Tips on getting a dermpath spot

[GMO2003]

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I know this may be jumping the gun being that I just finished my transitional year internship and will have to do a 2 year GMO prior to even starting a path residency...however, being that dermpath is probably the most competitive path fellowship to obtain are there any helpful hints anybody would like to share with the newbies? thanks in advance 👍

 

[yaah]

1) Get involved in research in dermpath.
2) Attempt to make contact with dermpath attendings/staff around the country.
3) Enjoy dermpath and do electives in it.
4) Do your residency at a program with a dermpath fellowship, hopefully one that will take their own residents.

Probably most important: Every time you see a dermatologist, tell him/her that pathology is a terrible field, there are no jobs for dermpath, and it would be a waste of their time. Also, tell them the average salary for someone doing dermpath is much less than someone doing straight derm. And tell them that dermpathologists work, on average, at least 10 hours more per week than a strict dermatologist. I have no idea if any of this is true, but the fewer hyper-competitive dermatology residents that want to do a dermpath fellowship the better for you. Dermatologists like to say it's not about the money or lifestyle for them but it is, at least in some part.

 

[drjones]

Yes, dermpath is UNBELIEVABLE competitive. Example: Last year, 100 Board Certified dermatologists/pathologists competed for 7 fellowship pos. at the Ackerman Academy of Dermatopathology... I think they accepted ONE IMG.

There's a neverending debate about wether derm or path is the best background, and honestly both have advantages and drawbacks. Regardless, it's certainly necessary to convincingly demonstrate top notch training and ability in either. Perhaps check out the background of the PD, as - all other things being equal - a path PD probably prefers a path, while a derm-trained PD prob. thinks that derm background is best. Also note, that since the core of dermpath is determination of malignancies, it's probably not good to have a derm background focused on cosmetic derm, because it's really looked down upon by dermpaths, in my experience.

Getting a residency at a place that offers dermpath is prob. a good idea, because depts. approved for dermpath fellowships are usually large and well-regarded, have an interesting dermpath caseload you can lay your eyes on, and gives you the ability to schmooze the dermpaths working there.

Also note that both derm and path traditionally LOVE research, so serious first authorships are close to mandatory, along with evidence that you aced the boards. And as noted above strong LOR's/contacts among dermpaths are a def. advantage. It's a pretty small close-knit community.

Unfortunately, the advice posted above about discouraging other applicants is unlikely to work. Fact is, that dermpaths prob. on average aren't among the highest paid MD's. But they have far and away the best working hours. Most everyone can live quite comfortably working 40 hrs/week, and most cases can be signed out wearing a blindfold

Good luck!

 

[Fermata]

Dermpath spots seemed to be filled 50% by path and 50% by derm.

So you should stand a good shot.

 

[GMO2003]

Fact is, that dermpaths prob. on average aren't among the highest paid MD's. But they have far and away the best working hours. Most everyone can live quite comfortably working 40 hrs/week, and most cases can be signed out wearing a blindfold

Good luck!

on the contrary Dr. Jones...I've heard dermpath docs are very generously compensated..which is one of the reasons I'd like to get involved with the field... 👍

 

[yaah]

on the contrary Dr. Jones...I've heard dermpath docs are very generously compensated..which is one of the reasons I'd like to get involved with the field... 👍

Yeah, I have heard private practice derm path folks do quite well. They generally have to look at lots of cases, but that isn't usually a problem. Perhaps compared to the salary of a dermatologist who does botox procedures as well as laser procedures the salary is low, however. But compared to the average pathologist, dermpath folks are right up there.

Dr Jones, I like your name. All I can think of now is that little kid Ke Huy Quan in Temple of Doom (who also played the magnificent role of "Data" in The Goonies) yelling out, Hey, lady. You call him DOCTA JONES!!! That kid ruled.

 

[GMO2003]

yahh..how't the path residency going thus far..where are you WSU?? St. Johns? I'm trying to see the light at the end of the tunnel..then again, I'm sort of looking forward to the new adventure that lies ahead for me...take care man

 

[yaah]

yahh..how't the path residency going thus far..where are you WSU?? St. Johns? I'm trying to see the light at the end of the tunnel..then again, I'm sort of looking forward to the new adventure that lies ahead for me...take care man

Noooooooo........Ann Arbor.

No Wayne State for Yaah.

I started on clinical chem. Lots of reading. I find it fascinating but everything is automated so I really have no responsibilities other than attending lectures and making a presentation. Clinical chem is generally a nice rotation if you have work to catch up on. However, since this is month #1, all I have to catch up with is this forum.

 

[GMO2003]

Juding by my friends who work in path, my understanding is that most private practice groups are rather democratic with all people having to split the work equally.

A dermpath trained person won't make anymore than the rest of the group, but having a dermpath trained person might make the candidate more desirable to the group if they are looking to hire someone (so they can so to speak look better to the dermatologists who send them cases).

How do you figure they make more money?

I have no hard evidene to back my assumption that fellowship trained path docs in dempath make more...I'm just going by anectdotal posts by some of the more active posters on the board...ie greatpumpkin who says dermpath docs can make upwards of 300k+

 

[zoolander]

might be geography... lots of derms in CA read their own slides, so there aren't the same practice opps. have met a few dermpath faculty who have been looking to move (back) to CA for years. apparently its hard to get a lot of volume in private practice there.

re: application #s the Ackerman dermpath institute is crazy competitive, but it's kind of in a class by itself. in the field it's probably agreed on as the best in the nation and run by the leader in derm path. other programs like Stanford or NYU have 2-3 fellows, almost all from the pathology side. Stanford's is actually in the path department, buildings away from derm, and definitely has a pathology flavor to it.

No info on the salary side- anyone know more?

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I've seen that figure several times. It seems like 300K is for real!

 

[drjones]

might be geography... lots of derms in CA read their own slides, so there aren't the same practice opps. have met a few dermpath faculty who have been looking to move (back) to CA for years. apparently its hard to get a lot of volume in private practice there.

re: application #s the Ackerman dermpath institute is crazy competitive, but it's kind of in a class by itself. in the field it's probably agreed on as the best in the nation and run by the leader in derm path. other programs like Stanford or NYU have 2-3 fellows, almost all from the pathology side. Stanford's is actually in the path department, buildings away from derm, and definitely has a pathology flavor to it.

No info on the salary side- anyone know more?

True, Ackerman Academy IS in a class by itself. Still, I think there's only something like 45 approved fellowships out there, so none are easy to get. (on the other hand, reputation goes from good to stellar, so all progs. should basically be ok)
Might also be true that majority of dermpaths are East Coast/Central.

As regards pay: Point is, that pay PER HOUR is very good. $300K should be no prob. Some make less, but that's because they want to hit the golf course early every day. I know a guy in Tex. working hard and making abt. $700K.
So what's the limit, you ask? Well, one dermpath guy has made enough to personally fund a full professorship at Harvard. (guess who...)
http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2004/04.08/17-donor.html

 

[yaah]

Juding by my friends who work in path, my understanding is that most private practice groups are rather democratic with all people having to split the work equally.

A dermpath trained person won't make anymore than the rest of the group, but having a dermpath trained person might make the candidate more desirable to the group if they are looking to hire someone (so they can so to speak look better to the dermatologists who send them cases).

How do you figure they make more money?

I figure this because I have talked to a couple of academic derm path people who have been offered jobs with salaries that start at a high level, higher than what I have heard for people at similar stages of their career who are doing surg path or general path.

You might be right about splitting up work at a lot of places though. But there do exist quite a few private practices who stick to dermpath only.

 

[GMO2003]

As regards pay: Point is, that pay PER HOUR is very good. $300K should be no prob. Some make less, but that's because they want to hit the golf course early every day. I know a guy in Tex. working hard and making abt. $700K.
So what's the limit, you ask? Well, one dermpath guy has made enough to personally fund a full professorship at Harvard. (guess who...)
http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2004/04.08/17-donor.html

$700K seems a bit too good to be true and hard to believe...although, I genuinely hope it's possible...maybe I'll be able to by that oceanside townhouse and aston martin vanquish afterall 👍 I could settle for a nice house at the country club and a 7 series beemer for the wife and a porsche 911 carerra for me

 

[GMO2003]

I guess my dream of living high on the hogg as a pathologist are nonesense?? 😉

 

[yaah]

I guess my dream of living high on the hogg as a pathologist are nonesense?? 😉

Not at all. Do some research and develop an important assay and patent it. Well, you have a choice. You could be like Roentgen and leave your invention (xray machines) unpatented so that the world can benefit. Or you can be American and PROFIT.

There is $$$ to be made out there, just have to find the right situation. If you work hard you'll do fine.

If you want a job that pays extremely well and requires minimal work time, well, I suggest joining the NBA.

 

[GMO2003]

Not at all. Do some research and develop an important assay and patent it. Well, you have a choice. You could be like Roentgen and leave your invention (xray machines) unpatented so that the world can benefit. Or you can be American and PROFIT.

There is $$$ to be made out there, just have to find the right situation. If you work hard you'll do fine.

If you want a job that pays extremely well and requires minimal work time, well, I suggest joining the NBA.

yaah..my friend!!! how's it going my brother!!! I was thinking the same thing...I bet that Kerry Mullins (sp??) is doing pretty well right now...path is awesome btw...staff, residents, and techs are all easy going and laid back...couldn't be better...hope to join you in 2 years 👍

 

[JulianDelphiki]

yaah..my friend!!! how's it going my brother!!! I was thinking the same thing...I bet that Kerry Mullins (sp??) is doing pretty well right now...path is awesome btw...staff, residents, and techs are all easy going and laid back...couldn't be better...hope to join you in 2 years 👍

If I'm not mistaken, Kary Mullis did not get rich from inventing PCR. Because he worked for Cetus Pharmaceuticals, they got the patent on PCR which they sold to Hoffman-La Roche who are the ones making money on it. The only thing Kary Mullis got was the Nobel Prize money and a "thank you very much, yoink!" from Cetus so he left to found his own research company.

He wrote a hilarious book called "Dancing Naked in the Mind Field" that I highly recommend. In it he goes through some of his interesting beliefs such as the fact that he has seen extraterrestrials masquerading as raccoons. I'm not kidding, the guy is nuts but very entertaining.

Anyways, sorry for the diversion. Read the book if you have spare time--I think Kary Mullis would have made an awesome pathologist.