Thoughts on the application process. A true underdog story.

[flip26]

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Please enlighten me. Is it your obvious jealousy of my success that makes you so skeptical?

This thread was meant to be positive and present my thoughts on how people can maximize their potential for success. Please stop the low GPA bashing. Also, realize that you don't have to be URM or economically disadvantaged to get accepted with lower stats (At any school), provided you can present your situation in a compelling manner.

Yes, I am extremely jealous of some anonymous poster's bull**** "underdog success story" on an internet forum.

 

[drizzt3117]

I look at it like the heartwarming story of some guy who got in a car accident and they thought he was a paraplegic but somehow managed to walk again.

Cool story, makes you happy, but is almost 100% irrelevant for all the other paraplegics out there in the world.

Are they going to walk again? It's not IMPOSSIBLE, but for all intents and purposes, they won't.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Success stories happen. Why so hostile? Be happy for him. There was obviously something about his application that made him attractive. It's not absolutely necessary to have a 4.5 to get into med school. While I certainly wouldn't advise anyone with similar stats to apply to top schools (or anything other than state and DO schools, for that matter), miracles happen.

 

[student1799]

and you did, probably because of your "goddamned impressive" life.

Obviously, because with a 3.6 BCPM I must be some kind of idiot, right?

You're probably about 23, in which case I've been out of college more years than you've been alive. Allow me to make the shocking suggestion that what I accomplished in the 25 years since college (a successful career, a professional degree and raising 2 kids, not to mention premed classes and volunteer work) just MIGHT be more relevant to my med school application than my undergraduate GPA and even my MCAT score.

I was invited for interviews by several schools (including my state schools) that clearly found my accomplishments compelling, had great interviews, but ended up waitlisted. I found out after the fact that due to the way their point systems functioned, there was virtually no chance from the get-go that I could have been admitted to the schools, because the interview was not worth enough points to offset the drag created by low stats. In that case, why bother? On the other hand, if these schools had a "level playing field," I might have had a chance at outright admission.

 

[Handy388]

Please enlighten me. Is it your obvious jealousy of my success that makes you so skeptical?

This thread was meant to be positive and present my thoughts on how people can maximize their potential for success. Please stop the low GPA bashing. Also, realize that you don't have to be URM or economically disadvantaged to get accepted with lower stats (At any school), provided you can present your situation in a compelling manner.

OP, you have suggested that your ECs and life situation is normal of other applicants (white male, average research, average clinicals, etc), however, you somehow spined your average situation so amazingly that a top 10 school admitted you even though your numbers are low for those schools.

What we feel, is that there has to be something that set you apart more than the "averages" you been telling us (which for a top 10 research schools, are really pretty far below average). There has to be something about you that adcoms find so irresistable that they take you.

What I am trying to say, is that, perhaps we don't believe that you can achieve what you have achieved just by being average but spin the story extremely well that you stand out (how many way can one spin a traditional white male student's life story unless something amazing happened?).

The way I feel about top 10 schools, is that they have enough perfect applicants that an amazing presentation can only fix one area (in my case, a comparatively low GPA), but cannot get you in if you are average otherwise (remember being average is really below average for top 10)

Please don't take it personally, we are just curious.

 

[Handy388]

Obviously, because with a 3.6 BCPM I must be some kind of idiot, right?

You're probably about 23, in which case I've been out of college more years than you've been alive. Allow me to make the shocking suggestion that what I accomplished in the 25 years since college (a successful career, a professional degree and raising 2 kids, not to mention premed classes and volunteer work) just MIGHT be more relevant to my med school application than my undergraduate GPA and even my MCAT score.

I was invited for interviews by several schools (including my state schools) that clearly found my accomplishments compelling, had great interviews, but ended up waitlisted. I found out after the fact that due to the way their point systems functioned, there was virtually no chance from the get-go that I could have been admitted to the schools, because the interview was not worth enough points to offset the drag created by low stats. In that case, why bother? On the other hand, if these schools had a "level playing field," I might have had a chance at outright admission.

student1799 persumably have more astonishing life experiences than the OP, and being a professional, probably knows how to sell herself way better. Yet, you don't see her spin her way into Harvard and UCSF. I see her case as the norm in the admissions game, where experiences are overlooked for numbers. which is BS, because she really deserve the best.

OP's story is extremely rare. I am guessing he got into a top 10 state school that happened to not be as much of a stats ***** as other schools.

 

[drizzt3117]

Obviously, because with a 3.6 BCPM I must be some kind of idiot, right?

You're probably about 23, in which case I've been out of college more years than you've been alive. Allow me to make the shocking suggestion that what I accomplished in the 25 years since college (a successful career, a professional degree and raising 2 kids, not to mention premed classes and volunteer work) just MIGHT be more relevant to my med school application than my undergraduate GPA and even my MCAT score.

Nice straw man argument there, is that something you learned during your successful career?

Regardless of what your specific stats were (IIRC preapp I recall something like 3.3c/~29 MCAT [yes, I know you retook it too] but feel free to correct me) they were below the averages for almost every school you applied to, yet you managed to get in. This is likely because they adcoms felt that your qualitative accomplishments outweighed your low stats.

Don't take out your hostility due to your self-perceived lack of success during this application cycle out on me, I'm not the one who gave you a low GPA. My point was that you should be happy you got in, and I think you should.

Even though it's irrelevant to the conversation, I was a non-trad applicant too, who also had a professional degree (3 actually), and a successful career, but I wasn't one that was hampered by low stats. I think schools value life experience to some degree, although so far in my experience, I think that typical non-trad med students (with some exceptions) do tend to have a bit more difficulty during the preclinical years at least. Maybe they make up for it in clinicals, who knows.

I was invited for interviews by several schools (including my state schools) that clearly found my accomplishments compelling, had great interviews, but ended up waitlisted. I found out after the fact that due to the way their point systems functioned, there was virtually no chance from the get-go that I could have been admitted to the schools, because the interview was not worth enough points to offset the drag created by low stats. In that case, why bother? On the other hand, if these schools had a "level playing field," I might have had a chance at outright admission.

You're right, they probably shouldn't have interviewed you. Happy now?

I don't know what you're trying to say. Yes it sucks that other people who had higher stats have an advantage post-interview, but would you have been happier not to have any chance at all?

 

[AdmiralChz]

Success stories happen. Why so hostile? Be happy for him. .

👍👍👍 It's amazing how SOME people are so ready to jump down everyone's throats, ready to bash some great stories.

Good job OP, way to beat the odds!

 

[drizzt3117]

Obviously, because with a 3.6 BCPM I must be some kind of idiot, right?

You're probably about 23, in which case I've been out of college more years than you've been alive. Allow me to make the shocking suggestion that what I accomplished in the 25 years since college (a successful career, a professional degree and raising 2 kids, not to mention premed classes and volunteer work) just MIGHT be more relevant to my med school application than my undergraduate GPA and even my MCAT score.

I was invited for interviews by several schools (including my state schools) that clearly found my accomplishments compelling, had great interviews, but ended up waitlisted. I found out after the fact that due to the way their point systems functioned, there was virtually no chance from the get-go that I could have been admitted to the schools, because the interview was not worth enough points to offset the drag created by low stats. In that case, why bother? On the other hand, if these schools had a "level playing field," I might have had a chance at outright admission.

The other obvious reason (which you've probably thought of) is that state (and potentially other) schools might also consider that the investment in training and educating a medical student/resident is in excess of $500k, and that money might be better served in training someone who will be working as a physician for an additional ~25 years in the state in question, as obviously the goal of state schools is to train doctors for the people of that state using that state's funding. That's another downside of the non-trad candidate (although I do think that in general they have it good in the application process)

 

[DrYoda]

lots of aggression up in here. Lol.

 

[airca12]

I was invited for interviews by several schools (including my state schools) that clearly found my accomplishments compelling, had great interviews, but ended up waitlisted. I found out after the fact that due to the way their point systems functioned, there was virtually no chance from the get-go that I could have been admitted to the schools, because the interview was not worth enough points to offset the drag created by low stats. In that case, why bother? On the other hand, if these schools had a "level playing field," I might have had a chance at outright admission.

Give yourself more credit than that. Schools don't interview people they aren't interested in. They wouldn't have wasted their time.

They obviously knew where you were numerically and chose to interview you anyway. What does that tell you?

 

[Bacchus]

For a bunch of 21/22+ year olds we sure do argue a lot.

 

[student1799]

Regardless of what your specific stats were (IIRC preapp I recall something like 3.3c/~29 MCAT [yes, I know you retook it too] but feel free to correct me)

You'd better believe I feel free to correct you, because you have no idea what you're talking about. I have never stated my uGPA on SDN, so you couldn't "know" that it's 3.3 (in fact, it's higher). Nor did I get a 29 on the MCAT; it says in my original post ON THIS THREAD that I had a 31, but unbalanced (7 in PS). I also said right in my post that I retook the MCAT; I didn't mention the score, but got a 33 with 12 in PS. (However, none of the schools accepted this for admissions purposes because it was a January score.)

they were below the averages for almost every school you applied to

How the hell would you know? Not only did I not give my uGPA, I never said where I applied.

Don't take out your hostility due to your self-perceived lack of success during this application cycle out on me

I was never having a conversation with you in the first place. I was replying to Handy388's post, which took issue with the OP's statement that applicants were "on a level playing field" once they reached the interview stage. Handy388's experience suggested otherwise, and I agreed with him. I also expressed the wish that the schools did things differently. This was not "hostility due to self-perceived lack of success," just my opinion that the "level playing field" approach was better.

All the hostility came from YOU, who came out of nowhere to attack me. Your rhetorical question ("what's more important, a 30-minute conversation or everything you've done in your whole life?") clearly implied that my life must have been UNimpressive if I got waitlisted at a given school. That's a pretty amazing statement, considering that you know **** about my life, but if you're going to attack me I'm going to defend myself. The references to my age, career, etc. were there to make the point that there's far more to a person's "whole life" than their GPA, although you seem to think otherwise.

 

[drizzt3117]

You'd better believe I feel free to correct you, because you have no idea what you're talking about. I have never stated my uGPA on SDN, so you couldn't "know" that it's 3.3 (in fact, it's higher). Nor did I get a 29 on the MCAT; it says in my original post ON THIS THREAD that I had a 31, but unbalanced (7 in PS). I also said right in my post that I retook the MCAT; I didn't mention the score, but got a 33 with 12 in PS. However, none of the schools accepted this for admissions purposes because it was a January score.

I remembered you mentioning the stats in another post you mentioned being pissed off about the application process. Sorry that I got the specific numbers wrong.

How the hell would you know? Not only did I not give my uGPA, I never said where I applied.

You were citing your BCPM, meaning that your cGPA was likely lower. If not, then why consider yourself low stat, as you wouldn't be with a 3.6+ and 31. My guess was that it was substantially lower, putting it below the matriculant average of essentially every allo school in the US (2008 average, 3.66 cGPA)

All the hostility came from YOU, who came out of nowhere to attack me. Your rhetorical question ("what's more important, a 30-minute conversation or everything you've done in your whole life?") clearly implied that my life must have been UNimpressive if I got waitlisted at a given school. That's a pretty amazing statement, considering that you know **** about my life, but if you're going to attack me I'm going to defend myself. The references to my age, career, etc. were there to make the point that there's far more to a person's "whole life" than their GPA, although you seem to think otherwise.

My point with that statement, I'd imagine which most people saw clearly, was that the interview SHOULDN'T be more important than the applicant's entire body of work. I don't know how you gathered that I meant that in reference to your life being unimpressive. I don't care if your life is impressive or not.

That said, my personal opinion is that stats are the best representation of people's academic capability that a medical school can get. They don't have the luxury of following you around for a couple days to see what kind of person you are. All they have is what's on the sheet to decide if you're worthy of talking to or not. I think the academic capability part is important just because med school is rigorous academically, more so than undergrad. That's not to say people with low stats wouldn't be able to succeed, but it is what it is.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Let's please try to keep this thread civil and on topic. None of the personal arguments and attacks that I'm seeing here have anything to do with the OP's story.

 

[Bacchus]

OP, congratulations. You have nothing to prove to anyone.

 

[chocolaterie]

When you do the common things in life in an uncommon way you will command the attention of the world. -Carver

Although this statement is much more grandiose, I believe it was your sincerity and narrative ability that helped make you a better applicant. You took your stats and made the most of it. Many others in your shoes probably would not have applied... and a great deal were probably rejected. Statistically, it would be near impossible to get into a top 10, but you were the out lier. The worse thing that could have happened was they they would say no. In which case you could have tried again (after improvement) or moved on. This story is inspirational, because it gives applicants hope (even if some view it as false hope). Who knows, maybe your story will inspire someone else to become the next out lier. In the end you'll never really know unless you try.

 

[smalltowngeek]

Thank you to everyone who has kind words.

Student1799: Let's just relish in the fact that we were able to find success against the odds. Congratulations to you and we don't have to explain ourselves to anyone.

Just wondering, did some of you guys root Against Rocky and the Karate Kid?? Jokes...

I can understand how it's hard to believe when everyone talks so much about having killer stats or you shouldn't even bother. Again, I emphasize that I did nothing that was independently exceptional. I just made sure that each of my activities provided quality experiences, again so I could relate to them with passion and enthusiasm. I feel that I was able to tie everything together into a great package, and maybe that was where the exception lied.

Many people do many things that are independently impressive for their application, but only for the sake of applying. Do things that, when taken as a whole, allow you to demonstrate your passion and love of medicine.

The one thing I told myself when I started this process was that I wanted to be genuine. It sounds silly, but so many people try so hard to be someone they think someone else wants them to be that they lose their identity and what makes them unique. How can you present yourself if you don't even know who you are? ...no matter how good of a salesman you are.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Many people do many things that are independently impressive for their application, but only for the sake of applying. Do things that, when taken as a whole, allow you to demonstrate your passion and love of medicine.

The one thing I told myself when I started this process was that I wanted to be genuine. It sounds silly, but so many people try so hard to be someone they think someone else wants them to be that they lose their identity and what makes them unique. How can you present yourself if you don't even know who you are? ...no matter how good of a salesman you are.

👍 Not to invalidate anyone else's pride in their own application, stats, or whatever they think got them in (or maybe hindered them), I think there is a lot of truth in those two paragraphs.

 

[NCDocWannabe]

Oh no...
Like they wld say...too many pennies getting on the railroad track...
Dude...Flip...chill. You may have a point, but your way of expressing it is..👎

Thank God!!! I thought I was the only one who felt this way. Whoever this Flip is needs to tone it down quite a bit and go find a bit of tact because his whole crusade/tirade against anyone without a 4.0/45 is quite ridiculous....👍👍👍

 

[flip26]

Thank God!!! I thought I was the only one who felt this way. Whoever this Flip is needs to tone it down quite a bit and go find a bit of tact because his whole crusade/tirade against anyone without a 4.0/45 is quite ridiculous....👍👍👍

Dude, first you called me a douche, then asked me for a truce, and here you are at it again totally exaggerating what I have said here or anywhere else on SDN with respect to GPA and MCAT.

If you want to "believe" the OP, go right ahead. His original post, and his subsequent efforts to explain himself when I and others asked for details, without him giving any more details, fail my smell test. That's all.

 

[phospho]

Interesting thread. Although I think the OP means well and did a great job (congrats!) in the app process, I gotta agree with flip's point.

To elaborate on that, a lot of us applicants have (on average) spent thousands of dollars and a COUNTLESS number of hours preparing for this process and keeping our GPA's as high as possible. To tell us that you got in with a lower GPA and MCAT because of your "salesmanship" is quite insulting. Don't you think we've already addressed something so simple? I'm sure you didn't mean any harm, but you must realize that what you're doing is the equivalent of going up to someone who failed a test and telling them that they should have "focused more".

Random example: Look at "Onlyneedoneyes". I don't care what others have gone through or what their life experiences were - someone like him with such a high GPA and MCAT (39!) no doubt put his heart and soul into his education. More than most of us here. For someone who put half the effort on his MCAT and GPA to come up to him and tell him that he probably didn't get in because he didn't "sell himself" is insulting. Yes, yes, yes, GPA and MCAT aren't always exactly correlated with effort, but you get my point.

Again, congrats, and good luck!

 

[drizzt3117]

Yes, yes, yes, GPA and MCAT aren't always exactly correlated with effort, but you get my point.

I think looking at things from the adcom perspective is sometimes instructive. They are looking for students that will make good physicians, represent their school well, and succeed in the rigors of med school. Therefore, while it's true and very important that they want high quality and high character individuals, the last part is one of the strongest reasons why stats matter, because they're the best indicator a school has, of how students will be able to handle the difficult workload. The last thing a school wants is to for someone to drop out. It's a huge waste of time, money, effort, and prevents someone who could have become a doctor from being in the class. THAT'S why schools are concerned with GPA/MCAT, not because of the effort that went into getting those grades.

If you never showed up for class except for the exams (but somehow managed to get great LORs, maybe by setting the curve in a huge class where the profs don't really know anyone anyways) and barely studied but got a 4.0, nailed the MCAT, had good experiences and a good personal statement, you'll probably do well in the admissions process, regardless of how much effort you put into getting your stats. That person will probably have to do some reevaluation of their methods once they get to med school but my guess is they'll still have an easier time than the person who worked super hard for their 3.3 and never got a solid A in any class during college.

 

[smalltowngeek]

For someone who put half the effort on his MCAT and GPA to come up to him and tell him that he probably didn't get in because he didn't "sell himself" is insulting. Yes, yes, yes, GPA and MCAT aren't always exactly correlated with effort, but you get my point.

Why else would someone be denied acceptances with such phenominal stats? Where do people get this idea that high stats entitle them to an acceptance? If that were the case, schools wouldn't have us write all of those essays and come interview. They would just fill their class with the top of the list. But, as we all know, that is not the case. No offence to the member you are talking about, but you brought it up...

flip: You have every right choose whether or not to believe me.
You are absolutley right. I could just as easily be some highschool dropout living vicareously through some online forum as I could be a legitimate poster. Take whatever you want from this thread.

 

[Handy388]

I guess I am more bothered by OP's "I am dead average, but as long as I am geniune/coherent/sell myself better I can succeed". I think people should always strive to be the best of themselves.

To say that "I am dead average but I get in by being geniune and you can do it to" is to ignore the reality that thousands of geniune people don't make it because their low number.

 

[drizzt3117]

Why else would someone be denied acceptances with such phenominal stats? Where do people get this idea that high stats entitle them to an acceptance? If that were the case, schools wouldn't have us write all of those essays and come interview. They would just fill their class with the top of the list. But, as we all know, that is not the case. No offence to the member you are talking about, but you brought it up...

Why does an amazing life story entitle them to an acceptance in medical school. Sure, maybe they could write a story about how they were a child soldier in Rwanda and get on the NY Times bestseller list, but how does that help them succeed in medical school, become a good doctor, or represent the school well? Schools have limited ways in determining future success. Clearly stats are at least a decent indicator of how well people will do in the preclinical years, if nothing else. Although my previous post indicates that I believe it's a fallacy, they also apparently are a proxy for hard work to a certain degree, or at least lack of apathy.

 

[Handy388]

Why else would someone be denied acceptances with such phenominal stats? Where do people get this idea that high stats entitle them to an acceptance? If that were the case, schools wouldn't have us write all of those essays and come interview. They would just fill their class with the top of the list. But, as we all know, that is not the case. No offence to the member you are talking about, but you brought it up...

flip: You have every right choose whether or not to believe me.
You are absolutley right. I could just as easily be some highschool dropout living vicareously through some online forum as I could be a legitimate poster. Take whatever you want from this thread.

People with high stats are not entitled to an acceptance, but I feel the work they put in and the drive they have are a lot more geniune than someone who spend time instead to polish their essay 20 times.

 

[witness23]

People with high stats are not entitled to an acceptance, but I feel the work they put in and the drive they have are a lot more geniune than someone who spend time instead to polish their essay 20 times.

agree. but you will see that people who can sell themselves will bring in more money for the hospital, or be more competitive for grants. If they are genuine and caring (which I believe all people to be), then it will most definitely help their co-workers and "the field of medicine". I do totally agree that people who devoted a lot of time to their studies deserve to get in (they usually do though, right)

Anyway that was pretty irrelevant. We all have different qualities. ****, we all wrote that diversity essay. Hopefully we all get to work with each other and have fun and what not.

this thread is so aggresive

 

[GeraldMonroe]

I just realized that, like others, I feel upset. The OP's win feels underhanded somehow.

Before I was accepted, I resented the folk with higher GPAs than me because I felt the typical premed had better access to opportunity than I ever did. However, I also knew that they had earned their chance to be considered. A high GPA means you stayed more or less on the right track for years on end. Spending time volunteering means you put effort into improving your qualifications.

But what did the OP do? If you believe his story, he didn't do jack. Some 'innate quality' of him made him seem like he would be a better physician than all the rest of us. He was probably a smoother talker, more sociable, with a better essay.

Worse, none of us can mimic his success, even if we wanted to. If his story is true, something about him is "1/1000", drawing other people to him and making them feel like helping him. There's simply no way for any of us to improve ourselves to be like the OP, simply because in life we never get honest and objective feedback about how we come across to others. If the OP is telling the truth, he'll always be better at reassuring patients, getting along with staff, and will be sued less simply because he has so much charisma.

So it's pretty upsetting to read this. There's a student out there with an above average personality, a 3.6+ and a 35+ who isn't going to get to go to a top 10 medical school because they gave the spot to the OP.

There's probably also 100 more people just like the OP, with almost as much charisma and similar stats who were rejected from medical school entirely this year.

 

[witness23]

LOL. nah man. look it sucks, but

what the OP was trying to do is really motivate or encourage. He was trying to be humble and, at the same time, emphasize by saying top 10. It just went into the wrong way.

I'm pretty sure he actually put a lot of work in, let's not get it twisted.

 

[phospho]

Why else would someone be denied acceptances with such phenominal stats? Where do people get this idea that high stats entitle them to an acceptance? If that were the case, schools wouldn't have us write all of those essays and come interview. They would just fill their class with the top of the list. But, as we all know, that is not the case. No offence to the member you are talking about, but you brought it up...

flip: You have every right choose whether or not to believe me.
You are absolutley right. I could just as easily be some highschool dropout living vicareously through some online forum as I could be a legitimate poster. Take whatever you want from this thread.

I'm not saying that high stats should automatically entitle people to an acceptance. I'm saying it's not fair for you to assume that people like "Onlyneedoneyes" didn't get in because they are "ingenuine" or bad salesmen. As a side note, my opinion is that you can't be a a salesman AND genuine at the same time. You wouldn't need to sell yourself if you were truly genuine.

Also, just because you got in w/ such low stats doesn't mean you were "genuine". In fact, I think you're being rather presumptuous by assuming so. That's where flip's comments come into play. He doesn't think it's your "genuity" that got you in (and neither do I). There's a lot of luck, subjectivity, and confounding variables in this process.

Why does an amazing life story entitle them to an acceptance in medical school. Sure, maybe they could write a story about how they were a child soldier in Rwanda and get on the NY Times bestseller list, but how does that help them succeed in medical school, become a good doctor, or represent the school well? Schools have limited ways in determining future success. Clearly stats are at least a decent indicator of how well people will do in the preclinical years, if nothing else. Although my previous post indicates that I believe it's a fallacy, they also apparently are a proxy for hard work to a certain degree, or at least lack of apathy.

My thoughts exactly.

To say that "I am dead average but I get in by being geniune and you can do it to" is to ignore the reality that thousands of geniune people don't make it because their low number.

Excellent point.

 

[chiz2kul]

LOL. nah man. look it sucks, but

what the OP was trying to do is really motivate or encourage. He was trying to be humble and, at the same time, emphasize by saying top 10. It just went into the wrong way.

I'm pretty sure he actually put a lot of work in, let's not get it twisted.

Dude! Thank you! Talk about getting it twisted.

Only on sdn. It must have been a bad day for some posters here.
Why do you have to scrutinize every little detail, and attempt to draw conclusions on such a simple post. CHILL OUT!
The OP was just trying to say its not all about numbers (and that can go either way), and there more to med school than just your GPA and MCAT score!

 

[smalltowngeek]

what the OP was trying to do is really motivate or encourage. He was trying to be humble and, at the same time, emphasize by saying top 10. It just went into the wrong way.

I'm pretty sure he actually put a lot of work in, let's not get it twisted.

Bingo!

Man, my posts have gotten very misconstrued. Let me try once more to clarify my opinions/statements.

I didn't mean to imply that only a compelling story will get you in. I simply said that it can be a big help if you are having to explain a poor number.

As for my GPA. By itself, it looks like I am either an idiot or a slacker. I can assure you I am neither. As I said, there was a strong upward trend... When I identified Biology as a subject that evoked my passion, I averaged about a 3.9 (including solid A's in ALL of my upper level bio classes). It just so happened that I had a lot of B's and C's holding my GPA down from the years I didn't know what the heck I wanted to do. This trend, taken with a PS that talked about my growth, and LOR's that corroborated are probably the reason i was able to overcome such a bad number.

I can assure you that I have never strived for mediocrity. I have worked my butt off ever since I discovered my interest in medicine... and it showed if one were to look into my application. If it didn't, I am positive I would have been rejected everywhere.

Regarding our "entitlement" discussion. I am sure we can all agree that no one is entitled to anything. A compelling story/good presentation of oneself or stellar stats alone will usually end in rejection. The reason is that adcoms are looking for individuals who are not only intelligent, but are motivated for medicine as well. In my case, I just had to structure my app in order to point out my academic abilities so that people could get past one bad number and see my hard work.

EDIT: Maybe that's what I am trying to say, and just doing a bad job of it. If you have a bad number despite your demonstrated ability, how you present it will determine how it is perceived by a reviewer/interviewer. And it will hopefully allow you to overcome the rather large shadow it casts on you.

 

[Handy388]

Bingo!

Man, my posts have gotten very misconstrued. Let me try once more to clarify my opinions/statements.

I didn't mean to imply that only a compelling story will get you in. I simply said that it can be a big help if you are having to explain a poor number.

As for my GPA. By itself, it looks like I am either an idiot or a slacker. I can assure you I am neither. As I said, there was a strong upward trend... When I identified Biology as a subject that evoked my passion, I averaged about a 3.9 (including solid A's in ALL of my upper level bio classes). It just so happened that I had a lot of B's and C's holding my GPA down from the years I didn't know what the heck I wanted to do. This trend, taken with a PS that talked about my growth, and LOR's that corroborated are probably the reason i was able to overcome such a bad number.

I can assure you that I have never strived for mediocrity. I have worked my butt off ever since I discovered my interest in medicine... and it showed if one were to look into my application. If it didn't, I am positive I would have been rejected everywhere.

Regarding our "entitlement" discussion. I am sure we can all agree that no one is entitled to anything. A compelling story/good presentation of oneself or stellar stats alone will usually end in rejection. The reason is that adcoms are looking for individuals who are not only intelligent, but are motivated for medicine as well. In my case, I just had to structure my app in order to point out my academic abilities so that people could get past one bad number and see my hard work.

EDIT: Maybe that's what I am trying to say, and just doing a bad job of it. If you have a bad number despite your demonstrated ability, how you present it will determine how it is perceived by a reviewer/interviewer. And it will hopefully allow you to overcome the rather large shadow it casts on you.

this make sense, respect. Solid As in all upper division bios are truly amazing. You deserve what you have. I just had issues with your statements which seemingly suggested an aim toward mediocrocy.

 

[witness23]

makes me wonder...

if slumdog didn't actually win the million dollars (or rupees)
would latika have gone back for him?

 

[GeraldMonroe]

Your revised story makes a lot more sense.

You finished an engineering degree. Those are hard, and very rigorous. A 2.9 or whatever you had as a GPA for engineering is about average for someone who will become a decent engineer.

You haven't told us what institution was undergrad, but it may have been an extremely rigorous institution. A 2.9 at MIT in engineering is at least as good as a 3.6 at Generic State University.

And, a 3.9 in upper bio courses is about the same as any other top drawer applicant for medical school. The objective truth is, from what you have told us, you might be as good as the average person admitted to a top 10 school.

Now, a 30 on the MCAT isn't good. Hate to say it, but there's solid correlations between higher MCAT scores and higher medical school performance. The AAMC claims that the MCAT is the best predictor of medical school performance available. They claim it predicts Step 1 scores, basic science grades, and 3rd year rotation grades better than any other objective metric for a medical applicant. 30 is not up to the standards of a top 10 medical school, although is about average for the overall medical matriculant.

 

[191159]

I just think it's funny how angry people are getting at someone's success. If it was them, it would be NO problem. Yes his GPA is sub-par; however, he does have a huge upward trend proving that he's just as capable as the "3.9 GPA" student now that whatever was inhibiting him has been removed. Believe it or not SDN, not everyone is under circumstances where they can perform ideally from day 1 of freshman year.

Secondly, I don't think the OP meant any harm when he spoke about being genuine. That's how HE felt about his application cycle and wanted to share it with others. I read this thread really fast but I didn't get the feeling that the OP was trying to be cocky or presumptuous. That is all. Congrats OP.

 

[smalltowngeek]

I just had issues with your statements which seemingly suggested an aim toward mediocrocy.

Word. I was just trying to say that I didn't have some smoking gun like I cured cancer, came from nine different minority backgrounds, or was forced into child prostitution. My EC's were average (by SDN standards). I tried to hard to emphasize that. The way I said it did make it sound like I had no desire to achieve now that I read back through my posts. Sometimes it's hard to get your point across whilst typing on a computer...😀

 

[smalltowngeek]

a 30 on the MCAT isn't good. Hate to say it, but there's solid correlations between higher MCAT scores and higher medical school performance. The AAMC claims that the MCAT is the best predictor of medical school performance available. They claim it predicts Step 1 scores, basic science grades, and 3rd year rotation grades better than any other objective metric for a medical applicant. 30 is not up to the standards of a top 10 medical school, although is about average for the overall medical matriculant.

Totally agree with the exception of the bolded. Although I would have loved to have done better, I realized (everywhere other than SDN) that a 30 is an acceptable score. People need to evaluate their performance on an individual basis, but I don't think anyone should be ashamed with a 30. Some of that may be pride, but I think that in the general population of applicants, not the highly skewed population of SDN regulars, a 30 is considered a solid score... although maybe not ideal for someone hoping to get into a top ten. As you already said.

Another EDIT: I never graduated with an engineering degree... only went one year in, then floundered around in many other majors before finally settling.

 

[drizzt3117]

Totally agree with the exception of the bolded. Although I would have loved to have done better, I realized (everywhere other than SDN) that a 30 is an acceptable score. People need to evaluate their performance on an individual basis, but I don't think anyone should be ashamed with a 30. Some of that may be pride, but I think that in the general population of applicants, not the highly skewed population of SDN regulars, a 30 is considered a solid score... although maybe not ideal for someone hoping to get into a top ten. As you already said.

A 30 is about the 40th percentile for matriculants... so I'm not really sure how that is considered solid by any standards.

 

[AdmiralChz]

Sigh... there is too much here for me to review.

But given a case of a really strong applicant (3.9+, 39+), it is VERY possible that they bombed interviews by lack of social skills. A premed robot with zero ECs can achieve these stats, but they probably won't get any acceptances. Stats give you an opportunity to get into a class, but by NO MEANS give you a guaranteed spot. It is up to you to sell yourself positively at the interview process, which the OP seems to have done exceedingly well.

There is so much more to this process than stats. In the case of the member mentioned above, I have to note that he is quite young - 18 if I remember correctly - which would place him under the 1 percentile for matriculants. That introduces a very important point on adcoms - to some degree, they strive to put together a class that coheres well. Being so young can be inimical to this goal, as discussed ad nauseum in other threads.

My point? The OP is definitely an outlier - his ECs and personal skills appear to have separated himself from the rest of the crowd. It's a great story, and we shouldn't take away from it. Yes, it's possible he's lying. But there is no guarantee that anyone else on SDN is any more genuine than him (i.e. drizzt might not be a medical student at all, or LizzyM might not even be an adcom member) - the anonymity of these forums assures this fact.

Stats are an important part of applicantions, but are by no means the only factor involved in admissions. We all want to be doctors, shouldn't we celebrate the accomplishments of our peers, and encourage others to reach their goals? The OP's thoughts of whether some of you would root against the Karate Kid, Rocky, and Average Joe's Gym apply here - "underdog" stories like these by no means are the norm, but it's awesome when they are successful.

 

[drizzt3117]

My point? The OP is definitely an outlier - his ECs and personal skills appear to have separated himself from the rest of the crowd. It's a great story, and we shouldn't take away from it. Yes, it's possible he's lying. But there is no guarantee that anyone else on SDN is any more genuine than him (i.e. drizzt might not be a medical student at all, or LizzyM might not even be an adcom member) - the anonymity of these forums assures this fact.

There is much less anonymity on here than you would think. I've met a few dozen people from here and I assure you I'm not alone in that. Adcoms also much of the time have a clear idea who posters are.

 

[witness23]

i'm always down for an inspiring story. this is tough times for the country - not just financially, but the mental health issues have been more prevalent in the news as well. anything happy is great

I think we have to be aware that most admission decisions are based on committee reviews and not just the interviewer or the dean of admissions. as we can clearly see from this thread, it is VERY difficult to please a large group of people. the OP invested in his work and put forth the best application possible from his experiences.

I can only guess that, since he managed to convince a number of experienced medical professionals on the adcom, he is clearly deserving, or atleast he didn't michigan state his way into med school.

i think he used the word genuine to describe how he reflected on his ongoing pursuit of medicine. he just mean he kept it honest to himself and figured himself out. you can kinda get a hint of that from him changing majors, etc. this allowed him to be articulate/specific/confident on his application and interviews.

i'm just assuming

 

[AdmiralChz]

There is much less anonymity on here than you would think. I've met a few dozen people from here and I assure you I'm not alone in that. Adcoms also much of the time have a clear idea who posters are.

I have yet to meet anyone in the "real world" from SDN, and I hope to keep it that way. I operate here under anonymity myself - otherwise I would use my full name when I post.

The adcom comment might be true at your school, but likely isn't true at most - members just don't have the time to look at SDN on a regular basis and form opinions on individual posters. At my future medical school the comment was something like this - SDN is a social networking site, and we have neither the time, interest, or means to follow up on each applicant in this way. I would be absolutely shocked if an adcom could link my posts here to my applications. When a school has 3000+ apps, such links just aren't feasible - pretending that they are possible is tantamount to living in a dream world.

I will likely drop SDN over the summer myself - too many high horsed people here... 👎

 

[Shaptown]

Oh no...
Like they wld say...too many pennies getting on the railroad track...
Dude...Flip...chill. You may have a point, but your way of expressing it is..👎

Your avatar made me slap my computer screen

 

[Shaptown]

There is much less anonymity on here than you would think. I've met a few dozen people from here and I assure you I'm not alone in that. Adcoms also much of the time have a clear idea who posters are.

Oh yeah and honestly get a life man. You are apparently in medical school, and as such should have more important issues at hand then squabbling over admission statistics on a forum. People will get in that "didn't deserve it / didn't work as hard as you" etc...

Life is not fair, get over it.

 

[drizzt3117]

Oh yeah and honestly get a life man. You are apparently in medical school, and as such should have more important issues at hand then squabbling over admission statistics on a forum. People will get in that "didn't deserve it / didn't work as hard as you" etc...

Life is not fair, get over it.

Believe it or not, I find these issues interesting. As I've said in other threads, it's not like the only thing med students do is study.

 

[drizzt3117]

The adcom comment might be true at your school, but likely isn't true at most - members just don't have the time to look at SDN on a regular basis and form opinions on individual posters. At my future medical school the comment was something like this - SDN is a social networking site, and we have neither the time, interest, or means to follow up on each applicant in this way. I would be absolutely shocked if an adcom could link my posts here to my applications. When a school has 3000+ apps, such links just aren't feasible - pretending that they are possible is tantamount to living in a dream world.

I will likely drop SDN over the summer myself - too many high horsed people here... 👎

Most schools have student adcom members. Some of them use SDN... food for thought.............

 

[GeraldMonroe]

Drizzt : I'm posting here under my real name. I don't think more than a handful of classmates are ever going to notice my posts here, and absolutely no one in my school's administration. Nor is a single attending or resident ever likely to notice my posts here, not once. People have too many more important things to worry about.

 

[flip26]

Another EDIT: I never graduated with an engineering degree... only went one year in, then floundered around in many other majors before finally settling.

Explain how you only ended up with a cumulative 3.2 if, as you say here, you were only in engineering for one year, and you discovered your "love" for Biology where you made As, thus having a tremendous upward trend...also, you have now added another layer of BS, indicating you "floundered around in many other majors" before finding bio...so how long, exactly, were you in college? With the tremendous upward trend you claim to have, you should have ended up with something better than a 3.2...and if you really did click with science, something better than a 30 on the MCAT...

Oh, and I loved the added touch in your OP about "and then I saw my abysmal AMCAS GPA of 3.2 and said ugh" suggesting you had no idea how low your actual GPA was...and you eliminated the possibility that the "Top 10" you got into was your state school (you say you have no state med school) thus making this accomplishment even more amazing...

Your "underdog" story is nothing more than a "shaggy dog" story, Dude. Most of the people on this thread seem desperate to believe your tale, but your story is full of holes...

Troll.