Thoughts on Business Courses while in Dental School?

[monkeya41]

Please preface your answer stating if you are either (a) current Dentists (b) current dental students (c) neither a or b but simply have an opinion.

I plan on taking business courses. What courses do you believe are most relevant/applicable that would give me a competitive advantage over other dentists once I am in the field? What should I focus my learning on? Any other advice?

Thanks,

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[Carbohydrates]

Are you a dental student? Or applying?

 

[schmoob]

Courses you should focus on in dental school:
Anatomy
Dental anatomy
Biochemistry
Microbiology
Etc.....
If you are doing well and still have time on your hands, go to the lab and practice.

If you want to do well, you will have time to learn the business side of it. But before learning the ins and outs of the business of dentistry, you should learn to be a dentist. You're going to a school that is costing hundreds of thousands of dollars, so I recommend you make the most out your purchase.
You will graduate, maybe do a GPR, then get a job somewhere for a 1-2 years. This is the time you should use for developing your business knowledge.
If you still find yourself with an itch for business while in dental school despite all this, there are lots of online resources, journals, tutorials, etc. I would not register and take any additional coursework.

 

[toothdoctor123]

I'm a dental student.

I'm sure any basic business courses would serve you well. But gaining knowledge to give you a "competitive advantage over other dentists" is the wrong mindset. You will not make any friends that way. Your business will depend on your reputation among colleagues, especially if you are a specialist reliant on referrals. If you're truly a good businessman, they'd be happy to work FOR you, not against you!

 

[monkeya41]

Thanks all for the responses. Yes, I just got accepted into four schools - so I am just trying to see if taking business courses are even on my radar - and if so, what perspective I should take in looking into their business courses/networks.

Thanks again for the responses - much appreciated.

 

[dentalcpa90]

Just spend time on dentaltown. You'll get more info there than any class.

 

[Universitygeek]

I'm pre-dent

Your question is the exact reason my undergrad is a business major. If I'm going to spend 4 years in dental school taking science courses, then I might as well do a business degree undergrad while taking prerequisite science courses. A business major not only gives me some business knowledge which I don't plan on receiving in dental school, but also helps me to stand out a bit from the other applicants. If for some reason dental school doesn't work out, a business major gives me something to fall back on.

 

[schmoob]

That's good forward thinking.
But the business degree won't really get you to stand out, these days applicants have all kinds of undergrad majors.
Also, depending on your goals, I would not count on having a business major being a fall back. Unless you plan on getting an MBA from a big name, an undergrad business degree won't really get you too far in the market. I understand there are exceptions and entrepreneurs and Steve Jobs etc, I'm just talking about the job market and income potential.
Either way, sounds like you're trying to set yourself up for success. good luck!

 

[8_man]

Please preface your answer stating if you are either (a) current Dentists (b) current dental students (c) neither a or b but simply have an opinion.

I plan on taking business courses. What courses do you believe are most relevant/applicable that would give me a competitive advantage over other dentists once I am in the field? What should I focus my learning on? Any other advice?

Thanks,

I'm a "C" (accepted pre-dental student).

In my opinion, the biggest competitive advantage you can have over other dentists is... being a better dentist. If you're good at what you do, the money will follow. Positive word of mouth from your patients will do you more good than any fancy marketing strategy you'll learn.

As for classes, though... accounting and marketing sound good.

 

[monkeya41]

Thanks guys. Any other resources would be helpful. I had not heard of dentaltown before...

 

[toothdoctor123]

Thanks guys. Any other resources would be helpful. I had not heard of dentaltown before...

Subscribe to Dental Economics. It's free! There are at least a few interesting articles about marketing, buying/selling a practice, staff management, etc. each month. I think it helps you get into the headspace of mid- and late-career dentists, which is otherwise hard to do as a student. (But again, I'm only a student myself.)

http://www.dentaleconomics.com

One thing almost every dentist I know has told me is that the success of your business depends on your personality almost as much as your clinical skills. Patients don't have the expertise to appreciate good dental work, so they judge dentists primarily on the basis of chairside manner. Your personality also determines whether you'll be effective and respected as an employer. You'll have a leg up on other dentists by cultivating loyalty and productiveness among your staff.

Thus in addition to marketing and accounting, management and communication are good topics to begin studying. It even pays to have those "soft skills" as early as in dental school.

 

[schmoob]

Subscribe to Dental Economics. It's free! There are at least a few interesting articles about marketing, buying/selling a practice, staff management, etc. each month. I think it helps you get into the headspace of mid- and late-career dentists, which is otherwise hard to do as a student. (But again, I'm only a student myself.)

http://www.dentaleconomics.com

One thing almost every dentist I know has told me is that the success of your business depends on your personality almost as much as your clinical skills. Patients don't have the expertise to appreciate good dental work, so they judge dentists primarily on the basis of chairside manner. Your personality also determines whether you'll be effective and respected as an employer. You'll have a leg up on other dentists by cultivating loyalty and productiveness among your staff.

Thus in addition to marketing and accounting, management and communication are good topics to begin studying. It even pays to have those "soft skills" as early as in dental school.

This is probably now in my top 10 of postings I have read on SDN.

Seriously, awesome guidance.

 

[monkeya41]

This is probably now in my top 10 of postings I have read on SDN.

Seriously, awesome guidance.

Thanks so much!

 

[Universitygeek]

That's good forward thinking.
But the business degree won't really get you to stand out, these days applicants have all kinds of undergrad majors.
Also, depending on your goals, I would not count on having a business major being a fall back. Unless you plan on getting an MBA from a big name, an undergrad business degree won't really get you too far in the market. I understand there are exceptions and entrepreneurs and Steve Jobs etc, I'm just talking about the job market and income potential.
Either way, sounds like you're trying to set yourself up for success. good luck!

Thanks! To clarify a bit, I think it largely depends on what kind of business degree you're going for whether you need an MBA or a big name school. For instance, I think an accounting degree is really useful in my situation because accountants are always in demand and while they don't make a ton, they have a lot of job security and can eventually open up their own business as a CPA. Also, a dentist with accounting knowledge is at an advantage since they have their finances in place and know how to track the cash flow and growth of their practice. I think especially with business degrees it depends largely on which specific one you're interested in. Like MIS or international business wouldn't be too helpful for someone who wants to go into dentistry if that makes sense.

 

[schmoob]

Thanks! To clarify a bit, I think it largely depends on what kind of business degree you're going for whether you need an MBA or a big name school. For instance, I think an accounting degree is really useful in my situation because accountants are always in demand and while they don't make a ton, they have a lot of job security and can eventually open up their own business as a CPA. Also, a dentist with accounting knowledge is at an advantage since they have their finances in place and know how to track the cash flow and growth of their practice. I think especially with business degrees it depends largely on which specific one you're interested in. Like MIS or international business wouldn't be too helpful for someone who wants to go into dentistry if that makes sense.

Makes total sense. You're thinking outside the box and preparing for the future at a young age, you'll do well.
Good luck!

 

[Frank Kennedy]

I am a business minor and I honestly feel that little of what I learned will help me run a practice more efficiently. The topics are generally very broad, I think your best bet is to invest your time in learning about the business of dentistry on your own. This way you cut out, all the unnecessary material you would learn.

 

[DentalAptitude]

I am biased, but believe I am a decent source for this type of info! I will add a contradicting opinion - I say run far far away from Dentaltown and Dental Economics for business knowledge. The information is largely centered around sales, not written to provide useful information. In Dental Economics, there are tidbits of useful stuff for absolute beginners to the dental business realm, but take it with a grain of salt. Remember, to get the real information from those guys, you have to pay them. It's 75-90% sales driven, then every once in a while I read something awesome.

IMO, and this is just me, Dentaltown is worse depending on how you use it. Advice on forums is largely distributed by consultants - many of whom have no dental experience but plenty of business background. What I hate seeing on there is the consultants copying and pasting crap they already have laying around. Also, most of the consultants on there are very experienced - but with the caveat that many of them have not updated their practices in 10+ years. I do like Dentaltown when it's largely dentists having discussion, but sometimes its difficult to understand what they are talking about unless you've worked in the dental industry before.

Stay away from dental business books, the overwhelming majority of them are worse then the aforementioned resources. The best place to start, again in my opinion, is with your uni's classes, or youtube lectures from other universities. Focus on accounting, marketing, and management courses (economics is the study of the economy to understand interest rates, inflation, GDP; not useful for running a practice). Once you've learned the lingo of business, you will be able to apply it in a surprising number of ways to dental situations. Feel free to message me if you'd like to talk more.

Edit: glancing at this, its a bit harsh on those places. They aren't really terrible, but I still feel there are better ways to learn. I think the main thing to take away, and the reason why I dissent, is not because they suck, but you have to take it all with a grain of salt.
As a bonus, check out Dentalpreneur podcast by Dr. mark Costas, as well as Gary Takacs' podcast. Both not bad, I listen to them in the car and while I workout, but again they can be sales driven and useless at times, and amazing at others. Try the youtube courses from other universities before those to get an initial grasp. Hope this helped.

 

[schmoob]

I am biased, but believe I am a decent source for this type of info! I will add a contradicting opinion - I say run far far away from Dentaltown and Dental Economics for business knowledge. The information is largely centered around sales, not written to provide useful information. In Dental Economics, there are tidbits of useful stuff for absolute beginners to the dental business realm, but take it with a grain of salt. Remember, to get the real information from those guys, you have to pay them. It's 75-90% sales driven, then every once in a while I read something awesome.

IMO, and this is just me, Dentaltown is worse depending on how you use it. Advice on forums is largely distributed by consultants - many of whom have no dental experience but plenty of business background. What I hate seeing on there is the consultants copying and pasting crap they already have laying around. Also, most of the consultants on there are very experienced - but with the caveat that many of them have not updated their practices in 10+ years. I do like Dentaltown when it's largely dentists having discussion, but sometimes its difficult to understand what they are talking about unless you've worked in the dental industry before.

Stay away from dental business books, the overwhelming majority of them are worse then the aforementioned resources. The best place to start, again in my opinion, is with your uni's classes, or youtube lectures from other universities. Focus on accounting, marketing, and management courses (economics is the study of the economy to understand interest rates, inflation, GDP; not useful for running a practice). Once you've learned the lingo of business, you will be able to apply it in a surprising number of ways to dental situations. Feel free to message me if you'd like to talk more.

Edit: glancing at this, its a bit harsh on those places. They aren't really terrible, but I still feel there are better ways to learn. I think the main thing to take away, and the reason why I dissent, is not because they suck, but you have to take it all with a grain of salt.
As a bonus, check out Dentalpreneur podcast by Dr. mark Costas, as well as Gary Takacs' podcast. Both not bad, I listen to them in the car and while I workout, but again they can be sales driven and useless at times, and amazing at others. Try the youtube courses from other universities before those to get an initial grasp. Hope this helped.

Also great info.
It's kind of like SDN, you just have to decide what info is actually useful.
Great post!

 

[setdoc7]

It is very interesting that you have been told to shy away from business education while in dental school, while many of the schools are now incorporating combined degrees into their programs clearly imparting that the dental education is not enough. Although a masters in bioethics or MPH may not be a great tool other than for administration, some schools are offering an MBA, JD, and Masters in Education. All useful for a variety of career paths. IMHO dentists must embrace that we are in a business, and our product is care. This is in no way negating clinical acumen, but we are after all a for profit entity. Those who wish to minimize the business end of our profession need only look to companies like J&J, Dentsply, Astra Zeneca, Nobel, etc. They recognize how big a business dentistry is.
If you have any doubts about our lack of business knowledge, ask your family dentist what his/her margin is on each procedure. Most will not know. They simply charge what the "going rate" is. That is not how real business operates. As with anything else in dentistry, it is better to know what you are doing than to guess.

 

[monkeya41]

I am biased, but believe I am a decent source for this type of info! I will add a contradicting opinion - I say run far far away from Dentaltown and Dental Economics for business knowledge. The information is largely centered around sales, not written to provide useful information. In Dental Economics, there are tidbits of useful stuff for absolute beginners to the dental business realm, but take it with a grain of salt. Remember, to get the real information from those guys, you have to pay them. It's 75-90% sales driven, then every once in a while I read something awesome.

IMO, and this is just me, Dentaltown is worse depending on how you use it. Advice on forums is largely distributed by consultants - many of whom have no dental experience but plenty of business background. What I hate seeing on there is the consultants copying and pasting crap they already have laying around. Also, most of the consultants on there are very experienced - but with the caveat that many of them have not updated their practices in 10+ years. I do like Dentaltown when it's largely dentists having discussion, but sometimes its difficult to understand what they are talking about unless you've worked in the dental industry before.

Stay away from dental business books, the overwhelming majority of them are worse then the aforementioned resources. The best place to start, again in my opinion, is with your uni's classes, or youtube lectures from other universities. Focus on accounting, marketing, and management courses (economics is the study of the economy to understand interest rates, inflation, GDP; not useful for running a practice). Once you've learned the lingo of business, you will be able to apply it in a surprising number of ways to dental situations. Feel free to message me if you'd like to talk more.

Edit: glancing at this, its a bit harsh on those places. They aren't really terrible, but I still feel there are better ways to learn. I think the main thing to take away, and the reason why I dissent, is not because they suck, but you have to take it all with a grain of salt.
As a bonus, check out Dentalpreneur podcast by Dr. mark Costas, as well as Gary Takacs' podcast. Both not bad, I listen to them in the car and while I workout, but again they can be sales driven and useless at times, and amazing at others. Try the youtube courses from other universities before those to get an initial grasp. Hope this helped.

It is very interesting that you have been told to shy away from business education while in dental school, while many of the schools are now incorporating combined degrees into their programs clearly imparting that the dental education is not enough. Although a masters in bioethics or MPH may not be a great tool other than for administration, some schools are offering an MBA, JD, and Masters in Education. All useful for a variety of career paths. IMHO dentists must embrace that we are in a business, and our product is care. This is in no way negating clinical acumen, but we are after all a for profit entity. Those who wish to minimize the business end of our profession need only look to companies like J&J, Dentsply, Astra Zeneca, Nobel, etc. They recognize how big a business dentistry is.
If you have any doubts about our lack of business knowledge, ask your family dentist what his/her margin is on each procedure. Most will not know. They simply charge what the "going rate" is. That is not how real business operates. As with anything else in dentistry, it is better to know what you are doing than to guess.

Thank you, you two. I am very interested in learning the operations, management, and marketing side of the dental business + obviously providing high quality clinical care. Do you guys have any resources other than the ones mentioned on additional ways to increase revenue/margins (ethically) in general dentistry/ortho? Do you recommend any resources out there on starting more corporate-type practice(s) - and how to do that organically vs. raising capital, etc.? Excuse me if I sound ignorant - because I am. Thanks again.

 

[DentalAptitude]

Thank you, you two. I am very interested in learning the operations, management, and marketing side of the dental business + obviously providing high quality clinical care. Do you guys have any resources other than the ones mentioned on additional ways to increase revenue/margins (ethically) in general dentistry/ortho? Do you recommend any resources out there on starting more corporate-type practice(s) - and how to do that organically vs. raising capital, etc.? Excuse me if I sound ignorant - because I am. Thanks again.

Honestly, there's no resource that's going to groom you to succeed as a business owner in dentistry, other than good ole' experience. I thought I knew it all - and then I started working at a dental practice during my gap year. I not only don't know it all, but each time I learn something, it was one step forward, two steps back. Not that I am regressing, rather there is always something to be learned from both all experiences whether positive or negative.

That being said, Dr. Mark Costas does address growth extensively during his podcast "Dentalpreneur." From what you've described about what you want to learn, he'd be a good resource. I still think business courses and lecture videos should come before you dive really deep down in this podcast, that way you have a more informed opinion about what guest speakers will say rather than treating their opinions as a fact.

Touching on what you asked: Increasing margins is in my opinion a more effective manner of producing good business results rather than focusing on the top line. Many dentists aim to increase production by accepting more insurance plans, but don't realize how much lower the margins are on those patients. They work harder, "earn" more, but take home less by seeing those patients. So, it comes down to understanding insurance in this very particular example. To understand insurance, you have to understand contracts and their implications financially and logistically. It also comes down to understanding accounting - mulling through accounts and ledgers is like reading gibberish sometimes. This example has had no particular direction, but I just wanted to bring a dental example into terms of reality; what we actually deal with on a daily basis. Don't forget on top of dealing with insurances you have to have good AR, treatment estimates, collection policies, and more. That comes from having a knowledgeable officer manager, whose duties are set and guided by you! Also, check the resource in my signature 🙂