To future OMFS applicants

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punchdrunk7 said:
How many externships is considered average among applicants? And how many look amazing in your/program directors eyes?
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To the best of my recollection, at least 3. We care more about whether you externed with us (and did a good job) than that you externed everywhere.
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Can a 75+ or an 80+ on the NBME help to make up for poor class rank (50th-75th percentile) at a fairly well known school (University of the Pacific)?

Other minor detail: Externships will be significant with several 1month externships. Publication in medical journal.
 
agent2362 said:
Can a 75+ or an 80+ on the NBME help to make up for poor class rank (50th-75th percentile) at a fairly well known school (University of the Pacific)?

Other minor detail: Externships will be significant with several 1month externships. Publication in medical journal.
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To be honest, if you're in the 75th percentile for class rank, you're going to have a difficult time. And it's very much going to depend on the program. Some programs weigh the NBME very heavily, and some barely give it a glance. If you're applying for a 6-year program, it's going to depend on their relationship with their medical school. Some medical schools really want a high NBME, some value class rank and undergrad GPA more. You'll probably need to make contact with some individual programs and see what they're looking for. When you extern, make a good impression, and make sure they know that you would like to do a residency with them, so they can keep an eye out for your application. If you can, get some of the faculty at the schools where you externed to write you a letter of rec (not the ones in the PASS, but separate ones you can send as a supplement). They're likely to notice recs written by their own faculty.
 
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@OMSCoordinator , if I have a score now but plan on retaking in August, would you apply with the score I have now and update my application in August, wait to apply until the third week of August, or apply without a score and submit one in August when I get it?
Thanks!
 
My upperclassmen told me that you have to wait for the August score to come in, then you click the submit button. I may be totally misinformed though.
 
Bereno said:
My class has some exceptionally smart people in it this year. They all did very, very well. Talking to a few people familiar with CBSE scores (not my classmates), it seems that most repeat test takers can only hope for a score increase of 6-8 points. I am hoping for a 14+ point increase, so we will see haha.
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Haha, I guess it depends on the person and the school schedule they face. Mandatory clinic attendance can be a real b!tch to getting a good score. I got a 52 on my first NBME and a 69 on the last one, so obviously it very possible to improve drastically. The real problem is retaining everything you learning from the last round and adding to it. Most probably forget a fair amount of what they learned each round, so they end up spending much of the time repeating material they previously knew.
 
agent2362 said:
Haha, I guess it depends on the person and the school schedule they face. Mandatory clinic attendance can be a real b!tch to getting a good score. I got a 52 on my first NBME and a 69 on the last one, so obviously it very possible to improve drastically. The real problem is retaining everything you learning from the last round and adding to it. Most probably forget a fair amount of what they learned each round, so they end up spending much of the time repeating material they previously knew.
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Yeah, studying while in clinic is a real misery, thats for sure. I was able to improve by 10 points while doing it. Had I used my "free" time during summer when I had no patients to worry about, I think I could have make that a 15+ point increase haha. Then again, I think most people can say the same thing, so the point is moot. Congrats on the score increase!!
 
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Bereno said:
Yeah, studying while in clinic is a real misery, thats for sure. I was able to improve by 10 points while doing it. Had I used my "free" time during summer when I had no patients to worry about, I think I could have make that a 15+ point increase haha. Then again, I think most people can say the same thing, so the point is moot. Congrats on the score increase!!
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Try doing it six years after you took NBDE Part I and are working 10-14 hours daily.
 
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vellnueve said:
Try doing it six years after you took NBDE Part I and are working 10-14 hours daily.
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Yep, I know the feeling. I graduated in 2013. I'm not sure if you are stateside or out on a boat somewhere or if studying would be worse while deployed, but it's definitely a challenge. It definitely still can be done. The four day weekends help and I chewed up around 15 days of leave. I think the last two weeks of studying are absolutely crucial to refreshing yourself on everything, strengths and weaknesses. I'm trying to do a few questions (10-20) from the Q banks each day, now and then review all weaknesses toward the end.
 
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Hello, I am entering my first year and was severely confused on process of becoming an oral surgeon. If one would like to specialize in OMS, what exams do they have to take in total and when? Is it USMLE part 1 end of your first year, then USMLE part 2 end of your 4th year, and then the CBSE somewhere in between? Are these the primary exams you take for OMS specialty?
 
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Confidence23 said:
Hello, I am entering my first year and was severely confused on process of becoming an oral surgeon. If one would like to specialize in OMS, what exams do they have to take in total and when? Is it USMLE part 1 end of your first year, then USMLE part 2 end of your 4th year, and then the CBSE somewhere in between? Are these the primary exams you take for OMS specialty?
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Just the CBSE to apply, it is offered twice a year in Feb/Aug.

http://www.aaoms.org/education-research/dental-students/nbme-for-oms-applicants
 
Confidence23 said:
Hello, I am entering my first year and was severely confused on process of becoming an oral surgeon. If one would like to specialize in OMS, what exams do they have to take in total and when? Is it USMLE part 1 end of your first year, then USMLE part 2 end of your 4th year, and then the CBSE somewhere in between? Are these the primary exams you take for OMS specialty?
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During dental school, you take the NBME CBSE, which is a shorter version of the USMLE.
This is the exam that all OMFS residencies look at when evaluating your application.
You can take it as many times as you want, and you can choose to send only your highest score.
Residency applications open up the summer after your third year, so you will need to take it that August at the latest.
It's only offered twice a year, once in Feb and another time in August.

If you get into the 6-year MD integrated program, you will be required to take USMLE steps.
You would not have to take the USMLE if you got into the 4-year OMFS program.
 
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With the ADAT being implemented in 2016, will OMFS applicant still be required to take the CBSE?
 
OMSCoordinator said:
To be honest, if you're in the 75th percentile for class rank, you're going to have a difficult time. And it's very much going to depend on the program. Some programs weigh the NBME very heavily, and some barely give it a glance. If you're applying for a 6-year program, it's going to depend on their relationship with their medical school. Some medical schools really want a high NBME, some value class rank and undergrad GPA more. You'll probably need to make contact with some individual programs and see what they're looking for. When you extern, make a good impression, and make sure they know that you would like to do a residency with them, so they can keep an eye out for your application. If you can, get some of the faculty at the schools where you externed to write you a letter of rec (not the ones in the PASS, but separate ones you can send as a supplement). They're likely to notice recs written by their own faculty.
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Can you please let me know which program you are the coordinator for? I am faculty and PD for a program in the NYC area (not OMFS). There is an OMFS residency which is part of my hospital, and I work together with their division. We often talk about the application and interview process. Nothing I have read in your posts sounds viable. You appear to have confidential information about many programs. How? You can PM me if you do not wish to speak out on a public forum.
 
Just wondering, what should I be getting on my Uworld averages to hit a score in the 60s? If Uworld is too hard of a gauge, how about the practice NBMEs online?
 
yuggernaut030 said:
Just wondering, what should I be getting on my Uworld averages to hit a score in the 60s? If Uworld is too hard of a gauge, how about the practice NBMEs online?
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You cannot use Uworld as a gauge because it's too easy to "cheat". After you do 1000 questions you can start to answer them just by the style they are asked...and most people do them by section which makes it even easier since you can rule out a lot of the answers...

Uworld is a great source but i saw some people have tremendous failures because they were doing so well on uworld that they thought they would kill the real deal...it's a fantastic resource but the scores you get are meaningless

The online NBME are a lot more predictive but only if you do the later ones (14,15,16...i think there was a 16?). The early ones have all been put into first aid, so if you read first aid you crush those first few tests. My advice, dont even waste your time with the early ones.
 
Don't be obsessed with Uworld %. Do the questions and read the explanations well. Uworld is a learning tool, not an assessment tool. If you want to gauge your progress, take an NBME.
 
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Sublimazing said:
You cannot use Uworld as a gauge because it's too easy to "cheat". After you do 1000 questions you can start to answer them just by the style they are asked...and most people do them by section which makes it even easier since you can rule out a lot of the answers...

Uworld is a great source but i saw some people have tremendous failures because they were doing so well on uworld that they thought they would kill the real deal...it's a fantastic resource but the scores you get are meaningless

The online NBME are a lot more predictive but only if you do the later ones (14,15,16...i think there was a 16?). The early ones have all been put into first aid, so if you read first aid you crush those first few tests. My advice, dont even waste your time with the early ones.
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Are you talking about the Self Assessment tests that U World offers when you say online NBMEs?
 
Golfguy said:
Are you talking about the Self Assessment tests that U World offers when you say online NBMEs?
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Oh yeah, you know what I'm talkin' bout!

giphy.gif
 
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So I took an NBME today, mainly to get timing down, and got a horrible score. Is this thing curved based on medical student performance? Can I expect a higher score on the actual NBME when I am in a pool with only dental students?
 
yuggernaut030 said:
So I took an NBME today, mainly to get timing down, and got a horrible score. Is this thing curved based on medical student performance? Can I expect a higher score on the actual NBME when I am in a pool with only dental students?
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Nope. It's not graded on a curve, but based on how much knowledge you have. That's why these scores have been creeping up over the years for medical students, as they gain access to more high yield material and more med schools teach to the USMLE.

NBME 15 and 16 scores were within only a few points of my actual CBSE.
 
Well that is disheartening. Lets hope I hit 60s within the next week of studying.
 
AlbinoPolarBear said:
Nope. It's not graded on a curve, but based on how much knowledge you have. That's why these scores have been creeping up over the years for medical students, as they gain access to more high yield material and more med schools teach to the USMLE.

NBME 15 and 16 scores were within only a few points of my actual CBSE.
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Just making sure, how did you calculate your score? You had to make two conversions right? CBSSA score to USMLE score. Then USMLE score to NBME score using the conversion chart from February exam's "myreport". Or is there a more accurate way to do this?
 
yuggernaut030 said:
Just making sure, how did you calculate your score? You had to make two conversions right? CBSSA score to USMLE score. Then USMLE score to NBME score using the conversion chart from February exam's "myreport". Or is there a more accurate way to do this?
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That's the most accurate way to do it.
For example, if you got 390 on NBME 16, the conversion would be...

NBME 16: 390
USMLE Step 1: 205
CBSE: 72
 
Lots of bad info in this thread. Also not sure what kind of program has a "coordinator" privy or even handling that kind of information who isn't the director him/herself or at least faculty. Just seems weird to me.

Let me break this down:
1. Go to the dental school that costs the least.
2. Pathoma, first aid, uworld, NBMEs. You should be able to break 70, but a 60s score can get interviews and match just fine. In fact, so can 50s (but we'll notice). If you go to a private school who spends 2 years in med school and send students who all break 70s....you better break 70. If you're at a great clinical school and have a 65, you're fine. Again, you can still match somewhere with a high 50s. We know what schools rack up high scores due to specific factors of their curriculum, and rather than being impressed, it's more a matter of comparing you amongst your peers there. Believe it or not, we're capable of comparing students amongst comparable schools. Furthermore, the ADA is making a new test for 2016(?) that's dental school based and will be another measure. I seriously doubt we'll abandon the cbse, as the med schools like it and it helps with step 1,but you poor guys will likely be taking both tests.
3. Do your best, extern like a boss, get good grades. You'll match.
4. Disregard 90 percent of what you read on sdn.


-a PGY3
 
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UncUndergrad1 said:
Lots of bad info in this thread. Also not sure what kind of program has a "coordinator" privy or even handling that kind of information who isn't the director him/herself or at least faculty. Just seems weird to me.

Let me break this down:
1. Go to the dental school that costs the least.
2. Pathoma, first aid, uworld, NBMEs. You should be able to break 70, but a 60s score can get interviews and match just fine. In fact, so can 50s (but we'll notice). If you go to a private school who spends 2 years in med school and send students who all break 70s....you better break 70. If you're at a great clinical school and have a 65, you're fine. Again, you can still match somewhere with a high 50s. We know what schools rack up high scores due to specific factors of their curriculum, and rather than being impressed, it's more a matter of comparing you amongst your peers there. Believe it or not, we're capable of comparing students amongst comparable schools. Furthermore, the ADA is making a new test for 2016(?) that's dental school based and will be another measure. I seriously doubt we'll abandon the cbse, as the med schools like it and it helps with step 1,but you poor guys will likely be taking both tests.
3. Do your best, extern like a boss, get good grades. You'll match.
4. Disregard 90 percent of what you read on sdn.


-a PGY3
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This is very true... so what 10% of your post should people believe? ;)
 
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Please can someone end this insanity and bring scoring back to the nbde. the ADA must be run by a horde of **** tossing monkeys.
 
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UncUndergrad1 said:
Lots of bad info in this thread. Also not sure what kind of program has a "coordinator" privy or even handling that kind of information who isn't the director him/herself or at least faculty. Just seems weird to me.

Let me break this down:
1. Go to the dental school that costs the least.
2. Pathoma, first aid, uworld, NBMEs. You should be able to break 70, but a 60s score can get interviews and match just fine. In fact, so can 50s (but we'll notice). If you go to a private school who spends 2 years in med school and send students who all break 70s....you better break 70. If you're at a great clinical school and have a 65, you're fine. Again, you can still match somewhere with a high 50s. We know what schools rack up high scores due to specific factors of their curriculum, and rather than being impressed, it's more a matter of comparing you amongst your peers there. Believe it or not, we're capable of comparing students amongst comparable schools. Furthermore, the ADA is making a new test for 2016(?) that's dental school based and will be another measure. I seriously doubt we'll abandon the cbse, as the med schools like it and it helps with step 1,but you poor guys will likely be taking both tests.
3. Do your best, extern like a boss, get good grades. You'll match.
4. Disregard 90 percent of what you read on sdn.


-a PGY3
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AU07DMD said:
This is very true... so what 10% of your post should people believe? ;)
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I agree with the coordinator comment and the cheap dental school comment 110%. Like always, you should believe my posts 100%. Then take his 10%. So this comment is now 110% true. So if you disregard 90% usually, then in fact, there's a 20% chance I'm right.

I'm a four year grad. We don't do math real good.
 
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DaleDoback said:
I agree with the coordinator comment and the cheap dental school comment 110%. Like always, you should believe my posts 100%. Then take his 10%. So this comment is now 110% true. So if you disregard 90% usually, then in fact, there's a 20% chance I'm right.

I'm a four year grad. We don't do math real good.
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Your math comment reminds me of the Simpson's haha.

 
I went to a state college and a state dental school. School name on your diploma means nothing. What you guys need to think about is the frame of reference of the guys at the program interviewing you. These guys are working 100+ hours per week basically in a war zone( if it is a program worth a crap). They are looking for 2 things:
1. Can you pass you medical boards.
2. Are you a hard worker who gets the job done and doesn't bring a lot of BS to the table.
They are thinking about getting calls from YOU in the middle of the night about some guy who blew his head off and if you will be able to handle it. Are you easy to get along with. I would take an applicant with a lower score all day long if they were a practical thinker and had proven work ethic.
 
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To Future Applicants from a OMFS program director of 20 years...........
Here is what we evaluate in order to determine an interview list from which we matriculate 3 residents per year in to a four year program from roughly 130 applicants per year. We are in the center of California so I'll leave the guessing up to you.....
1. Class Rank (particular dental school is immaterial and top 20% is recommended)
2. CBSE score (60 plus is recommended but it's not absolute)
3. Externship Experience (recommend at least 3 and your home institution does not count)
4. Demonstrated interpersonal skills and common sense
5. Letters of recommendation
6. Performance in undergraduate and perceived level of difficulty
7. Internship Experience
8. Most externs get an interview as long as they have the basic qualifications
9. Spanish fluency is a plus
 
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Not sure how much weight the 6 year programs place on rank. They seem to have absolute minimums on the CBSE like 65 or 70. I would say they are more concerned about the test score than the rank. Keep in mind that many schools will not or do not offer rankings anyway.
 
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To how many programs does the average applicant apply to?

Thanks.
 
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