Tips on dealing w/ disrespect?

[Uisa]

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Hey guys,

First off, I know the title makes me sound like I'm going to whine about a little disrespect I got in the OR, but rest assured I will approach this in a different manner.

While I never felt this way when I was a medical student, now that I am a resident in anesthesia, more and more I feel that our field is looked upon as "ancillary staff". Now, I have done my share of research on this forum and knew that this sentiment is nothing new. However, as much as I do not want to let comments like "are you a nurse anesthetist?" or actions from OR staff/surgeons that completely disregards your space/equipment bother me too much, it sometimes is insulting to the effort I put in everyday to provide best care for my patients. This treatment on top of the tongue-lashing I sometimes get from my attendings really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's almost as if respect is forbidden for an anesthesiologist.

On the flip side, I do enjoy what I do on a daily basis and, thankfully, have done well on all of my exams up to this point. I enjoy the technical aspects of our field as well as the medical knowledge we apply based on real time data. It's also an added bonus when patients thank you for providing good anesthetic at the end of the case 🙂

All in all, I won't let this deter me from what I'm currently trying to achieve, but wanted your opinions about how to deal with the disrespect. Does it get any better once you're out of residency? Is it different in PP vs academia? Any tips on dealing with it? I've been trying to keep my mouth shut about this, but I have to admit it is a bit of an ego bruise having to deal with this frequently. Thanks guys

 

[Nivens]

I can't answer your questions, but I can reiterate you aren't alone in feeling this way.

Hang in there.

 

[leaverus]

it's different in pp (mostly) (and I guess depending on whether youre male or female based on what female colleagues have told me); and there's always gonna be a few surgeons who'll think you should be genuflecting every time they enter the room. but in general, I've got no complaints about lack of respect. actually, now that I think of it, I don't really remembering encountering that in residency either, so either I've got a poor memory or you've got much thinner skin than i

 

[Mman]

It's just kinda part of the job. Obviously not fun and inappropriate at times, but to some extent you have to develop your own strategy to deal with it. Maybe just use humor to correct people, whatever works for you.

Personally I just remind myself that I've got the best job in the world and it's not my fault if they don't know.

 

[Nivens]

it's different in pp (mostly) (and I guess depending on whether youre male or female based on what female colleagues have told me); and there's always gonna be a few surgeons who'll think you should be genuflecting every time they enter the room. but in general, I've got no complaints about lack of respect. actually, now that I think of it, I don't really remembering encountering that in residency either, so either I've got a poor memory or you've got much thinner skin than i

One of the circulators at my shop handles this brilliantly. Whenever the interventionalist walks into the room, he announces (loudly and sarcastically) "All arise!"

 

[Aether2000]

I felt the same way early on, and felt the need for somebody, anybody, to recognize the profession was composed of doctors that had completed a residency and provided a valuable service to the patients. As time went on, I recognized much of what we do is technicians work, but the real joy is in taking a person who is scared witless about both the anesthesia and surgery, calming them down and actually having them laughing and joking on the way to the OR and as they go off to sleep or have a block, then taking the best care we can of the patient no matter what happens in surgery.
There will always be surgeons who are OCD, borderline schizophrenic, or with severe personality disorders, so part of the finesse comes about in learning to deal with their concerns and behavior, separating real threats to patients from those fantasized by the surgeon. As Winston Churchill said, 'Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.'
In general the OR staff does not care if you are a physician, CRNA, AA, or janitor giving the anesthesia, as long as you are pleasant to work with and occasionally helping them out when you can. We are fortunate in that we are in a field that has few post operative complications that occur more than an hour after surgery that we have to deal with. We do our jobs, go home, relax and enjoy life, and usually don't have to worry about the calls at 4 am for pain medications or some horrific late complication that occurred because of our administration of anesthesia. Life is good!

 

[Iso4ane]

You can always 'think out loud' in a respectful way. It not the turning of the dials that makes us the big bucks, its knowing when. A lot of how we do things is often taken for granted, even the simplest things we do can have very good reasons, that people don't think of, and if you tell them why it shows them you are detail oriented.

For example, one that comes up often is related to the pulse oximeter. I pretty much always place it on the ring finger of the hand/arm with the IV (when possible). The BP cuff will go on the other arm (or leg) so it doesn't interfere with either the IV or the pulse ox; and what finger do people like to scratch their eye/nose with? Not that it bothers me enough that I would replace one that is already on the index finger, but if its falling off or it's one of the clippy types, i just quickly switch it over, and talk aloud about it to the patient (and nurse if they're around).

 

[Noyac]

I haven't read all of the comments but I can respond on a few points.
First, if you sit back and let nurses do your work for you then you "may" find that the respect you may or may not deserve is missing. If you are not present then they will have a difficult time understanding what you bring to the table.
Secondly, as someone pointed out, PP can be different. It is at my gig for sure. My group is extensively involved in just about every aspect of pt care in my facility.
We have a member on every single committee that matters. And anesthesiologists are notoriously savy and well informed, not to mention damn intelligent. Once you or your partners sit in on these sometimes difficult meetings you will see how things change. I sat in one for 4hrs this morning. Yes. 4hrs. My partners had to cover for me too. But not one of them thought they were getting a raw deal. It is important.

 

[Car-e-monda]

.

 

[Ignatius J]

Unless it affects me or the patient directly, which is about .01% of "disrespect" incidents, I just ignore and move on.

 

[teeva]

Unlike some things in life, it does get better when you finish residency.

I came from a residency program where we anesthesia residents were universally treated like dirt by all except for a few of our own anesthesia attendings and a few anesthesia resident colleagues. Nowadays in my practice everyone universally treats everyone else with respect and dignity. As a resident I never knew it could be this good because I didn't know otherwise.

As residents we mostly kept our mouth shut. No point in complaining or trying to educate or win over anyone. Teaching old dogs new tricks is futile.

Just ignore it. Start counting down the days and know that there is an end to it.

 

[pgg]

Anesthesia has its issues with being viewed as an ancillary service, true, but big part of what you're experiencing is simply because you're in training.


I practiced as a generalist for 7 years after residency before returning for fellowship.

I endure more **** from periop RNs and scrub techs now as a fellow than I ever did as an attending ... despite the fact that ~8 months into fellowship I have become a more knowledgeable, better skilled, stronger anesthesiologist. It's not you. It's them.

But the bottom line is that I'm a trainee. I'm a transient without power to affect the work, lives, or careers of anyone in the room.


It'll get better when you're done. (If it doesn't, it might be that you're in the wrong practice.)


Things to do now:
1) Keep your head down. You don't have to be a doormat, but being assertive is often more trouble than it's worth. There's a price to pay for every verbal altercation, even the ones you "win" ...
2) Observe your attendings. Some meekly put up with small affronts and unprofessionalisms from periops, scrubs, and surgeons ... some don't. Decide which kind you want to be, and emulate them. You'll find that they share some traits - obvious skill, constant calm, clear voices, never angry, never loud.

 

[ryanjmy]

Some good advice in this thread. Disrespect is part of paying your dues as a resident. You can fight it but you risk being labeled the problem resident.

It's way better as an attending. As an example one day in the heart room I checked the underlying rythem in a paced pt. It was asystole. The surgeon got pissed and started yelling at the crna. I told him I did it. He apologized for yelling on the spot. I told him I was cool with him yelling at the crna anytime I did something he didn't like.

If you want to be respected work hard to become really good at what you do. There are weak attending in every specialty that nobody respects, don't be that guy.

 

[GA8314]

We are PP but work with residents. Our CRNAs are employed by our group. Our culture is "pinch me" good on the surgeon front. It was actually a shock coming from where I trained.
We are 95% supervision, 5% sitting cases. I assure you that when I am with a new CA2 on a difficult case, or new to cardiac, I am in the room a lot if not almost the entire time, at first.

There is for sure a difference in the "respect" aspect depending on where you practice, and the overall structure of things. Having said that, no, we are not the hotshot surgeons. We provide a service to other physicians. It is what it is.

I think a smaller/medium sized place can be easier to get to know people and for them to get to know you. IMO, most people you will interact with will know the value of a good anesthesiologist. For sure. It's only a matter of time, and when this happens, your "street cred" goes way up. We've all been there.

Again, it depends a lot on the culture of your hospital even. Larger cultural issues (East coast versus West etc.) come into play too, but it can come down to your hospital or system as well.

If you do what you do well, you will earn respect. But, don't expect to be genuflected upon entering the room. We are not that profession.

What shocked me is that even our most "entitled" ortho joints guys are nothing like where I trained. So, location matters. This much I know.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

To quote one of the finest movies of 1999:

"Y'know, {residency} is no picnic. I have a client in there right now. He says the trick is: kick someone's ass the first day, or become someone's bitch."

 

[Noyac]

To quote one of the finest movies of 1999:

"Y'know, {residency} is no picnic. I have a client in there right now. He says the trick is: kick someone's ass the first day, or become someone's bitch."

That's one way to do it.
When I got to my current gig I was fairly green when it comes to interpersonal relationships in the OR. There was this very seasoned vascular surgeon who was know to attack at the drop of a hat. He wasn't a bad guy just old school and he thought his **** didn't stink. So I found a vulnerable area and slowly made light of it. Not to direct or scathing but I got his attention too. We are now good buddies in the OR. We can jab at each other with out hurting anyone's feelings.
That and doing good work basically brought the respect that might have otherwise taken longer since I was a young buck back then.

 

[Man o War]

That's one way to do it.
When I got to my current gig I was fairly green when it comes to interpersonal relationships in the OR. There was this very seasoned vascular surgeon who was know to attack at the drop of a hat. He wasn't a bad guy just old school and he thought his **** didn't stink. So I found a vulnerable area and slowly made light of it. Not to direct or scathing but I got his attention too. We are now good buddies in the OR. We can jab at each other with out hurting anyone's feelings.
That and doing good work basically brought the respect that might have otherwise taken longer since I was a young buck back then.

This. Get their patients through a surgical complication and you will earn your place at their table. It takes a while with some of them, but they know when you've saved their butt.
I had a partner once whose method of dealing with this was totally passive aggressive- he would take his sweet time with turnovers and cancel certain surgeons' cases for stupid reasons. He couldn't check his ego. I don't recommend that approach.

 

[GA8314]

Work hard, hustle, bring value (that can mean speed/efficiency, high skill set (TEE, Regional), simply look alive and bring good patient care and even if never acknowledged in person, it will be implicit.

The surgeons see enough variation in Docs and CRNA's to understand in a short period of time whom the players are. Again, this is a bit easier at a smaller to medium sized facility. Larger, tertiary care facilities are harder for this to happen because of the infrequency with which you work with people. I'm sure it still happens, but I can see it taking 2-3x the time.

 

[urge]

Here is my tip: Graduate.

Half your problems will go away.

Want to get rid of the other half? : Become THE MAN they call for every messed up situation. Takes years to get there, so don't start whining.

 

[deleted171991]

Want to get rid of the other half? : Become THE MAN they call for every messed up situation. Takes years to get there, so don't start whining.

QED. This specialty tends to attract not-so-nice people.

Respect is about the person being given to, and has to be earned, but (lack of) politeness is mostly about the education and upbringing of the person speaking.

@Uisa, the solution is to create an "ignore" list in your mind. Always be polite and professional, but keep all verbal exchanges with the deplorables to the necessary minimum. Like on the forum.

 

[Planktonmd]

I haven't read all of the comments but I can respond on a few points.
First, if you sit back and let nurses do your work for you then you "may" find that the respect you may or may not deserve is missing. If you are not present then they will have a difficult time understanding what you bring to the table.
Secondly, as someone pointed out, PP can be different. It is at my gig for sure. My group is extensively involved in just about every aspect of pt care in my facility.
We have a member on every single committee that matters. And anesthesiologists are notoriously savy and well informed, not to mention damn intelligent. Once you or your partners sit in on these sometimes difficult meetings you will see how things change. I sat in one for 4hrs this morning. Yes. 4hrs. My partners had to cover for me too. But not one of them thought they were getting a raw deal. It is important.

Man your group is the exception not the rule! The overwhelming majority of these new guys are going to spend the rest of their careers working with nurses and being compared to them. Unfortunately many of them did not understand the magnitude of the problem with this field or chose to ignore all the red flags.

 

[GA8314]

Man your group is the exception not the rule! The overwhelming majority of these new guys are going to spend the rest of their careers working with nurses and being compared to them. Unfortunately many of them did not understand the magnitude of the problem with this field or chose to ignore all the red flags.

Plank, that's what every group should aspire to. We are, in many ways, like that. We serve on committees, take on special roles in projects, and stay involved in hospital politics. This is how you succeed. I also know plenty of similar groups. It's the only way to be successful.

Guaranteed to succeed. No. No guarantees.

 

[nimbus]

Plank, that's what every group should aspire to. We are, in many ways, like that. We serve on committees, take on special roles in projects, and stay involved in hospital politics. This is how you succeed. I also know plenty of similar groups. It's the only way to be successful.

Guaranteed to succeed. No. No guarantees.

Yep absolutely no guarantees. These guys were pillars of the community, involved in multiple committees, numerous projects, academics, still got the boot.

http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20170210/NEWS/170219988

 

[Consigliere]

Here's how I deal with disrespect....

 

[BLTxtmayo]

Hey guys,

First off, I know the title makes me sound like I'm going to whine about a little disrespect I got in the OR, but rest assured I will approach this in a different manner.

While I never felt this way when I was a medical student, now that I am a resident in anesthesia, more and more I feel that our field is looked upon as "ancillary staff". Now, I have done my share of research on this forum and knew that this sentiment is nothing new. However, as much as I do not want to let comments like "are you a nurse anesthetist?" or actions from OR staff/surgeons that completely disregards your space/equipment bother me too much, it sometimes is insulting to the effort I put in everyday to provide best care for my patients. This treatment on top of the tongue-lashing I sometimes get from my attendings really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's almost as if respect is forbidden for an anesthesiologist.

On the flip side, I do enjoy what I do on a daily basis and, thankfully, have done well on all of my exams up to this point. I enjoy the technical aspects of our field as well as the medical knowledge we apply based on real time data. It's also an added bonus when patients thank you for providing good anesthetic at the end of the case 🙂

All in all, I won't let this deter me from what I'm currently trying to achieve, but wanted your opinions about how to deal with the disrespect. Does it get any better once you're out of residency? Is it different in PP vs academia? Any tips on dealing with it? I've been trying to keep my mouth shut about this, but I have to admit it is a bit of an ego bruise having to deal with this frequently. Thanks guys

I feel you, I'm starting out too. I've been interning at a hospital for almost a year now and I've noticed some things. Some of the surgeons and doctors won't like you right away, but after a few months they will warm up to you. Once they know your face and have been through it with you and know you're gonna stick around. You have to earn respect and prove yourself. Always be polite and respectful, but stand up for yourself. Weird and confusing line to walk, I know. I found if I've done something that a MD isn't happy with and I get critized for it a simple "Yes sir/ma'am No sir/ ma'am" goes a long way in curtailing the abuse. That simple act of respect seems to allow them to show you some sympathy and has opened a lot of doors for me as far as Doctors showing me how to do complicated procedures and treating me like I'm LEARNING. Don't act like a boss who knows everything and demand to be treated as an equal. You're not an equal to the guy whose had his knuckles deep in pericardium since before you could use a toilet. They see a lot of people come and go. Not surprisingly, a lot of people don't cut it in the medical field. Being able to accept that you don't know everything and might possibly not be doing something right (even if you are) goes a long way. It's been an effort in sucking up my pride, that's for sure. I just think, in 20 years from now, am I gonna be the person who someone is learning from and how am I gonna act and feel? Am I gonna give clear direction or be a dick? Who would I have more empathy for? The med student who thinks they know everything or the person whose open to critiscism and isn't too prideful to say "Yes, okay show me a better way"

 

[anbuitachi]

There are a lot of issues in our field w regards to respect. First we work w surgeons, who are often demanding and egotistic, which is often the opposite of the anesthesiologist. So the OR staff will try to please the surgeon before they please you because they know it'll be more of a pain dealing with an unhappy demanding/egotistic surgeon. But in general i find OR staff other than surgeon respects the anesthesiologist or at least doesn't disrespect us.

With regard to disrespectful surgeons. if they disrespect you, just disrespect them back. Dont let them bully you, if you do it only perpetuate the behavior. When the surgeon goes "Patient is moving!" during the final stitches of a general case, dont say 'Sorry' or some BS like that. My attending just responds with "Good". If the surgeon complains about the patient moving during a non general case cause they wanted to do it under sedation, just tell them "patient isn't paralyzed". We work as a team, and disrespect got no place on the team.

In terms of other forms of verbal abuse, either abuse them back, or ignore them if you dont think its worth the effort.

We don't exactly help ourselves out either. We allow others to call us stuff like "anesthesia". If you dont know our name, at least ask or even call us anesthesiologist. Anesthesia means "loss of feeling in a person's body or part of the body through the use of drugs". When you talk to the surgeon or when OR staff talk to surgeons, do you hear them calling them Bovie or something? Do you call a nephrolost "kidney"?


And I'm not sure if this is everywhere but often times where I'm at, the anesthesiologist is also tasked with doing nursing work, like charting things. We chart things like in ortho cases, tourniquet up, tourniquet down. In Flaps, eg flap ischemia time, microscope begins; throat pack in, throat pack out; etc etc. We don't make surgeons do surgery and dictate it at the same time.. yet for some reason we are supposed to chart those little things.

 

[Ignatius J]

There are a lot of issues in our field w regards to respect. First we work w surgeons, who are often demanding and egotistic, which is often the opposite of the anesthesiologist. So the OR staff will try to please the surgeon before they please you because they know it'll be more of a pain dealing with an unhappy demanding/egotistic surgeon. But in general i find OR staff other than surgeon respects the anesthesiologist or at least doesn't disrespect us.

With regard to disrespectful surgeons. if they disrespect you, just disrespect them back. Dont let them bully you, if you do it only perpetuate the behavior. When the surgeon goes "Patient is moving!" during the final stitches of a general case, dont say 'Sorry' or some BS like that. My attending just responds with "Good". If the surgeon complains about the patient moving during a non general case cause they wanted to do it under sedation, just tell them "patient isn't paralyzed". We work as a team, and disrespect got no place on the team.

In terms of other forms of verbal abuse, either abuse them back, or ignore them if you dont think its worth the effort.

We don't exactly help ourselves out either. We allow others to call us stuff like "anesthesia". If you dont know our name, at least ask or even call us anesthesiologist. Anesthesia means "loss of feeling in a person's body or part of the body through the use of drugs". When you talk to the surgeon or when OR staff talk to surgeons, do you hear them calling them Bovie or something? Do you call a nephrolost "kidney"?


And I'm not sure if this is everywhere but often times where I'm at, the anesthesiologist is also tasked with doing nursing work, like charting things. We chart things like in ortho cases, tourniquet up, tourniquet down. In Flaps, eg flap ischemia time, microscope begins; throat pack in, throat pack out; etc etc. We don't make surgeons do surgery and dictate it at the same time.. yet for some reason we are supposed to chart those little things.

With all due respect, you catch a lot more flies with honey than vinegar.

If someone calls me "anesthesia", I just ignore them and focus on the task at hand. If they say the patient is moving, I have no problem explaining to them what I will do to cease the movement. I ask about the surgeons' and nurses' families. I small talk. I do scutwork that I don't have to if the circulator isn't as fast or preoccupied as others. I allow a stressed nurse to say something snide without engaging them further. I allow a surgeon to vent. I reach "collaborative" decisions about patient care. Every now and then I'll have to say something and confront an issue but it is exceedingly rare.

Oddly enough- it is a rare occasion when I feel mistreated. Personability, professionalism, and being human goes a long ways. There will always be difficult personalities. I just learn to ignore what I don't like. It's hard to do but worth the practice.

 

[anbuitachi]

With all due respect, You catch a lot more flies with honey than vinegar.

If someone calls me "anesthesia", I just ignore them and focus on The task at hand. If they say the patient is moving, I have no problem explaining to them what I will do to cease the movement. I ask about the surgeons' and nurses' families. I small talk. I do scutwork that I don't have to if the circulator isn't as fast or preoccupied as others. I allow a stressed nurse to say something snide without engaging them further. I allow a surgeon to vent. I reach "collaborative" decisions about patient care. Every now and then I'll have to say something and confront an issue but it is exceedingly rare.

Oddly enough- it is a rare occasion when I feel mistreated. Personability, professionalism, and being human goes a long ways. There will always be difficult personalities. I just learn to ignore what I don't like.

Ya. Thats why no one treats our field with respect. No wonder its dying. Let's just keep ignoring the problems. Mistreat us? No probs, i'll just sweet talk and ignore it. Lower our salary? No probs, i'll give you some honey to go with it

W that said, im totally cool w a Surgeon venting. As long as its not disrespectful. he can curse at anyone who isn't in the room all he wants. And i'm willing to help nurses out too, but i dont want to be expected to do it as if its now my job. I often go get the blood on the other side of the room myself, or get containers myself for the urine when patient is stable and im not preoccupied, etc

W that said I'm against anyone disrespecting anyone as I think it harms patient care and teamwork. Same w patients disrespecting anesthesiologists.

 

[anbuitachi]

Ppl care so little about our field, they dont even take into consideration of our job when designing a procedure room. It's all about making the surgeons happy. Look at above, and see how difficult it is to just get to the airway.. Patient head is 90 degrees. covered by C arm, and your path is blocked by all your tubes/wires and the IV pole (which are tied for their 3D imaging so it doesn't accidentally rip stuff out), There is a giant screen for the proceduralist immediately to your left, and the vent not seen here is immediately to your right. Just the other day as I was securing my tube/IV/cords, the proceduralist moved the machine counterclockwise w/o saying anything and lifted the IV pole over which fell on me as i was tying the wires under the bed lollll

 

[dchz]

Few points I agree with:

-Respect is earned, not given. Focus on your craft first and be the best you can be. Some of co-residents in anes don't even have my respect due to the way they behave.
-anes is a service industry to other physicians.
-sometimes being an dingus is a reflection on others:

Respect is about the person being given to, and has to be earned, but (lack of) politeness is mostly about the education and upbringing of the person speaking.

Finally:
Stop and think, if it won't matter in 5 years, don't let it bother you.

 

[Ignatius J]

Ya. Thats why no one treats our field with respect. No wonder its dying. Let's just keep ignoring the problems. Mistreat us? No probs, i'll just sweet talk and ignore it. Lower our salary? No probs, i'll give you some honey to go with it

W that said, im totally cool w a Surgeon venting. As long as its not disrespectful. he can curse at anyone who isn't in the room all he wants. And i'm willing to help nurses out too, but i dont want to be expected to do it as if its now my job. I often go get the blood on the other side of the room myself, or get containers myself for the urine when patient is stable and im not preoccupied, etc

W that said I'm against anyone disrespecting anyone as I think it harms patient care and teamwork. Same w patients disrespecting anesthesiologists.

As i have mentioned, I have no issues on a regular basis with cutting salaries or dealing with disrespect. Most genuine, hard-working anesthesiologists I see don't either. I'm not sure how your practice is, but I can tell you, relationships built on professionalism and cordiality go along way in my experience. Good work finds good people. I firmly believe that. The road is littered with washed-up, embittered professionals who felt "disrespected".

 

[Arch Guillotti]

As i have mentioned, I have no issues on a regular basis with cutting salaries

This is a sad reality it seems. We all deserve to get paid for our services and value. The problem is that AMC's and hospitals are skimming off the top and aren't compensating many anesthesiologists fairly.

I am an employee but I am an employee of a corporation that I own part of. Unfortunately this model is dying it seems.

 

[Ignatius J]

This is a sad reality it seems. We all deserve to get paid for our services and value. The problem is that AMC's and hospitals are skimming off the top and aren't compensating many anesthesiologists fairly.

I am an employee but I am an employee of a corporation that I own part of. Unfortunately this model is dying it seems.

Very true. Perhaps I will find out as I have no experience dealing with an AMC. I work in a private group with very reasonable partnership tracts. I will say dealing with the operating room staff and dealing with the suits in your own group are different beasts. My advice applies more to the OR side of things.

 

[Neogenesis]

Here's how I deal with disrespect....

You let them punch you in the face until the feel better? Interesting strategy

 

[Consigliere]

You let them punch you in the face until the feel better? Interesting strategy

I'm the one doing the punching jag off.

 

[anonperson]

And I'm not sure if this is everywhere but often times where I'm at, the anesthesiologist is also tasked with doing nursing work, like charting things. We chart things like in ortho cases, tourniquet up, tourniquet down. In Flaps, eg flap ischemia time, microscope begins; throat pack in, throat pack out; etc etc. We don't make surgeons do surgery and dictate it at the same time.. yet for some reason we are supposed to chart those little things.

Plenty of other docs are doing nursing jobs. I routinely do the skin/vaginal prep on my patients and clip hair and have seen a lot of other surgical attendings do the same. Hell, I've heard some of my older attendings mopping the floors between cases just to speed up turnaround time several years back and this is at a major academic institution, and thats not even a "nursing" job. At the end of the day, speed/efficiency/safety are what we all care about regardless of how it gets done.

 

[dhb]

. I routinely do the vaginal prep on my patients

To each his own...

 

[deleted697535]

I've worked in 5 places now. 2.5 the anaesthesic Dept were treated like dirt. The other 2 and a half depts ruled the hospital. Not many gave them ****. (Edit happy lol)

The difference was the crap departments were weak lazy, did no icu, didn't share their earnings in a group scheme and fexked off home asap and did no cardiac, had 0 say in the running of the hospital.

The strong departments ran the ICU, shared earnings, did loads of cardiac, had members on every meeting. And they had a fair few cvnts among them who unleashed hell on anyone who crossed their path on a reasonably regular basis.

So... Find a strong department. Do ICU. Do cardiac. Be a **** when you need to be. Share you earnings in a group scheme. Be on boards. And don't whine! Say nothing or absolutely burn the house down, but don't whine... Don't run off home early.

It's not your fault. It's your weak Dept fault

 

[Ignatius J]

I've worked in 5 places now. 2.5 the anaesthesic Dept were treated like dirt. The other 2 and a half depts ruled the hospital. No one gave them any **** ever.

The difference was the crap departments were weak lazy, did no icu, didn't share their earnings in a group scheme and fexked off home asap and did no cardiac, had 0 say in the running of the hospital.

The strong departments ran the ICU, shared earnings, did loads of cardiac, had members on every meeting. And they had a fair few cvnts among them who unleashed hell on anyone who crossed their path on a reasonably regular basis.

So... Find a strong department. Do ICU. Do cardiac. Be a **** when you need to be. Share you earnings in a group scheme. Be on boards. And don't whine! Say nothing or absolutely burn the house down, but don't whine... Don't run off home early.

It's not your fault. It's your weak Dept fault

No one gave them any **** ever but they unleashed hell on people who crossed their path on a regular basis?

 

[waterbottle10]

Plenty of other docs are doing nursing jobs. I routinely do the skin/vaginal prep on my patients and clip hair and have seen a lot of other surgical attendings do the same. Hell, I've heard some of my older attendings mopping the floors between cases just to speed up turnaround time several years back and this is at a major academic institution, and thats not even a "nursing" job. At the end of the day, speed/efficiency/safety are what we all care about regardless of how it gets done.

There's. a difference between doing it for effieicnecy and being required to do it.

 

[fakin' the funk]

Residency: close-to-zero respect from surgical attendings/residents, circulators, preop nurses, etc.

PP: significant respect from surgical colleagues, preop/intra/postop nurses, techs, etc. Not just that there is respect, but also the absence of disrespect. If there was a disrespectful interaction, I would have recourse through my group/dept's hierarchy to address it or right it.*

It gets better.

* = For the most part. Some peeps are just douches

 

[deleted162650]

Residency: close-to-zero respect from surgical attendings/residents, circulators, preop nurses, etc.

Ya know, I never really felt that way - maybe it was just you??😉

 

[rakotomazoto]

Lots of good comments have already been made on this one. It is encouraging to hear most people's experience in PP have been positive.

I am a CA-2 so my experience in dealing with personalities in the OR is limited. However, I have figured out a few things that seem to work for me, at least some of the time. As mentioned, some people are beyond all reason.

If someone is giving me a hard time about something not directly related to patient care, ie, how the furniture is arranged, picking up trash, putting a mask on, etc. then my strategy is to use humor. Many times, this has led to friendships with nurses, scrub techs, and other doctors who do the whole, "hey, anesthesia!" thing to the other residents. Obviously, this technique only works if you have a good sense of humor.

When it comes to conflicts over patient care, my strategy is "quiet confidence". I had a rebellious spirit as a teenager, as many others. Fighting with my parents over everything eventually taught me that if you have a disagreement with someone else and the other person is yelling, you have probably won the argument already. If you are yelling and the other person is still calm, you are the losing party. If both of you are yelling at the top of your lungs, that's the very definition of a lose-lose situation.

And the whole, "hey, anesthesia" thing is usually an indicator that you haven't done anything to distinguish yourself in the eyes of that person. If you want their respect, treat them like a human and help them out when the opportunity arises. Tie up people's gowns, put on the monitors even when you don't have to, be actively engaged in the team and when possible, get to know people on a more personal level. Shoot the breeze about their personal lives.

None of this is rocket science, but the little things make a big difference in how people treat you.

 

[deleted697535]

And the whole, "hey, anesthesia" thing is usually an indicator that you haven't done anything to distinguish yourself in the eyes of that person. If you want their respect, treat them like a human and help them out when the opportunity arises. Tie up people's gowns, put on the monitors even when you don't have to

Or alternatively you could batter the sh1t out of them. Lol joke

 

[Candidate2017]

God bless you all. This thread reminds me why I did not choose an OR-based specialty. The OR attracts many people whose behavior and lack of common courtesy would be reprimanded daily in a kindergarten class. Common courtesy shouldn't need to be "earned".

 

[teeva]

It happens everywhere. Maybe just a little more intensely when everyone is trapped in a small room.

That said, it really is sad that after a decade of educuaction, training, examination, and certification some people believe or feel in their workplace that respect must be earned. Respect should be presumed until evidence proves otherwise.

Also, I don't mop floors or prep orifices for the same reason I don't stand outside my house and wait for the garbage truck to come around and empty the garbage can into the truck myself. It's not that it's beneath me, and I couldn't care less about efficiency. It's just not my job.

If my workplace ever required or asked me to pick up a mop, I'd get it my car and never come back. That place has bigger issues to deal with.

 

[nimbus]

Lots of good comments have already been made on this one. It is encouraging to hear most people's experience in PP have been positive.

I am a CA-2 so my experience in dealing with personalities in the OR is limited. However, I have figured out a few things that seem to work for me, at least some of the time. As mentioned, some people are beyond all reason.

If someone is giving me a hard time about something not directly related to patient care, ie, how the furniture is arranged, picking up trash, putting a mask on, etc. then my strategy is to use humor. Many times, this has led to friendships with nurses, scrub techs, and other doctors who do the whole, "hey, anesthesia!" thing to the other residents. Obviously, this technique only works if you have a good sense of humor.

When it comes to conflicts over patient care, my strategy is "quiet confidence". I had a rebellious spirit as a teenager, as many others. Fighting with my parents over everything eventually taught me that if you have a disagreement with someone else and the other person is yelling, you have probably won the argument already. If you are yelling and the other person is still calm, you are the losing party. If both of you are yelling at the top of your lungs, that's the very definition of a lose-lose situation.

And the whole, "hey, anesthesia" thing is usually an indicator that you haven't done anything to distinguish yourself in the eyes of that person. If you want their respect, treat them like a human and help them out when the opportunity arises. Tie up people's gowns, put on the monitors even when you don't have to, be actively engaged in the team and when possible, get to know people on a more personal level. Shoot the breeze about their personal lives.

None of this is rocket science, but the little things make a big difference in how people treat you.

+1

Also makes the job a hell of a lot more fun.

 

[acidbase1]

Graduating CA3. Took piles of shat for 4 years, last month have been telling ppl to get f'ed (the ones who deserve it anyways). It's been glorious

 

[pgg]

Graduating CA3. Took piles of shat for 4 years, last month have been telling ppl to get f'ed (the ones who deserve it anyways). It's been glorious

Careful

I've known people who've snatched defeat from the jaws of victory in their last few weeks before departing a training program or other job. You're going to need references and want the word-of-mouth network benefits from that place for the rest of your career. If you tell off some obnoxious RN, and that feel-good moment causes even small headaches for the people who are staying and have to deal with that RN's response (which may extend to the rest of your department), they may remember.

People who can influence your future will remember their last impression of you.

The consequences may not be overt. When someone calls them to check up on your references and asks about you, they'll still say nice things, unless you're a complete tool. Think more subtle - most of the best jobs are filled word of mouth. When the word hits your institution, ideally they'll be inclined to pass that word on to you.

To be clear, I'm not telling you to be a doormat or some kind of meek subserviant pathetic creature. But it's so easy to be competent and professional until the minute you walk out the door. Don't **** this up in the middle of May.

 

[pjl]

Careful

I've known people who've snatched defeat from the jaws of victory in their last few weeks before departing a training program or other job. You're going to need references and want the word-of-mouth network benefits from that place for the rest of your career. If you tell off some obnoxious RN, and that feel-good moment causes even small headaches for the people who are staying and have to deal with that RN's response (which may extend to the rest of your department), they may remember.

People who can influence your future will remember their last impression of you.

The consequences may not be overt. When someone calls them to check up on your references and asks about you, they'll still say nice things, unless you're a complete tool. Think more subtle - most of the best jobs are filled word of mouth. When the word hits your institution, ideally they'll be inclined to pass that word on to you.

To be clear, I'm not telling you to be a doormat or some kind of meek subserviant pathetic creature. But it's so easy to be competent and professional until the minute you walk out the door. Don't **** this up in the middle of May.

We rescinded a job offer after hearing how a resident treated the secretary at the program. If they couldnt be nice as a resident to someone "below" them, we assumed when they were in a position over others they would continue that behavior. Not worth the risk for our group.


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