Three Year Med School

[MexicanDr]

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I read at the Pre-Osteopathic forum that LECOM offers a three year program leading to a D.O. for those interested in going into primary care.

Is there such programs at allopathic schools, if so, which ones?

Also, lets say you are indeed set on doing primary care, but towards the end of your last year you decide to apply to EM or other specialties, is this possible?

Eddie

 

[Ponger]

I read at the Pre-Osteopathic forum that LECOM offers a three year program leading to a D.O. for those interested in going into primary care.

Is there such programs at allopathic schools, if so, which ones?

Also, lets say you are indeed set on doing primary care, but towards the end of your last year you decide to apply to EM or other specialties, is this possible?

Eddie

Texas Tech recently introduced the first 3-year Family Medicine track in their Lubbock campus. I believe they're the only program like that in the country.

I don't know the specifics but I suspect there would be a substantial penalty to trying to get out of the program in the last year. They probably make you sign a contract to only apply for a family medicine residency if you apply to that track. Since there are financial incentives too then there would probably be severe financial penalties for breaking the contract.

 

[orthomyxo]

Also, lets say you are indeed set on doing primary care, but towards the end of your last year you decide to apply to EM or other specialties, is this possible?

In all honesty, I have no idea about these types of programs. However, I highly highly doubt that's possible. Obviously the sole purpose of these shorter, 3-year programs are to draw students into FM. The school would probably be pretty damn pissed if you played them like that, and I'd expect some kind of horrible consequence for trying to weasel your way into a different specialty.

 

[MexicanDr]

Thanks for the info guys..

So that is the only program then?

 

[Law2Doc]

Thanks for the info guys..

So that is the only program then?

You will see when you get to med school that they really have to work hard to cram all the material you need to know into the already short 4 year time frame. Cutting it down won't serve you well. The goal isn't to get out there faster, it's to get out there with enough info in your arsenal that your internship is not a disaster. Some places do compress the material down further in order to give folks a research block, but there the goal is to make you more competitive, not set you up for a rough time in residency. And at a lot of programs, if you get your electives and sub-Is done early in 4th year, you can have a few months off at the end of 4th year. However many people use at least some of this "vacation" time toward interviewing and studying for Step 2. So plan on a 4 year med school, and plan on NEEDING 4 years of med school to come out with the necessary knowledge base. They really could expand it to 5-6 years and still not teach you everything you need to know.

 

[Law2Doc]

...
Also, lets say you are indeed set on doing primary care, but towards the end of your last year you decide to apply to EM or other specialties, is this possible?
...

I think you need to understand the time-table involved. For allo residency, you apply in early September of your 4th year for interviews in most fields, including EM. (For things like Optho, Urology, you have to apply even earlier than this). So you pretty much need to make up your mind by then. Then you go on interviews from anytime in October up through the first week of February. By the end of February you submit your match rank list. And in the 3rd week of March you have match day and find out where you matched. So long before "towards the end of your last year" you will already know where you are going, not deciding where to apply. If you are just deciding at this point, you will have to sit out a year. Or get yourself a prelim year and apply from there. Often, if someone cannot decide on a specialty by fall of 4th year, they will consider doing a year of research, to enhance their chances in whatever field they plan to go into, and thus postpone graduation a year. Which I don't really see you doing since you are inquiring about 3 year programs.

 

[djmonk]

My dad went to USF (allopathic) for medical school in the late 70s. It was a three year curriculum BUT they did not have the summers or winters off.

 

[Law2Doc]

My dad went to USF (allopathic) for medical school in the late 70s. It was a three year curriculum BUT they did not have the summers or winters off.

They actually used to have a 2 year compressed program at UMiami for folks who already had PhDs in related science fields, they had no vacations and very few weekends off. The LCME by the 1980s decided these programs were not a good idea and nixed them all, in favor of more standard paced education.

 

[ruiner]

Loyola used to have a 3 year one too. Too bad these schools couldn't continue that way.

 

[mspeedwagon]

For the LECOM program this is NOT an option. You have commit to doing primary care beforehand and can NOT change your mind. The only MD programs like this is in TX and, again, you have to commit to primary care.

Also, lets say you are indeed set on doing primary care, but towards the end of your last year you decide to apply to EM or other specialties, is this possible?

 

[morning]

Duke medical school is 4 years, but the first 2 years of science are compressed into one year, clinicals are the second year, the third year is research, and the fourth year is interviewing/electives.

 

[MexicanDr]

what if you go into a joint IM/EM or FM/EM residency then? Do you guys think this could be possible?

 

[Ponger]

what if you go into a joint IM/EM or FM/EM residency then? Do you guys think this could be possible?

Dude its a 3 year FAMILY MED program. If you really want to do EM fine, but stop trying to figure out how to abuse the program. It's meant for people who want to do family med. The way the program is constructed you may not even have time to do a single EM rotation any way.

Just go to any other school in the country (or even Texas Tech non-FM track) and do EM.

 

[Anastasis]

what if you go into a joint IM/EM or FM/EM residency then? Do you guys think this could be possible?

If you did a 3 year program, my guess is that you'd have a serious problem matching into EM. And those dual programs are decently competitive.

(For EM a big thing is the letters and you're not going to be able to get decent EM letters with only 3 years).

just my two cents.

 

[Law2Doc]

what if you go into a joint IM/EM or FM/EM residency then? Do you guys think this could be possible?

No way. You need the "prereqs" for each component. If you want to do ED, you are going to need 4 years of med school. At a few ED programs they like a prelim year as well, but this is not the norm. You have to realize that in ED, you see a little bit of everything, and so, more than most fields, you really truly are going to use more of the background med school stuff than someone who, say, specializes in a more finite specialty. It is very much a "generalist" kind of field.

So your goal should be to get as much bang for the buck as you can. Don't seek out shorter paths, even if you somehow find them. It will end up burning you in the end. If your goal is to get through in 3 years regardless of how badly this lesser quantity of education may burn you, then you need to step back and think about why you are in this career. This is a career of VERY long school and VERY long training because you will be dealing with VERY sick and frail individuals who need you to be VERY learned and trained. Shortcuts won't serve you well. An attitude that you are in a rush to get through won't serve you well. If you want a 3 and out path, try law. Medicine is a 4 year med school and then 3-7 years of training and then maybe a fellowship of 1-2 years. It's not a path for folks who rush.

 

[45408]

Way too much of M4 is wasted time. At the least, they should lower tuition for the last year.

 

[Law2Doc]

Way too much of M4 is wasted time. At the least, they should lower tuition for the last year.

Well, it's really only wasted if you choose to waste it. Some of us took useful electives up to the end, and used the vacation months sparingly for interviews and step 2. Others made the post-match portion of it a vacation.

I personally would give less vacation and build in some pre-intern procedure workshops so that everybody comes out of med school good at suturing and placing lines and foleys and chest tubes and LPs and "any"centesis, etc. That's what I saw folks sorely lacking during the first few months of internship. Also wouldn't be so bad to integrate ACLS/BLS into the end of 4th year curriculum, so folks don't have to scramble to find a place to take them over the summer prior to intern year.

 

[45408]

Well, it's really only wasted if you choose to waste it. Some of us took useful electives up to the end, and used the vacation months sparingly for interviews and step 2. Others made the post-match portion of it a vacation.

Very smooth. The rest of us are so happy for you. I had seven and a half rotations for my fourth year, and twelve rotations for third year, but the cost was the same. Who has to use their vacation "sparingly" for interviews and Step 2? I had three months off, and even two months off would have been plenty.

I personally would give less vacation and build in some pre-intern procedure workshops so that everybody comes out of med school good at suturing and placing lines and foleys and chest tubes and LPs and "any"centesis, etc. That's what I saw folks sorely lacking during the first few months of internship.

Other than surgeons and ER docs, who has to place chest tubes? Seems like you'd be wasting most people's time. Some of us would probably prefer to avoid that.

 

[morning]

Dude its a 3 year FAMILY MED program. If you really want to do EM fine, but stop trying to figure out how to abuse the program. It's meant for people who want to do family med. The way the program is constructed you may not even have time to do a single EM rotation any way.

Just go to any other school in the country (or even Texas Tech non-FM track) and do EM.

You could do pediatrics, and then the pediatric EM fellowship.

 

[Ponger]

You could do pediatrics, and then the pediatric EM fellowship.

Read the guidelines of the Texas Tech program.

"F-MAT students will participate in the National Residency Matching Program during their third and final year of medical school with the understanding that they will rank first the Texas Tech family medicine residency program on the campus where they are currently completing their final year of medical school."

Again, the point of the track is to train family med doc's. Anyone interested in anything else will just have to make due with the standard 4 year education.

 

[ruiner]

Other than surgeons and ER docs, who has to place chest tubes? Seems like you'd be wasting most people's time. Some of us would probably prefer to avoid that.

Pulmonologists on my floor do it occasionally. but dosnt really change the point.

 

[boggvir]

As someone mentioned, Duke is also effectively three years of medical education, as the first two years are compressed into one and the third year is for research. Of course, that doesn't help you if you're trying to graduate in three years...and I think Texas Tech is the only MD program that has that.


From what I gather though, most people change their minds in med school and I don't know if it's worth an extra year. It's really not going to hurt you all that much if you spend an extra year, to be honest, even if you do end up picking FM - it may even help you match at better residencies.

 

[Law2Doc]

...
Other than surgeons and ER docs, who has to place chest tubes? Seems like you'd be wasting most people's time. Some of us would probably prefer to avoid that.

Ok fine. Replace "chest tubes" with another procedure of your choosing that folks come out of med school poorly trained at. Doesn't really matter what. There's still a good argument, IMHO, that some of that vacation time in med school that you are PAYING FOR could be better used toward preparing you for internship. (And yes, pulmonologists do place chest tubes at many places, so there is an argument that at least some IM folks would benefit. I've also seen anesthesiologists place a chest tube after they dropped a lung putting in a line).

As for wasting people's time, you say on the one hand that there is too much fluff and vacation in fourth year, and then you snipe at me for saying some of us took real electives up through June. Pick a direction.

 

[45408]

Ok fine. Replace "chest tubes" with another procedure of your choosing that folks come out of med school poorly trained at. Doesn't really matter what. There's still a good argument, IMHO, that some of that vacation time in med school that you are PAYING FOR could be better used toward preparing you for internship. (And yes, pulmonologists do place chest tubes at many places, so there is an argument that at least some IM folks would benefit. I've also seen anesthesiologists place a chest tube after they dropped a lung putting in a line).

As for wasting people's time, you say on the one hand that there is too much fluff and vacation in fourth year, and then you snipe at me for saying some of us took real electives up through June. Pick a direction.

I did pick a direction. I'm "sniping" at you for being catty. I'll learn the skills specific to my field as a resident in my residency.