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UTSouthwestern

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In general, I encourage people from other specialties to participate in our forum. Mac, however, seems to want to simply antagonize everyone on this board by hijacking threads and starting new threads on the same topic over and over and over again.

Let's do him a favor and simply ignore any and all of his posts. I have and it's amazing how refreshing a feeling it is coming to this board again to discuss pertinent topics with those of us who are or aspire to be anesthesiologists.

I see that Mac posts here more than on his own field's board and thus I must come to the conclusion that he is unhappy with his chosen profession and rather than choose to address his own field, he wants to try and make other people share his misery. Perhaps he truly feels that anesthesiologists do not have a role in medicine and would like to see us replaced by CRNA's. Perhaps a tinge of envy of our earnings potential combined with a substantially better lifestyle has drawn his ire, but regardless, he seems to feel an incessant need to try to direct students away from anesthesiology.

To that I say, what a pity. He sees students with AOA, superior board scores, etc looking more and more toward our field and rather than let the merits of his own field (or future field) stand on their own, he feels a need to bash another in any way he can in the hopes of redirecting attention to his own.

So be it. If you want to be a surgeon, I wish you good luck in a noble field, but take heed of what you read about surgeons and what you see reflected in MacGyver and strive to be a better physician and person than Mac sinks to. Give credit where credit is due and never overlook the contributions of those whose professions serve to complement, not inhibit your own.

I salute the respected and peerless surgeons such as Duke Samson and James Valentine who acknowledge and respect the work that internists, anesthesiologists, and other specialists provide for theirs and others' patients without prejudice.

I pity the surgeons who have or will follow the attitude of MacGyver whose very signature line reflects an inflated ego and "god complex". For the sake of his patients, I pray that he is as good as he believes his judgement to be because I can forsee Mac refusing to ask for help when help is needed.

Enjoy your future Mac. Don't look back. Don't feel the stress. Most of all, don't try to tell internists, anesthesiologists, and others what they can and can't do. Bask in the glory of your own field and sing its praises because the time and effort you spend trying to bash this field shows that you aren't focusing enough on your own.
 

Skip Intro

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UTSouthwestern,

While I agree with you and think you've shared an interesting insight into MacGyver's potential motivations, technically your post is a violation of the Student Doctor Forums TOS. Just thought I'd give you a heads-up on that. But, while we're on topic...

His ilk has no regard for facts but only to serve and promulgate some twisted agenda, usually for some hidden personal gain that we can at best only speculate on. For some good reading on this phenomenon, I suggest taking a few minutes and perusing this page:

http://www.advicemeant.com/troll/index.shtml

Why do I respond? Because other people read these threads. Trolls thrive on the "mushroom theory" - trying to keep people in the dark and feeding them a bunch of crap. Providing facts is like spraying Clorox on such a fungus that tries to grow in a discussion.

Never give up the good fight, even if it gets a little heated. Respond to accusations with fact. You will win. But, if it turns into a circle jerk (as the other thread has), walk away. Never wrestle with a pig: you both get dirty except the pig likes it.

-Skip
 

MacGyver

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I'll ask you again Skip:

Are CRNAs required to be supervised by MDAs in all states or not?
 
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juddson

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This is a ridiculous thread. MacGyver, just like just about every other poster in these forums, participates and starts threads for little more reason than the intellectual stimulation. I think Mac is a premed and, as such, is not at all "vested" in any of the specialties and very doubtfully has an "agenda" other than, perhaps, to probe the fields for his own interest.

I'm a premed also and have always been interested in Gas. But, it seems to me, the best thing I can do for myself is to probe this field as much as I can to see where it is going. That means starting threads with the "hard questions", provoking responses, outrage, etc. It's a perfectly normal thing to do.

Besides that point, Mac is not a "troll". The tone of his responses don't bore than charge out. You may disagree with what he has to say, but you can't dismiss it simply by calling him a troll.

You may recall on another thread where Mac posted the link to the CRNA response (was that AANA, not sure anymore) to the BIG study suggesting that CRNA's without MDA supervision led to greater (substantially greater) M&M rates. I responded in a point by point manner to the AANA response to the study, pointing out that I thought the CRNA people got a lot of stuff wrong. BUT, the fact remains that the CRNA response was a well thought out rebuttal. It was backed by data, reason and logic, and seemed to be consderably better (I mean TONS better) than the ASA's own response to another study about CRNA effecacy.

I personally believe that Mac has an interested in Gas (I may be wrong - who knows, maybe he is a surgeon already - I don't know) and he's probing the field that best way he knows how. I can't blaim him. And quite frankly, merely accusing him of "chicken little" syndrome does not adequately respond to his charges.

One other thing: people who urge for the banning (or who urge others to ignore) other members of this forum protest TOO MUCH. It suggests that you are somehow threatened by Mac. I don't think that is true. But it gives that impression. He doesn't use profanity (for no reason), make personal remarks, etc., etc.. . as "trolls" are wont to do. You don't agree with him - that's fine. You think he makes outrageous statements, unsupported by the facts. Fine, fine. But you have to engage him on the merits.

Judd
 

UTSouthwestern

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Judd, I don't begrudge Mac his beliefs. I just don't see the need for him to corrupt other people's threads or bring up the same topic over and over again. It's kind of like someone continually getting in your face trying to talk to you about something that either A. You have already discussed or B. Aren't interested in discussing any more. Kind of like a Chihuahua nipping at your ankles because you don't want to pay attention to him.

If Mac wants to keep harping on CRNA's, let him start a separate thread and keep his arguments there. That won't happen because every time we let his thread die, he jumps into someone else's thread and hijacks it. That is just simply being . . . well I'll let you fill in the blanks.

In any event, I will abstain from reading any more useless Mac posts. My personal opinion is that we should simply ignore him from now on as we have all posted our facts and opinions too many times to count.
 

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Mac is stating these claims under the presupposition that financial incentive is a primary motivation for pursuing the field. If he is not, then he is without purpose and has nothing to prove or establish.

That being said, I simply don't care if nurse anesthetists acquire greater levels of autonomy. If they can do the same job, with the same success...I really could care less. Could this mean decreased wages/opportunities in the future? It might. Whatever the case will be, I'd much rather be doing something I love and getting paid less...than to be stuck doing something that bores me and getting paid more.

Let the people who are motivated to pursue medicine for the wrong reasons sweat over issues as this. It's a waste of time.
 

UTSouthwestern

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Well said hudson, however, I do believe that we need to contribute to the ASA and give them the ammunition to continue to represent us at the legislative level.
 

MacGyver

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Originally posted by hudsontc
That being said, I simply don't care if nurse anesthetists acquire greater levels of autonomy. If they can do the same job, with the same success...I really could care less. Could this mean decreased wages/opportunities in the future? It might. Whatever the case will be, I'd much rather be doing something I love and getting paid less...than to be stuck doing something that bores me and getting paid more.

Let the people who are motivated to pursue medicine for the wrong reasons sweat over issues as this. It's a waste of time.
I hope you are not going into gas. The "doesnt affect me" attitude is what got MDAs into this mess to begin with.

In fact, your attitude GUARANTEES that gas goes into the toilet after CRNAs capture increased market share. Hell, 65% of all gas in this country is already supplied by CRNAs. But dont worry, there will still be jobs for MDAs at 80k per year in the future.
 

powermd

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Originally posted by MacGyver
I hope you are not going into gas. The "doesnt affect me" attitude is what got MDAs into this mess to begin with.

In fact, your attitude GUARANTEES that gas goes into the toilet after CRNAs capture increased market share. Hell, 65% of all gas in this country is already supplied by CRNAs. But dont worry, there will still be jobs for MDAs at 80k per year in the future.

Just had to give him an 'in' didn't you? Mac doesn't just spread fear of mid-level practitioners on this board, but many others as well. Just do a search for his posts and you will see his litter everywhere. He seems to be obsessed with this topic. He posts like a troll, but my guess is there's something deeper to his motivation of which we can only speculate. And then, of course, there's his obnoxious signature. Hmm.. what's THAT about? Kind of a dumb movie to bother lifting quotations from.
 

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80k a year? So, anesthesiologists would actually be making less than anesthetists...by nearly ~1/3?:laugh:

Hey Mac, tell us again the story about american radiology becoming obsolete.:laugh:


Part of me wants to think that you're just trying to get people riled up. Then again, for such a sustained effort, another part of me wants to think you're just an idiot.

UT, I didn't intend to imply abandonment of organizations like the ASA. I totally agree.
 

MacGyver

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Originally posted by hudsontc
80k a year? So, anesthesiologists would actually be making less than anesthetists...by nearly ~1/3?:laugh:
My point is that if you dont start protecting your turf better, you are going to make equivalent salaries to CRNAs. If I said you'd make 100k instead of 80k (nat'l avg for CRNAs) does that make you feel better about the whole thing?

The market WILL NOT TOLERATE paying inflated salaries to MDAs when CRNAs that make half the $$$ can do 90% of what the MDAs do.

When that happens, the MDA field is going to die a slow death, as interest in gas will plummet and no new MDs will choose that as a field. Why the hell go to 4 years med school and years of residency just to do the same stuff and get paid the same money as a person who only went 2 years past college?

Hint: if you are going to school for years longer to get paid teh same as another person w/ the same duties, then you are a fool.
 

powermd

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Originally posted by MacGyver
My point is that if you dont start protecting your turf better, you are going to make equivalent salaries to CRNAs.
Mac, why are you so concerned about MDA's protecting their "turf"? Are you planning to go into anesthesia? I thought you were an MD/PhD going into surgery?
 
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Originally posted by powermd
Mac, why are you so concerned about MDA's protecting their "turf"? Are you planning to go into anesthesia? I thought you were an MD/PhD going into surgery?


Just ignore the idiot..........I just a recent anesthesiology graduate and STARTED at $300k/year. I'll let you all know (esp. MacGyver) when I make anything less than that.

FYI..........It will be many, many, many years from now, friends :laugh:
 

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As previously mentioned, this thread is a TOS violation so I'm closing it.

If you don't like what a poster has to say, don't read them or don't reply (or use the ignore function), but don't start threads about them.
 
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