Thoughts on HPSP?

[stairway2seven]

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hi all

I am strongly considering the HPSP scholarship but it's a big commitment and I'd really like to hear people's thoughts about it. It seems like a good fit for me due to my desire to serve our country and my personality. The money is obviously a major factor as well considering I am attending an expensive private school and will be paying solely with loans.

What have you all heard from residents/physicians/current med students about it? Do they like it? I heard the residency training is not as good, true or false? This is one of my biggest concerns as I've heard from multiple physicians that the training is not good.
Any specific differences between Army vs Navy vs Air Force that you know of?

Just for some context, I have no idea what specialty I want to do but have some interest in emergency. I find the idea of serving my country to be very worthwhile but honestly would not even consider this without the scholarship. Somewhat interested in academic medicine. Love the idea of deploying and practicing medicine elsewhere for a short time.

thanks for your help!

 

[907914]

hi all

I am strongly considering the HPSP scholarship but it's a big commitment and I'd really like to hear people's thoughts about it. It seems like a good fit for me due to my desire to serve our country and my personality. The money is obviously a major factor as well considering I am attending an expensive private school and will be paying solely with loans.

What have you all heard from residents/physicians/current med students about it? Do they like it? I heard the residency training is not as good, true or false? This is one of my biggest concerns as I've heard from multiple physicians that the training is not good.
Any specific differences between Army vs Navy vs Air Force that you know of?

Just for some context, I have no idea what specialty I want to do but have some interest in emergency. I find the idea of serving my country to be very worthwhile but honestly would not even consider this without the scholarship. Somewhat interested in academic medicine. Love the idea of deploying and practicing medicine elsewhere for a short time.

thanks for your help!

@Matthew9Thirtyfive

 

[libertyyne]

Doing any research at the end will show that it is not cheaper compared to taking out loans since you will be forgoeing years of income. If you want to serve our country do it for that reason, financially at best its a wash but more likely your total compensation will be less compared to your peers who took out loans, even after paying for the loans.

 

[NickNaylor]

There's a military medicine subforum - perhaps lurking there or posting your question there will get you more useful answers.

From folks that I've spoken to, their recommendation has been to consider the HPSP only if you're independently interested in serving in the military. If you have no interest in military advice, doing it just for the financial benefits is a bad idea as you will very likely end up unhappy.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Doing any research at the end will show that it is not cheaper compared to taking out loans since you will be forgoeing years of income. If you want to serve our country do it for that reason, financially at best its a wash but more likely your total compensation will be less compared to your peers who took out loans, even after paying for the loans.

This is actually incorrect. There is actually an extensive look out there published by @militaryPHYS I believe which basically shows that you come out even or slightly ahead at the end of your commitment. He also calculated it based on doing a residency, and so if you did HPSP and GMO your way out, you’ll probably come out ahead since the special pay for GMOs is $20k/year on top of O-3 pay and having no debt.

But I do agree that you shouldn’t do it for the money. Even though it can be a decent financial decision, imo it is not worth it just for the money. You should really want to serve for some reason other than that (eg, want to take care of the awesome people who go into harm’s way for us, you’ve wanted to serve our country, etc.), or you’ll likely just be miserable.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

hi all

I am strongly considering the HPSP scholarship but it's a big commitment and I'd really like to hear people's thoughts about it. It seems like a good fit for me due to my desire to serve our country and my personality. The money is obviously a major factor as well considering I am attending an expensive private school and will be paying solely with loans.

What have you all heard from residents/physicians/current med students about it? Do they like it? I heard the residency training is not as good, true or false? This is one of my biggest concerns as I've heard from multiple physicians that the training is not good.
Any specific differences between Army vs Navy vs Air Force that you know of?

Just for some context, I have no idea what specialty I want to do but have some interest in emergency. I find the idea of serving my country to be very worthwhile but honestly would not even consider this without the scholarship. Somewhat interested in academic medicine. Love the idea of deploying and practicing medicine elsewhere for a short time.

thanks for your help!

A lot of these questions you can google. But it ranges from people wishing they didn’t do it to people loving it and doing 20+ years. Just like pretty much everything.

Don’t do it for the money. The military has enough downsides that if the only upside for you is the money, you will likely regret your decision. We don’t need more docs counting down the days until they get out and regretting their decision because they wanted to be a civilian doc who occasionally gets to do high speed stuff when they want to.

If you want to live your life and occasionally get to deploy or play military, join the reserves.

I’m just starting medical school at USUHS but I have been in the military for 7 years. And I was enlisted, so I guarantee you any of the bad parts the docs complain about on this forum are minor compared to a lot of this stuff we have to deal with. But I still love the Navy and willingly re-enlisted just for the chance to go to med school. And now I’m taking on another 7 year commitment so I can stay in and be a Navy doc.

For me, the positives and benefits outweigh the negatives. But I also formed a tight bond with the folks I served with, and those people are who I want to take care of. So it doesn’t make sense for me to get out.

If you’re okay with being an officer and a doctor and not just a doctor for a while, and you really want to serve your country, then go for it. Fortunately for you, EM is a specialty that is not getting its numbers shrunk, so if you’re competitive for it you’ll have a good shot at getting it.

But if you don’t want a career honestly it probably makes more sense to do an intern year then GMO and out and go do residency as a civilian.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

And the differences between the branches are all over the mil med forum. GMO tours, battalion surgeon tours, base locations, deployment schedules, GME availability, etc.

 

[Medic741]

Hello I’m an Army student and can post some observations from what I’ve learned / observed from the DCC, BOLC courses and presentations by army GME.

EDIT: -In the Army BOLC/DCC training requirements can make your life hard during M1/2. Because of DCC had about a week off between M1/2, and with BOLC I had something like 10 days of dedicated before I needed to test and leave for training. So while my peers that I was compared against were having 4-6 weeks of dedicated time in order to compete I had to fit all that study in during the year which was pretty packed to begin with -- and that'll be just the beginning of the military making life hard for us. You just have to learn how to say 'Roger' and move on.

-docs will no longer be assigned directly to hospitals, they’ll instead be tasked directly to line units with the job to provide sick call / work in the hospitals. This may mean more deployments

-your specialty options will be more limited than they have been in the past. If you don’t end up wanting to do a wartime specialty it’s unclear if spots will be available or if they are how many there will be. Fewer spots may mean things become extremely competitive that normally aren’t

EDIT: With all the changes in military medicine one thing that's been emphasized to us is that what we've heard about milmed careers from older docs will not be the way things are for those joining now. As an example our BOLC class trained us on setting up tactical convoys, throwing grenades, moving to contact as part of an infantry unit, and dismounted / mounted ops. From what we received this reflects a broader doctrinal change that physicians have to be ok with being 'officer first' (at least when Army asks what your priorities are). Training is getting harder than it has been and the military expectations of physicians are being said to be getting higher. This could mean more time away from the clinic/hospital to do more military-oriented trainings.

Bottom line -- HPSP is a good choice if you want to be in the military otherwise don't do it for the money. The students that clearly chose HPSP for the cash were miserable to work with and really unhappy when the reality started sinking in. I loved it and despite the challenges am really looking forward to the military part of my medical career, but its definitely not for everyone.

On the plus side I don’t think I’ve been around a higher caliber of person than during our summer trainings. The people (on average) in military medicine are phenomenal individuals that I’m really looking forward to train and serve with. You also get to learn how to do things you never would otherwise, and Some of those are definitely type 2 fun

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Hello I’m an Army student and can post some observations from what I’ve learned / observed from the DCC, BOLC courses and presentations by army GME
-docs will no longer be assigned directly to hospitals, they’ll instead be tasked directly to line units with the job to provide sick call / work in the hospitals. This may mean more deployments

-your specialty options will be more limited than they have been in the past. If you don’t end up wanting to do a wartime specialty it’s unclear if spots will be available or if they are how many there will be. Fewer spots may mean things become extremely competitive that normally aren’t

On the plus side I don’t think I’ve been around a higher caliber of person than during our summer trainings. The people (on average) in military medicine are phenomenal individuals that I’m really looking forward to train and serve with. You also get to learn how to do things you never would otherwise, and Some of those are definitely type 2 fun

These are good points. In the Navy, the plan is to create medical training and readiness centers near each MTF that the physicians will be assigned to which will determine where they will best get the volume they need while also serving the Navy best, be it at the MTF or at a civilian partnership.

Specialty choices are getting smaller in the Navy too. Non-wartime specialties shrank in the latest GME notice, while things like GS and ortho grew. Others stayed the same (eg, EM). Fellowship opportunities are shifting around too. More spots for Pulm/cc and zero or one for everything else (except ID which got a couple spots).

So if having the ability to pick any specialty you might be interested in and practice that in the military is a priority, then mil med is not a smart choice now. That said the option to GMO and out into whatever specialty you want is always an option.

 

[PressPforPi]

I wouldn’t want to touch Milmed with a 10 ft pole with the way DHA is about to butcher manning, at least not as AD.

 

[7331poas]

How is specialty placement decided? Do the most competitive applicants get ortho, just in a smaller pool of applicants/spots?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

How is specialty placement decided? Do the most competitive applicants get ortho, just in a smaller pool of applicants/spots?

It's not assigned. You apply and put your preferences. But yes, generally if you are competitive for something in the civilian world, you will be pretty competitive for it in the military. But there are some specialties that are surprisingly competitive in the military just by virtue of there being very few spots available. Only good thing is in the military (in the Navy anyway) you can do a GMO and continue to work as a physician and then apply again, and you get points towards the match for doing fleet time. I've heard the Army doesn't view GMO tours that way, but they also do a lot fewer of them.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I wouldn’t want to touch Milmed with a 10 ft pole with the way DHA is about to butcher manning, at least not as AD.

Yeah, like I said, if having the ability to make sure you can do whatever specialty you want is important to you, mil med is probably not a great move right now. At least not until things stabilize and we know how it's going to look.

 

[pawprint]

Just finished my Navy Peds internship and am headed out to the fleet.

My thoughts: compared to my civilian friends, my lifestyle is significantly better as i have no debt and make a decent income (made about 35k/year as a med student, 80k with full benefits during internship, going up to 100k/year as I head out to gmo land). I agree that money shouldn’t be the main incentive for joining, but it is nice to never stress about debt or how to pay for things.

In regards to training, my attendings were WAY better teachers than the attendings at the civilian hospital we rotate at. At the navy hospital I also did more procedures and had way more autonomy than my civilians friends. I’ve had dozens of intubations and central line placements this year while many of my civilians friends have only done a handful of those things intern year. My civilian counterparts had larger patient volume but that doesn’t mean squat if you are just brushing over everyone to get the base work done on your large patient load and can’t take time to actually get involved with your patients and do basic procedures.

With all that said, with DHA takeover, I would be extremely cautious about joining now. They are cutting back a lot of specialities and things that shouldn’t be competitive are becoming extremely competitive. For example, during my application cycle pediatrics in the navy had a <50% match rate, and it’s continuing to drop as more spots get cut. That can happen with any specialty, so if you’re a bad student don’t take the scholarship because you won’t match the specialty you want. If you don’t match the specialty you want, you’ll likely end up in a TY spot and sent out to gmo. If the ty spots become competitive then you’ll get deferred to the civilian world for a 1 year spot and then get sent out to the fleet from there. If you don’t match civilian then you’ll owe the military all the money they paid for your schooling plus interest because you failed to meet your contract obligations. You won’t know how competitive your specialty is until the year you apply as it varies from year to year depending on what people want to do. You could have 20 people applying for 5 spots, or 3 people applying for 5 spots.

The benefits are nice but there is too much risk involved right now I think.

 

[BunnyMan17]

USUHS Navy MS3 here. I'd echo everything that's been said before, if you're looking at GS, IM, FM, EM, ortho, etc. then the spots should be fine. Otherwise there is a fair amount of risk unless you're okay with doing a few years of GMO then moving back into civilian life. I've known a few DOs who would otherwise have 350k+ in debt that did this and had no complaints.
Also I'd point out you get to do some really cool #$*%. I'm literally gearing up to head out to HI (on Uncle Sam's dime) for 4 weeks and I've already spent time teaching local physicians in underdeveloped countries and had a ton of hands on TCC. I have friends that have participated in RIMPAC (Exercise RIMPAC - Wikipedia), flown in fighters, deployed with the marines, instructed MS2 TCC, worked on the USS Mercy, etc.
The money tends to be a wash after 4 years of payback for most average priced schools. The faculty at this point in my training appear to wayyyy nicer than their civilian counterparts. I'd defer to the residents on quality there but we are all held to the same standards as the civilians.

()
Edit: Don't forget this guy. Good times.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

USUHS Navy MS3 here. I'd echo everything that's been said before, if you're looking at GS, IM, FM, EM, ortho, etc. then the spots should be fine. Otherwise there is a fair amount of risk unless you're okay with doing a few years of GMO then moving back into civilian life. I've known a few DOs who would otherwise have 350k+ in debt that did this and had no complaints.
Also I'd point out you get to do some really cool #$*%. I'm literally gearing up to head out to HI (on Uncle Sam's dime) for 4 weeks and I've already spent time teaching local physicians in underdeveloped countries and had a ton of hands on TCC. I have friends that have participated in RIMPAC (Exercise RIMPAC - Wikipedia), flown in fighters, deployed with the marines, instructed MS2 TCC, worked on the USS Mercy, etc.
The money tends to be a wash after 4 years of payback for most average priced schools. The faculty at this point in my training appear to wayyyy nicer than their civilian counterparts. I'd defer to the residents on quality there but we are all held to the same standards as the civilians.

()
Edit: Don't forget this guy. Good times.

Start M1 at USUHS in 8 days. Can't wait for that stuff!

 

[BunnyMan17]

Start M1 at USUHS in 8 days. Can't wait for that stuff!

Wait until you get to MS1 Bushmaster, literally never had so much fun in my entire life. If you get a choice of your PUC (casualty identifier), go for the gluteal GSW or any sort of intra-abdominal hemorrhage. Gives you loads of creative freedom and you'll learn a lot as opposed to something with more extensive moulage.