To Join or Not to Join...that is the question (SOMA/AMSA)

[AbuJadenDO]

So what's the deal with SOMA and AMSA? I mean at my school they give you a free Netter for signing up but is that the only advantage???

what are some +'s/-'s of bein a part of one or both of those organizations?

I heard AMSA is responsible for the 80hr law for resident work weeks but is that all they have goin for them?

any help would do.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[rockstar]

It is very important that all DO students get involved in SOMA. It is our direct voice to the AOA. It is the only group that allows us, as DO's, to have a voice in government, national healthcare, and our rights as physicians. There our also numerous benefits to SOMA as well, not only a Netters, but the SOMA bookstore, where you get all your med. books at discount prices, attend conventions across the country and DO Day on the Hill in Washington DC to lobby your politicians, ussually paid for, flight and hotel, by SOMA...where you meet all the top docs in the AOA. You get free subscriptions to the DO magazine and the osteopathic research journal.
As a DO student, we need an advocate for us, that is SOMA and the AOA. An example of what SOMA has done is it started, this year, to get all residency to accept one application for residency, we no longer need to fill out seperate ones.
AMSA is good, but you'll see it does little to help us as DO's, it's focus is the MD's.
I am a memeber and on the borad of both at my school and this is what I have observed from my first year.

 

[T.A.M]

And with SOMA, you qualify for below market rate health insurance (the main reason I joined, since my school doesn't offer it's own plan)...

 

[LukeWhite]

LLP,

Whle AMSA provides a free Netter's, it also endorses and fights for quite a few positions that are at the very least not consensus stands, and in many cases way out of the mainstream. Most recently, AMSA's made a big deal about the fact that tort reform isn't terribly high on its list of priorities compared to a more socialized system of healthcare in the US, and has fought against the war in Iraq.

For those who agree with positions like that, AMSA's great. Lots don't, though, and yet AMSA still styles itself as the voice of American med students. It gets some of this legitimacy by signing up huge numbers of students who are in it for the free Netter's. Joining AMSA, for most students, is a bit like joining PETA for a free falafel. Most students who join don't know the positions they're tacitly endorsing, and with the huge amount of work in med school, never bother to find out. Meanwhile, AMSA's using their membership to pad its far-out positions with legitimacy-in-numbers.

Besides, Rohen's way better!

 

[moo]

I agree with LukeWhite. I'm a 3rd yr allo student, and when I started, I contemplated joining AMSA. But as I learned more about their organization the more I didn't want to join. I don't consider myself a hard-core republican but I certainly do not ascribe to some of the beliefs of AMSA and its members.

 

[T.A.M]

...and I was also pissed to learn after I signed up for AMSA... and wrote them a bloody membership check ... that they had NO connection to the AMA, which I thought they did!

 

[DrMom]

Pays to do your homework in advance.

I like to find out about some of the stances of these groups before I send them money. There are a few I chose not to join because I don't agree with what they take stands on.

 

[Robz]

I joined AMSA only on a local membership due to their stances...plus they gave out a sweet biochem packet for our studies. I joined SOMA cause I actually liked some of the things they were trying to do but I feel they get caught in a rut sometimes too. PLus...they give a HUGE packet of old tests...and I got a free netters all for 135 bucks!!! WOOOOOO!

 

[OSUdoc08]

SOMA and AMSA are both great organizations, however SOMA is affiliated with the AOA and is not an independent/student-led organization.

AMSA is solely responsible for the recent reduction in work-hours for residents and students, as well as many other issues.

AMSA is student-led, and has no affiliation with any medical organization, which means they do not endorse one particular group. They are completely self-sufficient, and as the largest medical student group, they offer the most benefits. They also demonstrate a cooperation between MD's & DO's, which is important. Osteopathic groups are important, but groups that seek to harmonize both groups is more practical in a real-world setting. It is AMSA's stance that DO's & MD's remain seperate, but equal, as it is important to medicine for both professions to exist individually. AMSA seeks to provide equality for all physicians.

As for what they stand in----AMSA is non-partisan and does not endorse a particular political party. In addition, AMSA advocates for ALL physician & student groups without discrimination. If one feels that they must discriminate against a particular race/ethnicity, sexual orientation, or culture, then they should not join AMSA. They should also reconsider becoming a physician---you must treat all patient types, as well as work with these types of people.

Here is a very good slide show presentation on AMSA, or you can read below:

http://www.amsa.org/about/intro/intro_files/frame.htm

AMSA is the oldest and largest independent
(student-led) medical student organization in the U.S.

AMSA is very "DO-friendly" and offers an OMM mini-class to non-DO students at all conferences, and it was pretty fun. They have DO national officers and are lobbying for legislation that combines the ACGME & AOA residency matches into one match, as well as other polices that benefit osteopathic medical students. Every DO school in the U.S. is represented in AMSA.
----------------------------
Mission Statement:

The mission of the America Medical Student Association
is to be committed to the improvement of health care
and health care-delivery to all people; to promote the
active improvement of medical education; to involve
its members in the social, moral, and ethical
obligations of the profession of medicine; to assist
in the improvement and understanding of world health
problems; to contribute to the welfare of all members,
including premedical students, medical students,
interns, residents, and post-M.D./D.O. trainees; to
advance the profession of medicine; to work to ensure
that medicine reflects the diversity of society, with
diversity including but not limited to differences in
age, culture, race/ethnicity, sexual orientation,
gender, and diability.
----------------------------
Dues:
$65 National Dues (for all 4 years of school;
membership is free to interns/residents & alumni)
----------------------------
Member Benefits:

INSURANCE

* Group Health & Accident Insurance
* GEICO Auto Insurance
* Minnesota Life & Disability Income Insurance
* Dental & Vision Insurance
* Homeowners/Renters/Condominium Insurance

BOOKS, PUBLICATIONS & EQUIPMENT

* AMSA's Online PDA & Software Store
* AMSA Online Instrument Sales
* Barnes & Noble AMSA Online Bookstore
* The Medical Letter Discount Subscription
* Scrub Discounts

OTHER BENEFITS FROM AMSA

* The New Physician magazine
* Member Listserves
* AMSA Catalog
* Resources for Fourth Year Medical Students


FINANCIAL

* Loan Consolidation
* AMSA RxLoans
* MBNA Credit Card
* Mortgage Program

TRAVEL

* Airline Discounts
* Hotel Discounts
* Alamo Car Rentals
* Senior Travel

AMSA FAQ's

What is AMSA?
The American Medical Student Association is the largest, independent medical student organization in the country. Currently, AMSA is focusing our energy on three key areas: increasing diversity in medicine, promoting medical student well-being and working towards providing health care for everyone.

What does AMSA do?
AMSA leads initiatives both locally and nationally in medical education, public health, student and patient advocacy, health policy and global health. We have a long history of political activism in Washington as well as at the local level.

Why should I join AMSA?
There are tons of reasons to join AMSA. It's not just great benefits, but also a great opportunity to network, preserve sanity and expand your knowledge past medical school lectures. AMSA provides unparalleled leadership opportunities locally and nationally.

What do I get if I join?
Lots of benefits! We have a great magazine called The New Physician, insurance programs, PDA software and hardware discounts, and so much more. Be sure to check out the full list of benefits.

Why should I be a national member if I can just participate locally?
Your national dues support AMSA and many of our national and local initiatives. Your dues support an organization that represents the voice of medical students to groups like the NRMP (the match) and NBME (the boards). Your dues go toward providing amazing leadership opportunities, more than any other medical student organization. Our National Convention, in the Washington, D.C. area, March 16-20, 2005, will be the most fun you'll have at medical school. Past speakers have included numerous Surgeon Generals, Marion Wright Edelman and Patch Adams.

What is the difference between the AMA and AMSA?
AMSA actually started as the student branch of the AMA but split off in the late 1960's when the AMA opposed the creation of Medicare and failed to provide support to the civil rights movement and the community health movement. Students have a much stronger voice in AMSA and we are the largest, completely student-led, medical student organization in the country.

What is AMSA's policy on Residency Work Hours?
AMSA supports the reduction in hours as long as patient care is not compromised. We have other very exciting policies regarding issues such as physician-assisted suicide, sexuality, complementary and alternative medicine, and Reproductive rights. If you want to change or add a policy, you can write a resolution to be voted upon at the national convention in the House of Delegates.

 

[Sinnman]

What can AMSA do for you?

Ensure that you will never be able to pay off your student loans

AND,

Strangle your ability to make clinical decisions as a physician

AND,

Relieve you of the hassle of managing your own practice (as long as you don't mind working for the government)

AND,

Ensuring that all medical care is well thought before execution of treatment while your patients wait four months for surgery

AND, last but not least,

Give you a free Netter's.

What a bargain!!!!

BTW, non-partisan? Have you looked at their position statements or any of their information on the web?

 

[AbuJadenDO]

What can AMSA do for you?

Ensure that you will never be able to pay off your student loans

AND,

Strangle your ability to make clinical decisions as a physician

AND,

Relieve you of the hassle of managing your own practice (as long as you don't mind working for the government)

AND,

Ensuring that all medical care is well thought before execution of treatment while your patients wait four months for surgery

AND, last but not least,

Give you a free Netter's.

What a bargain!!!!

BTW, non-partisan? Have you looked at their position statements or any of their information on the web?

what have u got to back all this up?

 

[Sinnman]

Well for starters:

http://www.amsa.org/election2004/comparison.pdf
http://www.amsa.org/about/priorities.cfm


Non-partisan? Looks pretty much straight down party lines to me. In fact, their positions sound socialist. I consider myself an independent, but these people are out in left field. I don't join a "medical organization" to get their positions on foreign policy, international alliances, preemptive strike policy, gay marriage and gun control.

 

[LukeWhite]

LLP,

Check out their website--they back those claims up pretty well themselves.

I found this part of the FAQ posted particularly fun:

"We have other very exciting policies regarding issues such as physician-assisted suicide, sexuality, complementary and alternative medicine, and Reproductive rights."

Note--they have policies, not positions. The odds of a member successfully changing any of these, ahem, policies, is pretty low. As far as exciting goes, presumably believing that physicians shouldn't be involved in suicide, that abortion takes lives, etc. isn't very exciting.

Here's a sample of AMSA's positions:

AMSA policy officially opposes the prohibition of intact dilation and extraction abortion and believes that all women should be able to obtain a voluntary abortion. The proposed legislation, which will soon be signed by President George W. Bush, inserts politics into the examination room and will prevent physicians from providing the best and safest health care for women.

This from a press release under the headline "Medical Students Condemn Partial Birth Legislation."

For people who take such positions, there's an organization for them. But I can't imagine that it represents the majority opinion of medical students who know full well what a second-or-third trimester fetus is and does. It's criminal that AMSA glosses over positions like this while dangling the free Netter.

 

[jhug]

AMSA supports everyone, and doesn't take a stance on issues, such as those mentioned above. Much of what has been written above against AMSA is false & unsupported. osudoc08

buddy, it's from your web site!!!

Deleting posts, no fair???? did you realize that the comments above are in harmony with the POLICY your amsa has taken?

 

[jhug]

also, just so you know, your claim that amsa was solely responsible for the changes in resident work schedules is what is unsupported...
Press Release (June 20, 2002)

AMA Delegates Approve Limits on Resident Working Hours

Policy is the first time nation?s largest physician organization has set limits on work for new doctors

June 20, 2002

CHICAGO ? The American Medical Association House of Delegates approved a wide-ranging new policy today regarding the working conditions for resident physicians, including imposing limits on the number of hours they can work. This is the first time the AMA has adopted policies with specific definitions, hours and working conditions for resident physicians.

"The AMA House of Delegates took a bold step in approving this new policy," said AMA Resident Trustee Peter Watson, MD. "Resident work hours and conditions have been a high-priority issue for the AMA?s Resident and Fellow Section and Medical Student Section for many years. Instituting these rules will greatly enhance medical education across the nation and, in turn, produce the highest quality new physicians."

The policy was presented in a report by the AMA?s Council on Medical Education that was submitted to the full AMA House. Some of the highlights include:

Limits total residency duty hours to 80 per week, averaged over a two-week period. The AMA will work with graduate medical education accrediting bodies to determine if an increase of 5 percent may be appropriate for some training programs;
Restricts scheduled on-call assignments to 24 hours, with up to six additional hours to complete transfer of care, patient follow-up and education;
Limits scheduled on-call shifts to no more than every third night and requires one day off in seven;
Requires that any limits on total duty hours must not adversely affect resident physician participation in the organized educational activities of the residency program.
The guidelines also encourage the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) to vigorously enforce accreditation standards approved by the ACGME Board of Directors on June 11 regarding resident work hours. The AMA House asked for a report from ACGME on some of its review activities with regard to the new standards. ACGME accredits nearly 7,800 residency education programs in the United States.

AMA officials stressed that they will actively monitor ACGME?s enforcement of its new standards. The AMA hopes these rules will avoid premature legislative action on this subject.

The AMA?s guidelines were brought about by a genuine concern on the part of the members of the Resident and Fellow Section and the Medical Student Section regarding the working and learning environment for resident physicians.

The formulation of the recommendations was based in part on the findings presented last October at a conference co-sponsored by the AMA on Sleep, Fatigue and Medical Training.

"The AMA is deeply concerned with patient safety and the welfare of our physicians in training," Dr. Watson said. "These new standards will go a long way toward ensuring that these concerns are addressed."


amsa came to be when students felt that the AMA did not properly listen to what they had to say...they were probably right at the time...the AMA has since created the AMA-MSS (medical student section) and we have students sit in positions with the AMA-HOC (house of delegates)...some 75% of what the AMA-MSS proposed in June was passed the following week by the AMA-HOC. Two pieces of legislation of interest is that anytime the AMA uses the title "physician", it is automatically understood to mean DO/MD...also, they are looking into the opportunity to combine the DO & MD match. Also, there is an Osteopathic Caucus within the AMA...
The AMA has given students a voice, negating the need for why amsa was originally created.
(disclaimer: this is not an amsa-bash, just an FYI)

 

[LovelyRita]

I dont' think I joined either club. But I went to every meeting and ate the free food.

 

[OSUdoc08]

also, just so you know, your claim that amsa was solely responsible for the changes in resident work schedules is what is unsupported...
Press Release (June 20, 2002)

AMA Delegates Approve Limits on Resident Working Hours

Policy is the first time nation?s largest physician organization has set limits on work for new doctors

June 20, 2002

CHICAGO ? The American Medical Association House of Delegates approved a wide-ranging new policy today regarding the working conditions for resident physicians, including imposing limits on the number of hours they can work. This is the first time the AMA has adopted policies with specific definitions, hours and working conditions for resident physicians.

"The AMA House of Delegates took a bold step in approving this new policy," said AMA Resident Trustee Peter Watson, MD. "Resident work hours and conditions have been a high-priority issue for the AMA?s Resident and Fellow Section and Medical Student Section for many years. Instituting these rules will greatly enhance medical education across the nation and, in turn, produce the highest quality new physicians."

The policy was presented in a report by the AMA?s Council on Medical Education that was submitted to the full AMA House. Some of the highlights include:

Limits total residency duty hours to 80 per week, averaged over a two-week period. The AMA will work with graduate medical education accrediting bodies to determine if an increase of 5 percent may be appropriate for some training programs;
Restricts scheduled on-call assignments to 24 hours, with up to six additional hours to complete transfer of care, patient follow-up and education;
Limits scheduled on-call shifts to no more than every third night and requires one day off in seven;
Requires that any limits on total duty hours must not adversely affect resident physician participation in the organized educational activities of the residency program.
The guidelines also encourage the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) to vigorously enforce accreditation standards approved by the ACGME Board of Directors on June 11 regarding resident work hours. The AMA House asked for a report from ACGME on some of its review activities with regard to the new standards. ACGME accredits nearly 7,800 residency education programs in the United States.

AMA officials stressed that they will actively monitor ACGME?s enforcement of its new standards. The AMA hopes these rules will avoid premature legislative action on this subject.

The AMA?s guidelines were brought about by a genuine concern on the part of the members of the Resident and Fellow Section and the Medical Student Section regarding the working and learning environment for resident physicians.

The formulation of the recommendations was based in part on the findings presented last October at a conference co-sponsored by the AMA on Sleep, Fatigue and Medical Training.

"The AMA is deeply concerned with patient safety and the welfare of our physicians in training," Dr. Watson said. "These new standards will go a long way toward ensuring that these concerns are addressed."


amsa came to be when students felt that the AMA did not properly listen to what they had to say...they were probably right at the time...the AMA has since created the AMA-MSS (medical student section) and we have students sit in positions with the AMA-HOC (house of delegates)...some 75% of what the AMA-MSS proposed in June was passed the following week by the AMA-HOC. Two pieces of legislation of interest is that anytime the AMA uses the title "physician", it is automatically understood to mean DO/MD...also, they are looking into the opportunity to combine the DO & MD match. Also, there is an Osteopathic Caucus within the AMA...
The AMA has given students a voice, negating the need for why amsa was originally created.
(disclaimer: this is not an amsa-bash, just an FYI)

The AMA only adopted this policy, along with this other policies as given above, after extensive lobbying by AMSA. Regardless of what you believe, there is not a strong support for osteopathic physicians within the AMA. AMSA is neither affiliated with the AMA or AOA, thus allowing them to support both groups without bias.

"
The Resident Work Hour Issue:
Your Home to the Most Up-to-Date Information

AMSA has been at the forefront of the Residency Work Hours movement, active at every level of the debate to protect resident physicians from overwork and promote patient safety. In response to our efforts, the ACGME issued new residency work hour regulations, effective July 1, 2003.

Ongoing efforts are needed to ensure that the ACGME regulations are enforced and create an improved working environment that ensures patient safety without compromising medical education. The loopholes and flaws in the regulations and the inherent conflict of interest that results from self-regulation make this outcome very questionable under the current framework. Residents across the country have already reported violations of the new regulations to AMSA.

AMSA supports the Patient and Physician Safety and Protection Act (S. 952/H.R. 1228) as the best way to protect residents and patients and foster change. AMSA also supports the numerous state-level initiatives regarding residency work hours, and the need for ongoing research and education on the effects of sleep deprivation and overwork on resident health and medical errors. "

 

[LukeWhite]

Just to echo the point,

some of you people are really trying hard---and it's pretty sad

AMSA supports everyone, and doesn't take a stance on issues

official AMSA press release: http://www.amsa.org/news/pr/03/1022.cfm

AMSA policy officially opposes the prohibition of intact dilation and extraction abortion and believes that all women should be able to obtain a voluntary abortion.

Either you or AMSA's wrong, OSUdoc, and one doesn't have to try too hard to show that.

My concern is that you're telling other students that AMSA has no positions, that it supports everyone, etc. What's the incoming med student to think? Why should they have any reason not to trust you? And so they happily sign up and perhaps never realize that you've told them something that's untrue. After all, if the president of an AMSA chapter doesn't know that AMSA has policies, how many members will?

You're not entirely to blame for this--I think that AMSA does an excellent job of obscuring its true nature to those med students it needs to carry its water. But now you know--AMSA, in addition to a bunch of other questionable positions, supports partial birth abortions. If you agree with this, you're well suited for AMSA. If you don't, why are you defending it--is AMSA more sacred than what you believe is a human life?

 

[jhug]

Regardless of what you believe, there is not a strong support for osteopathic physicians within the AMA.

and you would know this how.................???

buddy, you don't even know about your own amsa, let alone the ama...
look, the only reason i said anthing is because you made the absurd claim that amsa "is solely responsible for the recent reduction in work-hours for residents and students, as well as many other issues."...only now you are saying "The AMA only adopted this policy, along with this other policies as given above, after extensive lobbying by AMSA." so does amsa lobby the ama??? or did nothing happen until the ama got involved?
then you made the ignorant comment about amsa not having positions....
i, with luke, just don't want you to mislead (advertently or not) people who take your word for it...nearly everything you've said about amsa has not been correct...you should really look into what you are getting into before you start tooting the amsa horn...
and i would stop going back and deleting posts...either figure it out before you say something or leave it for all to see that you don't know what you are talking about...either way it leads to the demise of your credibility (which is already questionable at best)

 

[Sinnman]

I'm really confused here. OSUdoc08, how can you claim that you're a "conservative republican from Texas" that's voting for Bush and be the AMSA chapter president? The two are diametrically opposed! I can't see how 99% of liberal democrats from California would support AMSA. This is one of the most politically radical organizations I have ever seen whose positions are clearly not in line with the vast majority of the country let alone physicians.

 

[OSUdoc08]

because being a member of AMSA doesn't mean participating in certain political actions that certain SUBGROUPS of AMSA ADVOCACY programs are involved in

being a member of AMSA means being a member of the nation's oldest and largest independent medical student organization

it also means being a member of a group that is SOLELY concerned with the needs of medical students and residents

organizations affiliated with the AMA, AOA, etc. are more concerned with these groups only, instead of just medical students

one does not base the decision to join such a group out of narrow-mindedness regarding certain national issues-----this group serves to educate them more about such issues---if you disagree with this issues, joining the organization doesn't mean you are required to protest and rally these issues---AMSA supports open debate from both sides of the issues, and has members that support either side

 

[jhug]

one does not base the decision to join such a group out of narrow-mindedness regarding certain national issues.......this group serves to educate them more about such issues---if you disagree with this issues, joining the organization doesn't mean you are required to protest and rally these issues

i'll copy this before you have the chance to delete it
my only comment will be to educate yourself about what amsa represents. You made some claims on this thread that are VERY misleading and flat out untrue. I will not join an organization that does not represent my feelings regarding the future of our profession...POLICY on end-term abortions, doing NOTHING to correct the current medmal crisis (wonder if vp-runner edwards has anything to do with that?), has POLICY on same-sex marriage (how is this "SOLELY concerned with the needs of medical students and residents????), has POLICY on gun control (again, how is this "SOLELY concerned with the needs of medical students and residents????)
amsa wants government run healthcare...if you want to work for the DMV that will become medical services in america that's great...but don't mislead (intentionally or not) others into joining a club that pushes their profession in the wrong direction.

 

[OSUdoc08]

also untrue,

don't claim what I say is untrue by making untrue statements yourself

AMSA wants health care for all by any means possible, don't assume this means total government health care

if you think people don't deserve health care, then so be it---I really don't wish to argue this or any other point
-------------------------------------
no need to continue bickering---i have better things to do

 

[Drfting Sun]

How about someone give us some good input on whether SOMA is a policy-generating body like AMSA?

Does anyone reading this have any experience in being in the AMA-MSS?

I think it's pretty clear that the AMSA is a vehicle by which liberal/social people in the background are attempting to manipulate the system, and I would defnitely appreciate knowing about SOMA before I give away some of my money.

It's clear the AMSA is NOT connected with the AMA. Is SOMA connected with the AOA? or is it the same sort of parallel as with the AMSA/AMA?

It sounds like giving the AMSA money is similar to shredding up close to $70 and throwing it in a fish tank, with the idea that you're feeding and/or benefitting the fish so that you can eventually have a bigger fish to eat.

I see some arguments in here basically saying, "you don't have to be active to join" and that's exactly what most every group says...like Greenpeace, and moveon.org . I imagine that if you *did* become active, thinking for yourself or with the aid of outside analysis, you might reconsider giving them money/contributing again.

Let's hear some more about SOMA and the AMA-MSS routes.

 

[jhug]

osu, you really should look at the following link
http://www.amsa.org/election2004/comparison.pdf
being in amsa leadership, it is important to know what you talking about...everything i've said that you claim to be untrue is in that link, which is from amsa itself...it just takes a little time to read it...and what do you think they mean by "single-payer health care system to cover all" (it's on the first line so you don't have to read too far ) i doubt they mean microsoft!!!
(ps. and nice attempt to avoid EVERYTHING else i said...don't want people to have health care...what a lame retort...)
face it...paying $70 toward a club that in no way, shape, or form represents me (and i don't think i'm alone) not only is a waste of $$, it is sending financial support to a group of people that are actively trying to mislead our profession. i will never join something and not be active in it...what a waste

I imagine that if you *did* become active, thinking for yourself or with the aid of outside analysis, you might reconsider giving them money/contributing again.

drifting sun says it better than i...

 

[jhug]

drifting sun... here is the link to the ama-mss site
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/14.html
i'm the ama pres at my school and have attended two national meeting so far...(at the last i was responsible for the credentials of the western 12 states.)
at the following link you can see how we voted on some issues last june
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/15/a04_final_actions.pdf
check out resolution 8 regarding the match...interesting (it's being currently being researched)
also check out resolution 41...it passed unanimously...without ONE VOTE OF DISSENT!!!!! now tell me how you could anyone possibly say "there is not a strong support for osteopathic physicians within the AMA"?? (this resolution also went on to the HOD where it was also passed unanimously)

it is easy to be actively involved in the ama-mss...i encourage it...i would NEVER tell a potential member it is wise to join the ama if the majority of ama's views are not in harmony with your own...(they aren't always 100%, but then again, that would be boring)

 

[TCOM-2006]

hi everyone!!

i'm pretty new to this site, but have noticed that there's some pretty interesting discussion. let me try to make a few points about the whole SOMA / AOA // AMA-MSS / AMA // AMSA issue (and this ties into issues from other recent threads):

while i understand how many students join these organizations because of the "stuff" (Netter's, Stedman's, etc) that you get - the *real* benefit is the opportunity to influence our profession and the larger context of healthcare. this is the "what can i do for my profession?" approach rather than the "what can my profession do for me?" approach.

it's very likely that almost every member of each of these organizations can find things in the organizations' official policy (which is passed by a representative body = house of delegates) that they disagree with. when this happens, there are a few different reactions that occur, depending on how important the issue is to the particular person, how different the organization's policy is from the individual's perspective, and the individual's willingness to compromise:

a> people leave the organization or refuse to join, because they "disagee with their policy"

b> people get involved or at least communicate their views to those in leadership in order to try and create change from within.

in my view, option <b> has the greatest probability of effecting the outcome of the issue, is most but not all cases, depending on a few other factors which i will discuss later. i think option <a> should only be used only after the individual has tried, failed, and sees no possibility to create change from within the organization in a reasonable amount of time, and if the issue is something that the individual does not want to compromise on.

so - the bottom line is that this is an individual decision. personally i'm a member of all 3 (AOA/SOMA, AMA/AMA-MSS, and AMSA).

each one of these organizations tends to represent different groups and interests - should you join them?

AOA/SOMA

membership eligibility: DOs and DO students

student representation: students are representated in the AOA house of delegates through both SOMA and COSGP (the council of osteopathic student government presidents... which is actually a council of AACOM, which is a seperate organization from the AOA), and on AOA committees and the AOA board of trustees. <<by the way - i welcome input from any students involved that can clarify student representation in the AOA>>

my opinion: i think that these organizations are definitely worth joining, and maintaining membership after graduation. historically, as everyone knows it's through "organized osteopathy" that we (DOs) are able to practice medicine. now - we still face many issues, both osteopathic specific and general medical profession and healthcare.

regarding the osteopathic-specific issues - we have no other voice. while i strongly support DOs also joining the AMA (as discussed below) - the AMA, or an osteopathic section of the AMA cannot replace the AOA. this is not because that AMA is prejudiced against DOs (see below) - it is because the AMA appropriately focuses most of its time and money on large-scale healthcare issues that affect most or all or its members. the same principle is true, with say - opthalomologists (all specialties have created their own independant organizations, in part, to be the strongest voice for issues that are a particular concern for their specialty). examples of osteopathic-specific issues range from reimbursement and research funding for OMT (which is of more importance to some of us DOs that others) and osteopathic medical education issues, which have an effect on all of us - particullary we DO students.

there has been discussion on various threads that many disagree with the AOA's priorities / policies / leadership / use of resources - for example the push to get everyone to distinguish themselves as "OMS" rather than "MS" or the explosion of growth of COMs. many of us (myself included) would like to see change. the best way to create discussion and eventually change is to get organized and get involved (move from discussion to action), as others have suggested. See the "reinventing osteopathic medicine..." thread.

AMA/AMA-MSS:

membership eligibility: DOs, MDs, DO students, and MD students

student representation: the AMA-MSS is the largest medical student organization with ~ 50,000 members. students are representated in the AMA house of delegates through the AMA-MSS, some individual state scoieties, and a "regional delegate" structure. Also - voting representation on AMA councils and the AMA board of trustees.

my opinion: first - let me say that the earlier statement:

"Regardless of what you believe, there is not a strong support for osteopathic physicians within the AMA."

is incorrect. while it is true that the AMA fought against the AOA in years past - the AMA has more recently allowed DOs to become members, there is no anti-DO AMA policy, and there is ample opportunity for DO advancement to leadership positions. the AMA has even given the AOA voting representation in its house of delegates, but the AOA refuses to send delegates.

so why do i think DOs and DO students should also be involved in the AMA? First, it's important to recognize that, while the AMA has lost membership recently, it's still the most influential physician/student organization, and the actions it takes (which is based on its policy) therefore has a larger potential to influence the outcome of legislation and policy which will affect everyday life for physicians and patients than any other physician or med student org. for example, the AOA Washington's lobby budget for 2000 was $400,000 while the AMA's was $16,580,000 and, in 2002 - the AMA gave ~ $2.5 million in political contributions while the AOA gave ~ $190k. my point is that we (DOs/DO students) should seek to gain inlfluence over what will ulitmately affect us - it is in our interests to get involved.

\\\
http://www.opensecrets.org/lobbyists/indusclient.asp?code=H01&year=2000
http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/industry.asp?txt=H01&cycle=2002
I don't have lobby budget info on AMSA, and they don't give $ to political campaigns - anyone have this??
///

second, many of the big issues (medical liability reform, the uninsured, etc) are not osteopathic specific issues - and we as a medical profession need to come together and debate - pass policy - and take action on these big issues. while some may call the AMA "that allopathic organization" (and that is certainly its background) - the truth is that the AMA is moving in the direction of becoming an organization which represents all of medicine (both the allopathic and the osteopathic branch). how fast this change occurs is up to us.

third, our involvement within the AMA fosters opportunity for advances in mutual understanding, respect and cooperaction between the two branches.
we have more important battles to fight than with each other.

fourth, the MSS (students) of the AMA is very very effective in getting what it wants through the AMA house of delegates. for example - at the most recent meeting in june 16 of 19 resolutions submitted by the MSS were passed, and the other 3 were referred for further study. the physicians really listen to students, and we benefit from learning from their experience and knowledge.

AMSA

membership eligibility: DO and MD students

student representation: well... it's all students! AMSA is the largest *independant* medical student organization.

my opinion: AMSA, unlike AMA-MSS and SOMA, are not part of a larger organization which also includes physicians. i think this acts as an advantage in some ways and a disadvantage in other ways. for example - AMSA can make more student oriented issues (such as student debt / resident work hours) a higher priority than physician oriented issues (such as reimbursement / scope of practice, etc). even though students have representation in the AOA and AMA - docs still vastly outnumber students in membership and leadership capacity. however - the disadvantages are that 1) AMSA does not have the resources that a larger organization with physician-level dues brings, and 2) they don't gain as much from elder wisdom. also - when you graduate, move into pracctice, and start thinking about some more of these "physician-oriented issues" - AMSA does not represent as strongly both in terms of priority and resources.

some on the listserv have expressed disagreement with AMSAs policies - some have chosen to pursue option <a>, refusing to join or withdrawing their membership, while other have chosen to pursue option <b>, getting involved and trying to make changes. i personally, have chosen option B, becuase i have not exausted the possibility that i just might be listened to on the things that i disagree with.

again, as with any of these organizations - it's an individual decision.

thanks for you time!!

 

[LukeWhite]

A very thoughtful post, TCOM, thanks.

What do you think the odds are of changing AMSA's major positions from within? Leadership structures are set up to promote their own agendas. The agenda of AMSA is to promote a set of--let's just say it--very leftish policies. It's simply inconceivable that their position on late-term abortion will change because people who disagree join.

In the meantime, you've given them your money and your tacit support, and they're running around sending out press releases about anything that pops into their head.

May I ask what positions of AMSA's you disagree with and what you've done to change them? Can you propose a plausible mechanism by which someone who, say, thought that AMSA should avoid making political statements about war, could manage to effect this change within four years?

I don't mean to berate too much, but AMSA's a scam. Yes, it consists only of med students. That's exactly why it's nearly impossible to turn it into a thoughtful organization--four years isn't enough time to accomplish it, particularly when med students are distracted with other things. AMSA is a vehicle for an ideology, and it's built on the backs of students who either agree with that ideology, or in the other 99% of cases, just go with the flow.

When AMSA starts holding member referendums on all its positions, I'll start according it some credibility. Until then, I'll continue to regard it as the self-perpetuating knot of ill-informed hysteria it gives every indication of being.

 

[jhug]

i also appreciate the post tcom, and i could not agree more with lw...
amsa presents itself with this great, neutral, just-for-the-student facade...when in reality, it is an organization i wouldn't want a single member of my class to join. Most of amsa's policy has nothing to do with healthcare, let alone medical students (ie:against missle defence, war in iraq, guns only for military/police...and THEY HAVE NO STANCE ON MEDICAL LIABILITY!!!) could that be because they are more liberal than john kerry/edwards (and the fact that edwards is a lying, stealing lawyer??? "i feel as if i am speaking on behalf of this dead little girl that you should sue her doctor"...what a load of crap!)
I wouldn't let a loved one join amsa bc i don't want $70 going towards amsa's leftist agendas...how do they fund all the trash they do??? partly through the $70 people pay to join. That would be contributing to the detriment of my profession, and something is telling me i don't want to do that.
the biggest kisser for me is i like the people in amsa...the leaders at my school are great people...it's that i think the club isn't worth the polar, partisan agenda it pushes (rather deceivingly too) and i REALLY don't like it when people claim to do/say things on my behalf when, in reality, it couldn't be further from the truth. I find it sad that so many good/smart people are putting so much valuable time and resources into such a wasteless abyss of lies and misguided ideas...

 

[TomC727]

LLP,

Whle AMSA provides a free Netter's, it also endorses and fights for quite a few positions that are at the very least not consensus stands, and in many cases way out of the mainstream. Most recently, AMSA's made a big deal about the fact that tort reform isn't terribly high on its list of priorities compared to a more socialized system of healthcare in the US, and has fought against the war in Iraq.

For those who agree with positions like that, AMSA's great. Lots don't, though, and yet AMSA still styles itself as the voice of American med students. It gets some of this legitimacy by signing up huge numbers of students who are in it for the free Netter's. Joining AMSA, for most students, is a bit like joining PETA for a free falafel. Most students who join don't know the positions they're tacitly endorsing, and with the huge amount of work in med school, never bother to find out. Meanwhile, AMSA's using their membership to pad its far-out positions with legitimacy-in-numbers.

Besides, Rohen's way better!

That was the exact reason why I joined SOMA and turned down a renewal of my membership to AMSA. I am not a fan of many of their stances, especially their silence on Tort Reform yet their huge support of socialized medicine.

 

[STAC]

For the record, I am a conservative republican from Texas, and I am voting for Bush. I am also the president of AMSA at my school. You don't have to be a gay democrat abortionist to join AMSA.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

....you just have to support them then, I guess.

How can you say you are a Republican???
Were you thinking about your CV only and not what you might be representing and supporting??? I can see how this happened since you weren't even in medical school when you became the president at your school...

 

[OSUdoc08]

....you just have to support them then, I guess.

How can you say you are a Republican???
Were you thinking about your CV only and not what you might be representing and supporting??? I can see how this happened since you weren't even in medical school when you became the president at your school...

AMSA's policy is that they dont support a particular party---they are nonpartisan. Period.

 

[LukeWhite]

Nonpartisan doesn't mean apolitical, and it most certainly doesn't mean balanced. AMSA says a lot of things--what it actually practices is a different matter.

OSUdoc, you've said that AMSA has no policies, and yet now you're saying that one of their policies is to be nonpartisan. This, despite the fact that AMSA's policies (yes, they most definitely *do* have policies, stated explicitly) more or less toe a party line; it doesn't take a lot of research to figure out which.

I'll pose the same question to you, OSUdoc--what AMSA positions do you disagree with, and what are you doing to change them? Can you give us an idea of a specific process by which someone could plausibly reverse one of AMSA's positions within their four years of med school?

And I'll take it one step further--why are you in AMSA, let alone a chapter president? What good have they done that it seems worth your while to put effort into an organization that holds positions presumably diametrically opposed to your own?

As for myself, if I were invited into a hypothetical med student organization that claimed its goals were improving general healthcare for the poor, advocating for med students, and killing caged puppies with poison darts for sport, I'd probably be unlikely to think that it was a good organization to join and change from within. Maybe it would be better to find a different organization.

 

[jhug]

AMSA's policy is that they dont support a particular party---they are nonpartisan. Period.

hahaahaha haahahahahahaa
whoo, my side is hurting

john edwards can say he is speaking on behalf of or hearing some dead kid say he was wrongly killed and getting juries to fork over huge settlements against innocent physicians...but do you REALLY think he's possessed by these kids???? amsa can say they don't support a particular party but anybody with just ONE synapting neuron can see that if hillary clinton was a med student she'd be at the helm of amsa!!!

nonpartisan...that is almost as foolish as your denying amsa's policy, then erasing your post when you find out it is true, and then saying those against a single-payer system just don't want others to have access to health care...
you are a bright guy who joined a crummy org. appearing to not know what you were getting into...cut your losses and get out...

have you read this YET? http://www.amsa.org/election2004/comparison.pdf
it'll take 5 min. it's worth it

 

[TCOM-2006]

A very thoughtful post, TCOM, thanks.

What do you think the odds are of changing AMSA's major positions from within?

May I ask what positions of AMSA's you disagree with and what you've done to change them?

Can you propose a plausible mechanism by which someone who, say, thought that AMSA should avoid making political statements about war, could manage to effect this change within four years?


*from what i have *heard* from you and others - it is probably not very likely that significant change can occur in the short term (say 3-5 years), but i have not extensively tested this for myself. i'm the kind of guy who will will listen to whatever anyone will say, but i really want to find out first hand before making a final judgement. i'm also the kind of person who is not very opinionated - because i try not to form strong conclusions until i feel like i have a very firm grasp on the issue (this can make me a pretty boring person to argue with).

*anyway - since i have not extensively tested this myself, i will fully admit that i have not been the active member that i portayed as ideal in my earlier post (unfortunately, i don't have limitless amouts of time). there are things i disagree with about AMSA's policy (which i will discuss in a later post... i'm not totally dodging your second question here!) - so i spend most of my time in an organization that i more closely identify with, and will ultimately make more of an impact because of it's resources, the AMA.

*the mechanism for change is to submit a resolution that calls for change in any policy you are interested in at AMSA's national meeting. of course - if you want it to pass, you should try and do some convincing / coalition building before hand, and vet your pro and con arguments. the organization leadership must uphold / abide by the policy passed by the HOD - if not, the organizations loses all legitimacy. of course - many would question whether the organization has already lost its legitimacy...

*i would be interested in OSUdoc's response to this question - he's someone who is clearly involved in an organization that he must have some policy disagreements about, given his political perspective. And as a side note - i think what OSUdoc is saying about AMSA being "nonpartisan" (ie - not endorsing a political party) is technically true in the sense that they do not "officially" endorse (in name or by giving campaign contributions) one party, or candidates from one party, or one presidential candidate. however, AMSA does officially endorse certain policies (ie - single payer healthcare system), which require legislation... and this legislation happens to be supported by one particular party (ie - D) or a fringe of that political party. the "political" and the "policy" parts of this discussion are distinct but obviously very related. however, i suspect (and have observed) that some who are involved in AMSA don't keep the "political" and the "policy" seperate - which leads to bashing of candidates, the republican party and even the AMA.

*I also have another question for OSUdoc - if i could convince you that the AMA and the AMA-MSS are 1) bipartisan, 2) student-friendly 3) DO and DO student friendly, and 4) will have a stronger impact on healthcare than any other physician or medical student group - would you want to become involved? i realize that it's difficult since OSU-COM does not have an AMA chapter on campus - and therefore students don't get much exposure to what the organization can offer. if you are getting your perspective of the AMA only from AMSA leadership - then i encourage you to investigate it for yourself.

*more to come later - i'm out of time now.

bl

 

[TCOM-2006]

just wondering if anyone (does not have to be OSUdoc) would like to respond to the second part of this post i made a couple of weeks ago. i can give you information about student leadership opportunities in the AMA if you're interested. thanks.

 

[OSUdoc08]

just wondering if anyone (does not have to be OSUdoc) would like to respond to the second part of this post i made a couple of weeks ago. i can give you information about student leadership opportunities in the AMA if you're interested. thanks.

I wouldn't rule out AMA & AMA-MSS, however, AMA-MSS & SOMA are both dependent medical student organizations to higher physician organizations. AMSA is an independent group, without any physician regulation, but led by medical students. Perhaps they support some things that others don't, however doesn't everyone disagree with AMA & AOA about things as well? Realize that their main goal is to do what is best for medical students----the key to change is to become involved.

 

[TCOM-2006]

I wouldn't rule out AMA & AMA-MSS, however, AMA-MSS & SOMA are both dependent medical student organizations to higher physician organizations. AMSA is an independent group, without any physician regulation, but led by medical students. Perhaps they support some things that others don't, however doesn't everyone disagree with AMA & AOA about things as well? Realize that their main goal is to do what is best for medical students----the key to change is to become involved.

there is something to be said for an independent medical student organization - and, as i have mentioned before, AMSA definitely has a role to play.

it's also worth pointing out, as i have before, that the AMA involves students at every level, including as a full voting member of the board of trustees, and our concerns are listened to and acted on (i believe i have already mentioned the success rate that we have had in getting our resolutions through the AMA house). the physician dues funding, along with other funding, also make the organization very large and influential.

yes - i agree with you that there are probably things within each organization that everyone would disagree with - and the key, as you mentioned, is to get involved in order to help shape the organization.

the AMA-MSS has an osteopathic caucus (we call it "the OC") composed of DO students involved in the AMA - and anyone can join the listserv by sending an email to: [email protected] basically the purpose of the caucus is:
--to serve as an opportunity to discuss AMA-MSS resolutions, especially those that pertain to the DO profession
--promote involvement of DO students in the AMA
--help educate our MD friends about our branch of the medical profession and to help promote mutual respect.

in line with bullet 2, we would like to make every DO school aware of the leadership opportunities and membership benefits in being involved in the AMA, and we think that students should be able to decide if they want to form an AMA chapter (currently, aprox half od DO schools have AMA chapters). if anyone in interested in learning more about this - feel free to contact me.

bl

 

[LukeWhite]

AMSA is an independent group, without any physician regulation, but led by medical students. ... Realize that their main goal is to do what is best for medical students----the key to change is to become involved.

I'll ask it again--how does endorsing partial birth abortion and condemning the war in Iraq help medical students?

For all this talk about other organizations' dependence on physician "regulation," it seems to me that the most paternalistic group of them all is AMSA. Instead of working for things that 99% of med students would find useful, it spends its time on things it presumably *thinks* we should want.

Perhaps the key to change is indeed to become involved, but the key to becoming involved is to be convinced that the organization has some merit. I haven't seen anything that convinces me it does; why work for (unlikely) change in an organization that's headed 180 degrees in the wrong direction?

This post isn't for the sake of contention. OSUdoc, I'd really be interested to hear what AMSA's done for us lately (no residency workweeks, please; I want something that's truly AMSA's doing) and why you think its good outweighs the harm its positions on abortion, war, tort reform, and socialized medicine do to med students and the reputation of the profession in general. Specificity would be appreciated. What reason do we have to join in the first place? Vague talk about student-run, etc, won't cut it. Make your sale.

 

[texdrake]

Perhaps rather than bombard AMSA you all should take a look at both groups. Very little mention of SOMA in here.

I will tell you that I think their are different strokes for different folks. At my school, when I was there, AMSA was a very active organization, bringing in speakers and educational opportunities. They even held a sub-regional conference. SOMA on the other hand did practically nothing. The few things I can remember them doing were actually put on or brought about by other people or organizations and they just threw their hat in the ring. The other reason why I am not an active member (although I am sitll a member I believe) of SOMA anymore is that I found that at both the local and regional level their was a significant anti-MD sentiment. One should join organizations that further your beliefs and your educational goals and/or help you treat your patients better. I do not tolerate any group that harbors anti-cooperative efforts between MD's and DO's. Seperate but equal. Now I am not saying that this is SOMA's party line, but I did see it quite noticeably at the local and regional levels and I have no doubt that it is linked to the fact that SOMA is a directs student extenstion of the AOA where several older DO's are that still have some resentment.

Does this make SOMA a bad organization? No. It just didn't have the greatest leadership at my school and I felt that I got very little out of being a member. AMSA on the otherhand has provided me with a lot.

EVERY ORGANIZATION of this magnitude has policies/platforms on most issues like those pointed out above. AMSA is not alone in that, SOMA has similar policies. One reason thought that you don't see SOMA's stances on different issues is that they are much less politically envolved than AMSA. SOMA is a student extension of the AOA, meant to help intiate students into the AOA and get them involved, they really don't need to state a stance because their stance will always be that of the AOA. AMSA on the otherhand is an independent organization so it has to be more politically active to thrive.

I will say that AMSA is fairly liberal in general.

I think that one should research both and consider which fits you more. I have only one last caveat. Some on this post have mentioned that they don't like an organization that picks party lines or has policies on certain issues....well my friend, that is exactly what professional organizations are suppose to do. They are their to fight for their ideals. If you dont' believe in them then don't join, but know that many of SOMA's issues are very much inline with AMSA's.

 

[texdrake]

I'll ask it again--how does endorsing partial birth abortion and condemning the war in Iraq help medical students?

It is an organizations job to endorse sides of current issues.

That being said I have to agree with you a little here, the 2nd issue is very much not important to their organization. The first however is a legitimate issue. AMSA works very closely with Planned Parenthood and has adopted many of their stances. This is a medical issue so it is reasonable.

As far as the war goes....well lets just say that at the national level their are several AMSA people that are a bit to political. They feel they need to express their opinion on everything so they bring 100's of motions up before the boards....some pass. Unfortunately they don't as of now have someone that strikes down stance issues that are presented and are of non-medical origin.

I will tell you that I like AMSA and really feel it does a lot of what I want, but these are a few of the issues that need to be worked with.

 

[texdrake]

Oh, and I didn't look deep but someone asked what has AMSA done? From the front page of their website:

As the only medical organization to ban all pharmaceutical marketing in its publications and events, AMSA has long been educating medical students on the industry's biased marketing practices. In 2002, AMSA developed the PharmFree Campaign in collaboration with No Free Lunch and Dr. Bob Goodman, to educate and train medical students to professionally and ethically interact with the pharmaceutical industry. On December 8, 2004, AMSA will recognize the first annual National PharmFree Day

I am a member of AMSA and I do support limiting pharm involvement although not quite to the degree of AMSA, still here was the first answer to the question offered....took about 3 seconds to find

Also check out: http://www.amsa.org/about/priorities.cfm

Do your research, join the organization that best suits you.

 

[LukeWhite]

We bombard AMSA because AMSA claims to represent us. In press release after press release, it represents itself as *the* organization for medical students. Well, if it styles itself that, it had better represent what med students think and want. You've hit the nail on the head--the national leaders are too political. They're the leaders, though, *because* they're too political.

As far as the PharmFree campaign, I'm not exactly sure what I get out of this--sign a pledge and in return get....fewer free lunches? It's another instance of AMSA rather vainly pursuing goals it considers idealistic. Something for the president to put on the resume (I saw it! And oh, so proud they were of PharmFree) while a few med students skip the pizza line and then grimly intone the evils of Big Business to their fellow students who have no idea what's being sold. I sure as heck don't plan on remembering a drug someone talks to me about this year when I finally have the chance to prescribe it years and years down the line.

The pizza, though, I'll remember forever.

 

[texdrake]

We bombard AMSA because AMSA claims to represent us. In press release after press release, it represents itself as *the* organization for medical students. Well, if it styles itself that, it had better represent what med students think and want.

Ummmm....NO.

1. They do not represent themselves as the "the organization for medical students", they represent themselves as "The largest medical student organization" which is a big difference and their claim is 100% true. They have never represented themselves as "the organization for medical students"

2. It is completely impossible to represent what all "med students think and want". As you know many people have a diffence in opinion, AMSA represents those with similar views, its your choice to join. While you may not agree with them, I can tell you that AMSA does represent want many students "think and want" just not what all "think and want". That is fairly impossible and any organization that claimed they could do so would be laying false claims.

3. AMSA has never claimed to represent all medical students views. They do though claim to represent their members views and they claim to fight for rights of ALL medical students. Views and professional rights are two different things.

Incidentally SOMA loudly proclaims to represent ALL osteopathic students and I can tell you right now that I fully disagree with several of their ideals...so I guess that means they are lying according to you.....

 

[LukeWhite]

Obviously no one would argue that AMSA claims to represent every last medical student's views to the letter. What they DO claim is an aura of legitimacy, and a quick run through their website's press releases will show you that they do indeed make the claim to speak on behalf not only of themselves, but med students in general.

As for not being able to represent every view, that's a straw man. They might start by representing a couple commonly-held views in the first place. By and large, AMSA doesn't do much representing at all--it's advocacy for a very specific set of principles. There's a place for that, but it can't coexist with a claim to broad legitimacy.

Further, as you and I both know, a vast majority of AMSA's members sign up for the free Netter's with no idea with what AMSA stands for. As a certain chapter president on this thread has demonstrated, having even a basic knowledge of what AMSA stands for isn't prerequisite for membership, let alone leadership in the organization. AMSA's taking minority positions and claiming majority support. At best, this is a bribe; I'd prefer to be realistic and call it willful misrepresentation.

 

[texdrake]

Further, as you and I both know, a vast majority of AMSA's members sign up for the free Netter's with no idea with what AMSA stands for. As a certain chapter president on this thread has demonstrated, having even a basic knowledge of what AMSA stands for isn't prerequisite for membership, let alone leadership in the organization. AMSA's taking minority positions and claiming majority support. At best, this is a bribe; I'd prefer to be realistic and call it willful misrepresentation.

I would venture to say that a vast majority of people going any clubs is for reasons similar. many of the other organizations have the same type of programs...even SOMA.

 

[Globus P]

AMSA's official logo.

 

[jhug]

honorary amsa presidents!!!

 

[LukeWhite]

Heh. As for this:

The first however is a legitimate issue. AMSA works very closely with Planned Parenthood and has adopted many of their stances. This is a medical issue so it is reasonable.

A little relativistic? The fact that it's a medical issue (arguable) doesn't mean that any given position is reasonable. AMSA's flies in the face of reason, dignity, and compassion for human life. It's a position, I'll grant you that, but reasonable it's not. If organizations gain legitimacy just by *having* positions, regardless of what those positions are, I'd sooner join up with Hamas; they have cooler hats, and no ban on pharm freebies.

 

[texdrake]

Heh. As for this:

A little relativistic? The fact that it's a medical issue (arguable) doesn't mean that any given position is reasonable. AMSA's flies in the face of reason, dignity, and compassion for human life. It's a position, I'll grant you that, but reasonable it's not. If organizations gain legitimacy just by *having* positions, regardless of what those positions are, I'd sooner join up with Hamas; they have cooler hats, and no ban on pharm freebies.

Everyone has their own opinion. I would appreciate it if we kept the boards clean. This is a forum about the value of AMSA not a place to spout one's political beliefs or deny the values of other. Also as a future physician I hope you develop a little bit more compassion and understanding for other peoples values. Not everyone shares your beliefs.