Thoughts on doing an accelerated BSN degree (plus pre-reqs) as a post-bacc?

[beanovertokyo]

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Hi everyone,

I was wondering your thoughts on doing an ABSN instead of a traditional post-bacc program to raise GPA (I'm at 3.1 cumulative and science GPA, no upward trend). I would have to get the prerequisites for this program, which have strong overlap with pre-med pre-reqs, and it could be a way for me to get clinical hours, which I'm currently lacking.

Thanks so much for any advice.

 

[polymerization]

I'm not an advisor, but I think nursing is a really strong choice for a first time undergraduate who really needs to work throughout their education and is a strong planner. An RN can be a 2-year associate's program + 1 year online bridge to the BSN (while working clinically, often reimbursable by a hospital)...then you can focus on your premed requirements through a DIY post-bac and take the MCAT.

It will take slightly longer than just being pre-med through and through, but great for the risk-averse (of which I am a card-carrying member), since being rejected from the medical school process still means you would be highly prepared to pursue CRNA/NP, and would be a top applicant in those pools with a ton of basic sciences nurses don't generally take + the work experience you developed over the course of your post-bac years. Even if you lose in medicine, you can still be a big winner in nursing if you are pulling ~4.0 semesters.

For academic repair, though... I don't know that I'd do it, because there are too many single points of failure and you've already invested time into your first degree, and I imagine you need to keep it moving.

An ABSN is still roughly 2 years and you would not have work experience until after you're licensed. Most hospital jobs (you might actually want/stay off med-surg) require a "nurse residency" that takes a few months before you're really on your own. It might be too much of a detour for you if your ultimate goal is strictly medicine.

You're looking at 4+ years, which may be worth it to you if you suspect you will not be a competitive MD/DO applicant and are hedging your bets, but if you do make it in, that's 4+ years of blood, sweat and tears that are made immediately obsolete upon becoming a medical student.

If time and money are an issue (as they so often are these days), I think you just need to pick one and pursue it full-force. You can do both, but you will invariably look back on your path one way or another and ask yourself why you wasted so much effort.

 

[Med Ed]

How many prerequisites do you need to take? And what is your general timeline for completing them?

 

[wao2221]

Hi everyone,

I was wondering your thoughts on doing an ABSN instead of a traditional post-bacc program to raise GPA (I'm at 3.1 cumulative and science GPA, no upward trend). I would have to get the prerequisites for this program, which have strong overlap with pre-med pre-reqs, and it could be a way for me to get clinical hours, which I'm currently lacking.

Thanks so much for any advice.

I think an ABSN would be a waste of time for a reinventor. It’s an incredibly expensive way to get clinical hours and you’ll still have to take other prereqs.

If you want to work as a nurse before attending med school, it’s not a bad option. It’ll give you clinical experience and some room to save money before school. In this case though, I would just do an ADN in this case since you already have a bachelors and the ADN will be significantly cheaper then ABSN.

 

[Hollow Knight]

So this is application advice and not life advice.

If your goal is to be a doctor, focus on that. Nobody cares what your post bacc major is. Just that you have the classes and the GPA is higher.

If you need clinical hours go be a CNA or something. Getting a bachelor’s to get clinical experience is incredibly inefficient.

I understand the fear of putting all your eggs in the med school basket though. It is what it is. I wish we could somehow rectify that portion of the path but the powers that be in medicine don’t care what I think.

 

[beanovertokyo]

How many prerequisites do you need to take? And what is your general timeline for completing them?

I need to take Biology I and II (I have IB credit for these, but seems like it won't transfer), Orgo II, Biochemistry, possibly an additional English course (I have one), and Sociology(??).

I've taken Chem I and II plus labs, Physics I and II plus labs, Orgo I, Calc series, Stats, Probability, Psychology.

For timeline, I would prefer to keep working full time and space these out. I'm not sure when bias starts to creep in as an older applicant.

 

[beanovertokyo]

I think an ABSN would be a waste of time for a reinventor. It’s an incredibly expensive way to get clinical hours and you’ll still have to take other prereqs.

If you want to work as a nurse before attending med school, it’s not a bad option. It’ll give you clinical experience and some room to save money before school. In this case though, I would just do an ADN in this case since you already have a bachelors and the ADN will be significantly cheaper then ABSN.

Thank you for this advice! Apparently my community college has an ADN program that seems well-respected--they have been designated as a Center of Excellence by the National League of Nursing and have higher than average NCLEX pass rates. Do you think this would be a good program? I think community colleges are great but I know there's some stigma against them.

Although would starting from an ADN make it harder to become an NP?

 

[beanovertokyo]

I'm not an advisor, but I think nursing is a really strong choice for a first time undergraduate who really needs to work throughout their education and is a strong planner. An RN can be a 2-year associate's program + 1 year online bridge to the BSN (while working clinically, often reimbursable by a hospital)...then you can focus on your premed requirements through a DIY post-bac and take the MCAT.

It will take slightly longer than just being pre-med through and through, but great for the risk-averse (of which I am a card-carrying member), since being rejected from the medical school process still means you would be highly prepared to pursue CRNA/NP, and would be a top applicant in those pools with a ton of basic sciences nurses don't generally take + the work experience you developed over the course of your post-bac years. Even if you lose in medicine, you can still be a big winner in nursing if you are pulling ~4.0 semesters.

For academic repair, though... I don't know that I'd do it, because there are too many single points of failure and you've already invested time into your first degree, and I imagine you need to keep it moving.

An ABSN is still roughly 2 years and you would not have work experience until after you're licensed. Most hospital jobs (you might actually want/stay off med-surg) require a "nurse residency" that takes a few months before you're really on your own. It might be too much of a detour for you if your ultimate goal is strictly medicine.

You're looking at 4+ years, which may be worth it to you if you suspect you will not be a competitive MD/DO applicant and are hedging your bets, but if you do make it in, that's 4+ years of blood, sweat and tears that are made immediately obsolete upon becoming a medical student.

If time and money are an issue (as they so often are these days), I think you just need to pick one and pursue it full-force. You can do both, but you will invariably look back on your path one way or another and ask yourself why you wasted so much effort.

Thanks for this--would you mind telling me more about those single points of failure you mentioned? I'm definitely a card-carrying member of the risk-averse club too, and I hope I'm not too crazy for even considering this. I have a BS in Systems Engineering and a career in that field, but a recent stay in the hospital made me think about how much I originally wanted to do medicine.

I definitely don't see myself as a competitive MD/DO applicant, at least not now. To add more detail, I have multiple Ws on my transcript (one full semester of medical withdrawal and three additional later Ws) and one D+ in Differential Equations, ugh.

 

[wao2221]

Thank you for this advice! Apparently my community college has an ADN program that seems well-respected--they have been designated as a Center of Excellence by the National League of Nursing and have higher than average NCLEX pass rates. Do you think this would be a good program? I think community colleges are great but I know there's some stigma against them.

Although would starting from an ADN make it harder to become an NP?

It honestly won’t matter what nursing program you go to. They’re all teach you the same fundamental knowledge. There’s no stigma for ADNs, some bigger hospitals are pushing to have all of their RNs be BSNs but hospitals are so short staffed that beggars can’t be choosers you know.

I can’t speak on if being a ADN will make that more difficult or not but I do know that ADN to MSN bridge programs exist.

 

[polymerization]

Thanks for this--would you mind telling me more about those single points of failure you mentioned? I'm definitely a card-carrying member of the risk-averse club too, and I hope I'm not too crazy for even considering this. I have a BS in Systems Engineering and a career in that field, but a recent stay in the hospital made me think about how much I originally wanted to do medicine.

I definitely don't see myself as a competitive MD/DO applicant, at least not now. To add more detail, I have multiple Ws on my transcript (one full semester of medical withdrawal and three additional later Ws) and one D+ in Differential Equations, ugh.

Really, the catastrophic ending involves going far out of your way to pursue medicine. You quit your job, you go to nursing school, you finish. You start your post-bac. You take the NCLEX, the MCAT, you fulfill your clinical requirements for nursing school and then med school. You get nursing experience, engage in leadership, nonclinical volunteering, research for thousands of hours of your life.

In total, you will have worked twice as hard as any medical school matriculant, accrued significant educational debt, and there are still no guarantees. If we look at the trends in applicants over the last 10 years, we can predict the bar will only climb higher over the next few years (and it's already pretty high today!). If you don't get in, your engineering job probably would've afforded you a better lifestyle and salary than entry-level nursing, so if you find yourself back at your old job, what are we really doing here?

Have you considered a direct-entry DNP? It's got a lower pay ceiling than medicine (obviously), but I think it is a more practical way to go.

 

[RangerBob]

Post-bacs can typically be done in one or two years.

Nursing programs often have watered-down pre-reqs.

Many MD committees are going to look at this nursing degree oddly. As a career changer, it's going to look like you want to go into nursing/changed your mind at that last minute to go to med school (unlike say someone who already has a nursing degree, and eight years later decided to do a post-bac and apply to medical school).

I found doing a formal post-bac held me very accountable and I got the best grades I've ever had in my post-bac, despite more difficult classes.

Now, with all that said, nursing is certainly a great profession and may be worthwhile to look at as well. But if your goal is med school, I'd personally take just the minimum pre-reqs needed, and ace them all.

 

[eigen]

I would not suggest a student who wants to be a physician do an ABSN (or other advanced nursing degree) as a "gap filler".

For one, the courses you will take in an ABSN program are not the ones a medical school wants to see you do well in for a post-bacc. They will be clinical practice classes, not basic or advanced science classes.

For another, I would wonder whether the applicant considered the larger ramifications of their choice. The US currently has a crisis resulting from a lack of qualified, trained, healthcare professionals of all levels. Taking the spot of someone who intends to practice as a nurse just to pad your way into medical school isn't the best show of judgement or understanding of systemic issues.

The case of someone who wanted to be a nurse realizing after practicing that they in fact want to be a physician is quite different than someone who goes to nursing school but never intends to use that degree or certification. If you plan to, say, work as a nurse for 3-5 years after getting the ABSN, then my advice would be different.

If you need coursework, take coursework that is what you need to show you can do well in for medical school.

If you need clinical experience, then get an entry level certification (CNA, etc.) and go work.

 

[beanovertokyo]

I would not suggest a student who wants to be a physician do an ABSN (or other advanced nursing degree) as a "gap filler".

For one, the courses you will take in an ABSN program are not the ones a medical school wants to see you do well in for a post-bacc. They will be clinical practice classes, not basic or advanced science classes.

For another, I would wonder whether the applicant considered the larger ramifications of their choice. The US currently has a crisis resulting from a lack of qualified, trained, healthcare professionals of all levels. Taking the spot of someone who intends to practice as a nurse just to pad your way into medical school isn't the best show of judgement or understanding of systemic issues.

The case of someone who wanted to be a nurse realizing after practicing that they in fact want to be a physician is quite different than someone who goes to nursing school but never intends to use that degree or certification. If you plan to, say, work as a nurse for 3-5 years after getting the ABSN, then my advice would be different.

If you need coursework, take coursework that is what you need to show you can do well in for medical school.

If you need clinical experience, then get an entry level certification (CNA, etc.) and go work.

Thanks for this perspective! I think I will look into starting with an EMT cert and working as an ER technician.