Tips for getting into Stanford (my dream school)

[DrNightingale]

Hello,

I'd like to get straight to the point and present you with facts and figures. I am graduating from UC Berkeley as an English Literature major with a GPA of 3.5 this May. I am a transfer student from California community colleges with a GPA of around 3.7-3.8.

My plan is to attend Cal State Univ L.A. for the next two years to meet pre-reqs for the medical school. Aside from attending school, I plan to work as a pharmacy technician (already licensed).

I have been a member of a pre-pharmacy club for the past year at UC Berkeley, have shadowed and volunteered at pharmacies.

Aside from the obvious such as getting a 4.0 GPA from Cal State and scoring wonderfully on MCAT, what can I do to increase my chances of getting accepted to Stanford? Are there research projects or programs that recruit student volunteers? Should I volunteer in hospitals? Should I shadow more?

Clearly, I'm very ambitious and motivated so any advice given will be taken with a grain of salt and after consideration will be applied to my schedule and life. So I beg you to please give me constructive advice and criticism, only!

Thank you very much.

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[mmmcdowe]

Hello,

I'd like to get straight to the point and present you with facts and figures. I am graduating from UC Berkeley as an English Literature major with a GPA of 3.5 this May. I am a transfer student from California community colleges with a GPA of around 3.7-3.8.

My plan is to attend Cal State Univ L.A. for the next two years to meet pre-reqs for the medical school. Aside from attending school, I plan to work as a pharmacy technician (already licensed).

I have been a member of a pre-pharmacy club for the past year at UC Berkeley, have shadowed and volunteered at pharmacies.

Aside from the obvious such as getting a 4.0 GPA from Cal State and scoring wonderfully on MCAT, what can I do to increase my chances of getting accepted to Stanford? Are there research projects or programs that recruit student volunteers? Should I volunteer in hospitals? Should I shadow more?

Clearly, I'm very ambitious and motivated so any advice given will be taken with a grain of salt and after consideration will be applied to my schedule and life. So I beg you to please give me constructive advice and criticism, only!

Thank you very much.

Yeah, I don't know if I would mention pharmacy stuff.... They might not like that seeing as it begs the question why didn't you go into pharmacy.
Yes there is research around, and you basically MUST get involved in it during the next 2 years. Try to get a publication out as a partial author, even if its 1204th author. You definitely need some volunteering experience with DOCTORS. Research is probably your bets bet honestly, but I don't know how much time you will have if you are working in pharm.

 

[DrNightingale]

Yeah, I don't know if I would mention pharmacy stuff.... They might not like that seeing as it begs the question why didn't you go into pharmacy.
Yes there is research around, and you basically MUST get involved in it during the next 2 years. Try to get a publication out as a partial author, even if its 1204th author. You definitely need some volunteering experience with DOCTORS. Research is probably your bets bet honestly, but I don't know how much time you will have if you are working in pharm.

Thanks for the reply. The pharmacy technician work was going to be something to do to support myself but seeing as how getting into a top medical school is my first priority in the short run of the next 2 years, I can always opt out to get a research position and survive off of loans if it comes down to that.

However, I mentioned i come from a background of humanities. I really am clueless when it comes to research in the science field - when you say research is this something university sponsored? Is it independent? Where can I find more information?

Thank you so much for your input.. I genuinely appreciate it.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Thanks for the reply. The pharmacy technician work was going to be something to do to support myself but seeing as how getting into a top medical school is my first priority in the short run of the next 2 years, I can always opt out to get a research position and survive off of loans if it comes down to that.

However, I mentioned i come from a background of humanities. I really am clueless when it comes to research in the science field - when you say research is this something university sponsored? Is it independent? Where can I find more information?

Thank you so much for your input.. I genuinely appreciate it.

It can be university sponsored or outside of a university. I would talk to someone at your uni to know what's available.

As a humanities guy you might consider public health research or research in medical history/anthropology.

 

[drizzt3117]

Stanford is really research oriented, one of the most if not the most research oriented med schools. They straight up ask you for a list of your publications on the secondary. With your profile I'd would be concerned with getting into any med school in CA much less Stanford, which matriculates a small class of people who generally have incredible research. At the interview day I spoke with 4-5 interviewees who had first author pubs in JAMA or PNAS.

 

[DrNightingale]

Stanford is really research oriented, one of the most if not the most research oriented med schools. They straight up ask you for a list of your publications on the secondary. With your profile I'd would be concerned with getting into any med school in CA much less Stanford, which matriculates a small class of people who generally have incredible research. At the interview day I spoke with 4-5 interviewees who had first author pubs in JAMA or PNAS.

Huh? What kind of a response is that? "getting into any med school". That's harsh. And I'd have all of the pre-requisites down as anyone else, just with a degree in English and that would show that I'm more versatile and diverse. I still have two years to go to meet pre-requisites so I'm trying to get a head start by asking for recommendations on these forums with what would increase my chances. Which, obviously, would be more research and getting published. Got it. However, I really don't like getting discouraged, especially this early in the game. I don't think it's fair.

 

[cliffhuxtableDO]

The previous response to Dr.Nightingale was not harsh, it was TRUE. It's hard enough to get into medical school, not to mention a top research oriented school. The admissions process is too much of a game to know what will or will not get you into Stanford. If you're smart you'll open your mind and apply broadly if you ACTUALLY want to be a doctor.

 

[virusgirl]

Don't get annoyed at drizzt; you asked for constructive advice and criticism in your original post, and he's giving you some. He said "getting into any med school in CA," and frankly, he's right. Stanford, and all of the U of C schools, are incredibly difficult to get into, and research experience (and to a lesser extent, publications) are an important part of the applicant package when applying to these schools. Many (not all) of those people have years of substantive research experience and multiple publications under their belt.

Since you still have two years to go, take his advice and do some research.

 

[flip26]

Huh? What kind of a response is that? "getting into any med school". That's harsh. And I'd have all of the pre-requisites down as anyone else, just with a degree in English and that would show that I'm more versatile and diverse. I still have two years to go to meet pre-requisites so I'm trying to get a head start by asking for recommendations on these forums with what would increase my chances. Which, obviously, would be more research and getting published. Got it. However, I really don't like getting discouraged, especially this early in the game. I don't think it's fair.

What is your cum UG GPA, including the CC and then Berkeley?

Because the way I am reading it, you had a 3.7 in CC, and will grad with a 3.5, indicating your perf as a jr/sr at Berkeley kinda sux...

Bottom line: your grades are weak for Stanford med. They are weak for any CA med school.

Don't worry about what it takes to get into Stanford - start worrying about what it takes to get into any medical school.

Oh, and nothing is "fair" about this process. Suck it up.

 

[DrNightingale]

What is your cum UG GPA, including the CC and then Berkeley?

Because the way I am reading it, you had a 3.7 in CC, and will grad with a 3.5, indicating your perf as a jr/sr at Berkeley kinda sux...

Bottom line: your grades are weak for Stanford med. They are weak for any CA med school.

Don't worry about what it takes to get into Stanford - start worrying about what it takes to get into any medical school.

Oh, and nothing is "fair" about this process. Suck it up.

I am sucking it up. I just felt I was dismissed right away.

As I said, I'm coming from a humanity background and have yet to take the core science courses. This means that my GPA as it stands now is subject to change within the next 2 years.

I am graduating in 2 months from Cal. My GPA will be somewhere between 3.5-3.6 when I graduate. My GPA from CC is 3.7-3.9 (I attended around 3).

Next 2 yrs will be at CSULA.

 

[drizzt3117]

I am sucking it up. I just felt I was dismissed right away.

As I said, I'm coming from a humanity background and have yet to take the core science courses. This means that my GPA as it stands now is subject to change within the next 2 years.

I am graduating in 2 months from Cal. My GPA will be somewhere between 3.5-3.6 when I graduate. My GPA from CC is 3.7-3.9 (I attended around 3).

Next 2 yrs will be at CSULA.

Let's say you get 4.0 at CSULA for two years. Assuming you had 120 units @ 3.55 and took 60 units in two years, you would be able to raise your GPA to 3.7. Then let's assume you scored in the 95% on the MCAT. Then assuming you were able to get some research opportunities and get published (easier said than done). Even if all that were to happen, you'd still be below the average GPA/MCAT of Stanford and competing against people who went to top tier research universities the whole time and had a higher GPA while doing more research. Not saying it won't happen, but you have to be realistic.

 

[DrNightingale]

Let's say you get 4.0 at CSULA for two years. Assuming you had 120 units @ 3.55 and took 60 units in two years, you would be able to raise your GPA to 3.7. Then let's assume you scored in the 95% on the MCAT. Then assuming you were able to get some research opportunities and get published (easier said than done). Even if all that were to happen, you'd still be below the average GPA/MCAT of Stanford and competing against people who went to top tier research universities the whole time and had a higher GPA while doing more research. Not saying it won't happen, but you have to be realistic.

Okay, I understand how this looks for Stanford. But in your first post you said not getting into any CA med. school at all - and with that, I have to disagree. Going off of the given stats on the school website, for example UCSD, "Year after year, our averages hover around 3.73 GPA and 33Q MCAT." Plus, I'm sure other factors may play a part, at least I hope they do.

I come from a pretty diverse cultural background and am fluent in three languages (Russian, Japanese and English). Is this the type of a thing they favor in med. schools or is this something only undergrads typically favor?

As I mentioned before, I really do welcome all of the constructive criticism and advice. So far, I've learned the importance of research (which I didn't know about as I studied the pharmaceutical field last two years and that's very clinical oriented) so I will start looking into those programs.

Someone also mentioned with my background in humanities I should look into public health research or research in medical history/anthropology. Any advice on where I may find more information on that? Or am I on my own to do the research for that one (which I don't mind)?

Thanks again.

 

[drizzt3117]

Okay, I understand how this looks for Stanford. But in your first post you said not getting into any CA med. school at all - and with that, I have to disagree. Going off of the given stats on the school website, for example UCSD, "Year after year, our averages hover around 3.73 GPA and 33Q MCAT." Plus, I'm sure other factors may play a part, at least I hope they do.

I come from a pretty diverse cultural background and am fluent in three languages (Russian, Japanese and English). Is this the type of a thing they favor in med. schools or is this something only undergrads typically favor?

As I mentioned before, I really do welcome all of the constructive criticism and advice. So far, I've learned the importance of research (which I didn't know about as I studied the pharmaceutical field last two years and that's very clinical oriented) so I will start looking into those programs.

Someone also mentioned with my background in humanities I should look into public health research or research in medical history/anthropology. Any advice on where I may find more information on that? Or am I on my own to do the research for that one (which I don't mind)?

Thanks again.

I said you should be CONCERNED about getting into any med school in CA, which you should. This past cycle about 5000 people from CA applied to med school, 2051 matriculated (~40%) and only 843 of them matriculated into a CA med school (16.8%) 32 of them matriculated into Stanford (0.64%)

The average matriculated student from CA had 3.63/32.5 (87th percentile) (into any school in the country)

 

[lord_jeebus]

I have been on an adcom at a UC medical school.

Even with a 4.0 at CSULA, the odds will not be in your favor at any CA medical school. I agree that at this point the question is not how to get into Stanford, but how to stay in-state or even how to get into any medical school.

The pharmacy stuff isn't going to help you at all.

I would suggest

Taking your science classes at a more rigorous program than CSULA - and getting as close to 4.0 as possible.

Significant clinical exposure - pharmacies don't count.

Academic research in any field you find interesting, with a publication if possible.

Most people with the stats of an average matriculant are rejected, and if your stats are only at that level, you need a significant edge.

If you really want to go to Stanford, I would suggest years of academic research with multiple publications, an advanced engineering degree with years of industry work, or something similarly accomplished. To be brutally frank, unless you are an underrepresented minority, your numbers to this point make your chances at Stanford essentially zero without this kind of experience.

 

[lord_jeebus]

I come from a pretty diverse cultural background and am fluent in three languages (Russian, Japanese and English). Is this the type of a thing they favor in med. schools or is this something only undergrads typically favor?

Unless you have overcome major adversity (eg. being a refugee, growing up amid severe inner-city violence among a family of drug abusers, surviving cancer), this sort of background is not uncommon among applicants and not a significant advantage.

 

[lord_jeebus]

Someone also mentioned with my background in humanities I should look into public health research or research in medical history/anthropology. Any advice on where I may find more information on that? Or am I on my own to do the research for that one (which I don't mind)?

I would identify researchers that do specific work that you find interesting and contact them directly. Probably easier if you stay in the Berkeley area.

 

[flip26]

I am sucking it up. I just felt I was dismissed right away.

As I said, I'm coming from a humanity background and have yet to take the core science courses. This means that my GPA as it stands now is subject to change within the next 2 years.

I am graduating in 2 months from Cal. My GPA will be somewhere between 3.5-3.6 when I graduate. My GPA from CC is 3.7-3.9 (I attended around 3).

Next 2 yrs will be at CSULA.

So your total UG GPA cumulative will be 3.5 to 3.6 when you graduate in 2 months? That means that the grades you earned at Berkeley sucked, right? Your grades at Berkeley must be in the 3.2 to 3.3 range...that is going to hurt you - the downward trend - the jolt to your GPA when you transitioned from CC to Uni.

This begs another question: what WILL your GPA be in 2 months? How can there be that large a range of possibility? You should have a better idea if it will be a 3.5 or closer to a 3.6...

Go to this current thread, a CA resident with a 3.85/32, who applied to 30 schools, had 4 interviews, and zero acceptances - this should give you some idea of the challenge you face in CA: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=7909909#post7909909

 

[DrNightingale]

So your total UG GPA cumulative will be 3.5 to 3.6 when you graduate in 2 months? That means that the grades you earned at Berkeley sucked, right?

I don't understand how you say they "sucked". They were all A's and B's. I wasn't aware those grades "sucked". I said my grades at CC were 3.7-3.9. My grades at UC were 3.5-3.6, not 3.2 or 3.3 - I don't even know where you got that number from.

This begs another question: what WILL your GPA be in 2 months? How can there be that large a range of possibility? You should have a better idea if it will be a 3.5 or closer to a 3.6...

Because this is my third and final semester at Cal. I was a Spring transfer student and this semester I'm taking 22 units. Yes, 22. The average is 13 - so you do the math. Whatever grades I get this semester will determine the 3.5-3.6 GPA range. I'm hoping if I get all A's it will be a 3.6. But if I get 2 B's it will be a 3.5. Therefore, it's hard to say. And unlike science courses, humanity majors, especially English is extremely subjective with grading so I really can't predict what I am going to be getting.

Go to this current thread, a CA resident with a 3.85/32, who applied to 30 schools, had 4 interviews, and zero acceptances - this should give you some idea of the challenge you face in CA: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=7909909#post7909909

And just like a couple of people in that thread said, numbers don't make up everything. Sure this individual's numbers shined, ECs were spectacular - but lets not forget the other portions of the application such as the recommendation letters and personal statement. I think this is one of those rare cases where he/she was rejected - you can tell by the replies in that thread how some people too are confused.

 

[DrNightingale]

Taking your science classes at a more rigorous program than CSULA - and getting as close to 4.0 as possible.

I don't know how this is possible. I would have stayed at Berkeley but, unfortunately, they don't have a post-bacc program. I can't stay in the Bay Area because of financial reasons and am moving back to Los Angeles. When I spoke to UCSD Med School, they said a community college would be fine, obviously I was surprised to hear this and kind of ignored them and decided to do a cal state instead. But this is as "rigorous" of a program as I can get to as a post-bacc. I wish other universities offered a chance for a post-bacc but they do not.

A lot of this information as helpful as it is is extremely discouraging. I was pursuing pharmacy before as mentioned and upon completion of my pharmacy technician license, I fell in love with the physician side of the medicine. I can find a way to bring pharmacy and medical school together in my application because if it wasn't for the pharmaceutical field, I wouldn't have gotten the correct exposure to medicine.

Now that I have been exposed to the field, I will volunteer and shadow for physicians and at hospitals. However, I don't necessarily feel the pharmacy experience in the past is "bad". It may show that I am a passionate person when I set my mind on things. For example, i was curious about pharmacy so I leaped into volunteering/working/learning the field... then that opened up doors to see what medicine is all about and now I am extremely curious about medical school. I love the personal interaction between doctor and patient, something a pharmacist didn't get and I like having the direct impact on individuals.

CSULA isn't the strongest school out there, there is no doubt about that. But I have completed my BA (May 2009) at a respectable school and will meet my pre-reqs at a 4-year institution instead of a community college (I am still completely confused as to why they recommended me to do this at UCSD Med School) and will volunteer/shadow/conduct research in the medical field (Yes, outside of pharmacy as you said). Hopefully, by the end of the the two years I will have built up an impressive and productive list of things to qualify me as a strong candidate for a medical school.

 

[drizzt3117]

I don't know how this is possible. I would have stayed at Berkeley but, unfortunately, they don't have a post-bacc program. I can't stay in the Bay Area because of financial reasons and am moving back to Los Angeles. When I spoke to UCSD Med School, they said a community college would be fine, obviously I was surprised to hear this and kind of ignored them and decided to do a cal state instead. But this is as "rigorous" of a program as I can get to as a post-bacc. I wish other universities offered a chance for a post-bacc but they do not.

A lot of this information as helpful as it is is extremely discouraging. I was pursuing pharmacy before as mentioned and upon completion of my pharmacy technician license, I fell in love with the physician side of the medicine. I can find a way to bring pharmacy and medical school together in my application because if it wasn't for the pharmaceutical field, I wouldn't have gotten the correct exposure to medicine.

Now that I have been exposed to the field, I will volunteer and shadow for physicians and at hospitals. However, I don't necessarily feel the pharmacy experience in the past is "bad". It may show that I am a passionate person when I set my mind on things. For example, i was curious about pharmacy so I leaped into volunteering/working/learning the field... then that opened up doors to see what medicine is all about and now I am extremely curious about medical school. I love the personal interaction between doctor and patient, something a pharmacist didn't get and I like having the direct impact on individuals.

CSULA isn't the strongest school out there, there is no doubt about that. But I have completed my BA (May 2009) at a respectable school and will meet my pre-reqs at a 4-year institution instead of a community college (I am still completely confused as to why they recommended me to do this at UCSD Med School) and will volunteer/shadow/conduct research in the medical field (Yes, outside of pharmacy as you said). Hopefully, by the end of the the two years I will have built up an impressive and productive list of things to qualify me as a strong candidate for a medical school.

There are two strong postbac programs in CA, one in the bay area and one in southern CA. You may want to check out the postbac forum for more information. I attended Scripps in Socal, which is one of the three best postbacs in the US. FWIW, Berkeley does have a postbac program, although it is mediocre.

 

[mbe36]

Call the admissions coordinator and see what they are looking for.

Express that it is your top choice.

 

[DrNightingale]

There are two strong postbac programs in CA, one in the bay area and one in southern CA. You may want to check out the postbac forum for more information. I attended Scripps in Socal, which is one of the three best postbacs in the US. FWIW, Berkeley does have a postbac program, although it is mediocre.

San Diego is quite far from LA. I actually didn't know Cal offered the post bacc program until I checked it just now (it's only two years old), but even then I wouldn't be able to go simply because I can't afford to live there now. I have a free room I can stay in in LA ^_^ So... I guess I'm just left with CSULA - as you can see.

 

[drizzt3117]

San Diego is quite far from LA. I actually didn't know Cal offered the post bacc program until I checked it just now (it's only two years old), but even then I wouldn't be able to go simply because I can't afford to live there now. I have a free room I can stay in in LA ^_^ So... I guess I'm just left with CSULA - as you can see.

Scripps College is in Claremont, not in San Diego. You're thinking of Scripps Research Institute.

 

[lord_jeebus]

I didn't mean to say the pharmacy experience will hurt you, because it won't, just that it won't give you an advantage.

If CSULA is what's available, I don't think it will be a problem for med school admissions in general - assuming you do very well.

 

[virusgirl]

DrNightingale, forgive me for being blunt, but you don't appear to be particularly open to the advice that has been given to you -- advice which you solicited.

Someone suggested that you do research in order to be competitive, and you got defensive.

Someone pointed out that your UC GPA of 3.5-3.6 is on the low end for a place like Stanford -- which is true -- and you got defensive again. You also implied that your diverse cultural background and aptitude for languages will somehow compensate for this, and it was pointed out to you that this is not the case.

I'm not sure what you hope to gain from this thread. You say Stanford is your dream school, but for you to be their dream applicant, you need to embody the things that Stanford is looking for rather than digging in your heels when people make constructive suggestions. As has been mentioned, your stats, while not bad by any means, are not very competitive for Stanford, and you need to maximize every possible aspect of your application if you want to have a shot there. I wish you luck.

 

[DrNightingale]

DrNightingale, forgive me for being blunt, but you don't appear to be particularly open to the advice that has been given to you -- advice which you solicited.

Someone suggested that you do research in order to be competitive, and you got defensive.

Someone pointed out that your UC GPA of 3.5-3.6 is on the low end for a place like Stanford -- which is true -- and you got defensive again. You also implied that your diverse cultural background and aptitude for languages will somehow compensate for this, and it was pointed out to you that this is not the case.

I'm not sure what you hope to gain from this thread. You say Stanford is your dream school, but for you to be their dream applicant, you need to embody the things that Stanford is looking for rather than digging in your heels when people make constructive suggestions. As has been mentioned, your stats, while not bad by any means, are not very competitive for Stanford, and you need to maximize every possible aspect of your application if you want to have a shot there. I wish you luck.

Clearly you either haven't read everything I've typed or you're misinterpreting what I have typed up. I do embody and embrace the constructive criticism given but I'm not going to take in everything and bow and agree. So with the things I am doubtful over I ask why and how and bring up examples of how the suggestions or statements may be wrong. I don't think that's being defensive, I'm just being curious and hesitant to take in anything as legit advice - until I've brought up my doubts and they are resolved.

I also do plan to maximize every aspect of my application but seriously, I am pretty much a "fresh" egg with this, which is why I came here - to figure out what are some of the things the schools look for as ECs and side research. This is why in several of my posts I thanked everyone for their input and emphasized the fact that I will focus heavily on doing research prior to applying.

As someone else mentioned, I now realize that getting into *any* california medical school will be difficult so now I have to rearrange my priorities school-wise and life-wise in my head and tackle the post-bacc from a new angle.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

Heres some constructive criticism....Listen to the people above...most of them have been successful in this before. Drizz knows what hes talking about.

Stanford is a reach, but not out of your reach if you start to really shine. I wouldnt count on it though.

 

[aebvd97]

1. Stop being defensive. You asked for constructive criticism, and you're getting it. Take it.

2. Don't go into the application service dead set on one school. I really thought I liked one school before applying, only to learn during interview season that I found at least 3 schools more appealing. Go in with an open mind..some schools will really surprise you. It's great to have Stanford as a dream school, but there are plenty of others on par with Stanford that you may like much more...

 

[drizzt3117]

1. Stop being defensive. You asked for constructive criticism, and you're getting it. Take it.

2. Don't go into the application service dead set on one school. I really thought I liked one school before applying, only to learn during interview season that I found at least 3 schools more appealing. Go in with an open mind..some schools will really surprise you. It's great to have Stanford as a dream school, but there are plenty of others on par with Stanford that you may like much more...

Yeah, I had a school set as my overwhelming top choice and ended up getting in and going elsewhere in a totally different geographic area. Surprising things happen in the cycle.

 

[DrNightingale]

1. Stop being defensive. You asked for constructive criticism, and you're getting it. Take it.

2. Don't go into the application service dead set on one school. I really thought I liked one school before applying, only to learn during interview season that I found at least 3 schools more appealing. Go in with an open mind..some schools will really surprise you. It's great to have Stanford as a dream school, but there are plenty of others on par with Stanford that you may like much more...

I just said in my other post I wasn't getting defensive and that I'm taking the advice given. Otherwise I would just say no, you're all wrong and I'm going to keep doing my thing.

I also said that I realized how difficult it is to get a California Med. School in general. i don't know why everyone is thinking I'm out to bark at anyone. I really am taking everyone's advice to heart. And yes, i agree there are other schools apart from Stanford but that's me shooting for the moon and then I'll end up among the stars. That is all.

 

[Brent8927]

Hey DrNightingale,.

It is always good to be realistic, which it seems everyone responding to you is doing. But I think it’s just as important to dream and hope, and it sounds like you’re not letting others sometimes harsh (but good) advice get you down. But I think that if you’re determined enough, and are patient (it could take more than one year of applying) then I think you definitely have a shot at achieving your dreams.

Two years at CSULA is enough time to really turn things around—if you’re focused. In two years I went from a guy who wasn’t even considering medical school (and thus had no experience or EC’s, and some low science grades) to a guy who became a relatively competitive applicant. FYI, I did this in a formal post-bac program, and if you’re eligible I would recommend you consider Scripps and other programs in the area.

If you don’t mind me asking, why is Stanford your dream school? A lot of people have dream schools because of the name and their impression of the school, but I’ve known quite a few people, including my best friend from high school who is now at UPenn, who really wish they would have thought less about the prestige and name a school carries and looked more into whether the curriculum, location, student body, etc. were a good match for them. I used to work at UCSF, and plenty of their residents came from smaller-name schools—it’s always easier to perform well in a lesser-known program that you are happy at vs. a well-known program that you ‘re miserable at.

From what I hear, Stanford is mostly worth considering if you really want to be a researcher, professor, or a surgeon general. If you’re interested in primary care on the other hand, generally big-name schools are not ideal places to go (though UCSF ranks well in research and primary care, but I think it’s the only big-name school that does).

I agree with the others that if Stanford is your goal, more research experience is key. As much as possible in fact. And some public policy/leadership positions would probably help a lot too. A’s at CSULA is a definite, as well as a strong MCAT. I don’t know of research projects or programs that recruit student volunteers in the LA area, but there are plenty in the Bay Area: NASA AMES Research Center, Children’s Hospital Oakland Research Institute, UCSF, UC Berkeley, etc. There should be plenty of similar places down in LA, and there are definitely a lot of medical schools in the area. Lots of researchers are willing to take unpaid volunteers (that can commit), and you just have to ask the PI. If they say no, there are generally tons of other PI’s at a medical research facility who would be happy to have a volunteer. It helps to have taken some science courses, otherwise they might just assign you to cleaning glassware and ordering supplies—but that’s still a start!

You also want to stand out somehow, because most people applying to Stanford will also have research and leadership experience, as well as high GPA’s and a high MCAT. You’re an English Literature major, so that could be one of your strengths. Have you entered/won any literary contests? Has any of your literary work been published, including in literary journals? I don’t know if non-medically-related things impress Stanford, but it sure impressed my UCLA interviewer that I was a photo major and we chatted about photography and African Safaris for about half an hour.

What I’m trying to say is, make sure you don’t give up on some of your current strengths while you’re trying to strengthen the other aspects of your application.

I think your pharmacy experience does help, at least a bit, because it gives you some exposure to a profession that you’d be working with as a physician. But other than making an income (which is very important) I personally don’t think more pharmacy experience is going to help since you’ve already had that initial exposure. If you don’t need the money, I would recommend not working and instead dedicating that time to studying and spending more time in research labs, etc.

Also, make sure to talk to your pre-med advisor, since his/her advice is probably better than mine!

Good luck!

-Brent

 

[DrNightingale]

Hey DrNightingale,.

It is always good to be realistic, which it seems everyone responding to you is doing. But I think it’s just as important to dream and hope, and it sounds like you’re not letting others sometimes harsh (but good) advice get you down. But I think that if you’re determined enough, and are patient (it could take more than one year of applying) then I think you definitely have a shot at achieving your dreams.

Two years at CSULA is enough time to really turn things around—if you’re focused. In two years I went from a guy who wasn’t even considering medical school (and thus had no experience or EC’s, and some low science grades) to a guy who became a relatively competitive applicant. FYI, I did this in a formal post-bac program, and if you’re eligible I would recommend you consider Scripps and other programs in the area.

If you don’t mind me asking, why is Stanford your dream school? A lot of people have dream schools because of the name and their impression of the school, but I’ve known quite a few people, including my best friend from high school who is now at UPenn, who really wish they would have thought less about the prestige and name a school carries and looked more into whether the curriculum, location, student body, etc. were a good match for them. I used to work at UCSF, and plenty of their residents came from smaller-name schools—it’s always easier to perform well in a lesser-known program that you are happy at vs. a well-known program that you ‘re miserable at.

From what I hear, Stanford is mostly worth considering if you really want to be a researcher, professor, or a surgeon general. If you’re interested in primary care on the other hand, generally big-name schools are not ideal places to go (though UCSF ranks well in research and primary care, but I think it’s the only big-name school that does).

I agree with the others that if Stanford is your goal, more research experience is key. As much as possible in fact. And some public policy/leadership positions would probably help a lot too. A’s at CSULA is a definite, as well as a strong MCAT. I don’t know of research projects or programs that recruit student volunteers in the LA area, but there are plenty in the Bay Area: NASA AMES Research Center, Children’s Hospital Oakland Research Institute, UCSF, UC Berkeley, etc. There should be plenty of similar places down in LA, and there are definitely a lot of medical schools in the area. Lots of researchers are willing to take unpaid volunteers (that can commit), and you just have to ask the PI. If they say no, there are generally tons of other PI’s at a medical research facility who would be happy to have a volunteer. It helps to have taken some science courses, otherwise they might just assign you to cleaning glassware and ordering supplies—but that’s still a start!

You also want to stand out somehow, because most people applying to Stanford will also have research and leadership experience, as well as high GPA’s and a high MCAT. You’re an English Literature major, so that could be one of your strengths. Have you entered/won any literary contests? Has any of your literary work been published, including in literary journals? I don’t know if non-medically-related things impress Stanford, but it sure impressed my UCLA interviewer that I was a photo major and we chatted about photography and African Safaris for about half an hour.

What I’m trying to say is, make sure you don’t give up on some of your current strengths while you’re trying to strengthen the other aspects of your application.

I think your pharmacy experience does help, at least a bit, because it gives you some exposure to a profession that you’d be working with as a physician. But other than making an income (which is very important) I personally don’t think more pharmacy experience is going to help since you’ve already had that initial exposure. If you don’t need the money, I would recommend not working and instead dedicating that time to studying and spending more time in research labs, etc.

Also, make sure to talk to your pre-med advisor, since his/her advice is probably better than mine!

Good luck!

-Brent

Wow. This was fantastic. Thank you so very much for this information - this is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you for giving me hope, great advice and information. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

 

[DrNightingale]

So after thoroughly reading everybody's responses and considering my options, I have grown very intrigued with the Scripps pre-med programs. I know some of you have attended it - how competitive is it to get in if it is someone with my background? (UC GPA 3.5 CC GPA 3.8 Volunteer/Shadow/work in pharmacy and hospitals)? I have to take the GRE as I never took the SAT though, but could you please tell me how difficult gaining admission to Scripps is from personal experience?

Thank you.

 

[drizzt3117]

So after thoroughly reading everybody's responses and considering my options, I have grown very intrigued with the Scripps pre-med programs. I know some of you have attended it - how competitive is it to get in if it is someone with my background? (UC GPA 3.5 CC GPA 3.8 Volunteer/Shadow/work in pharmacy and hospitals)? I have to take the GRE as I never took the SAT though, but could you please tell me how difficult gaining admission to Scripps is from personal experience?

Thank you.

It's difficult and the application cycle is closed for 2009 admission... call Jodi in admissions and she can tell you about your chances, I think the average GPA for accepted students is ~3.6-3.7 and the average SAT is ~1300 on a 1600 scale. Scripps has a class of 15 and usually about 150-200 people apply for those 15 spots. If you're going to apply there you can't have any of the prereqs done. If you did a year of clinical/research work and were accepted to and finished the 1 year postbac with good grades (i.e. 4.0) and scored well on the MCAT, it would greatly help your chances of getting into CA schools though. Nearly everyone in the program who didn't link to med school received acceptance in a CA school the last few years.

 

[DrNightingale]

It's difficult and the application cycle is closed for 2009 admission... call Jodi in admissions and she can tell you about your chances, I think the average GPA for accepted students is ~3.6-3.7 and the average SAT is ~1300 on a 1600 scale. Scripps has a class of 15 and usually about 150-200 people apply for those 15 spots. If you're going to apply there you can't have any of the prereqs done. If you did a year of clinical/research work and were accepted to and finished the 1 year postbac with good grades (i.e. 4.0) and scored well on the MCAT, it would greatly help your chances of getting into CA schools though. Nearly everyone in the program who didn't link to med school received acceptance in a CA school the last few years.

Yeah, I was going to apply for the 2010 program and hopefully spend a bit of time to boost up my GPA from 3.5. I never took the SAT so I'll also be studying for GREs. And I already left her a message earlier today after reading your thread on Scripps. It sounds like a wonderful opportunity.. I'm just nervous I won't be good enough.. any tips aside from taking classes to boost up my GPA and increase volunteering hours at hospitals?

Btw - taking calculus is okay right? Because under the FAQ section of the website it said it's okay to take it but not required, otherwise I'd be stuck taking it with physics and calculus at the same time.

And I should apply as soon as the apps are open in September right? Is it on rolling bases, by chance?

Thanks <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

 

[drizzt3117]

Yeah, I was going to apply for the 2010 program and hopefully spend a bit of time to boost up my GPA from 3.5. I never took the SAT so I'll also be studying for GREs. And I already left her a message earlier today after reading your thread on Scripps. It sounds like a wonderful opportunity.. I'm just nervous I won't be good enough.. any tips aside from taking classes to boost up my GPA and increase volunteering hours at hospitals?

Btw - taking calculus is okay right? Because under the FAQ section of the website it said it's okay to take it but not required, otherwise I'd be stuck taking it with physics and calculus at the same time.

And I should apply as soon as the apps are open in September right? Is it on rolling bases, by chance?

Thanks <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

Yes you can take calculus. I would apply as soon as possible, yes it is on rolling. You can take all the math you want, just don't take any of the courses in the program which are gen chem, physics, intro bio, physiology, and ochem.

 

[Handy388]

Hello,

I'd like to get straight to the point and present you with facts and figures. I am graduating from UC Berkeley as an English Literature major with a GPA of 3.5 this May. I am a transfer student from California community colleges with a GPA of around 3.7-3.8.

My plan is to attend Cal State Univ L.A. for the next two years to meet pre-reqs for the medical school. Aside from attending school, I plan to work as a pharmacy technician (already licensed).

I have been a member of a pre-pharmacy club for the past year at UC Berkeley, have shadowed and volunteered at pharmacies.

Aside from the obvious such as getting a 4.0 GPA from Cal State and scoring wonderfully on MCAT, what can I do to increase my chances of getting accepted to Stanford? Are there research projects or programs that recruit student volunteers? Should I volunteer in hospitals? Should I shadow more?

Clearly, I'm very ambitious and motivated so any advice given will be taken with a grain of salt and after consideration will be applied to my schedule and life. So I beg you to please give me constructive advice and criticism, only!

Thank you very much.

to give you an idea where you at.

I was a transfer student to UC Berkeley, my CC GPA is 4.0, my UC GPA is around 3.5 but has a 3.8ish in premed classes.

have four years of scientific research, multiple posters and abstracts at world famous labs

have a MCAT score around 38

I have applied to all the CA schools except Loma Linda

only one interview from UCSD, felt school was not a good fit, withdrew, and in the end got into a top 20 school in the east coast.

I have applied to 30 schools, 9 interviews, 6 waitlists, 3 acceptances.

Stanford did not even interview me.

 

[kevenka]

woah... Med school sounds real tough =/
I know GPA appears very crucial (as well as research, but have you guys already answered what would be the minimum gpa average to even compete?)

 

[ChairmanMao]

Yeah, I was going to apply for the 2010 program and hopefully spend a bit of time to boost up my GPA from 3.5. I never took the SAT so I'll also be studying for GREs. And I already left her a message earlier today after reading your thread on Scripps. It sounds like a wonderful opportunity.. I'm just nervous I won't be good enough.. any tips aside from taking classes to boost up my GPA and increase volunteering hours at hospitals?

Btw - taking calculus is okay right? Because under the FAQ section of the website it said it's okay to take it but not required, otherwise I'd be stuck taking it with physics and calculus at the same time.

And I should apply as soon as the apps are open in September right? Is it on rolling bases, by chance?

Thanks <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

Applying to a competitive post-bac program should give you a taste of what it's like to apply to medical school. As drizzt says, some of these programs are very competitive, accepting only 15-60 students out of 150-250 who apply, and usually, accepted students have an overall GPA greater than 3.6 and a GRE score of 700 on both the math and verbal portion. The upside is that once you get into one of these post-bac programs, if you're able to maintain your grades and do well enough on the MCAT (32 or higher) the linkage that the post-bac program has with medical schools should at the very least get you into a medical school (perhaps not in CA, but you'll still get in somewhere).

One other thing that I noticed is the downward trend from when you transferred out of community college. A 3.5-3.7 per se isn't a bad grade, it's just that you have a negative downward trend, which will raise some red flags with the admissions committee. Usually, medical schools are very keen on how you handle advanced courses in your junior and senior year (since those better reflect your performance in medical school) and may consider someone who's grades went down from a 3.7 to a 3.5 as a risk in that you're performance decreased when you transferred out of community college (most admissions committee seem to regard community college grading as more lenient than 4 year colleges). Your downward GPA trend will unfortunately confirm that bias in their minds.

Also, you mentioned that you haven't taken the science courses yet. I would caution you to be very careful with your grades from now on since science courses, especially organic chemistry, physics, and biology are graded much more harshly than humanities courses. If you do get accepted to a post-bac program, really focus on doing well and maintaining a good GPA because a further slip (going from a 3.5 to a 3.3) would also certainly mean the kiss of death from the admissions committee at any medical school that reviews your application.