Thoughts on BWH and MGH after interview day

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styleandsugar

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Likely my top two choices, and for those of you that interviewed at both of these programs, what you thoughts (pros/cons) were, and interview day impressions?? If anyone got details on how the services are supposed to work next year (I think BWH included a summary of it in packets but don't know about MGH), would be awesome if you could share! Additionally, did anyone else NOT get a "malignant" vibe at MGH that appears to be the stereotype? Both programs seemed incredibly friendly.

I also recently received a really nice "ranked to match" call from MGH but have noted in previous threads "horror stories" about some people that received this call and ranked them #1 not matching there. Any other insight about these calls?

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How come you did not post the MGH invitations? You only posted the BWH and BI invitation.

We have a troll
 
I don't blame you for ranking BWH and MGH as your top two choices, I'm in the same boat. I didn't see any thing malignant about MGH, and I agree they were both very friendly. I felt the people I met at Brigham were just a little happier but thats subjective.

I didn't get your "ranked to match" call but I did receive a call asking if I want to come back in mid Feb at their expense. Thats a no brainer of course. I had already planned a trip, on a eariler date , for a second look at each program. So it looks like I'm going back to Boston two more times, and I hope that will make the decision easier. Not to assume that I'll rank at either, but I sure hope so.

They told me at BWH that "almost" everyone that interviewes will probably match if they want. This wasn't directed to me, just a fact. They interview half as many applicants as MGH so they screen differently.
 
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I also got one of those post-interview recruiting calls from my MGH panel chair singing my praises and stating that I'll be ranked in the "very top group of applicants," though they still have interviews left to go, and that I should plan on matching at MGH if I rank it first. I do not believe this and simply consider it to be part of the Match game. Thankfully, the chairman stopped short of asking me for a commitment on ranking MGH, though I certainly told him I'll rank it highly and stay in touch. They had previously invited that to spend a day with an inpatient team before my interview, which I had accepted (edit: I think they offered this to everyone). BWH has not called me with such flattery (edit: I mean post-interview calls like MGH did).

Am also struggling to choose between ranking BWH or MGH first. BWH seems to be the popular choice among the elite med school grads these days and I had done a sub I there, but also really loved MGH and didn't get the malignant vibe. My friends there love it too.

Both programs are excellent and I'll likely go with my gut come rank list time.
 
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How come you did not post the MGH invitations? You only posted the BWH and BI invitation.

We have a troll

Hey sorry. I started being lazy about posting my invites.

Thanks to the others for their input. I agree that I'm absolutely clueless about which one to go with at #1, although it doesn't seem like one can go wrong with either.

Vrq, I have heard not a zip from BWH.
 
Hi all -

Since some people who interviewed at BWH and MGH are looking at this thread, I wondered if I could change the subject a little and ask for your perspectives. I'm curious to hear about your impressions of the two places compared with each other, using concrete examples (e.g. rotation schedules, leadership etc.). I'm an HMS student and it can be hard to get a fresh look at these programs because we don't know much about how things are done elsewhere. Would love to hear about how others see the places.
 
By way of bona fides, I interviewed at both these institutions last month. Jr year AOA, top twenty med school, Boards of 260 and 265-

1.Style andSugar- thought the rules of the match precluded contact by way of phone conversations, just written "likely" letters because phone conversations could become coercive/stalking/hectoring in nature.
2. VRQ- Also, Ive never heard of any serious program in medicine paying for second visit expenses except for an a)URM and /or b)MD/PHD/Clin Investigator/short track applicant. (can we assume you fit under one of those categories ?)
3. There was no mention at our BW sessions that we were all essentially in if we ranked it high/first
4. If MGH interviewing so many more applicants (it does have a few more spots to be sure each year) why would they interview so many more applicants only to distinguish publicly between likely and not likely at this stage ? they would only interview more if they had to go down further on their list to match, and would not wish to alienate anyone who did not have such contact
5. As for encouraging a second visit, that is de rigour -dont overinterpret this- relatively few people, including those that match there, do

BTW- an HMS student informed us at our session that well over 50 of this years class applying to BW and MGH in medicine. For us outside applicants, I would caution getting overly confident and take care in selecting your 3rd ranked program- you may very well end up being matched there
 
By way of bona fides, I interviewed at both these institutions last month. Jr year AOA, top twenty med school, Boards of 260 and 265-

1.Style andSugar- thought the rules of the match precluded contact by way of phone conversations, just written "likely" letters because phone conversations could become coercive/stalking/hectoring in nature.
2. VRQ- Also, Ive never heard of any serious program in medicine paying for second visit expenses except for an a)URM and /or b)MD/PHD/Clin Investigator/short track applicant. (can we assume you fit under one of those categories ?)
3. There was no mention at our BW sessions that we were all essentially in if we ranked it high/first
4. If MGH interviewing so many more applicants (it does have a few more spots to be sure each year) why would they interview so many more applicants only to distinguish publicly between likely and not likely at this stage ? they would only interview more if they had to go down further on their list to match, and would not wish to alienate anyone who did not have such contact
5. As for encouraging a second visit, that is de rigour -dont overinterpret this- relatively few people, including those that match there, do

BTW- an HMS student informed us at our session that well over 50 of this years class applying to BW and MGH in medicine. For us outside applicants, I would caution getting overly confident and take care in selecting your 3rd ranked program- you may very well end up being matched there

Sounds like you're a top flight applicant.

(1) I don't think there's a total prohibition on phone calls. Read section 6.0 of the MPA:

http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/policies/map_main.html#restrictions

(2) MGH invited everyone the chance to spend a second day with an inpatient team; probably only some people accepted. It means nothing.

(3) Multiple other interviewees on other days told me that BWH told me as well that they mentioned that 50% or greater of us will be in a position to match if we rank them first, barring a change from historical data. My group was told the same on our interview day as well.

(4) Can't speak for MGH's policies but they contact a large number of applicants post-interview by phone and have a reputation (see the rank list PowerPoint from NRMP with an example from "Famous Eastern Medical School General Hospital") for telling applicants they are ranked to match when in fact they are not.

See also this thread on calls from MGH panel chairs: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=597811

(5) Even if this is a slight tick upward in HMS applicants, look at the proportion of residents at both institutions from outside HMS. Also, MGH denied interviews to some HMS students this year per multiple contacts of mine. That said, having a solid 3rd choice is critical as well.
 
At the beginning I did not believe the "second look" invitation with the expenses covered. However, now I have a reason to believe it.

Apparently BW and MGH have already chosen some "favorite candidates".

My guess is that not everyone receives this "second look" invitation.
 
that MGH is paying expenses for anyone to return for second visit unless they are URM and/or MD/PHd/ short track candidate -
 
By way of bona fides, I interviewed at both these institutions last month. Jr year AOA, top twenty med school, Boards of 260 and 265-

1.Style andSugar- thought the rules of the match precluded contact by way of phone conversations, just written "likely" letters because phone conversations could become coercive/stalking/hectoring in nature.
2. VRQ- Also, Ive never heard of any serious program in medicine paying for second visit expenses except for an a)URM and /or b)MD/PHD/Clin Investigator/short track applicant. (can we assume you fit under one of those categories ?)
3. There was no mention at our BW sessions that we were all essentially in if we ranked it high/first
4. If MGH interviewing so many more applicants (it does have a few more spots to be sure each year) why would they interview so many more applicants only to distinguish publicly between likely and not likely at this stage ? they would only interview more if they had to go down further on their list to match, and would not wish to alienate anyone who did not have such contact
5. As for encouraging a second visit, that is de rigour -dont overinterpret this- relatively few people, including those that match there, do

BTW- an HMS student informed us at our session that well over 50 of this years class applying to BW and MGH in medicine. For us outside applicants, I would caution getting overly confident and take care in selecting your 3rd ranked program- you may very well end up being matched there

1) I thought rules of match precluded contact too, so I was very surprised when I received a call. People have previously posted about receiving these calls as an opportunity "to answer anymore questions they may have." Mine essentially told me I would be there next year if I chose to be. Again, I don't put any stock in this, as I've seen old posts indicating that they heard of "someone/some people" receiving a call of interest, ranked it 1, and did not match there. I remember an old MGH resident defending this by saying that they look historically at how many people it takes to fill there class, and one year they did this but had to go much less farther down the list...hence, some people that received calls got screwed. Apparently they are more conservative about it now, but who knows. Anyways, I don't think they call everyone, but I also don't put too much stock in the call.
2) Also, I didn't receive a second look invitation.
3) Unless they only said this at one interview day (that the other poster happened and I both happened to be at), BWH definitely said that 1/2 of us would end up there if we chose to rank it 1.
4) I'm not sure why MGH does this (makes calls). I do know that Brigham has previously made calls too come February (per a resident). I also received an out of the blue email from the PD at UCSF essentially saying they would love to have me there, so I don't think post-interview contact from an institution is abnormal.

In terms of the HMS student thing, neither nor MGH/BWH is going to select an "HMS-heavy" student class. Lack of institutional diversity just makes them look bad. I think on average based on a quick glance, 10 people a year are from HMS at BWH (about 20%?). MGH is a little more diverse.
 
From last year's perspective - BWH did call some people and almost all of them matched at the Brigham, if I remember correctly. MGH-wise, a good number of us got calls/outreach from the committee chairs and others - not everyone who did matched there, however. Neither program did second looks - but hey, things could change in a year.

For those of you to whom this applies...MGH categorical calls are made by the committee chair. MGH PC will reach out in more diffuse ways (residents, etc.). BWH, on the other hand, does both no matter whether PC or categorical.

As for points 3 and 4...

3) This 1/2 quote may not be true - almost EVERYONE I know who interviewed at BWH (east coat perspective, at least) ranked it one unless they had a compelling geographic/partner issue or preferred UCSF due to location. Of all my colleagues who ranked BWH one, only a few matched there, and they were ALL either HMS or Yale kids. (Admittedly, I know of at least one from both of those schools who got a call, ranked BWH #1 and didn't match, but those may be outliers...).

4) BWH will not take a Harvard class entirely but does show a preference - two years ago, they took something like 11. BWH also tends to show a very strong preference for specific schools, as evidenced by their classes - when we applied, a ton of Yale kids ended up there. The year before, Penn sent something like 6-8, etc. MGH is a bit more egalitarian - people are coming from everywhere (including strong state schools) with good representation from the top schools as well but fewer HMSers than BWH.

What I found interesting last year was the prediliction that BWH and MGH have for certain schools. Looking at match lists from the past couple of years, BWH always had consistent representation from Yale, Penn, UCSF, Cornell, Chicago, Emory and Stanford in particular. MGH, meanwhile, tends to have a broader spread but with a consistent showing from Columbia, Sinai, Duke, Vanderbilt and the other Southern schools. Hopkins sends to both liberally.

Not sure how this works out but it does - in Virginia, for example, UVA kids tend to match at BWH and not at MGH, whereas VCU kids traditionally interview/match en masse at MGH but not at BWH.

Anyway, enough digression. Bottom line: both programs are exceptional. BWH's crowd is a little more Ivy heavy; MGH's is a bit more diverse.

Best of luck y'all, it's a great dilemma to have. 🙂


1) I thought rules of match precluded contact too, so I was very surprised when I received a call. People have previously posted about receiving these calls as an opportunity "to answer anymore questions they may have." Mine essentially told me I would be there next year if I chose to be. Again, I don't put any stock in this, as I've seen old posts indicating that they heard of "someone/some people" receiving a call of interest, ranked it 1, and did not match there. I remember an old MGH resident defending this by saying that they look historically at how many people it takes to fill there class, and one year they did this but had to go much less farther down the list...hence, some people that received calls got screwed. Apparently they are more conservative about it now, but who knows. Anyways, I don't think they call everyone, but I also don't put too much stock in the call.
2) Also, I didn't receive a second look invitation.
3) Unless they only said this at one interview day (that the other poster happened and I both happened to be at), BWH definitely said that 1/2 of us would end up there if we chose to rank it 1.

4) I'm not sure why MGH does this (makes calls). I do know that Brigham has previously made calls too come February (per a resident). I also received an out of the blue email from the PD at UCSF essentially saying they would love to have me there, so I don't think post-interview contact from an institution is abnormal.

In terms of the HMS student thing, neither nor MGH/BWH is going to select an "HMS-heavy" student class. Lack of institutional diversity just makes them look bad. I think on average based on a quick glance, 10 people a year are from HMS at BWH (about 20%?). MGH is a little more diverse.
 
Do BWH and MGH work together on the list of applicants?

I had the impression they elaborated together the list of interviewees and that they will work together in the ranking list.

What are your thoughts?
 
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I would be shocked if this were true. MGH and BWH are in tight competition, as far as recruiting residents goes.
 
i am also deciding between these two programs, and while i know it is a ridiculously privileged dilemma to have, it is still a tough decision. i really loved both interview days, and i know either program would be a great place to train. it also seems like with the changes coming next year, some of the classic differences between the programs might be lost, so i think it becomes more difficult to distinguish.
i was wondering if anyone got any insight into which program might have the upper hand in terms of health equities training/treating the underserved. i know the brigham is more well established in the global health arena with the amazing four year track and paul farmer (though the new mgh track sounds great for those who want global primary care careers), but what about in boston? which place sees a more diverse patient population? any hms'ers have an opinion on this?
to contribute to the other questions on this thread, i got a call from my panel chair at mgh (very nice but who knows if it means anything) and haven't heard from bwh (except nice responses to my thank you notes). as for the paid second look debate, i've never heard of this except for md/phd folks, but who knows what is happening this year. i'm trying not to let any of this stuff get in my head, which is of course easier said than done!
good luck to all the rest of you as you make decisions!
 
I interviewed at both places. Since I abhor the city of Boston, I won't be ranking either number 1. However, if location wasn't an issue, I would choose the Brigham.

On my interview day, the residents at the Brigham were a lot nicer and more real and more down to earth. The residents at MGH seemed like they were trying extra hard to overcome the malignant stereotype. Too hard, IMO. Also, it seems that MGH folks are just in love, in love, in love with the idea of being a part of the MGH brand. I also did not care for the months on a strictly private service. They also didn't seem too friendly with one another and/or know each other.

About 2nd looks, Brigham offered me one with travel paid for, but via email. I turned them down, b/c although I really love the program, I know I can't rank them number 1 due to my issue with their location. So I didn't want to waste their money... 🙁

ETA: About a lot of Yale kids at BWH...From what my Yale friends have told me, Yale folks who go into IM and want to stay in the Northeast feel like they have to decide btw Boston and New York< since 3 more years in New Haven is not an attractive option for most. Since New York programs have a rep for more scut given the nursing situation, many try to go to Boston. I think most end up choosing Brigham over MGH, b/c Brigham is perceived to have a more welcoming environment.
 
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anyone gotten a ranked to match call or email from BWH?
 
Interviewed at BWH and MGH. Ranking these as my top 2. Was doing a happy dance this Tuesday after receiving that call from MGH. Freaking out now after reading this thread...

Can anyone pull up the posts where somebody got called by MGH, ranked it #1, and didn't match? That just sounds horribly, horribly cruel...
 
anyone gotten a ranked to match call or email from BWH?

A BWH resident told me that you won't hear from BWH til Match Day. Maybe that's just him.
 
Has anyone received a ranked to match call from BWH this season? when?
 
Just made out my match list, and while I'm not Ivy League med school or from the West Coast or New England, I ranked UCSF, MGH , BIDMC, BW 1-4 in that order. All great programs IMO, but SF is so beautiful, you dont have to wait for May for Spring to arrive, and the Asian dining options are incomparable.

That said, I thought all the three Harvard programs were excellent as well. My impression of them, based on interviews, a second vist at MGH, and talking to several HMS college friends who are interns or applying in medicine this year:

MGH - very strong in cards, GI, ID especially, also excellent primary care options. Applicants looking for a lot of autonomy, exeptionally strong clincial exposure in breath and depth will find it all here. The Bigelow rotation is exceptional re the quality, comraderie and uniqueness of the experience. Other than a month each year at tony Newton Wellsley, you're able to stay at the mother ship and have to learn only 1 EMR/computer system. No VA rotations (which I liked as a woman). I also liked prospect of living in near waterfront/Beacon Hill rather than Brookline/Fenway medical "ghetto."

BIDMC- best call schedule by far, arguably the happiest residents and the best teaching program/emphasis. Hospital runs like butter. State of Art EMR. Very strong critical care and GI, primary care experiences. As with BW, Roxbury VA rotations were a slight negative for me.

BW - very strong in cards and heme-onc. More research oriented for sure. Relatively "weak" in GI (no liver transplants and almost nobody goes into GI...cause vs effect ?) Also spend a good deal of time at Faulkner and Roxbury VA. Noticeably, a lot of HMS grads (?clique-y?) dated EMR

As a women who wants the strongest clinical experience as a resident contemplating a clinical career in GI, MGH came out on top for me. I suppose a guy contemplating an academic career in heme-onc would surely prefer BW, and I could certainly see why anyone going into GI, critical care, or primary care and doesnt see themseleves slaving away in a wet lab the rest of their lives would jump at the BIDMC.

Although I hope to be in SF next year, all the Harvard programs are great , and they all are friendly supportive places IMO, albeit with different approaches/expectations. If I cant match at UCSF, I would be very happy to be at any of these residencies next year (as long as I can get someone to help me shovel some of that 2 feet of snow on the ground in Boston that may still be there in late April ! )
 
Disclaimer: I'm a psych resident doing my medicine months at BWH. I also know interns from BIDMC and do some of my psych months there.

General impressions about BWH:
-This place continually wows me. I'd want to train here if I were a medicine resident.
-Incredible, smart, down-to-earth people. We laugh at work.
-A less hardcore environment than MGH.
-Genuine commitment to teaching.
-Genuine commitment to emotional welfare of its residents.
-Vs. MGH, has the reputation for more resident supervision during internship. Some people look down on this as "hand-holding," but I've never heard an intern at BWH complain. Residents are uniformly helpful and eager to teach.
-Onc and Cards are what most people seem to want to do. Agree that GI is relatively weaker due to no liver transplants; those folks get transferred to MGH.

BIDMC:
-Fewer zebras than BWH, as BIDMC serves the community much much more than BWH.
-Very laid back.
-I rotated on Onc at BWH with a BIDMC resident who thought BWH residents got more teaching than BIDMC residents, FWIW.
-BIDMC interns I know are happy.
-EMR and order entry system are excellent.
 
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