Thoughts on dropping out

[Userhelpneeded]

Well, never thought I’d find myself in this position but here goes.

Mid 30s male with a family(stay at home spouse and kids). I’m coming from another professional career and worked for about a decade and did reasonably well in my position. Six figure salary and built a networth of about 750 k prior to matriculating this year - I think this is important to mention as it holds weight in the decision.

A bit of a background on medicine - it was always something I have wanted to do and spent the better part of the last decade preparing for it. I fell into my previous career by chance and so medicine was always the goal. I worked extra hard to build myself financially so that my family will be okay through this journey of medical education and training. I got accepted to a school up north and a few months after that I started getting cold feet but chocked it up to a natural feeling that one would get to let go of a good paycheck. I decided then that medicine was more important and followed through.

Here we are now, 2 months in and I am trying to remember why i want to do this. I wake up every morning with a sense of dread, I miss my old life (which by the way was 80 hr work weeks so I’m not unaware of hard work) - but i was in control and it seems now that it was a smooth simple life. I look at my kids and I have a sense of guilt for what I am about to put them through for the next 7 years. My wife is a saint and has always encouraged me to follow my heart. But I keep asking myself now...why am I doing this to myself and to everyone. I keep thinking that if I put this much efffort In something else for the next 7 years, I would save my myself and my family a lot of heartache, both emotional and financial. I am also extremely angry at myself because I knew all this prior to matriculating, none of this is a surprise and I keep on telling myself to stop thinking so much and be positive but the thoughts don’t go away. What makes this particularly difficult is my boss for who I still do a couple of hours of work on the weekends mentioned that my position is still open and I could go back should I want in the next few weeks. The time limit to this is also adding a sense of pressure to my decision. Sorry for the wall of text, but I guess I’m trying to figure out if anybody has been through a similar situation here. What did you do? Are these just normal thoughts that eventually disappear?

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[GreenDuck12]

What do you want to do for the next 30 years for employment - what you were doing before, being a doctor, or something else?

I’m 30 and also in my first year. There are definitely aspects of my life before being a full-time student that I miss and financial concerns that I have. But the work that I want to do for the next 30 years is as a physician so that keeps me going. That and I know that being a doctor is nothing like the preclinical phase of medical education.

 

[Userhelpneeded]

My biggest fear is that I am slowly losing sight of why I wanted to be a physician. This is what scares me since I have worked incredibly hard to get to medical school and frankly just disappointed at myself for feeling like I am.

 

[GreenDuck12]

My biggest fear is that I am slowly losing sight of why I wanted to be a physician. This is what scares me since I have worked incredibly hard to get to medical school and frankly just disappointed at myself for feeling like I am.

Are you doing any in person activities or is it all remote?

 

[Userhelpneeded]

It’s a hybrid for now

 

[GreenDuck12]

Do you have access to any upper class mentors or mentors who are attendings? That has helped me a bit as the first few weeks have been a hard transition due to the amount of material etc.

 

[Userhelpneeded]

I do have upper class people I talk to but none are nontrads with kids or a previous career like myself so while they can relate to the material, I don’t think they would relate to the other aspects.

 

[LunaOri]

Everyone with any self-awareness gets scared during the first few weeks. You've heard of imposter syndrome, right? In making such a huge life change, and with the end goal so far in the future, it's natural to worry that you've made a huge mistake, and to think about retreating to the familiar life you had before. Do you think you will be happier 10 years from now as an attending physician, or if you resume your former career? Remember, you were working 80 hour weeks, so you didn't have much family time in that job, either. The 80 hour work weeks come to an end after residency (if you want them to). Would you be working 80 hours if you went back to your previous job, or could you cut those hours in half?
As someone who was a non-trad, I was scared to death for the first couple of months (Holy crap! What have I done to myself?!) but I am so happy that I continued. I have never regretted choosing a career in medicine; every day, I feel like I am doing something worthwhile.

 

[Goro]

Well, never thought I’d find myself in this position but here goes.

Mid 30s male with a family(stay at home spouse and kids). I’m coming from another professional career and worked for about a decade and did reasonably well in my position. Six figure salary and built a networth of about 750 k prior to matriculating this year - I think this is important to mention as it holds weight in the decision.

A bit of a background on medicine - it was always something I have wanted to do and spent the better part of the last decade preparing for it. I fell into my previous career by chance and so medicine was always the goal. I worked extra hard to build myself financially so that my family will be okay through this journey of medical education and training. I got accepted to a school up north and a few months after that I started getting cold feet but chocked it up to a natural feeling that one would get to let go of a good paycheck. I decided then that medicine was more important and followed through.

Here we are now, 2 months in and I am trying to remember why i want to do this. I wake up every morning with a sense of dread, I miss my old life (which by the way was 80 hr work weeks so I’m not unaware of hard work) - but i was in control and it seems now that it was a smooth simple life. I look at my kids and I have a sense of guilt for what I am about to put them through for the next 7 years. My wife is a saint and has always encouraged me to follow my heart. But I keep asking myself now...why am I doing this to myself and to everyone. I keep thinking that if I put this much efffort In something else for the next 7 years, I would save my myself and my family a lot of heartache, both emotional and financial. I am also extremely angry at myself because I knew all this prior to matriculating, none of this is a surprise and I keep on telling myself to stop thinking so much and be positive but the thoughts don’t go away. What makes this particularly difficult is my boss for who I still do a couple of hours of work on the weekends mentioned that my position is still open and I could go back should I want in the next few weeks. The time limit to this is also adding a sense of pressure to my decision. Sorry for the wall of text, but I guess I’m trying to figure out if anybody has been through a similar situation here. What did you do? Are these just normal thoughts that eventually disappear?

EDIT: I didn't noticed that you had been accepted!

All new endeavors are fraught with anxiety. What you're feeling is common, and this too shall pass.

Don't look back.

And read this:

• Goro's Guide to Success in Medical School (2018 edition)

 

[deleted1005514]

I’m 40, a first year, married with kids. My husband left a lucrative career to take a pay cut so I could do this, and we moved our kids 1,000+ miles away from all their friends and family. By the time I finish med school and residency, all our kids will be in college, so me going to school doesn’t even really benefit them, except I can help them pay for grad school or finish college...maybe, if my debt load isn’t too high.

Thinking about all these things filled me with a tremendous amount of guilt in the beginning, especially through the growing pains of packing up and selling a house, moving and getting settled into a new place. But my husband reassured me (many times!) that we were making the right choice...the kids would benefit from seeing me be brave enough to follow my dreams, and they’re now in a better school, they have lots of friends, and they’re settled and happy.

Ultimately though I had to decide that it was ok for me to have a dream and/or goal that might inconvenience my family in some way, as long as it wasn’t harming them in any way. I’ve sacrificed and given up things over the years for their needs and wants, for my husband’s career, etc...so it’s ok for them to sacrifice a little time for me for a few years. That‘s a decision you have to make for yourself though.

Edited to add: my husband really struggled with the fact that he wasn’t working during his first year of law school. He felt like it was irresponsible for him to be in school and not working when he was married with a family. Could it be possible that this is some of your issue?

 

[mspeedwagon]

My story is found here: Life beyond dropping out. I dropped out of medical school after the first semester. There were several reasons but the main one was an undiagnosed medical condition. As far as income prior to medical school goes, I was in the $100k+ club and I had savings for med school tuition saved up. My net worth; however, would have been well under $750k at the time.

Most people on SDN are going to encourage you to continue. Hell, even I'm going to encourage you to stay until you are absolutely sure you want to quit. Don't give up till you are positive you want to. The first two years of med school are tough. For me, with medical issues, academic issues, roommate issues, car issues, I really missed my old life and I opted to leave medical school and I am very glad that I did. I got my underlying medical issue addressed, I returned to work in my field (for a different company) for more money and I applied a medical school type work ethic to my job.

So, the question now facing you is: At 50 years of age, do you want to work as a physician or do you want to have $3 million in the bank (projections based on investing in an S&P 500 index fund) and the potential to retire having worked at your old job for the next decade?

If you do decide to leave, after the first semester works well since you don't have that much medical school debt. Once you're into second year, from a debt perspective, you are likely too far in. Just know, if you leave, you'll likely battle a feeling of depression and failure for at least a year afterward if not longer. Most med school students aren't used to failure. Another option is to complete the semester or year and ask for a leave of absence. During that leave, you can decide which life you like better. This is technically how I left (leave of absence after first semester and I did not return).

Good luck!

Well, never thought I’d find myself in this position but here goes.

Mid 30s male with a family(stay at home spouse and kids). I’m coming from another professional career and worked for about a decade and did reasonably well in my position. Six figure salary and built a networth of about 750 k prior to matriculating this year - I think this is important to mention as it holds weight in the decision.

A bit of a background on medicine - it was always something I have wanted to do and spent the better part of the last decade preparing for it. I fell into my previous career by chance and so medicine was always the goal. I worked extra hard to build myself financially so that my family will be okay through this journey of medical education and training. I got accepted to a school up north and a few months after that I started getting cold feet but chocked it up to a natural feeling that one would get to let go of a good paycheck. I decided then that medicine was more important and followed through.

Here we are now, 2 months in and I am trying to remember why i want to do this. I wake up every morning with a sense of dread, I miss my old life (which by the way was 80 hr work weeks so I’m not unaware of hard work) - but i was in control and it seems now that it was a smooth simple life. I look at my kids and I have a sense of guilt for what I am about to put them through for the next 7 years. My wife is a saint and has always encouraged me to follow my heart. But I keep asking myself now...why am I doing this to myself and to everyone. I keep thinking that if I put this much efffort In something else for the next 7 years, I would save my myself and my family a lot of heartache, both emotional and financial. I am also extremely angry at myself because I knew all this prior to matriculating, none of this is a surprise and I keep on telling myself to stop thinking so much and be positive but the thoughts don’t go away. What makes this particularly difficult is my boss for who I still do a couple of hours of work on the weekends mentioned that my position is still open and I could go back should I want in the next few weeks. The time limit to this is also adding a sense of pressure to my decision. Sorry for the wall of text, but I guess I’m trying to figure out if anybody has been through a similar situation here. What did you do? Are these just normal thoughts that eventually disappear?

 

[Dave1980]

Well, never thought I’d find myself in this position but here goes.

Mid 30s male with a family(stay at home spouse and kids). I’m coming from another professional career and worked for about a decade and did reasonably well in my position. Six figure salary and built a networth of about 750 k prior to matriculating this year - I think this is important to mention as it holds weight in the decision.

A bit of a background on medicine - it was always something I have wanted to do and spent the better part of the last decade preparing for it. I fell into my previous career by chance and so medicine was always the goal. I worked extra hard to build myself financially so that my family will be okay through this journey of medical education and training. I got accepted to a school up north and a few months after that I started getting cold feet but chocked it up to a natural feeling that one would get to let go of a good paycheck. I decided then that medicine was more important and followed through.

Here we are now, 2 months in and I am trying to remember why i want to do this. I wake up every morning with a sense of dread, I miss my old life (which by the way was 80 hr work weeks so I’m not unaware of hard work) - but i was in control and it seems now that it was a smooth simple life. I look at my kids and I have a sense of guilt for what I am about to put them through for the next 7 years. My wife is a saint and has always encouraged me to follow my heart. But I keep asking myself now...why am I doing this to myself and to everyone. I keep thinking that if I put this much efffort In something else for the next 7 years, I would save my myself and my family a lot of heartache, both emotional and financial. I am also extremely angry at myself because I knew all this prior to matriculating, none of this is a surprise and I keep on telling myself to stop thinking so much and be positive but the thoughts don’t go away. What makes this particularly difficult is my boss for who I still do a couple of hours of work on the weekends mentioned that my position is still open and I could go back should I want in the next few weeks. The time limit to this is also adding a sense of pressure to my decision. Sorry for the wall of text, but I guess I’m trying to figure out if anybody has been through a similar situation here. What did you do? Are these just normal thoughts that eventually disappear?

Seems like financially you should drop out. If you want to be a physician and make all of the sacrifices you should stay in school. Sounds like a tough spot to be in.

 

[GreenDuck12]

So, the question now facing you is: At 50 years of age, do you want to work as a physician or do you want to have $3 million in the bank and the potential to retire having worked at your old job for the next decade?

Given the OP’s current financial situation, it is likely the OP would end up near the 3 million mark around age 50 without saving another dollar simply due to compounding interest with a moderate allocation of equities. That being said I think you raise a good point that needs to be considered: finances and the type of work one wants to do. If the OP left medical school they would lose a nominal amount of tuition but would be able to continue in his/her/their career, or find a new career. I think it’s safe to say the OP will be in a strong financial position regardless of whether or not they continue with medicine.

 

[theonlytycrane]

12/10 drop out now and get your old life back. or throw it all away and put yourself and your family through stress cAuSe yOu WaNt tO heLp pEoPlE hEhE

 

[Osminog]

M2. I’m also a non-traditional career-changer, albeit still in my late 20s and without a spouse and kids.

I know it’s easier said than done, but don’t let your past investments (financial, emotional, time-related, etc.) influence your decision; those are sunk costs and have no bearing on future outcomes. Focus on what’s ahead of you. As the cliché goes, you only get to live one life; there are no do-overs. What do you value most in a career? What are your priories? When all is said and done and you’re sitting on a worn-out sofa at a retirement home wondering where all the time went, what are the sorts of memories that would give you a sense of pride and satisfaction? What legacy do you want to leave for your community and for your family?

Perhaps seek out a shadowing experience at a nearby hospital or clinic. It might be tough to find such an experience with the COVID-19 situation going on, but if you were able to find one, it would give you another chance to see exactly what you’re working toward and to consider whether it’s a career that’s actually worth all the education, training, financial opportunity costs, etc.

 

[mspeedwagon]

I completely agree with you. I made a few assumptions.
- That $750k will dwindle down to $450k to pay medical school tuition and living expenses over the course of four years.
- Given this the above, at least $300k would be maintained in cash and not invested in the market.
- As such, that $300k will have lost four years of potential growth in this time period making it harder to get to $3 million by 50.
- That the only thing that the OP would in invest in is an S&P 500 index fund getting average market returns.
- That becoming a physician, would lead to an income of $300k in 7 yrs vs. an immediate income of $100k now.
- That the $100k salary would not really grow if the OP worked their former job (of course, it most likely would).

All-in-all, I think it comes down to one question:
Retire at 50 working the previous job or work as a physician at 50 would the prospect to retire with the same amount of money some years later.

I would have answered with the latter a few years ago but, as I've gotten older and experienced health issues, I realize that I would like to work 20ish hrs per week and enjoy life and that is not the lifestyle of most physicians I know. I really would like a job where I can work when I want to and not work when I do not want to (I'm still working on that part of the equation). My parents are also older now and it's unlikely they'll be around much longer too so I am glad I have the flexibility to go and see them. Family will always be far more important to me than medicine ever would have. And, for better or worse, it is likely I will marry a physician. Looking from the outside, her lifestyle really sucks. Granted, she went into trauma surgery. It seems that she gets paged into the hospital to cover on all her "days off." She says, all the time now, that she really wishes that she went into dermatology. I've told her it's not too late and I'd support her financially if she wants to do another residency (granted, I don't actually know how feasible this actually is).

Given the OP’s current financial situation, it is likely the OP would end up near the 3 million mark around age 50 without saving another dollar simply due to compounding interest with a moderate allocation of equities. That being said I think you raise a good point that needs to be considered: finances and the type of work one wants to do. If the OP left medical school they would lose a nominal amount of tuition but would be able to continue in his/her/their career, or find a new career. I think it’s safe to say the OP will be in a strong financial position regardless of whether or not they continue with medicine.

 

[Osteosaur]

I hated the first two years of medical school. Even learning from the comfort of my own home, even with great professors, it was still awful compared to actually working. I am enjoying third year a lot more.

But I am not in your shoes. You left a pretty good life and you have a way back in.

For most of us medical school IS a way to the life you had. I wish I had a better answer. What were you looking for? What was your old life missing?

 

[Medisaint]

Happy to give you my 2 cents, stranger to stranger.

My entire adult life has been about medicine. In college, I studied with the goal of using my liberal arts education as a way to match into medicine. I was surrounded by so many opportunities but never pursued (or even seriously looked into) alternative careers. I was stupid. Sometime around 2nd year of college doors started clanging shut and by the time I finished my first year of med school, it was just a hallway of closed doors leading deeper into medicine. Like many others, I followed that path.

I am grateful for my life now but I sometimes wonder what things would have been like if I had been more open minded earlier on. Could I have been happier doing something else? Was medicine worth my 20's? Would my family be better off if I had a different career? I'll never know because I was too scared and stubborn to peek into other rooms. I can't even imagine myself being a lawyer, professor or working in real estate. In some respects, that tunnel vision has been a necessary coping device. It helped me justify incurring ridiculous student debt, staying chronically fatigued for a decade, and getting underpaid per hour as a resident/fellow. Even now, those blinders allow me to work the long hours of my current job knowing that there really isn't/wasn't another option. Again, I enjoy my life but I'm also realistic.

This is not your life though. In your case, not only do you have those other life experiences but you managed to find success in them. Unless you've been supremely unhappy up until now, I don't know why you'd want to walk away from what you have just to start medical school. If you CAN be happy without medicine then don't go into medicine. Medicine isn't like other pathways where you can dabble, take breaks or easily quit, it will consume a decade of your life and then whatever else you're willing to give it.

I think if you're already having some misgivings you should seriously interrogate you motives for pursuing medicine. Make sure this isn't about the vanity of an "M.D.", a bucket list item, or based on an ill-informed, idealistic delusion about what medicine really is. Make sure you can't scratch whatever itch you have with volunteering, doing EMT/paramedic on the side, or working in healthcare as a non-MD. That's my advice.

That, and regardless of your choice, never ever take time with a loving spouse and kids for granted.

 

[mspeedwagon]

This may be one of the best responses on SDN I have read over the years. Thank you for sharing. I should note that the OP is in his first semester of medical school already which may or may not impact your advice.

Happy to give you my 2 cents, stranger to stranger.

My entire adult life has been about medicine. In college, I studied with the goal of using my liberal arts education as a way to match into medicine. I was surrounded by so many opportunities but never pursued (or even seriously looked into) alternative careers. I was stupid. Sometime around 2nd year of college doors started clanging shut and by the time I finished my first year of med school, it was just a hallway of closed doors leading deeper into medicine. Like many others, I followed that path.

I am grateful for my life now but I sometimes wonder what things would have been like if I had been more open minded earlier on. Could I have been happier doing something else? Was medicine worth my 20's? Would my family be better off if I had a different career? I'll never know because I was too scared and stubborn to peek into other rooms. I can't even imagine myself being a lawyer, professor or working in real estate. In some respects, that tunnel vision has been a necessary coping device. It helped me justify incurring ridiculous student debt, staying chronically fatigued for a decade, and getting underpaid per hour as a resident/fellow. Even now, those blinders allow me to work the long hours of my current job knowing that there really isn't/wasn't another option. Again, I enjoy my life but I'm also realistic.

This is not your life though. In your case, not only do you have those other life experiences but you managed to find success in them. Unless you've been supremely unhappy up until now, I don't know why you'd want to walk away from what you have just to start medical school. If you CAN be happy without medicine then don't go into medicine. Medicine isn't like other pathways where you can dabble, take breaks or easily quit, it will consume a decade of your life and then whatever else you're willing to give it.

I think if you're already having some misgivings you should seriously interrogate you motives for pursuing medicine. Make sure this isn't about the vanity of an "M.D.", a bucket list item, or based on an ill-informed, idealistic delusion about what medicine really is. Make sure you can't scratch whatever itch you have with volunteering, doing EMT/paramedic on the side, or working in healthcare as a non-MD. That's my advice.

That, and regardless of your choice, never ever take time with a loving spouse and kids for granted.

 

[curbsideconsult]

but i was in control and it seems now that it was a smooth simple life

Your sense of control will not get better over the next 7+ years. Preclinical courses are more or less planned out for you and so are your clinical rotations. You do get to give your input but ultimately the schedules are made by administrators to fit their needs and not yours. Going through the Match arguably takes away even more control. Residency? Probably even less control. You need to make it home for dinner because your in-laws are in town and it's Pop-pop's 75th birthday? Too bad, you have two late admissions and no one else is around but you to do them. You need to make it home by 7:30am during your week of night float? Too bad, you have three codes back to back that came at 6:00am and they all need transfer orders to the ICU or out to another facility and the resident who came in to relieve you is dealing with another emergency.

I could go back should I want in the next few weeks.

Ask your boss if they'll keep your job open for at least the rest of the semester. While I don't always agree with the "tough it out" mentality, in this case, I think 2 months is too short of a time to know whether or not you really want to quit medicine before you've actually started.

Ditto to everything @Medisaint said.

 

[Medisaint]

This may be one of the best responses on SDN I have read over the years. Thank you for sharing. I should note that the OP is in his first semester of medical school already which may or may not impact your advice.

Thank you for your kind words. My advice remains exactly the same. It's not too late to walk away but it becomes exponentially harder the longer he stays in med school.

Every pre-med/med student reaches a critical point where medicine becomes "too big to fail" in their life. It's a calculation based on financial obligations, career prospects and personal identity. I reached that point after 1st year. After that, it would have taken an act of god to get me to quit. That mentality will drive a person forward but can also warp their perspective and priorities.

The OP is financially independent but is not immune to this effect. Once he sinks 250G in tuition and loses his standing offer to return to his old job, how easy is it going to be to just walk away? Psychologically it's a lot harder to withdrawal after 3 years than 1 semester. Nobody wants to be a quitter. Then there's what happens if he doesn't match to a residency. How much time will he sink in reapplying? Feel free to read my earlier thread to learn how fun that can be.

I really think it boils down to how badly the OP needs to be a doctor and what he's willing to risk sacrificing. In my opinion, the OP has already beaten the game. Why replay it?

 

[operaman]

OP sorry to hear you’re in this situation. It’s been a rather common one in my experience. We lost a couple non trad classmates early in MS1, both successful professionals in other fields With young children who started realizing the day to day reality of what they were facing. The time required is intense and both said it hit them like a brick that their kids would be in high school before they had real free time and control of their lives again.

Honestly I absolutely love what I do and am thankful that I get to do this stuff, but it’s still a job and much of my joy in life comes from outside the hospital. If you’ve got a semi fulfilling career that provides a good living and a secure future, it might be the best move to pull the ripcord. Yes first year sucks and is nothing like medicine...except in the time required. If anything the time demands increase as the years go on.

I haven’t kept in touch with the guys from MS1 but the last I hear a few years ago they were very happy with their choices.

 

[Userhelpneeded]

Thank you for your kind words. My advice remains exactly the same. It's not too late to walk away but it becomes exponentially harder the longer he stays in med school.

Every pre-med/med student reaches a critical point where medicine becomes "too big to fail" in their life. It's a calculation based on financial obligations, career prospects and personal identity. I reached that point after 1st year. After that, it would have taken an act of god to get me to quit. That mentality will drive a person forward but can also warp their perspective and priorities.

The OP is financially independent but is not immune to this effect. Once he sinks 250G in tuition and loses his standing offer to return to his old job, how easy is it going to be to just walk away? Psychologically it's a lot harder to withdrawal after 3 years than 1 semester. Nobody wants to be a quitter. Then there's what happens if he doesn't match to a residency. How much time will he sink in reapplying? Feel free to read my earlier thread to learn how fun that can be.

I really think it boils down to how badly the OP needs to be a doctor and what he's willing to risk sacrificing. In my opinion, the OP has already beaten the game. Why replay it?

I am beginning to realize that the problem is that I have always defined my self worth and success as “becoming a physician”. What is difficult now is that I am wondering how else I would continue on a different path. In my previous career, I was making good money and is a respectable profession, but I somewhat regarded it as not “my ultimate potential”.

 

[Medisaint]

I am beginning to realize that the problem is that I have always defined my self worth and success as “becoming a physician”. What is difficult now is that I am wondering how else I would continue on a different path. In my previous career, I was making good money and is a respectable profession, but I somewhat regarded it as not “my ultimate potential”.

That’s a tough one that requires serious soul searching.

I struggled with this in my early 20's. If I’m being honest, a lot of the glow of med school for me came from the fact that it was the hardest and most prestigious thing to get into. If I became an MD there could be no doubt in my mind or anyone else’s that I had achieved something worthwhile with my life. But looking back, this mindset was rooted in insecurity and lazy introspection. It was also dangerous because it sent me down the well-worn, slippery slope of using external sources of validation to determine self-worth.

In your 30 years you have probably seen this type of mindset play out in other contexts. Needless to say, in medicine it never ends and can actually get worse after becoming an MD. There’s always a hierarchy of “potential” to chase—the stage of training, the competitiveness of specialty/sub-specialty, the prestige of the program, individual competency compared to peers, salary or clout within one's organization, number/impact factor of publications, extra degrees (MPH/PhD), etc can all be external determinates of self-worth among physicians. Only now, the audience you’d be trying to prove something to would be other doctors, many of whom playing the same game. It took several key failures in my adult life to finally recognize how silly this way of thinking is.

I think you also realize there is never just one path. I mean objectively speaking, there are many accomplished/fulfilled individuals outside of medicine just as there are many ways to suck as a doctor. I can’t even count how many bonehead doctors I’ve encountered who fail to meet even the most basic expectations of a physician.

That said, I would be preaching something I didn’t practice if I suggested that you or anyone should let go of their medical aspirations. I don’t know how much of my story resonates with you but it may be the case that you need to explore this issue further before you can make a decision. Fortunately, the good decisions you made in your 20’s have given you the ability to sample the grass on both sides of the fence. With financial stability you don’t have to sell your soul to a lender to pay for tuition, you have the luxury of treating your first year of medical school like an expensive survey course if you have to. You have job skills outside of medicine giving you options if medicine isn't for you. You have family support and a spouse who (not insignificantly) thought you were marriage material even without the MD. And maybe most importantly, you're going into this with a 30 year old’s brain rather than a 22 year old’s.

Whatever direction you go in medicine, trust your life experiences and adult assessment of the facts. Recognize that misgivings can be normal as a first semester medical student but don’t write them off if they persist. Talk to residents and attendings to make sure you have a realistic idea of what a doctor’s life is and isn't at every level of training. I would be very mindful of your escalating commitment to this route and the doors that are closing as a result. Lastly, I'd be wary of self-deception in its many forms. (Pro-tip) This last point can be attenuated through good communication with your spouse and making sure they have an equal say in these large decisions.

Final thought--unless you made your fortune through a Ponzi-scheme or the lottery, your success outside of medicine speaks to meta-skills that are likely applicable to whatever field you go into. I’m sure you and your family will be fine with whatever you ultimately decide.

 

[El-Rami]

Just stay in. Dropping out is not worth it, and you will deeply regret it. Having a family is a reason to stay in not drop out. Someone posted on here that you can make a base salary of about $250,000/year in general internal medicine, and with other sources of compensation (bonus, taking extra shifts, moonlighting, etc.) you can make make $400,000/year and still have nights, weekends, and holidays off. This was an attending physician who was open about remuneration.

Now, wouldn't 400k/year be really useful in order to make sure that your family's needs are taken care of?

Virtually every other profession in existence suffers from oversaturation or will suffer from oversaturation in the next 5 years. Medicine does not have this problem. You can easily get a job as a primary care doctor. You aren't likely to be suddenly furloughed. You can weather recessions. Your expertise will always be valuable, unless you work for the Trump administration.

PA? Saturated, competes with NPs who are preferred because NPs don't require supervision. Pharmacy? Dead profession. Software engineering? Yeah, that's becoming saturated too. Don't buy into the hype of coding bootcamps and easily getting a 100k/year job. Law? Maybe you can become a lawyer if you get a 99th percentile LSAT and go to a top 5 school, maybe you will have good job prospects then. Otherwise, you will be unemployed or working a low-paying job at a no-name firm. Optometry, nursing, any other healthcare profession? Saturated. PhD? Saturated.

Don't drop out. Do everything you can do in order to stay in.

 

[deleted367183]

A med school friend of mine is an attorney in his early 40s. He quit after first year to spend more time with his family. He didn't get his old job back, but he had no trouble finding another one.

 

[emergentmd]

EM doc here 20 yrs into my Career. At yr 3 as an Attending, I seriously pondered going back to residency to do Rad b/c it was my other preferred residency. At that time, Married no kids but actively wanting kids. I chose to stay in EM.

How does this pertain to you? You can't put a price on lost time, experience, memories. Fast forward 6 yrs from my choice and 3 kids. I could not imagine putting my family and 3 kids through this. Sacrifice for 4 more yrs of residency <<<<< 7-10 yrs of residency.

I assume your kids are still young and your wife is a saint. But 7-10 yrs of missing out on the most imp years of their lives and the detachment your "saintly" wife will inevitable have just to cope with being a "single" parent mom to me doesn't seem worth it. From your post, I feel that this is very important. If you have daily regrets at missing out on activities, nightly hugs, nightly small talk with the kids, nightly fluff conversation with your wife is important, then 4 yrs of med school will be miserable.

As a unmarried person in my 20's, being a doc was my marriage and my kids. Nothing was more imp. Fast forward 10 yrs with young kids and I would never go back to med school esp with a good job. Building relationships/trusts with kids require constant time, hugs, & small talk.

Parents wonder why their kids are not close to them. Wonder why kids don't visit or call. Wonder why they have a distant relationship. Its not what you buy. Its not what you can provide. Its not your title. Its the thousands of time you ate dinner with them, picked them up from school, nightly small talk, working on homework, constant hugs.

My kids are all between 8-12. I still get constant hugs from nowhere, "I love you" out of the blue, jumping on my lap to watch TV. This doesn't happen if I was in med school/residency during these most important years. I know many feel that they can be good parents while going through med school but there is an inevitable sacrifice and only you can answer this question for yourself.

 

[medaspire1]

happy to read such different perspectives. .. as a dino non-trad (older one) they give me good color on what to expect as I do my pre-reqs and go down this path .Most of the info for older non-trads are (n=1) success stories and mean well but also good to see the other side ..

my $0.02 do what you think will make u happy when u look from your retirement home ( as someone pointed out earlier) any field you go you will always have a hierarchy and politics and peer pressure to deal with .

 

[Damson]

accounting for your age, family, and dreams, think about what you want more and if you can balance all of them

if not, you're gonna have to make a sacrifice. again, consider what you want more. what's most important to you?

even if you do drop out, the achievement of getting into a medical school is yours forever.

 

[Osteosaur]

In your 30 years you have probably seen this type of mindset play out in other contexts. Needless to say, in medicine it never ends and can actually get worse after becoming an MD. There’s always a hierarchy of “potential” to chase—the stage of training, the competitiveness of specialty/sub-specialty, the prestige of the program, individual competency compared to peers, salary or clout within one's organization, number/impact factor of publications, extra degrees (MPH/PhD), etc can all be external determinates of self-worth among physicians. Only now, the audience you’d be trying to prove something to would be other doctors, many of whom playing the same game. It took several key failures in my adult life to finally recognize how silly this way of thinking is.

This is a really good point. Honestly, as a student I've been thinking of going into FM lately as I just like the work and because the lifestyle seems nice. I sometimes think, 'But I got a 230 on step 1! I can do something more prestigious/stimulating/whatever!" Its been really hard for me to shake that feeling that I could 'could' be doing more, even if I'd rather not be stressing out over research and shelfs right now and don't want to make a big salary but have no time to spend it...

 

[deleted1005514]

This is a really good point. Honestly, as a student I've been thinking of going into FM lately as I just like the work and because the lifestyle seems nice. I sometimes think, 'But I got a 230 on step 1! I can do something more prestigious/stimulating/whatever!" Its been really hard for me to shake that feeling that I could 'could' be doing more, even if I'd rather not be stressing out over research and shelfs right now and don't want to make a big salary but have no time to spend it...

One of our FM faculty was talking about a student in our 3rd year class who got the highest COMLEX and STEP scores of his class, and is planning to go FM. Just so you know, you’re not the only one facing this choice. FM doesn’t equal “couldn’t match anywhere else”, no matter what SDN would have you believe.

 

[emergentmd]

When I did medical school interviews 30 yrs ago, I had a bunch of questions and only remember 1 question that is burned in my mind.

"Do you want to be the best doctor or best Husband/Father". I gave the same generic soft answer, "I want to be both". He said, choose one b/c you will not be able to be the best at both. That is one of the best advice I have gotten.

You have to sacrifice something when you take a time consuming/difficult endeavor. Be it opening up a business, moving away from the family for work, going to medical school.

 

[Subdivisions Rush]

Depending on your specialty, one may have time with the family. A friend of mine who became a psychiatrist always has time; his situation has been this way for decades. All patients got referred to the suicide and crisis center after hours. If it was an emergency, his patients were referred to an emergency room.

Nowadays, many primary care docs don't go to the hospital and are not available after hours. And they can do this because they rely on hospitalists for their hospitalized patients and urgent care clinics that see patients after hours.

 

[DocJanItor]

I'm an M4 with a wife and kids. Based on your post it seems like what you wanted to do was prove to yourself (or others?) that you could become a doctor if you wanted to. And since med schools graduate 95%+ of their matriculants within 5 years, it's pretty likely that you could accomplish that. But now you truly see the day to day sacrifice rather than it being an esoteric, far off idea. But your life increasingly will be dictated by your clinical schedule as you get into M3 and then residency. That doesn't sound like your idea of fun.

On a more personal level, I had a dad who had his own business with long hours and who many times chose the job over his family. It wasn't until after he was terminally ill did he explain to me just how much he loved doing that job. He also had a deep responsibility to his customers and his employees. While he was a fantastic provider and I'm very happy that he enjoyed his work, there were many times that he missed family functions or we just didn't go because he couldn't. Although I can certainly rationalize this as an adult, as a child I was much more bitter about him not being able (or willing) to be around more.

I can say that as my kids are getting older it's becoming increasingly difficult to pull myself away from them to study at home. When I'm at work it's different because it's more out of sight/out of mind. But I make sure to do things with them whenever I can because I want them to know (now or eventually) that I chose them as much as possible.

It's not possible to do all the things. Sacrifices have to be made. While I'm certainly going to miss my share of my kids lives, I also have a responsibility to them to give them an example of what it means to work hard and to provide for them. Since it sounds like you can do that without becoming a doctor, I'd suggest you do that.

 

[LunaOri]

I think some of the responders missed the part where the OP said that his previous job required him to work 80 hours a week. Unless he can cut those hours in half, returning to that job wouldn't mean spending more time with his family.

 

[emergencydancing]

When I started my premed journey and told people about switch careers from a lucrative one, people told me to really, really make sure it's something I want to do. I see it here often as well for these non-trad posts, a lot of people question career changers motivations.

And after being around here for a while, I can see why. Just so many posts of people switching careers only to switch back. Now I've joined the camp of telling people to really consider what they're doing before switching careers to medicine because of posts like these. You also have to understand that the more people leave medical school to return to their old jobs makes it harder for other non-trads to get into medical school because the schools will look at their classes and see the growing list of non-trads who drop out.

 

[DocJanItor]

I think some of the responders missed the part where the OP said that his previous job required him to work 80 hours a week. Unless he can cut those hours in half, returning to that job wouldn't mean spending more time with his family.

Making good money at 80 hours a week > paying money at 80 hours a week for 4 years followed by at least 4 years of making 60k at 80+ hours a week. He will have almost zero control of his schedule for about a decade if he continues in medicine. Most jobs have more flexibility than medicine and he can probably choose to work less.

 

[emergentmd]

When I finished college, I had a lucrative job offer vs going to med school. Lucrative = One Engineering job spot a yr offered to my state college and everyone applied. I am sure most were shocked I didn't take it. I still wonder if I would be better off taking that job.

It was a no brainer going to med school at the time without any responsibility and never having any $$$.

Fast forward 10 yrs and I would never choose to go to med school if I had a lucrative job. Easy to live like a poor college student into being a poor med student. It is extremely difficult to go from a lucrative job/lifestyle to being a poor med student + residency for 7-10 yrs. I have the utmost respect for anyone able to do that b/c the sacrifice is immeasurable.

 

[Userhelpneeded]

When I finished college, I had a lucrative job offer vs going to med school. Lucrative = One Engineering job spot a yr offered to my state college and everyone applied. I am sure most were shocked I didn't take it. I still wonder if I would be better off taking that job.

It was a no brainer going to med school at the time without any responsibility and never having any $$$.

Fast forward 10 yrs and I would never choose to go to med school if I had a lucrative job. Easy to live like a poor college student into being a poor med student. It is extremely difficult to go from a lucrative job/lifestyle to being a poor med student + residency for 7-10 yrs. I have the utmost respect for anyone able to do that b/c the sacrifice is immeasurable.

Agreed, and I feel like I love this stuff. The things I am learning is fascinating. I think given enough time and no choice to go back to my old job, with enough money sunk into medicine - I would probably just look at the positive and move on with my medical school training. But...at this time, even though this stuff is fascinating, I look at my kids and can’t help but feel enormous guilt that I am taking away a very very nice life away from them and the next time that I would be able to provide would be when they are in college. Tough choice here and time is ticking !

 

[deleted1005514]

Agreed, and I feel like I love this stuff. The things I am learning is fascinating. I think given enough time and no choice to go back to my old job, with enough money sunk into medicine - I would probably just look at the positive and move on with my medical school training. But...at this time, even though this stuff is fascinating, I look at my kids and can’t help but feel enormous guilt that I am taking away a very very nice life away from them and the next time that I would be able to provide would be when they are in college. Tough choice here and time is ticking !

What YOU want to do/ be doing for the next 20+ years is important too...I’m not trying to sway you one way or another, but as a parent I can get sucked into the mindset that I have to sacrifice everything for my kids to be happy/have a very, very nice life, when sometimes the truth is that they would be just as happy with a nice life and I could be happy too.

FWIW, we were making 3x the salary we are now when I made the decision to pursue this fully. Believe it or not, we’re actually all happier where we are now, even making less money. The kids have zero idea how much we make, they’re not starving or suffering in any way, and my husband’s new job is way less stress. I’m aware that it doesn’t work out this well for everyone, but for us/me it has, and I’m eternally grateful.

I don’t want you to feel guilty, but I do t want you to end up resentful either.

 

[Userhelpneeded]

What YOU want to do/ be doing for the next 20+ years is important too...I’m not trying to sway you one way or another, but as a parent I can get sucked into the mindset that I have to sacrifice everything for my kids to be happy/have a very, very nice life, when sometimes the truth is that they would be just as happy with a nice life and I could be happy too.

FWIW, we were making 3x the salary we are now when I made the decision to pursue this fully. Believe it or not, we’re actually all happier where we are now, even making less money. The kids have zero idea how much we make, they’re not starving or suffering in any way, and my husband’s new job is way less stress. I’m aware that it doesn’t work out this well for everyone, but for us/me it has, and I’m eternally grateful.

I don’t want you to feel guilty, but I do t want you to end up resentful either.

That’s a good way to look at it. And that’s how I got here. I rationalized my decision to pursue medicine by telling myself that I could have done it earlier but I decided to work longer and set up my family financially so they will not suffer in that aspect. For my wife, her only condition was that she remains a homemaker since she values raising our children herself rather than someone else. I always had some guilt and some doubt that while financially my kids will be ok, they will have some sacrifice in terms of time with their father. I told myself that It is now time for me to do something for myself. However, now that I am here, I did not anticipate that the guilt would be so overwhelming. Do you feel like your outlook would be different if you would be spending literally half and possibly more of your entire life savings into fulfilling your passion? And along with that, you children and spouse would be going through something that could be potentially avoidable?

 

[deleted1005514]

That’s a good way to look at it. And that’s how I got here. I rationalized my decision to pursue medicine by telling myself that I could have done it earlier but I decided to work longer and set up my family financially so they will not suffer in that aspect. For my wife, her only condition was that she remains a homemaker since she values raising our children herself rather than someone else. I always had some guilt and some doubt that while financially my kids will be ok, they will have some sacrifice in terms of time with their father. I told myself that It is now time for me to do something for myself. However, now that I am here, I did not anticipate that the guilt would be so overwhelming. Do you feel like your outlook would be different if you would be spending literally half and possibly more of your entire life savings into fulfilling your passion? And along with that, you children and spouse would be going through something that could be potentially avoidable?

Can I PM you my reply to these questions?

 

[Userhelpneeded]

Can I PM you my reply to these questions?

Sure

 

[Eye-eye]

Just a few thoughts that have come up reading others' posts:

1) M1-M2 are kind of supposed to suck. I got really depressed, needed SSRIs, my marriage got a bit rocky. But then M3 hit, and while there were some new stressors, I was so much happier, because I was actually doing what I came into med school to do. Marriage improved, off SSRIs, and not in the least depressed now as an M4. Don't base a decision about your future on M1-M2. Your best bet is to find some time to get in the hospital in fields you're interested in, and see if you still want to live that life or not.

2) Your stress, feeling of loss of control, etc. will be tightly linked to your field and practice setting later on. Want to be a hospitalist? Prepare for stress, loss of autonomy, too many hours, and bureaucratic bull****. Want to be a private practice ophthalmologist? Prepare for 40-hour weeks, twice the pay of our hospitalist friend above, and a lot of ability to determine your work week as a partner. Now I'm not saying do ophtho over IM - you really should pick what you love, because if you don't, that's a recipe for burnout. But you should compare apples to apples, i.e., what your life would likely look like as an attending in the fields you're most interested in versus what life is like in your old job.

3) People are talking a lot about the money. You'll be fine as a physician, so I personally don't think that's the best metric to use, but it should probably be a part of the thought process. But think about how much you actually spend to live your lifestyle, how much that means you need in retirement, and what your pay will look like in the profession and setting you choose. Academic peds in Manhattan is probably making < 1/10 a hardworking non-academic surgeon (in the right subspecialty) in the Midwest. Depending on your lifestyle, the field you want to go into, where you want to live and practice, etc, it could make much less sense to go medicine or much more sense. Again, just make sure to compare apples to apples.

Overall, just know that your life right now looks nothing like your life will as an attending, and hating what you're doing now shouldn't inherently discourage you from medicine.

 

[emergentmd]

There are no wrong choices and everyone makes decisions that bears consequences either way. The decision to go to med school in your situation has nothing to do with money, having your kids drive a corolla vs a BMW doesn't matter, having them in Lulu pants vs Costco doesn't matter.

What matters is the inevitable uncontrollable time away from your kids and the inevitable distance that this will create. It was much worse 25 yrs ago when i did residency with 120 hr wks/36 hr q 3 call. No way can you be a parent with the schedule I ran 25 yrs ago but residency is much less demanding.

But again, you have to weigh what is more important. Your dream vs inevitable emotional distance from your family/kids. Only you can answer this question. If you are waking up at 45 yrs old while missing many activities and the kids/wife being "OK" that you missed their activities, then you know the answer.

Good luck. A tough decision that I would not want to make. My younger self would go to med school and let the chips fall. Now that I have 3 kids, and the older me would never step back into med school knowing the sacrifice and give up a 100K job.

 

[El-Rami]

even if you do drop out, the achievement of getting into a medical school is yours forever.

Sadly, it doesn't count for much. If you leave, you will be viewed negatively (unlike someone who never could get into med school because their grades sucked). If you stay, you become a doctor.

There is no such thing as "I got into med school" as a thing to put on your resume. No one cares unless you finish.

If OP leaves med school, they will likely develop chronic health conditions resulting from the unique stressors that one faces in his position. The world is a cruel, unforgiving place.

I cannot think of a single career that has the same financial earning ability and job security that being a physician has. Literally everything else has issues with job saturation (thus a tough market), poor financial compensation, lack of job security, possible poor treatment as an employee, etc. Do you want to live paycheck-to-paycheck and worry about bills? How will that be good for your family in the long-term? If you get a doctor's salary, you will never worry about living paycheck-to-paycheck unless you really are bad with money. Lack of a living wage is a huge problem in society.

I have known people who got divorced while they were medical students, and honestly they seem happy enough that they stuck with it and finished rather than left because their partner couldn't put up with the sacrifices one makes as a student.

 

[Esquire]

Why do you feel med school is taking time away from family when you previously worked 80 hours a week? Doesn't make sense because med school preclinicals isn't close to the amount of hours of your old job. Most residency rotations outside of intern year or surgery aren't 80 hours a week. It sounds like existential angst that's normal when starting med school and throughout the journey.

It also sounds like you don't like giving up control. Submit to the process in this well-oiled machine, one foot in front of the other, and before you know it, you're a physician. Importantly, figure out your specialty and find one that fits your lifestyle and goals.

 

[Esquire]

even if you do drop out, the achievement of getting into a medical school is yours forever.

If you have large loans, those may be yours forever too.

 

[El-Rami]

If you have large loans, those may be yours forever too.

There's no "may." They will be. Some schools are fairly low in tuition, so OP might get out relatively unscathed, but if OP has a lot of loans already, then it would be impossible to service those loans without a doctor's salary. That's just how it works. You can pay 15% of income for 20 years and then have it forgiven, but you would still face a tax bomb.

Do you want to face the prospect of not being able to pay the IRS your tax bill in 20 years, OP?

There is literally no safety net for someone who does not complete a medical education. You either reapply to school (which has its own issues but is not necessarily impossible... but why put yourself through that?) or you find some other career that won't pay your student loans off. You would have the income based repayment schedule so you don't default on student loans, but you still have to pay the tax bill in 20 years. Imagine having like 100k in student loans forgiven and then being charged tax for that (100k + your yearly gross income taxed at a higher bracket).

If your spouse won't support you while in med school, find a new spouse.

 

[Subdivisions Rush]

I think some of the responders missed the part where the OP said that his previous job required him to work 80 hours a week. Unless he can cut those hours in half, returning to that job wouldn't mean spending more time with his family.

THIS!