To barely pass or to repeat the year?

[OncoCaP]

Sure, you can treat patients for anything, whether or not you've had that disease. But as for emotional support - that's why you refer patients to reliable support groups in the area. Because you know that you can't really empathize since you haven't experienced that.

Yes, you asked people if they liked MS1 or not. But I'm willing to bet that none of those people that you "informally polled" went through MS1 twice. They haven't been through that situation either.

You're right; the people I talked to never went through MS1 twice; that's a good point. Prowler mentioned one student who repeated a year and from whom it worked out very well, apparently (taking a preclinical year twice), but we can't generalize too much from a case or two. I just hope we can all provide our opinions and discuss them in a civil way without just having them automatically dismissed because of our standing in the educational process. If the input is bad, it should be possible to explain why it is wrong in a logical way (as many have given good reasons for their opinions).

If I'm missing something, feel free to show me where I'm wrong and why (as you have done ... I have never spoken with someone who had to repeat a year). Others have pointed out that there are ways of making it work out and learning what you need to learn to be an excellent physician in a specialty you want to go into. I'm totally in favor of not repeating the year if it is possible to pass, learn the material, do well on STEPs, avoid black marks on record, etc.

What sticks in my memory is a thread from student who supposedly failed out twice (one time due to a divorce), and I remember some of the SDNers asking "why didn't you take a leave of absence instead of failing out?" That left an impression on me, along with what the OP's dean said. Maybe I gave too much weight to those pieces of advice.

My hope is that the OP passes and doesn't have to repeat.

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[MeowMix]

Believe it or not, some deans give extremely crappy advice. In my first semester of med school, I struggled; two immediate family members had died within the past 2 months and I was having trouble. The first dean I went to for help told me to either go on antidepressants or take a leave of absence, and certainly not to tell anyone in my class that I was having trouble because I would get a reputation for not being able to handle difficulties.

Fortunately for me, I ignored his advice, got great support from my classmates, dealt with my normal (not pathological) grief, stuck it out, and got through first year just fine.

 

[OncoCaP]

Believe it or not, some deans give extremely crappy advice. In my first semester of med school, I struggled; two immediate family members had died within the past 2 months and I was having trouble. The first dean I went to for help told me to either go on antidepressants or take a leave of absence, and certainly not to tell anyone in my class that I was having trouble because I would get a reputation for not being able to handle difficulties.

Fortunately for me, I ignored his advice, got great support from my classmates, dealt with my normal (not pathological) grief, stuck it out, and got through first year just fine.

Yes, a good example of sorting things out properly. It's not a good idea to take advice blindly in any case. Fortunately for me, when I was in school my advisors, mentors, and instructors always seemed to be pulling for me and generally impressed me (they still do). I've always had a long list of people I could turn to if I had a problem. When I was in engineering as an UG (many moons ago), and we started with a class of ~185. When I graduated in four years, it was with a class of 30, and half of those graduating were from the previous class or two (a year head of me). Failing out or transferring of the program was the norm rather than the exception. Being humiliated in front of the class was part of the deal at times. That's more or less what I'm used to in life ... most people in life don't achieve their dream and settle for something else (which might still be quite good). I really don't think less of the ones who don't or more of the ones who are smashing successes. I look more at the character of the person and the benefits of their actions. The important thing for me is that when one door closes, I look for an open one and don't get discouraged.

Ph.D. was different. Yes it was hard work, but very few people dropped out. Everyone worked hard and it was very unpleasant at times (particularly toward the end when I was working non-stop). However, looking back it was a "no pain no gain" situation. Although I hate to admit it, when the work was at its least pleasant, I actually learned the most (growing more at the valleys of life than on the mountain-tops). I really grew when I was "bitter enough to graduate" and everything seemed to be crashing in on me in slow motion. Looking back, I really had no reason to be bitter at all. My advisors were on my side. My family was behind me. My business partners and employees were great (I worked while I did my Ph.D.). Students were great for the most part as well. It was just a lot of work and I had some things I needed to learn, like when your experiments aren't working for unexpected reasons, try to figure out if there is something novel you can report instead of being upset about wasted time on a dead end.

In school, while you can help and be helped, everyone is more or less responsible for their own thing; you mostly get your own grades (rather than group grades). When I entered into the business world, I got to experience what it is like to have true friends and enemies. I also was able to observe that in some areas of business that "doing what you were supposed to" was often not enough. Most people in technology businesses fail to achieve their goals. You really had to have a successful strategy and ability to recruit the best people to your cause to achieve your goals. I needed capable friends to accomplish anything of consequence. I also had a few enemies (I never had a true 'enemy' in school) ... people who would stop at nothing honest or dishonest to crush you (legal tactics, making false allegations, attempting to do things by force, etc.).

After spending a little time in business I realized how sheltered I was in school. If you did what you were supposed to do, things would work out in school. The worst that could happen to you is you fail out in a huge humiliating scandal (maybe 200 people know about it and laugh their tails off at the mention of your name or sight of your picture) and you have a big debt; it can all be over in a matter of days except for the debt payments of course and people who talk about you behind your back for years afterward. Although I was fortunate enough never to experience it, when things go badly in business, it seems like more money can be lost, a lot more people can find out about it (extensive public humiliation in the press where thousands of people now double over or shake their heads at the sight of your face) and the legal death-brawls can last for many years (another thank God I only had the minor ones, all of which I was on the winning side).

Anyway, enough about history. Now I'm going to medical school to serve. I'll try to help my classmates as much as I can; if I'm at the bottom of my class, that's fine as long as I learned what I needed to know and did my best. If I fail out (not planning to), I'll do any of the million other things that are worth doing besides medicine. If I'm at the top, that's fine too (but unlikely; my goal is never to be better than others). I would like to do heme/onc in academia, but if FP is all that's open to me, I'll do my best at that. Since I have already had a rewarding career where I have accomplished more than I expected to and had tons of fun, I have really nothing to prove to myself or anyone else. If I was hit by truck tomorrow, I would reflect on my full and happy life in my final seconds -- wow what a ride. However, I see a need and opportunity in medicine and I really enjoy the parts I have been exposed to. I'm simply going in to serve in something I'm very excited about; that's it. If it works out, wonderful; if not, I'll move on.

 

[SwineLake98]

So I decided to look at SDN for the first time in a while, saw this thread, and thought, "Hey, one of my friends is in this situation!"
...then I saw who started the thread.

I can't vote; I'm biased
I'm torn! I want you to do well and be prepared for boards and rotations (and I do not want you to compromise your recovery trying to keep up with GI), but I'll sure miss you in ghetto 26 if you don't move on with us! I know the administration and the module leaders have not been the most helpful people when it comes to helping you make the right decision or making it easy for you to stay on top of things, but at least you know (or should know) that you have peers backing up whatever decision you make. I'm stubborn...I think I would try to keep up unless it blew up in my face...not that I'm recommending that, of course!

 

[MeowMix]

I would like to do heme/onc in academia, but if FP is all that's open to me, I'll do my best at that.

Please, please stop writing these long posts before you put both feet in your mouth again. I know you are very well intentioned, but this does not come across very well.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Not to be unkind, but these are some of the most uninformed, ignorant assertions I've heard a pre-med make in a very long time. You seem to be missing the distinction here: Taking MS1 once is fine. Taking MS1 TWICE is torture.

Yep, if you have to do it and have absolutely no choice, you'll make the best of it and move on. However, it's a thing you probably really, really want to avoid for lots of reasons. Repeating the first year just to get a better grasp on the material seems like overkill to me.

 

[Critical Mass]

Just throwing this out there, but what about people who say that M2 is far more important for step 1? Is it possible for someone to get back on track enough during the second year to both do well and nail the USMLE?

 

[Sondra]

Off topic - this is kind of not true. Financially, the school would prefer that you NOT repeat the year. Think about it: if the OP takes an LOA and comes back next year, that leaves an empty spot in the MS2 class that the school can't fill. The OP will then be taking up another spot in the MS1 class, so the school will only be getting 5 years of tuition out of the OP, instead of 8 years of tuition out of 2 students. Hopefully that made grammatical sense.

At my school, a person that repeats does not take up a spot in the incoming M1 class. They just add to the already full class.

 

[71263]

Tough it out. Grades from basic science dont matter too much, and its better than spending an extra year of your life as a student. If you dont have to do it, try not to.

 

[OncoCaP]

Please, please stop writing these long posts before you put both feet in your mouth again. I know you are very well intentioned, but this does not come across very well.

Fair enough: I'll work on keeping the length down. I'm not trying to impress anyone, and when I say something wrong, I learn from it.

 

[1Path]

I gave the OP my opinion based on what they said and my own life experiences. If you have a problem with my confidence, that's your problem, not mine. The OP didn't seem to have an issue with my comments, so I'm not sure who made you the hall monitor around here.

THANK YOU and I actually appreciate you sharing your point of view AND experiences!

 

[Law2Doc]

Just throwing this out there, but what about people who say that M2 is far more important for step 1? Is it possible for someone to get back on track enough during the second year to both do well and nail the USMLE?

M2 is much more high yeild for Step 1. It is thus a much better indicator of how prepared you are for the boards. So sure, if you struggled in first year, but were able to turn it up a notch and do decently in second year, you are still in the hunt.

 

[OncoCaP]

THANK YOU and I actually appreciate you sharing your point of view AND experiences!

You're very welcome. I appreciate your comments around SDN as well.

 

[gujuDoc]

Wow, I really appreciate all the insight... and lo and behold, someone from my own school

So I guess I should have made it more clear that there is flexibility in my exam-taking... my main debate is, will I be able to ace the boards and overall do well in my career ahead having half-assed my first year? Is the idea that if I repeat the year, I'll be much better prepared too idealistic? Is it just possible to remediate it all over the summer and not be too behind?

I've spent the year essentially reading notes and cramming, instead of reading relevant chapters in Boron and Robbins... i.e. haven't reached my full potential... I WANT to do well and believe I can... but are boards review books and self-study over the summer enough? Do I need an intensive re-do? I want to do well on my boards to keep my options open... (at the moment, they involve EM or Surgery)...

I feel like I have a foot in each option... oof...

I don't normally respond to allo forums cuz I'm not in med school but there is one thing I can say on this topic that may be of benefit to you.

I am currently applying for an IMS program that is essentially everything the first year class does with the exception of clinical learning classes such as LCE preceptorships.

Anyhow, it is my understanding from the Program director that those students who did the year 1 curricula as an IMS student and then went onto the med school did not score higher in their first year of actual med school despite retaking essentially all the science classes. They did not do horrible in the sense that they were near the average but they were not top of the class despite having seen the material before in the IMS year. So it is not safe to assume that repeating will have a big impact. That said, your circumstances are unique so its hard to tell what effect repeating would have on your understanding of material, doing well on boards, and overall.

 

[StunnedKangaroo]

So I decided to look at SDN for the first time in a while, saw this thread, and thought, "Hey, one of my friends is in this situation!"
...then I saw who started the thread.

I can't vote; I'm biased
I'm torn! I want you to do well and be prepared for boards and rotations (and I do not want you to compromise your recovery trying to keep up with GI), but I'll sure miss you in ghetto 26 if you don't move on with us! I know the administration and the module leaders have not been the most helpful people when it comes to helping you make the right decision or making it easy for you to stay on top of things, but at least you know (or should know) that you have peers backing up whatever decision you make. I'm stubborn...I think I would try to keep up unless it blew up in my face...not that I'm recommending that, of course!

I thought I'd update everyone on my decision... I DO have amazing classmates who are ready to back me up and help me study, and like MeowMix, I'm going to ignore my dean's advice and stick it through... I've been listening to the lectures I missed by downloading the files from online (God I wish we had videos... note to all you Pre-Meds out there... choose your med school wisely! They're not all the same!)... I'll most likely be done with those tomorrow.. and by Friday, I can actually start studying for the exam... three days is cutting it VERY close (for GI - ugh, I'm not even going to THINK about the cases) but I have to take this first step...

If I can pass Monday's exam, then I still have to pass the Metabolism exam, as well as fight for my points regarding PBL/Case participation... but based on everyone's advice, plus my own self-confidence that has started to build as I've been studying, I agree... repeating the year will not necessarily improve my board performance, nor make me a better physician...

I've realized that I've learned a lot more than I thought I did this past year... not going to waste it now!

Thanks Guys!!

- DG, Class of 2010 (I hope!)

 

[StunnedKangaroo]

Oh and by the way... the poll results were an even 80:20... you can guess which was which

 

[OncoCaP]

You have a neat opportunity to make it all work out w/o a repeat! I'm rooting for yah!

 

[Pontifex Maximus]

I think you made the right call, aside from physiology, first year is pretty useless as far as Step 1 goes. Hope all goes well!

 

[smq123]

I thought I'd update everyone on my decision... I DO have amazing classmates who are ready to back me up and help me study, and like MeowMix, I'm going to ignore my dean's advice and stick it through... I've been listening to the lectures I missed by downloading the files from online (God I wish we had videos... note to all you Pre-Meds out there... choose your med school wisely! They're not all the same!)... I'll most likely be done with those tomorrow.. and by Friday, I can actually start studying for the exam... three days is cutting it VERY close (for GI - ugh, I'm not even going to THINK about the cases) but I have to take this first step...

If I can pass Monday's exam, then I still have to pass the Metabolism exam, as well as fight for my points regarding PBL/Case participation... but based on everyone's advice, plus my own self-confidence that has started to build as I've been studying, I agree... repeating the year will not necessarily improve my board performance, nor make me a better physician...

I've realized that I've learned a lot more than I thought I did this past year... not going to waste it now!

Thanks Guys!!

- DG, Class of 2010 (I hope!)

Good luck, good luck, good luck!!!

 

[vtucci]

don't 80-90% of Ivy leaguers graduate with honors?! so practically speaking, grades from ivy league are like grad school grades.

1st yr grades do matter as it is used for AOA determination, etc. But overall, like everyone else has said, do well from here on out and you don't have to worry too much. good luck!

80-90% of ivy leaguers do not graduate with honors. It may be true that the average at Stanford and Harvard where 3.7 but it was not the case for Yale (at least when I graduated). Yale permitted only the top 30% to graduate with honors and our average was not anywhere 3.7.

I barely passed MS1 and am now pleasantly surprised by MS2. I love my courses and you could not pay me enough to repeat MS1.

 

[vtucci]

I thought I'd update everyone on my decision... I DO have amazing classmates who are ready to back me up and help me study, and like MeowMix, I'm going to ignore my dean's advice and stick it through... I've been listening to the lectures I missed by downloading the files from online (God I wish we had videos... note to all you Pre-Meds out there... choose your med school wisely! They're not all the same!)... I'll most likely be done with those tomorrow.. and by Friday, I can actually start studying for the exam... three days is cutting it VERY close (for GI - ugh, I'm not even going to THINK about the cases) but I have to take this first step...

If I can pass Monday's exam, then I still have to pass the Metabolism exam, as well as fight for my points regarding PBL/Case participation... but based on everyone's advice, plus my own self-confidence that has started to build as I've been studying, I agree... repeating the year will not necessarily improve my board performance, nor make me a better physician...

I've realized that I've learned a lot more than I thought I did this past year... not going to waste it now!

Thanks Guys!!

- DG, Class of 2010 (I hope!)

Good luck on the test and let us know how it went!!

 

[StunnedKangaroo]

I PASSSSSSEDDDDD!!! D

 

[Law2Doc]

I PASSSSSSEDDDDD!!! D

Congrats. What didn't kill you will make you stronger.

 

[OncoCaP]

Way to go!! Hopefully you will be able to continue on without any major distractions from here onward.

 

[Tired Pigeon]

Congratulations!

 

[naegleria brain]

The bottom line is that pain avoidance is not always the winning strategy. The easiest thing would be just to drop out of medical school and avoid this suffering altogether. If it was really that bad, this would be the best option and everyone's suggestion (unlike many other life situations that the OP could find him/herself in). I don't see anyone suggesting that. I also find it extremely humorous that some people think that med school is so bad that no one would want to repeat a year when very few people actually drop out and thousands of people want to get in.

If MS1 & MS2 was hell on earth >90% of the people would drop out every year at every school and medical schools would need to lower standards to a GED or below to get people to sign up (like recruiting bomb disposal crews for Iraq maybe). I've informally polled maybe 100 people (physicians, students, residents, etc.) about their experiences. The preclinical experience depends on many factors (like what school you go to, your study efficiency, whether you like PBL, etc.), and there are even people who enjoy it (treat it like a 9-5 job) and rock their STEP 1s. It's not like everyone finds MS1 & MS2 to be torture. I would dare say that about 80% of the people I spoke with said that MS1 & MS2 were a ton of studying and intense but not so bad that most people are looking to quit and leave at the first opportunity. I've never heard an MS1 or MS2 say, "Wow, that was rough; I bet MS3 and residency are going to be a cakewalk after this." Some people with 4.0's from top schools and high MCATs even said MS1 & 2 was 'easier than their UG' (engineers). Sure there are gunners who skip meals and forgo hygiene and agonize over the the fact that they must H's everything. There are people who are fighting tooth an nail just to pass. However, for most people it seems to be UG on speed as you say. Tough but doable.

If you want a famous reference, take a look at Panda's blog. Life as an MS1 & MS2 was good for him. He worked out and had time for life. He would probably trade the lifestyle of an MS1 for being an EM resident in a microsecond. He's not the only one who feels that way either. As far as other non-medical experiences, go, quit acting like med students are the only ones who work hard. There are engineers who work harder than med students and take all kinds of abuse but they plug away (and some of those jobs do have very high turnover). People take abuse in all kinds of jobs, whether it is patroling the streets of Bagdad, washing dishes in a steak house, working 120 hour weeks during a chemical plant turnaround, or just working for an abusive boss in a dead-end job because the economy is bad. If it came down to repeating MS1 or being stuck for the rest of my life in a medical specialty I didn't like I would repeat MS1. It's 1 year of pain versus 40 years of hell; sometimes it helps to think about the future as well.

while i usually enjoy your posts, and find this comparison very inspirational, it's not entirely accurate. this is one of the points where you have to be a med student to understand
it's been said previously, hindsight is 20/20, and surely, anyone looking back will think, oh yeah i got through med school, it was okay. but they have nothing to remind them of the hell they went through at that phase, and how they "never before experienced something like this". each step further is a push, and the fact that you're moving forward is a source of encouragement. stagnating via repeat would be frustrating beyond belief.

yes, some engineers work more. yes, some people take more abuse. but i highly doubt there is a field where the average worker foregoes as much as an average medical student. it's not about waking up at 5am to hit the books, and leaving at midnight. it's about doing it day in and day out, for four years. even the hardest working engineers i know have downtime, as an MS2, i havent had "down-time" since christmas

medical school is absolute hell, and it's something no one can fathom until they actually get here. but yes, it's doable. the question here though is REPEATING that year. it takes a special kind of person to do that. those in the medical field, after constantly beating their heads against their walls for years, take further abuse in residency for another 3-8 years. even these people, if you rewind them to first year, and ask them to repeat that year, i'm certain a significant percentage would move on to something else.

we make the sacrifice because we move forward. not doing so makes us question the hell we put ourselves through, and rightly so.

the Baghdad argument doesn't hold. their hell is physical. they are in mortal danger. med students are not; our abuse is of a completely different flavor. one cannot make a comparison unless he/she has experienced both sides, and a military comparison is apples to oranges. an engineer vs. a medical student is more comparable, and i'm sure on this forum you can find many engineers-turned-medical students to get a more representative picture

and i've yet to meet someone who says undergrad was harder, unless they had a 4.0 in P-chem from MIT or CalTech and now just decide to coast with the philosophy P=MD. im sure they exist, but they are not at all the average medical student.

to the OP, what are your career plans? Do you want derm? then you may have to make the herculean sacrifice of repeating. Do you want to be a general practitioner, or something via internal medicine? then tough it out, it can be done.

 

[njbmd]

I'm in the middle of my first year, second semester, and it's all been one helluva train wreck... I got into multiple car accidents my first semester, along with a snowstorm that left me w/o heat or electricity for a week... that, along with a bunch of other drama lead me to fail the first intro/fundamentals class offered at my school... which I'm now re-taking in the summer... that in it of itself was a blow, but I vowed to do better spring semester and pray that all the bad luck was behind me...

I was doing well this semester (i.e. Honors in my classes) until I had to have major abdominal surgery which has now left me in the middle of our GI module not knowing what the hell to do... I have the option of cramming Metabolism and GI and barely getting by, hence not repeating the year, or taking an official leave of absence and repeating the entire first year..

My dilemma involves the boards and my future career... is it possible to still be a good physician/do well on the boards after half-assing your first year? My conscience says to repeat the year, and yet everyone around me is saying that's the last thing I should be doing... apparently boards studying is independent of classroom material, and yet I'm not sure if I can re-learn everything from scratch on my own... then again, will repeating the year be worth it? Considering I won't be getting any grades for any classes minus the one I failed...

Also... how bad is it to have failed a class? (Mind you, with a 64)... according to my dean, it disqualifies me immediately for a bunch of programs... and yet some say 1st year grades dont matter? Help!

You have had enough at this point to look at taking the LOA and coming back to fight another year. With your major illness, you can easily explain repeating the year. It is not likely that you have retained enough material from your coursework to have the basis for a solid review for boards. A residency program director will not even consider your first attempt at first year since you were ill and were involved in a trauma.

Failing a course is not the end of the world as long as you can get that information at some point in the future. From your description above, it sounds like you are in danger of failing a second course because of major illness. If this is the case, take the LOA and never look back. The most that you will lose is the time and money. If you fail another class, you might likely find that not only will you not be able to do well on Boards, you may be out of school with no means to return.

No patient is every going to ask you how long it took you to graduate from medical school. No residency program director is going to care that you took a LOA as long as you come back strong, healthy and ready to give your studies the attention that they demand. You will have an excellent chance of doing well on Step I if you have a solid knowledge base from which to review.

Only you can decide what is best for yourself but I believe that you Dean is giving you an opportunity to start fresh and you should give this option strong consideration. USMLE Step I can be quite unforgiving.

 

[pristine21]

Tough it out... you wouldn't have remembered the material that you were supposed to have learned anyway, plus you could be like me and just suck at basic science and rock at path (I did below average 1st year sometimes close to failing and have recieved honors on 2 exams during 2nd year and above average on all but one)

GOOD LUCK

 

[OncoCaP]

while i usually enjoy your posts, and find this comparison very inspirational, it's not entirely accurate. this is one of the points where you have to be a med student to understand
it's been said previously, hindsight is 20/20, and surely, anyone looking back will think, oh yeah i got through med school, it was okay. ...

Yes, I learned a lot from this thread (and others). The older I get the more I know that I don't know. Knowing that I'll have wrong impressions and ideas doesn't make me shy about expressing my opinion; in fact, expressing an opinion on a forum like this is a great way to test one's assumptions and ideas and correct incorrect ones. When my ideas / suggestions / thoughts are wrong (as they will be for someone who hasn't been through the medical school experience yet or even for people going through med school sometimes), I like finding that out so that I can correct my thinking and approach medical school with the best perspective / attitude possible. If you know you are going to get a sharp kick to the abdomen, you can brace yourself sometimes. I know there are going to be some frustrating times, so I can prepare myself for that as much as one can in advance and deal with it in the best possible way when I do experience it.

 

[StunnedKangaroo]

Tough it out... you wouldn't have remembered the material that you were supposed to have learned anyway, plus you could be like me and just suck at basic science and rock at path (I did below average 1st year sometimes close to failing and have recieved honors on 2 exams during 2nd year and above average on all but one)

GOOD LUCK

As I study for Renal (on a gorgeous sunny Sunday mind you)... I thought I'd come back here check what was up... I wish I could start a new thread for anyone who has been in my position... I got screwed over big time by my school in the sense that I missed an exam first semester because of a car accident, and it was all initially fudged over and I was too busy dealing with insurance and lawyers to figure it out... and now, since they figured out someone else failed the same course, they're making me repeat it... fine... it ruins my summer plans, but you know what? A lot of stuff I'm doing right now is based on what I was supposed to learn last semester, and what I find myself doing is slowly making up for what I didn't quite get the first time... NOW... it's about perseverance... if you have the motivation to go back and re-learn what you think you missed the first time around, you CAN make it up... like many people have commented, it really depends on the individual... but as far as thinking that repeating the year will make you do better on your boards, I don't think that anymore... as long as you have SEEN the material before, you can review it, and there is NO doubt that if you learned it well the first time around, obviously the second time is much more efficient, but even if our study habits and time management skills may suck, we're all smart enough to do this... I've been acing Renal (knock on wood) and I plan on acing the rest of my classes this semester... life doesn't always work out the way you want it to... and I wanted perfection because I've always had it, but in the end, there's a lot more to it.. good board scores and 3rd year rotations... life ain't over and there's MUCH more I can do with what I consider now my "extra year"... I might go out an do my MBA... or if I do well on my boards, maybe I'll take a year off and do something to improve my chances of residency... I guess the point of all this babbling is really just to let anyone who is reading this know that, no matter WHAT happens, it just isn't over... and don't let anyone tell you otherwise... just like perfect candidates are getting rejected from college and people with 36's and 3.9's are not getting into med school, perfect grades and board scores don't guarantee anything either... you just keep going, decide what is best for your sanity... be honest with yourself and remember that sometimes, the complications in the world work in your favor... i.e. there are a lot more loopholes out there than you think...

Repeating the year would have been a slap in my face, looking back on it now, because I wouldn't be getting grades for anything I'd already taken so it would be auditing stuff mostly, and hell, I don't remember the equations I spit out last week on my first Renal exam, so even if I do re-take all my basic classes, what will that do? I'm USING what I was supposed to learn last semester now, so anything I don't understand, I go back and look it up... I gave up an amazing Neurosurg Internship/research opportunity this summer, but who cares? Fluff is great, but from all the information I've gathered inthe past few months from firsthand sources, fluff again, is fluff... you have people entering med school after doing their PhD's... their CV's are going to be a helluva lot fatter than yours, but does that put you down? No! I had a bunch of 3rd, 4th years, and residents sit me down and tell me exactly why I just need to keep going... and if anyone is interested, I'd be happy to supply more info (in a more coherent manner than I am right now since I'm just babbling )... do your own homework and find out where to put your eggs... don't just listen to random people around you and freak the hell out... explore... and most importantly... relax... and this is coming from a Type A, 4.0, My-world-will-end-if-I-don't-get-that-A...

Meanwhile... figure out what you REALLY want from life... cheesy... but hey, it took me a laparotomy and a bunch of oxy's to get my mind to even think about it...

 

[OncoCaP]

Thanks for the update, StunnedKangaroo! It's pretty cool to read about your experience and to see how this perseverance has really paid off for you! I sure hope that I don't experience the challenges that you have but, if I do, I'll remember what you said.

 

[docmode]

I'll put money on you succeeding! Achievers achieve despite problems along the way. Good job for hanging in there. I think you're going to make a great doc!

 

[RaaMD]

As I study for Renal (on a gorgeous sunny Sunday mind you)... I thought I'd come back here check what was up... I wish I could start a new thread for anyone who has been in my position... I got screwed over big time by my school in the sense that I missed an exam first semester because of a car accident, and it was all initially fudged over and I was too busy dealing with insurance and lawyers to figure it out... and now, since they figured out someone else failed the same course, they're making me repeat it... fine... it ruins my summer plans, but you know what? A lot of stuff I'm doing right now is based on what I was supposed to learn last semester, and what I find myself doing is slowly making up for what I didn't quite get the first time... NOW... it's about perseverance... if you have the motivation to go back and re-learn what you think you missed the first time around, you CAN make it up... like many people have commented, it really depends on the individual... but as far as thinking that repeating the year will make you do better on your boards, I don't think that anymore... as long as you have SEEN the material before, you can review it, and there is NO doubt that if you learned it well the first time around, obviously the second time is much more efficient, but even if our study habits and time management skills may suck, we're all smart enough to do this... I've been acing Renal (knock on wood) and I plan on acing the rest of my classes this semester... life doesn't always work out the way you want it to... and I wanted perfection because I've always had it, but in the end, there's a lot more to it.. good board scores and 3rd year rotations... life ain't over and there's MUCH more I can do with what I consider now my "extra year"... I might go out an do my MBA... or if I do well on my boards, maybe I'll take a year off and do something to improve my chances of residency... I guess the point of all this babbling is really just to let anyone who is reading this know that, no matter WHAT happens, it just isn't over... and don't let anyone tell you otherwise... just like perfect candidates are getting rejected from college and people with 36's and 3.9's are not getting into med school, perfect grades and board scores don't guarantee anything either... you just keep going, decide what is best for your sanity... be honest with yourself and remember that sometimes, the complications in the world work in your favor... i.e. there are a lot more loopholes out there than you think...

Repeating the year would have been a slap in my face, looking back on it now, because I wouldn't be getting grades for anything I'd already taken so it would be auditing stuff mostly, and hell, I don't remember the equations I spit out last week on my first Renal exam, so even if I do re-take all my basic classes, what will that do? I'm USING what I was supposed to learn last semester now, so anything I don't understand, I go back and look it up... I gave up an amazing Neurosurg Internship/research opportunity this summer, but who cares? Fluff is great, but from all the information I've gathered inthe past few months from firsthand sources, fluff again, is fluff... you have people entering med school after doing their PhD's... their CV's are going to be a helluva lot fatter than yours, but does that put you down? No! I had a bunch of 3rd, 4th years, and residents sit me down and tell me exactly why I just need to keep going... and if anyone is interested, I'd be happy to supply more info (in a more coherent manner than I am right now since I'm just babbling )... do your own homework and find out where to put your eggs... don't just listen to random people around you and freak the hell out... explore... and most importantly... relax... and this is coming from a Type A, 4.0, My-world-will-end-if-I-don't-get-that-A...

Meanwhile... figure out what you REALLY want from life... cheesy... but hey, it took me a laparotomy and a bunch of oxy's to get my mind to even think about it...

Well said. Your grit and determinaton are obvious and these qualities will carry you a long way. Best of luck to you.

 

[naegleria brain]

congratulations buddy! now you know how far you can push yourself without breaking. you seem to do well in high pressure situations, and that kind of mettle isn't as common as you might think!

good luck for a bright future

 

[DaveinDallas]

Sorry -- next time I'll read the entire thread.....good luck and good hunting...

 

[The Angriest Bird]

I'd totally go with "tough it out" for the following reasons:

1. If you repeat and get straight A, it will still appear on your transcript: YOU REPEATED MS2. That looks just as bad as barely passing it.

2. You may think a bad second year will lower your Step 1 score. But many people agree that Step 1 score is more related to the 6-week-mad-cramming before Step 1 as opposed to a well-performed second year. Slackers getting 240+ happen a lot. A good 2nd year will help for sure, but you forget a lot of it anyway when it comes to Step 1.

3. You may think it will lead to a tough 3rd year. Well, I'm still a second year, but every third year told me "when it comes to ward, you know no **** anyway."

4. Money matters. 1 more year = +40k tuition - (-200k salary) = 240k dollars.

5. Acing some medical schools may be tough, but passing most med schools is usually easier than you thought. The problem is most often on your side, not the school.

 

[Orthodoc40]

Personally, yes, I would rather retake the year than have 2 failures on my transcript, but that's not a decision that I would make lightly.

But those 2 failures stay on your transcript, actually. Or are you saying to get out before those grades become failures?

OP, it is your decision at this point, you aren't being forced to do it, and I think it's good that your Dean gave you no bias in his/her response - so that you can make your own decision. I'll just throw in that the few people I know that have had to do some repeat work said going through it a 2nd time made them VERY strong for Step 1.

Uh - anyone notice this thread is over a year old?

 

[bitter9881]

Forward is always the best direction to move. I think residency programs would be more put off by a repeated first year than by sub-stellar grades your first time through. What you do in your first 2 years pales in comparison to 1) your performance on step 1, 2) your grades in clerkships, and 3) your recommendations, especially those coming from preceptors on away rotations.

Just make sure you keep yourself honest about brushing up on the material you had trouble with as you progress through your 2nd year and study for boards.

This thread is old, but that's my opinion for the OP and for anyone else reading who might have a similar dilemma.