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lurker884

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I'm honestly having trouble deciding what to do when they ask me what is the biggest problem in medicine. I think because so many doctors today are women and they work alot less than men do this is what's causing the doctor shortage in america. If every medical student was a man we would not have a doctor shortage, because men doctors work about 7 hours longer per week than women do, and their careers last on average about 6 more years. These are hard statistical facts that can't be disputed, yet I feel if I say this in an interview I wont get accepted because as we all know, in today's society, you have to be politically correct to get ahead. Should I be honest or be PC?
 

MiesVanDerMom

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the shortage of doctors is in underserved areas. so the problem is rich suburban people who don't want to live in BFE and help poor people. There, I solved your problem. And the other solution would be if men in the United States did their shar of housework and childcare which statistically, they most definately do not. And if men spent less time starting up flame-war type threads on SDN. Hopefully you're going into Ob-Gyn since you're obviously so in tune with the problems modern women face...
 

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lurker884 said:
Should I be honest or be PC?
Depends... do you want to get into medical school or hang yourself for espousing your beliefs? There'll be plenty of time to be opinionated and un-PC after you're a doc... I wouldn't screw it up now by possibly offending your interviewer (especially if it turns out that you're being interviewed by a woman!)

Oh yeah... cite those statistics.
 

jackieMD2007

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You might get more responses to this in the lounge. There are a lot of things on here that are offensive to a lot of people, and this "argument" you're making is not about political correctness, but about something much more ugly.
 

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You have a weak basis for argument. Women doctors might take a little time off for maternity leave or whatever, but they tend to be much less likely to be married than women in the general population and all sorts of stuff like that. Most of what I've read on the subject suggests that women are generally forced to put their careers first even if they'd like to spend more time frivolously raising their families. Besides, any hours issue is solved most simply by training more doctors. There aren't 17,000 qualified men per year, so women have to be part of the solution.
 

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lurker884 said:
I'm honestly having trouble deciding what to do when they ask me what is the biggest problem in medicine. I think because so many doctors today are women and they work alot less than men do this is what's causing the doctor shortage in america. If every medical student was a man we would not have a doctor shortage, because men doctors work about 7 hours longer per week than women do, and their careers last on average about 6 more years. These are hard statistical facts that can't be disputed, yet I feel if I say this in an interview I wont get accepted because as we all know, in today's society, you have to be politically correct to get ahead. Should I be honest or be PC?
Are you serious? The biggest problem in medicine is female doctors. Yea, don't say that during an interview, that's my opinion. Female docotors are some of the best docotor I have ever had in terms of bed side manner and competence. If I were you I look outside the relam of gender problems... insurance problems, underserved areas, etc...
 

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lurker884 said:
http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/robot_pages/MeetingAbstracts/102274322.html

If you seriously do at least 2 minutes of research on this topic you will see that women work much less than men do. If all med students were men we wouldn't have a doctor shortage in america
when med schools ask you what you think the biggest problem is, they're gonna want to know how you would propose to solve that problem. your solution seems to involve only men being able to be doctors (unless you have something else in mind that you haven't mentioned) and if you say that, you're almost guaranteeing a rejection, in my opinion.
 

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c'mon man, you can't discriminate against anybody unless they are white male heterosexuals. Don't you know anything?
;)
 

jackieMD2007

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It is obvious that the OP has some sexist attitudes that none of us are going to be able to change. He may even be a misogynist.
 

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I think you should avoid mentioning your feelings in this matter until after you are accepted. Think about another problem in medicine... I'm sure you can find one.
 

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lurker884 said:
http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/robot_pages/MeetingAbstracts/102274322.html

If you seriously do at least 2 minutes of research on this topic you will see that women work much less than men do. If all med students were men we wouldn't have a doctor shortage in america
First, this article applies to Pediatrics, a speciality with a lot of women who work part time. This is nothing new, and in no way reflects any doctor shortage...in fact, the authors state "For all specialties, if part-time status is controlled for, there are no significant differences in patient care hours worked between male and female physicians."

If you present this sort of evidence to defend your point, the adcoms will laugh all the way to mailing your rejection letter.
 

jackieMD2007

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lurker884 said:
http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/robot_pages/MeetingAbstracts/102274322.html

If you seriously do at least 2 minutes of research on this topic you will see that women work much less than men do. If all med students were men we wouldn't have a doctor shortage in america
Look at the Population they studied: "POPULATION STUDIED: Responses from pediatricians, which represent approximately 10% of respondents, were compared to those of respondents in all other specialties. The pediatrician group included general pediatricians and pediatric subspecialists. Overall, the gender of the respondents was 64% male and 36% female."

I don't think you can make sweeping generalizations for the entire profession based on one study in one sub-specialty.

Also, it should be noted (which we have discussed many times on here before) that the AAMC is working to curb the physician shortage by getting the enrollment in med schools increased.
 

jackieMD2007

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ADeadLois said:
First, this article applies to Pediatrics, a speciality with a lot of women who work part time. This is nothing new, and in no way reflects any doctor shortage...in fact, the authors state "For all specialties, if part-time status is controlled for, there are no significant differences in patient care hours worked between male and female physicians."

If you present this sort of evidence to defend your point, the adcoms will laugh all the way to mailing your rejection letter.
There you go.
 

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Just be PC during applications and interviews, then once you get in you can go nuts with whatever advocacy you want!
 

jackieMD2007

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Yes, you're going to be extremely popular with the young women in your class when you let them know that you have this sexist attitude. Good :luck: with that one.
:smuggrin:
 

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Why would you want to control for part-time status? That eliminates a significant portion of this entire argument, and it therefore should not be a control. Don't control for part-time status and then look at the numbers. What a dumb study.
 

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lurker884 said:
I'm honestly having trouble deciding what to do when they ask me what is the biggest problem in medicine. I think because so many doctors today are women and they work alot less than men do this is what's causing the doctor shortage in america. If every medical student was a man we would not have a doctor shortage, because men doctors work about 7 hours longer per week than women do, and their careers last on average about 6 more years. These are hard statistical facts that can't be disputed, yet I feel if I say this in an interview I wont get accepted because as we all know, in today's society, you have to be politically correct to get ahead. Should I be honest or be PC?
There are a lot of problems with healthcare but this isn't really one of them. Even taking your post seriously, which I don't, replacing all the women in med school with men would not really address any of the problems an interviewer might raise. The underserved areas won't see more doctors because replacing a woman one for one with a man still doesn't divert them to the neediest populations. It doesn't affect the fact that most people have no health insurance. It doesn't affect the fact that cigarette related illness is a drain on healthcare. It doesn't combat the cost of drugs, technology, the spread of AIDS, bird flu, the risk of a future epidemic, etc. I think you need to go back to the drawing board. :)
 

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=12405232&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum

It is nothing to be ashamed about. Working fewer hours is not a big deal. The study above found that female physicians in those 4 countries (US included) worked 7-11 fewer hours per week.

CONCLUSIONS of the STUDY: Work force planners should anticipate larger decreases in physician full-time equivalencies than previously expected because of the increased number of women in practice and their tendency to work fewer hours and to be in part-time practice, especially in primary care.

Back to the OP - I would not bring this up in an interview because you never know who you are going to offend or brush the wrong way. This is not one of medicine's serious problems, and accepting only men will not alleviate the physician shortage. However, there is no reason for people on this board to be in denial of reality. People aren't sexist when they say that women physicians work fewer hours.
 

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VPDcurt said:
because you never know who you are going to offend or brush the wrong way.
Oh, I think one could have a pretty good idea... :)
 

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Law2Doc said:
Oh, I think one could have a pretty good idea... :)
Haha yeah seriously...especially if a female physician is the one interviewing that day.
 

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VPDcurt said:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=12405232&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum

It is nothing to be ashamed about. Working fewer hours is not a big deal. The study above found that female physicians in those 4 countries (US included) worked 7-11 fewer hours per week.

CONCLUSIONS of the STUDY: Work force planners should anticipate larger decreases in physician full-time equivalencies than previously expected because of the increased number of women in practice and their tendency to work fewer hours and to be in part-time practice, especially in primary care.

Back to the OP - I would not bring this up in an interview because you never know who you are going to offend or brush the wrong way. This is not one of medicine's serious problems, and accepting only men will not alleviate the physician shortage. However, there is no reason for people on this board to be in denial of reality. People aren't sexist when they say that women physicians work fewer hours.
No, but concluding that female physicians are the cause of the doctor shortage is.
 

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Is PC politically correct? And if so, what topics are heavily debated about besides the gender issue presented by the OP? I know a few, but I'm pretty sure I don't know them all, especially not in depth.
 

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Although others have already adequately pointed out how ill-formed and inaccurate your argument is, perhaps you should write about this in your essay. One more available space for anyone else applying to that school....

P.S. Don't forget to add that women should be kept barefoot and pregnant as well. Good Luck!

lurker884 said:
I'm honestly having trouble deciding what to do when they ask me what is the biggest problem in medicine. I think because so many doctors today are women and they work alot less than men do this is what's causing the doctor shortage in america. If every medical student was a man we would not have a doctor shortage, because men doctors work about 7 hours longer per week than women do, and their careers last on average about 6 more years. These are hard statistical facts that can't be disputed, yet I feel if I say this in an interview I wont get accepted because as we all know, in today's society, you have to be politically correct to get ahead. Should I be honest or be PC?
 

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Compass said:
Is PC politically correct? And if so, what topics are heavily debated about besides the gender issue presented by the OP? I know a few, but I'm pretty sure I don't know them all, especially not in depth.
yes, PC is politically correct. I think its a stretch to say this topic is heavilly debated, though, except perhaps in this thread.
 

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jackieMD2007 said:
No, but concluding that female physicians are the cause of the doctor shortage is.
They may contribute to an unrealized shortage, but it's not because they are female, it's because they happen to work fewer hours. Attributing the shortage to females based solely on gender is sexist. That's not really what the study is saying though. There is correlation without causality here, and that cannot be ignored.
 

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wait...i got a better idea....

we dont let women, homosexuals, African Americans, disabled people, hispanics, immigrants, native Americans, anybody registered with the democratic party, anybody thats not registered with the NRA, the french, or anybody whose name I cannot pronouce be a doctor. That would definetly solve the problems in this country.
 

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lurker884 said:
http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/robot_pages/MeetingAbstracts/102274322.html

If you seriously do at least 2 minutes of research on this topic you will see that women work much less than men do. If all med students were men we wouldn't have a doctor shortage in america
I read the article but I still think there is something wrong with your logic. I could be way off but it seems that if a speciality (like pediatrics) has a high percenage of female doctors its because women have a higher preference for that field, where as men probably have a lower preference relative to other specialities. The article suggests that an effort needs to be made to have a greater gender balance in those fields, but having all male doctors would only make a shortage problem in certain specialities worse. If there were only male doctors, then you'd probably have a greater shortage of pediatricians since men seemingly has less desire to be in that field. You'd end up having a lower number of total applicants that want to be in certain fields like pediatrics. I don't have statistics but I'd willing to bet a lot of money that the number of female applicants to pediatrics is far greater than the number of males. At the end of the day, none of this addresses the real issue of doctor shortages in underserved areas. Seriously dude, even if the adcom people didn't care about being PC, saying that there should only male doctors sounds unbelievably ignorant no matter what stats you quote, especially if those stats are taken out of context. Even if the article making a blanket statement that there should be more doctors across the board in every speciality (which I don't think it is), at no point does it suggest that there shouldn't be female doctors or that we should stopping admitting women to medical school.
 

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Compass said:
Is PC politically correct? And if so, what topics are heavily debated about besides the gender issue presented by the OP? I know a few, but I'm pretty sure I don't know them all, especially not in depth.
Women in medicine isn't really being debated anymore at this level (the level of should we admit them to med school). That's been pretty well settled, this thread notwithstanding. Instead, it's being debated in terms of accommodations for maternity, family and whatnot and the possibility of continuing discrimination in certain specialties or programs. The AA debate seems to be the most popular here on SDN.
 

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Brainsucker said:
The AA debate seems to be the most popular here on SDN.
The Chuck Norris vs. Jack Bauer debate is pretty popular too...
 

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Brainsucker said:
Women in medicine isn't really being debated anymore at this level (the level of should we admit them to med school). That's been pretty well settled, this thread notwithstanding. Instead, it's being debated in terms of accommodations for maternity, family and whatnot and the possibility of continuing discrimination in certain specialties or programs. The AA debate seems to be the most popular here on SDN.
Whoa...is that a quote from "Commando" in your signature? That's incredible. Great flick - terrible soundtrack though.
 

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I say go ahead, and tell them your "problem".
That'll be one more spot for some lucky other student as the adcomm laughs at your face.
Oh and by the way, adcomms can be women too. Weird, isn't it? If they spent more time at the hospital instead of interviewing students, there would be no shortage of doctors...

In all seriousness though, medical schools reject thousands of qualified students every year who could have made fine doctors.
By increasing admissions, it would help the problems. I do not really know about all the details entailed there, nor whether or not there are problems associated with this "solution", but it is for sure, more valid than the women vs men debate..
 

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lurker884 said:
I'm honestly having trouble deciding what to do when they ask me what is the biggest problem in medicine. I think because so many doctors today are women and they work alot less than men do this is what's causing the doctor shortage in america. If every medical student was a man we would not have a doctor shortage, because men doctors work about 7 hours longer per week than women do, and their careers last on average about 6 more years. These are hard statistical facts that can't be disputed, yet I feel if I say this in an interview I wont get accepted because as we all know, in today's society, you have to be politically correct to get ahead. Should I be honest or be PC?
I encourage you to be honest about your feelings in your secondaries and in your interviews. If you feel this is a large problem, you should work to change it and the first step is letting your voice be heard. Don't let yourself be silenced because of what other people might think.

Besides, I'm sure your forthrightness will be a breath of fresh air for those you come in contact with.

Please do keep us posted on your decision and its results for you.
 

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Ok, you all either a.) fell into a troll trap or b.) made him look like an idiot if it was a serious post. We don't need 20 more posts saying "do it..one more spot for someone else!" , so let's nuke it here.

If we want to discuss gender issues in medicine, let's start a new thread shall we?

And no responses fewer than 3 sentences. ;-) Makes the board unreadable, and I think we can muster the brainpower.
 

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TCIrish03 said:
Ok, you all either a.) fell into a troll trap or b.) made him look like an idiot if it was a serious post. We don't need 20 more posts saying "do it..one more spot for someone else!" , so let's nuke it here.

If we want to discuss gender issues in medicine, let's start a new thread shall we?

And no responses fewer than 3 sentences. ;-) Makes the board unreadable, and I think we can muster the brainpower.
Oh, pshaw. I was having fun.

And, yes, I'm intentionally going to break your 3 sentence rule because that's just silly. ;-)
 

Law2Doc

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MollyMalone said:
Oh, pshaw. I was having fun.

And, yes, I'm intentionally going to break your 3 sentence rule because that's just silly. ;-)
Agreed. The shorter the better.
 

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TCIrish03 said:
Ok, you all either a.) fell into a troll trap or b.) made him look like an idiot if it was a serious post. We don't need 20 more posts saying "do it..one more spot for someone else!" , so let's nuke it here.

If we want to discuss gender issues in medicine, let's start a new thread shall we?

And no responses fewer than 3 sentences. ;-) Makes the board unreadable, and I think we can muster the brainpower.
IT;'s not really men vs women issues actually, it is the fact that the OP is suggesting that we get rid of women in medicine. He won't go very far with that kind of thinking....
 

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MiesVanDerMom said:
the shortage of doctors is in underserved areas. so the problem is rich suburban people who don't want to live in BFE and help poor people. There, I solved your problem. And the other solution would be if men in the United States did their shar of housework and childcare which statistically, they most definately do not. And if men spent less time starting up flame-war type threads on SDN. Hopefully you're going into Ob-Gyn since you're obviously so in tune with the problems modern women face...
Oh yeah... modern women have lots of problems. Give me a break.
 

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By all means, carry on. I have no aw-thor-i-tie here.

Eh, sorry I'm cranky about the 3 sentence rule....it's just annoying having to read a bunch of one-liners until you find a post with some substance.

MollyMalone said:
Oh, pshaw. I was having fun.

And, yes, I'm intentionally going to break your 3 sentence rule because that's just silly. ;-)
 

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ChymeChancellor said:
Oh yeah... modern women have lots of problems. Give me a break.
oh no, can we please avoid a discussion about which sex has it tougher? you couldn't possibly have posted that if you weren't trying to start another argument about genders.
 

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Erina said:
oh no, can we please avoid a discussion about which sex has it tougher? you couldn't possibly have posted that if you weren't trying to start another argument about genders.
:D
 

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jackieMD2007 said:
It is obvious that the OP has some sexist attitudes that none of us are going to be able to change. He may even be a misogynist.
it is obvious that this is a troll.

come on people. stop feeding the trolls.
 

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isobel said:
it is obvious that this is a troll.

come on people. stop feeding the trolls.
I happen to agree with the OP. If you do not want to listen to the truth go somewhere else! :D
 

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ChymeChancellor said:
I happen to agree with the OP. If you do not want to listen to the truth go somewhere else! :D[/QUOTE

The "truth" ? Without even giving us reasonable proof/statistics?

Oh man, we're in trouble.
 

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MinnyGophers said:
ChymeChancellor said:
I happen to agree with the OP. If you do not want to listen to the truth go somewhere else! :D[/QUOTE

The "truth" ? Without even giving us reasonable proof/statistics?

Oh man, we're in trouble.
The OP already posted the statistics genius!!! :oops:
 
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Hello everyone. I did not mean for this to turn into a big argument like it has. I honestly feel that many of the problems the medical profession has stem from women in medicine. If medicine was all men then the AVERAGE doctor would work more AVERAGE hours and thus more patients on AVERAGE would be seen per doctor in america.

The problem is, whenever I talk like this I am automatically labelled as a sexist/racist bigot. I think I am bringing up legitimate points. The fact of the matter is training a woman instead of a man causes thousands of patients to not have a doctor. Women are very seflish pursuing careers in medicine because they CAUSE all these problems so that they can live comfortable lives for themselves.

I dont know whether I should be honest or not in my interviews about how I feel
 

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VPDcurt said:
Whoa...is that a quote from "Commando" in your signature? That's incredible. Great flick - terrible soundtrack though.
I eat green berets for breakfast.
 
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