for all interviews (more out of habit honestly, I've been doing it since I was five). My interviews were generally favorable yet with the exception of one interviewer who just stopped mid interview and said very impressive record no one gave me the impression that obviously I would match there. Some programs did have residents or chief residents contact to see if I had questions but they never volunteered how I would rank (and I did not ask). I did not write letters of intent to any programs. The match can be a game I suppose, if you choose to make it one. Personally I think that the more games you try to play the more likely you are to not match or not fill. Filling has never been a problem in my current program and I'm sure that is mostly because this is a strong program but I'm sure it doesn't hurt that our program director prefers a rousing game of tennis to playing match games.
     
  28. amdap

    amdap Senior Member
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    You're right . . . you shouldn't have replied.:)

    Just kidding . . . but honestly, I think the point of this thread was for the people who felt misled by certain programs and are looking for some support. You were lucky to get your #1 - and I'm really glad for you and everyone else who was so lucky - but imagine if you HAD been fed the stuff that some of these posters have been told. It is a lesson not to trust such promises that aren't in writing, but I agree that matching IS a game played by both applicants and programs. Fabio may have felt the way you did if he/she ranked her 2nd choice as 1st choice and actually ended up there. But it sounds like the 1st choice said and did some misleading things in the interest of filling their program. True, you cannot blame the program for doing this, but it DOES happen.

    If there is anyone at your program who ended up there as a 2nd choice, I am sure they will agree.

    I hope everyone is feeling better and looking forward to starting residency.
     
  29. ThyroidAblation

    ThyroidAblation Junior Member
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  30. Vincristine

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    I am, indeed, reading as much about the match outcome as possible. I appreciate everyone's honesty. I am sure it will take some time, but in the long run I hope you'll be able to be thankful for simply matching! Peace and happy packing. :clap:
     
  31. prwunecom

    prwunecom Senior Member
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    I just wanted to say that although I ended up at my #5 choice, this program sent me a letter just prior to rank list deadline informing me that for a program of 3 residents, they were ranking me #2, and that if I ranked them highly I would match there. Since that is where I ended up, I feel extremely lucky to have matched somewhere where I was truly wanted!
     
  32. Jim Picotte

    Jim Picotte Senior Member
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    Someone should bump this thread for next year. Everyone should have heard from their dean or fourth year students to NOT trust anything the PD tells you in terms of matching.

    Both the PD and candidate has the same goals. The program wants EVERY APPLICANT to rank them number 1 so they get to choose their best fit. If they're interviewing you, you'll most likely be ranked so of course the PD will tell nearly everyone that they'll be ranked highly, will be a good fit, etc.

    As the applicant we want every program we interview at to rank us number 1 as well. That's why when you're at a program and you know for sure that there is no way you want to match there, you suck it up and make it sound like you love the place to the residents, secretary, PD because you want to make sure you match somewhere.

    The PD know that all those letter of intents (for the most part) are BS and they've been playing this game a lot longer than the medical students so they're good at it. For those entering the match in the future, make sure you know not to believe anything you hear about ranking no matter how good it makes you feel in those stress induced months to think that you're a sure in because the PD said you were their #1 applicant. Every 3rd year med student should be receiving some sort of orientation about the match and what to expect. We were told repeatedly to not rely on anything we hear about where the program plans to rank us.
     
  33. Whisker Barrel Cortex

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    Wow, I'm glad I was so worried about even matching at a radiology program that I would have been happy at any of the programs I applied to.
     
  34. djipopo

    djipopo SDN Angel
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    thought this was interesting and a good thread for those MS4's to review before interview season.

    good luck to you all :luck:
     
  35. punjabiMD

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    :laugh:

    very informative thread. Thanks to everyone who posted!
     
  36. stuck_in_boston

    stuck_in_boston Junior Member
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    Does this still hold true for the competitive specialties? I have my eye on integrated plastics programs. If I find 10 places I could be happy to train at and list them all, I should be happy getting any of them right?
     
  37. kem

    kem Senior Member
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    Hi everyone,

    As a new MS4, I thought this thread was extremely useful. I tend to be naive about things like this, and it will really help me not be swayed by promises. (hopefully!)

    This reminds me of when I helped out at a fraternity rush. The guys told me, "We want ALL the freshmen to want to pledge here, so then we can pick and choose the ones we want." I guess it's the same with the match.

    Thanks for the help!

    :) kem
     
  38. Fabio

    Fabio Senior Member
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    I'm so glad I started this thread - when I first sat down to write, I was just disappointed and looking to vent . . . also looking for some others out there in a similar boat.

    A lot of time has passed, and now I'm in a residency where I'm VERY happy - but even looking back, I still don't agree with the way things played out.

    To answer some of the more recent questions: I would definitely not rank any place you would not want to be. I would carefully pick a "safety" place, one that you could see yourself getting up to every day, in a city that is livable for you. I definitely think the same ideas hold true for competitive specialties. A while ago, there was a thread about someone who had matched in ENT in his 18th choice and was totally miserable and looking to get out - even in ENT! Would you rather be in a transitional/prelim/gen surg or medicine spot in a place where you feel comfortable, or would you be willing to endure 5-6 years of misery for the chance to practice plastics/ENT/ortho down the road? It's a purely personal decision, but it totally plays into your ranking process. I applied in peds, but this would be my thought process had I applied to a competitive specialty. If anyone else has thoughts out there, feel free to post.

    Bottom line: you will be told by MOST places that you would be a great candidate for their program. Some programs will plunge a little further and "quietly" shake your hand, send you gifts, etc. Do NOT take any of these gestures to mean anything more than they are. Programs can afford to do all these things, with little consequence. It's the same song and dance every year, with every interview group that comes through. Judge the place more by objective criteria: curriculum, schedule, location, numbers, etc. Also - your gut feelings - did you get along with people at the pre-interview dinner? Did other residents seem similar to you in terms of background, goals? Could you see yourself walking those halls everyday? What programs does the residency have in place for resident well-being?

    Of course, it is difficult to accept that you did not get your #1 on Match Day. But you should be able to see yourself at ANY of your ranked places when you open that envelope - NO SURPRISES! Oh, also, I really respected the programs that did not inform you how they were ranking you or did not offer any additional info to inquiring applicants. I loved that they were objective or told you upfront that "you would be a great addition to whatever program you matched in" - very noncommital, yet supportive.

    In retrospect, I love my #2 and am SO glad I ended up here over my #1. I am really lucky, too, because I, in retrospect, would not have wanted to end up at my #3 or #4.

    Anyone can PM me if they have more questions. Best wishes!
     
  39. Poety

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    Bumping This For Current Applicants :)
     
  40. automaton

    automaton drone
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    what i don't understand is, what's in it for the student to rank a certain program #1 unless it truly reflects their highest preference? why would students need to be "less gullible" about PD telling them things, if the student is going to rank according to his/her preference anyway? as far as i understand it, there is no advantage to placing one program higher than another in the rank order list, as the algorithm will always place you in the highest ranked program that has an open spot for you.
     
  41. Solideliquid

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    This is a great thread, I'm glad its been bumped as I probably wouldn't have seen it otherwise.

    I am applying for the 2006 match in psychiatry and at this point in time I have 9 interviews and will most likely go on ten trips (a few more are probably in the pipeline). I am going to interview in the 10 programs I can see myself being trained for 4+ years, and as such I am going to rank them 1-10 based on the interview experiences I will have.

    On match day if you get your #1 choice or your #7 choice I don't think it should matter much, no one should be in tears in other words as one poster said above. Your entire rank list should consist of programs that you can see yourself being happy in. If you hate a program dont rank it #10, dont rank it at all unless you feel you need it as a safety net.
     
  42. Poety

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    I agree, however, for me, I'd rather just not match and scramble then go to a program I HATE :) seems like some of these people ranked some programs that they really really really didn't want - I was following up on some posts and they even said that they wanted to switch out!

    So whats the consensus? Do you all believe the stuff about a game? Will you play the game? I'm definitely letting my number one know they are number one - if they don't rank me high, oh well !

    What are your thoughts?
     
  43. mosche

    mosche Senior Member
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    I agree 100%. It seems funny to me that everyone says that they are NOT playing the game; and, yet, there seems to be complete astonishment when the match is announced. Further, I suspect that there are many disillusined PDs who were told by applicants that their program would be ranked #1, only to discover that said applicant matched elsewhere.

    My philosophy: my home school is currently at the top, and everyone else is competing for 2-10. If I fail to match at my home school, then my number 2 is my top "other" program; if I fail to match there, then I will match at one of the cities that I really, really love!

    No matter how it works out, I WIN! BTW, if I don't like a program/city then I WILL NOT rank it--even as a back-up! Just my 2pennies.
     
  44. ears

    ears Senior Member
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    I don't know... the fact is, the stakes are very different for the programs, who have multiple slots each year than for you who will only go one place, and only next year. The impact on the program of whether any given candidate comes is proportionally much less than the impact of where you go.

    But the flip side is this; there probably are lots of places where you could go and get great training and start a good career and be happy. Your success (and even happiness) probably has a lot more to do with you than with where you go. Decide to be happy! What do you have to lose? (I know this is easier to say than do.)
     
  45. mosche

    mosche Senior Member
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    This may be true,:however, it still misses my point. Too many people on both sides play too many games! Rationalizing it by saying that you have more to lose, in no way justifies it. Besides, the PD whose job security is partly dependant upon the calibur of residents that she attracts to a program, would argue that she has just as much to lose--if not more--as does the applicant!
     
  46. medlaw06

    medlaw06 Just Medicine
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    i was reading this thread and its very interesting the games that BOTH sides play....but the sad part is is that it TRULY hurts those applicants who are SERIOUS about their #1 place...

    For example, I REALLY wanna go to this 1 place for residency...haven't gotten an interview yet even though they have already started offerring them...so I called and told them that I am still highly interested and that they ARE my #1 choice (which BTW they REALLY are and no...I didn't say it just like that, and was more discrete than the way I wrote it here)...the lady on the other line LITERALLY laughed (not in a mean way) and said "I'm sure we are."

    NOt cool MAN!! Not cool!!
     
  47. OldPsychDoc

    OldPsychDoc Senior Curmudgeon
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    Oh come on--no PD is going to be on an unemployment line for a bad recruiting year. :rolleyes: (This isn't college sports, after all!) Most PDs have plenty of job security as clinicians or researchers if they are asked to leave aside their residency education role.
     
  48. mosche

    mosche Senior Member
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    Now, now. I said her job is only partly dependant upon her ability to attract top candidates--one perfect example is the Vanderbilt PD position, where this was a stated problem! I admit that Vanderbilt is likely a unique example; however, it does illustrate the point.

    Finally, my point is still this: DON'T play games with your future! Someone always loses in games; if the program is as immune as some seem to suggest, then the loser will be the resident applicant.
     
  49. drbetty

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    Bumping this ol' thread which provides a nice dose of reality and humility ...and a touch of paranoia...for this time of year...
     
    #49 drbetty, Jan 4, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2009
  50. peerie

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    Oh great. I was just starting to think that I had some nice feedback from my top choices because of emails, cards etc and now I am plunged back into despair.

    Seriously, this thread is really something to think about. My top choice has always been pleasant and friendly but has never said anything to me to lead me to think they are going to do anything special for me. Other programs have made similar comments to those described above. One even said 'we want you to come here.' I would be happy to go there, though. There were alot of places I didn't think would be a good fit for me so I really have about 6 programs I would feel comfortable ranking. This feels really stressful. :(
     

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