Tips to succeed

[Juwan]

Hey guys.

So I'm going to be attending st matthews in the fall of 2014. I understand all the downside of this but I'm going and I was kind of trying to prep myself for the workload. Now I understand medical school is a lot of work and trying to be successful from a 2nd tier Caribbean school is going to be harder than anything I've ever done. I was curious how I should start to prep myself for all the work load and what I can do to stay competitive with American grads. In their match profile there are maybe 1-3 people who get into residencies other than family or internal. I was curious if anyone knew how these guys did it. What can I do to get into a competitive residency? I also know that this is close to impossible n the odds are that I'll end up in family medicine, if I'm lucky. But let's say luck is on my side what kind of work would I have to do to best improve my chances to pry any of these doors open.

I realize that this is a huge stretch, but I mean might as well going in with the mindset to be the best even if the odds are really really against me. Any type of help would be great.

Also if anyone has recent experience with st matthews I'd love to hear about your experiences and tips and what I should bring laptops, tablets, notecards? Things that I completely wouldn't think about.

Thanks in advance.

Don't troll me too hard

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[loltopsy]

You're wasting your time and money at that school. Get into an SMP or, if you can't, do a few more years of college to bring up your grade. Then get into a DO school.

 

[Skip Intro]

I realize that this is a huge stretch, but I mean might as well going in with the mindset to be the best even if the odds are really really against me. Any type of help would be great.

Questions you should ask yourself before attending this program:

(1) How much is the total education going to cost? Do I have the resources to pay for this, especially if (for whatever reason) I drop out? (https://www.stmatthews.edu/medical-school-financial-information/tuition-and-fees)
(2) How much will I make when I graduate and finish residency, at a minimum, 7 years from now?
(3) Do I want to practice - or will I at some point in the future - in a state where SMU graduates are currently banned from independent licensure?

Good luck!

-Skip

 

[oldstock]

Questions you should ask yourself before attending this program:

(1) How much is the total education going to cost? Do I have the resources to pay for this, especially if (for whatever reason) I drop out? (https://www.stmatthews.edu/medical-school-financial-information/tuition-and-fees)
(2) How much will I make when I graduate and finish residency, at a minimum, 7 years from now?
(3) Do I want to practice - or will I at some point in the future - in a state where SMU graduates are currently banned from independent licensure?

Good luck!

-Skip

The school sounds like a good school when I read from their website and checked out the residency placement and approval/eligibility for rotations/licensure.

https://www.stmatthews.edu/medical-school-the-smu-difference/proven-quality-of-education

https://www.stmatthews.edu/alumni-residency-placement

https://www.stmatthews.edu/medical-school-the-smu-difference/credentials

https://www.stmatthews.edu/medical-school-financial-information/tuition-and-fees

https://www.stmatthews.edu/medical-school-financial-information/loans


So when I see Skip said "banned", I was very alarmed and decided to do a quick google on the school

Checking wikipedia,

"Licensure restrictions

In the United States, the medical boards of the following states have listed St. Matthew's University as an institution whose graduates are ineligible for licensure::

• California[13]
• Indiana[14]
• Kansas[15]
• North Dakota[16]

In the United Kingdom, the General Medical Council has listed St. Matthew's University as an institution whose graduates from the Belize campus are ineligible for licensure. Graduates from the current Cayman Islands campus are eligible for licensure.[17]"

"History


St. Matthews, Grand Cayman


St Matthews Campus
SMU was founded in Belize in 1997 by Grand Forks, North Dakota native Jeffrey S. Sersland and was named for Sersland's friend Matthew Uhrich of North Dakota.[4] In 2001, the board of directors abruptly changed the university's administration, with Sersland and his wife both removed from their positions on campus. In 2002, the school moved to the Cayman Islands under interim president B.D. Owens.[5] Sersland then formed the Medical University of the Americas - Belize in 2002[4] which closed in 2007[6]

The School of Veterinary Medicine was established in 2005.[7] The school was acquired by Greenwich, Connecticut-based Equinox Capital in conjunction with Chicago-based Prairie Capital in 2005.[8]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Matthew's_University


So I guess SMU was badly run by Sersland and probably the ban in those states above gotta be related to the old Belize campus.

The school is now owned by Equinox. Equinox also owns Saba and MUA, both are very good. So I guess SMU will run and aim for the same quality standards set by SABA and MUA. Judging by their results of residency placement and licensure (44 states + Canada) posted on their website, they are good already.

"RISOM’s pedigree


Steven C. Rodger is the founder and managing partner of Equinox Capital (Greenwich, CT), president of R3
Education (Devon, MA), and founder of RISOM. He has a bachelor’s degree from the University of Virginia and an MBA from Harvard. Both Equinox and R3 Education are behind three fully accredited, for-profit allopathic medical schools in the Caribbean. The schools are Saba University School of Medicine, founded in 1993 and located on the island of Saba, near St. Maarten; the Medical University of the Americas, founded in 1998 and located in Charlestown on the island of Nevis, near St. Kitts; and St. Matthew’s University, founded in 1997 and located on Grand Cayman Island. St. Matthew’s grants both MD and DVM degrees. The medical students from these schools do clinical rotations at some 71 hospitals in the US and Canada, including hospitals in Bridgeport, CT, and on Cape Cod. Ninety-one percent of their graduates place in residencies, according to R3 Education."

https://www.rimed.org/rimn/2012-07/01-risom.pdf

http://www.valuemd.com/saba-university-school-medicine/187509-saba-st-matthews-mua-owners.html

https://www.google.com/search?q=school owns by Equinox&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb#channel=sb&q=Caribbean medical schools owns by Equinox&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial



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*Note: DeVry owns Ross and AUC

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...al-school-rejects-as-taxpayers-fund-debt.html

 

[Skip Intro]

You should also consider those states that maintain comity with California's medical board, as those licensure boards will also not allow you to get an unrestricted license to practice medicine if you go to this school.

Other states that follow California’s approval include: Alaska, Arkansas, Colorado, Kansas, Idaho, Indiana, New Mexico, Oregon, Tennessee and Vermont.

http://medschoolstudent.com/tag/california-medical-board/

Furthermore, your entire posts reeks of an advertisement from someone affiliated with the school.

Here instead is a great primer (with equally fascinating commentary) available on this very website:

http://www.studentdoctor.net/2011/01/caribbean-medical-schools-what-to-consider/

Caveat emptor.

-Skip

 

[Skip Intro]

The Licensing Program has formally disapproved the international medical schools listed below. Therefore, neither education completed at, nor diplomas issued by, these schools will be accepted toward meeting the requirements for training and/or licensure in this state.

http://www.mbc.ca.gov/Applicants/Medical_Schools/Schools_Disapproved.aspx

-Skip

 

[oldstock]

You should also consider those states that maintain comity with California's medical board, as those licensure boards will also not allow you to get an unrestricted license to practice medicine if you go to this school.



http://medschoolstudent.com/tag/california-medical-board/

Furthermore, your entire posts reeks of an advertisement from someone affiliated with the school.

Here instead is a great primer (with equally fascinating commentary) available on this very website:

http://www.studentdoctor.net/2011/01/caribbean-medical-schools-what-to-consider/

Caveat emptor.

-Skip

hey Skip, I appreciate all the info you can provide but no need to be so harsh on me !! I have nothing to do with the school. I was just curious bc I was an old pre-med. That's all

but you could have told the OP all that info even before my original post, right ??

 

[Skip Intro]

I've posted similar info on other threads as we'll. Anyone can do a search.

The tenor of my follow-up response was a direct result of the subsequent information posted.

Everyone should do their own careful homework before making a decision, and ensure that they have the most factual and current information available before making a decision.

This is not "harsh". This is reality. Especially with the amounts of money involved.

-Skip

 

[oldstock]

I've posted similar info on other threads as we'll. Anyone can do a search.

The tenor of my follow-up response was a direct result of the subsequent information posted.
Everyone should do their own careful homework before making a decision, and ensure that they have the most factual and current information available before making a decision.

This is not "harsh". This is reality. Especially with the amounts of money involved.

-Skip

you implied I was running ad for the school, which is not the truth. And your tone and wording were harsh. So that was why I said "harsh". I was just curious and did not dig deep enough. No evil intention here.

wait, I am confused. Just to verify, you meant me or the OP when you said
"Furthermore, your entire posts reeks of an advertisement from someone affiliated with the school." ??

again, if you meant me, I had no bad intention. I have nothing to do with the school or get paid by them even a red cent. Maybe I am only guilty of bad research

anyhoo, look like Equinox made a bad investment there. They should have been just fine with Saba and MUA.

 

[Skip Intro]

Many (if not most) of the big Caribbean schools are owned by some third-party private equity firm and/or a for-profit institutions of higher education. Ross and AUC are indeed owned by DeVry. I'm not sure what Equinox is getting out of the deal, but that's not really relevant, important, or a factor in the day-to-day activities of the school or its matriculants. As stated, St. Matthews does have graduates that can practice in many states, but are permanently banned in others.

Also, you have some decent formatting/posting skills (beyond what's normally seen here). You have not been a regular player in this forum. Most of your activity has been on the pharmacy/pre-pharmacy forums. If you are not affiliated with the school (and I'll take what you said at face value), then individual readers still have the content of your post on which to judge its merit.

So... you showed-up here with a fairly well-polished post appearing to semi-glorify ("sounds like a good school when I read from their website", "Equinox also owns Saba and MUA, both are very good. So I guess SMU will run and aim for the same quality standards set by SABA and MUA.") a school whose issues have already been extensively discussed on this forum. It was not unreasonable to question your motivations, especially when at least part of your analysis was superficial and incomplete. For the record, Wikipedia is an okay starting point, but not (necessarily) a complete source on which to base decisions. At least, I wouldn't suggest anyone should do that. Same goes for things said on any school's website.

I would invite you to read some of my other posts (excluding the most recent ones about a proposed school in the U.S. Virgin Islands, which currently does not actually have a medical school, is not enrolling students, and the content of those posts involved discussion regarding speculation about whether or not they will ever become an accredited school).

Also, posts by bedevilled ben and a few others who regularly post here are generally very informative and spot on. As it appears now, your post looked like an advertisement for a school that most of us would be very cautious in telling someone to attend without exhausting other options first (for example, I knew students who failed out/dropped out of Ross when I was there and subsequently transferred to SMU). I think you need to look a little deeper and learn a little bit more about the Caribbean before making some of the assumptions you did in your post about such things as Equinox's intentions.

Just a few words of friendly advice. I've regularly, off and on, been a participant this forum for the past 12 years. I've lived it. And, I've seen the good and bad.

-Skip

 

[oldstock]

Many (if not most) of the big Caribbean schools are owned by some third-party private equity firm and/or a for-profit institutions of higher education. Ross and AUC are indeed owned by DeVry. I'm not sure what Equinox is getting out of the deal, but that's not really relevant, important, or a factor in the day-to-day activities of the school or its matriculants. As stated, St. Matthews does have graduates that can practice in many states, but are permanently banned in others.

Also, you have some decent formatting/posting skills (beyond what's normally seen here). You have not been a regular player in this forum. Most of your activity has been on the pharmacy/pre-pharmacy forums. If you are not affiliated with the school (and I'll take what you said at face value), then individual readers still have the content of your post on which to judge its merit.

So... you showed-up here with a fairly well-polished post appearing to semi-glorify ("sounds like a good school when I read from their website", "Equinox also owns Saba and MUA, both are very good. So I guess SMU will run and aim for the same quality standards set by SABA and MUA.") a school whose issues have already been extensively discussed on this forum. It was not unreasonable to question your motivations, especially when at least part of your analysis was superficial and incomplete. For the record, Wikipedia is an okay starting point, but not (necessarily) a complete source on which to base decisions. At least, I wouldn't suggest anyone should do that. Same goes for things said on any school's website.

I would invite you to read some of my other posts (excluding the most recent ones about a proposed school in the U.S. Virgin Islands, which currently does not actually have a medical school, is not enrolling students, and the content of those posts involved discussion regarding speculation about whether or not they will ever become an accredited school).

Also, posts by bedevilled ben and a few others who regularly post here are generally very informative and spot on. As it appears now, your post looked like an advertisement for a school that most of us would be very cautious in telling someone to attend without exhausting other options first (for example, I knew students who failed out/dropped out of Ross when I was there and subsequently transferred to SMU). I think you need to look a little deeper and learn a little bit more about the Caribbean before making some of the assumptions you did in your post about such things as Equinox's intentions.

Just a few words of friendly advice. I've regularly, off and on, been a participant this forum for the past 12 years. I've lived it. And, I've seen the good and bad.

-Skip

dang, now I know how innocent people end up in jail

like I said, I did only a quick Google search. and not dig deep enough. Yes I am new here and thinking about medicine. I have started reading your posts and like your info. And I like to learn more too. If I am wrong on anything, please correct me and steer me to the right sources. But to clarify once again, saying I am running ads for or glorify any Caribbean schools, that is not the truth.

 

[edgerock24]

Can we be honest: going to a Caribbean school other than Ross, SGU, AUC, and maybe Saba would be a mistake, irresponsible, and downright idiotic.

 

[loltopsy]

Can we be honest: going to a Caribbean school other than Ross, SGU, AUC, and maybe Saba would be a mistake, irresponsible, and downright idiotic.

Even going to the big 4, you are basically making a ~$250,000 bet. Some people win, most lose. Going to a US MD/DO school gives you between 95% and a ~75% chance, respectively, of winning that bet.

Going to a school like SMU, you might as well bet it all in Vegas.

 

[Medstart108]

Even going to the big 4, you are basically making a ~$250,000 bet. Some people win, most lose. Going to a US MD/DO school gives you between 95% and a ~75% chance, respectively, of winning that bet.

Going to a school like SMU, you might as well bet it all in Vegas.

You have to remember though that that bet is on yourself. You can control the outcome to a large extent, through hard work.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

You have to remember though that that bet is on yourself. You can control the outcome to a large extent, through hard work.

...........no you can't, especially not from St. Matthew's. I was going to add to Skip's posts, but I will just summarize: if you want to pay 250,000 dollars to probably never practice medicine in the US, I can give you my PayPal info and save you some time. You can attend the St. Griffen University of Medicine. (Note, 0% of graduates will find a residency, and we are accredited in 0 states....but you can beat the odds right?)

 

[Medstart108]

...........no you can't, especially not from St. Matthew's. I was going to add to Skip's posts, but I will just summarize: if you want to pay 250,000 dollars to probably never practice medicine in the US, I can give you my PayPal info and save you some time. You can attend the St. Griffen University of Medicine. (Note, 0% of graduates will find a residency, and we are accredited in 0 states....but you can beat the odds right?)

I was referring to the big 4 though....

 

[ChrisGriffen]

I was referring to the big 4 though....

Even the "big 4", its not under your control. You have to score 20 points higher than US grads just to be called equal. Im not saying its fair, but thats the way it is.

 

[Medstart108]

Even the "big 4", its not under your control. You have to score 20 points higher than US grads just to be called equal. Im not saying its fair, but thats the way it is.

Of course I agree, but that by definition is under your control. I think everyone if the put in enough time and effort can score enough to get themselves a residency and if they can't honestly maybe they shouldn't be a physician.

I think too many people really like to blame something else when they don't succeed and put the locus of control externally. In reality, if its a test that you prepare for and you can buy the materials needed to prepare for that test relatively affordably, and no one is stopping you from studying, the locus of control is with you and not with anyone else.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

If it were just as simple as "working hard" then nobody should be at a carib school in the first place. If you legitimately believe that you could "work hard" and score in the top 20% of test takers, you should "work hard", retake your MCAT, score a 40, and go to a US school.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

.....I just re-read my post above, and I need to clarify. I am not saying that students at international schools aren't intellectually capable of crushing their tests. What I should have said was, there are a lot of circumstances that aren't conducive to getting a killer test score. Internal and external. All students are subject to variables (you get sick, you find out the material is way harder than you expected, you get a tough usmle, you have a family/personal crisis .......). Dont EXPECT to net a 99th percentile.

The same reason that geniuses end up at their second or third choice school... Not because they aren't smart enough, because of "factor X" that is completely random and uncontrollable. That is why its a gamble.


You cant (shouldn't) go to a school like St Matthews with the expectation of being a practicing physician in the USA. You can take their info on the website as legit if you want, but there is an article on MedScape called "medical education in the caribbean: a longitudinal study of usmle performance" published in 2010 that cites their step 1 pass rate to be 51.6%. (That same year their website claimed over 90% passed).
Also if you check out valueMD there is a thread called "why to avoid SMU" where students openly post that ~50% of the students fail out, and only about 30 students per class make it through to graduate on time. (Whereas the website claims only 10% attrition rate).

Also on valueMD you will see posters who tell you the class size is 130+ students, whereas their website says "the incoming classes are restricted to a maximum of 50 students"

Now if you want to put yourself against those odds, with the expectation of coming back to the states with a viable MD degree, go right ahead. Just please be aware that statistically you won't be able to do that.


TL;DR --- go to the big 4, or don't go to medical school. Seriously. If you want a legitimate shot at being a doctor, go to a school where you at least PROBABLY can make that happen.

 

[oldstock]

.....I just re-read my post above, and I need to clarify. I am not saying that students at international schools aren't intellectually capable of crushing their tests. What I should have said was, there are a lot of circumstances that aren't conducive to getting a killer test score. Internal and external. All students are subject to variables (you get sick, you find out the material is way harder than you expected, you get a tough usmle, you have a family/personal crisis .......). Dont EXPECT to net a 99th percentile.

The same reason that geniuses end up at their second or third choice school... Not because they aren't smart enough, because of "factor X" that is completely random and uncontrollable. That is why its a gamble.


You cant (shouldn't) go to a school like St Matthews with the expectation of being a practicing physician in the USA. You can take their info on the website as legit if you want, but there is an article on MedScape called "medical education in the caribbean: a longitudinal study of usmle performance" published in 2010 that cites their step 1 pass rate to be 51.6%. (That same year their website claimed over 90% passed).
Also if you check out valueMD there is a thread called "why to avoid SMU" where students openly post that ~50% of the students fail out, and only about 30 students per class make it through to graduate on time. (Whereas the website claims only a 10% attrition rate).

Also on valueMD you will see posters who tell you the class size is 130+ students, whereas their website says "the incoming classes are restricted to a maximum of 50 students"

Now if you want to put yourself against those odds, with the expectation of coming back to the states with a viable MD degree, go right ahead. Just please be aware that statistically you won't be able to do that.


TL;DR --- go to the big 4, or don't go to medical school. Seriously. If you want a legitimate shot at being a doctor, go to a school where you at least PROBABLY can make that happen.

I agree with most of you said there about the odds and shady #s from SMU. But I'd like to chime in a little here.

I think that the main reason many Caribbean med schools have very high attrition rates bc mainly their admission in general is too easy for people to get in. Thus people who are not capable to handle med school and should not be there in the first place get in. Of course the result is that those people are going to fail out and/or fail to make it to the end even there is no negative stigma or higher bar on the USMLE for IMG already.

I also agree with going to the big 4 if one has to go to the Caribean route to become a doc. People know them more thus that is one less barrier already.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

I agree with most of you said there about the odds and shady #s from SMU. But I'd like to chime in a little here.

I think that the main reason many Caribbean med schools have very high attrition rates bc mainly their admission in general is too easy for people to get in. Thus people who are not capable to handle med school and should not be there in the first place get in. Of course the result is that those people are going to fail out and/or fail to make it to the end even there is no negative stigma or higher bar on the USMLE for IMG already.

I also agree with going to the big 4 if one has to go to the Caribean route to become a doc. People know them more thus that is one less barrier already.

Spot on. If you aren't the strongest student academically, why would you put yourself in a position where you need to outscore everyone in the USA, plus everyone at the big 4? If its a matter of "I know I can work hard and beat the odds", then do that right now, retake your classes/MCAT and try for SGU. If you cant do that, you probably also cant get a 220 on the USMLE.

I realize this sounds extremely rude. I am not trying to be mean but I am just hoping that he/she at least considers how ridiculously hard it is getting to land a residency before spending 4 years and 250k to find out the hard way.

 

[Skip Intro]

Of course I agree, but that by definition is under your control. I think everyone if the put in enough time and effort can score enough to get themselves a residency and if they can't honestly maybe they shouldn't be a physician.

I think too many people really like to blame something else when they don't succeed and put the locus of control externally. In reality, if its a test that you prepare for and you can buy the materials needed to prepare for that test relatively affordably, and no one is stopping you from studying, the locus of control is with you and not with anyone else.

If it were just as simple as "working hard" then nobody should be at a carib school in the first place. If you legitimately believe that you could "work hard" and score in the top 20% of test takers, you should "work hard", retake your MCAT, score a 40, and go to a US school.

You both are, of course, right.

I've said too-numerous-to-count times on this forum that (1) you have to be realistic and (2) do some serious soul-searching before you go this route. If you are currently struggling with standardized tests, be prepared and fully understand that this will be an inescapable part of your future. You will take many, many more standardized tests in your future.

Most of the people who truly succeeded and excelled at Ross (when I was there) had extensive backgrounds in some form of the medical sciences. That is, the people who were (generally speaking) at the top of their class had already worked in the medical field and/or ancillary fields. They were physical therapists, nurses, EMTs, pharmacists, paramedics, respiratory therapists, etc. There was even a chiropractor in my class. They had already had experience with the "jargon" and the flow of what is and isn't important.

Now, that doesn't mean that you can't succeed if you don't have this background. But, these were the people who were at the top of the class and with whom you'll be competing if you don't have such a background.

-Skip