To many EM electives?

[Erek94]

So Im in a position where I have 4 confirmed electives for this upcoming auidition season. Im a DO student and my core EM rotation is at a less than stellar facility and no residency affiliation. So to summarize I would be doing a total of 5 EM rotations my 4th year. We dont get to do one in our 3rd year. I imagine the pros of doing 4 EM electives at Allo programs would be the exposure for interviews and the experience but would this potentially be detrimental to my application later down the road? Would a program director see this as a negative thing or really not take note of it? I also understand that its advisable to get a SLOE from each place, so in the event that my ERAS letters to each program is full can I just individually send these letters to programs? I can back out of my last elective now without pissing anyone off since it was just confirmed.

Thanks in adavnce for your response.

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[DarkHorse22]

5 seems like a bunch.
Here is how it worked out for me (also a DO, also without a home EM rotation with residency)
I did one EM rotation as a 3rd yr at a DO residency just to make sure I was as interested as I thought I might be
Then I set up 3 away rotations all at allopathic residency institutions, in addition to my home EM rotation. Your math is correct, that is 5, with 4 of them in my fourth year.

The away rotations at allopathic programs, and the resulting SLOEs were the biggest strength of my application. For a DO attempting to match at an allo program, I think face time is key. I would do 3 away rotations as long as time and money allows and try to get a great SLOE at all of them. If you are hesitant about having too many on your application, do one in Tox or U/S, granting you exposure to the residency program, but in an EM sub specialty.

Incidentally, the only places that mentioned going on too many away rotations were DO programs. I'm not sure what that proves...

 

[racerwad]

I was a DO in a similar situation as you. We don't have a home EM program so I just did 4 aways. PDs did comment on it, but it was not negative. I told them I wanted to see a bunch of different types of places, so there you go.

Idk if it is a "waste" to do so many - you just need to have good reasoning behind your decisions. I mean, where else would you rather be, in some outpatient clinic or the ED?

 

[WalkingCorpse]

I did 4 months of aways. I am also a DO. While I don't regret it or think it hurt me in any way, I was burned out by that last month. Not burned out from working in ER's, but just tired of moving, living out of a suitcase, trying to arrange traveling to interviews, learning new names and navigating new hospitals every few weeks, being away from friends/family, etc.

 

[Pigg-O-Stat]

I don't see any downside to doing 4. You will get better each month and improve your chances of matching. I did 4 away rotations as a 4th year, and matched at the last place I went.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

I did 3. I think 2 is plenty but like you my med school didn't have an EM Residency at the time and I had to do one with the military anyway (my only away) so I ended up doing 3. One was in my third year actually. Since you are a DO and have significant risk of not matching because of that, I think doing 3-4 total is very reasonable for you. I think 5 is really pushing it. Some of that 4th year is SUPPOSED to be time off and electives in stuff you won't be going into.

Here's the deal with 5 in your 4th year. July, August, September, October, November. By the time anyone gets a letter from your October rotation, all the decisions have already been made. And November? I mean, you're interviewing by then. However many you do, I think you're done by the end of September. If you need/want to do more than 3, do them in your third year.

 

[Erek94]

I did 3. I think 2 is plenty but like you my med school didn't have an EM Residency at the time and I had to do one with the military anyway (my only away) so I ended up doing 3. One was in my third year actually. Since you are a DO and have significant risk of not matching because of that, I think doing 3-4 total is very reasonable for you. I think 5 is really pushing it. Some of that 4th year is SUPPOSED to be time off and electives in stuff you won't be going into.

Here's the deal with 5 in your 4th year. July, August, September, October, November. By the time anyone gets a letter from your October rotation, all the decisions have already been made. And November? I mean, you're interviewing by then. However many you do, I think you're done by the end of September. If you need/want to do more than 3, do them in your third year.

Thanks White Coat. Just to clarify. I have 2 electives are upfront starting late June spanning to the end of August are at Allopathic programs and will be my initial SLOEs for my application. The other 2 electives are at places that I just want face time at so I can get my foot in the door (literally and figuratively). Ill probably go ahead and do it, the living situation wont be a problem as I have arrangements with family and friends set up keeping costs down. I am concerned about burning out towards the end but as a DO it almost sounds like its a must do.

What Im still unsure about is the SLOE situation. I hear that even though its late that I should still get a SLOE from the last two programs I go to. What is the process of doing this? do I have them submitted to ERAS at that point or is there a way I can get them directly to certian programs?

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Thanks White Coat. Just to clarify. I have 2 electives are upfront starting late June spanning to the end of August are at Allopathic programs and will be my initial SLOEs for my application. The other 2 electives are at places that I just want face time at so I can get my foot in the door (literally and figuratively). Ill probably go ahead and do it, the living situation wont be a problem as I have arrangements with family and friends set up keeping costs down. I am concerned about burning out towards the end but as a DO it almost sounds like its a must do.

What Im still unsure about is the SLOE situation. I hear that even though its late that I should still get a SLOE from the last two programs I go to. What is the process of doing this? do I have them submitted to ERAS at that point or is there a way I can get them directly to certian programs?

I think it's reasonable if your only goal is to get "face time." Just remember that face time can hurt you as much as help you. Unless you are an outstanding med stud, it probably won't help and is probably more likely to hurt. Most med studs look better on paper than in person. So in that respect, the SLOEs from those rotations don't matter much, since they won't get anywhere in time.

Good luck! Hope everything works out well.

 

[racerwad]

Thanks White Coat. Just to clarify. I have 2 electives are upfront starting late June spanning to the end of August are at Allopathic programs and will be my initial SLOEs for my application. The other 2 electives are at places that I just want face time at so I can get my foot in the door (literally and figuratively). Ill probably go ahead and do it, the living situation wont be a problem as I have arrangements with family and friends set up keeping costs down. I am concerned about burning out towards the end but as a DO it almost sounds like its a must do.

What Im still unsure about is the SLOE situation. I hear that even though its late that I should still get a SLOE from the last two programs I go to. What is the process of doing this? do I have them submitted to ERAS at that point or is there a way I can get them directly to certian programs?

I respectfully disagree with WCI here. Regardless of timing, you need to get a SLOE if you are rotating at a program with a residency. It's a norm and telling those folks you're interested in EM but won't be needing a SLOE seems a little cray. While those extra SLOEs won't help with getting interviews, they may help when the programs are making their rank lists. It also gives you a reason to keep in touch with programs as well. When the later-season SLOEs come in, it become a great reason to get in touch. This could help with both those programs you've interviewed at as well as those you might still be waiting to hear back from. If your last EM rotation is in November, it should be available in time for the latter half of the interview season and certainly before rank lists are due. I did auditions from mid-July to mid-November. Idk if the later SLOEs helped but I matched exactly where I wanted to be.

As for how to get them to those respective programs (and you've filled your ERAS quota) your SLOE depends upon your school. Even if you're over the quota, you will give the program a letter of rec form from ERAS and they will upload it on your behalf. My school's registrar would then download it and forward it on to programs I designated - YMMV here.

 

[WalkingCorpse]

You can never have too many good letters of recommendation. Even if you don't end up using them all.

 

[DarkHorse22]

I think it's reasonable if your only goal is to get "face time." Just remember that face time can hurt you as much as help you. Unless you are an outstanding med stud, it probably won't help and is probably more likely to hurt. Most med studs look better on paper than in person. So in that respect, the SLOEs from those rotations don't matter much, since they won't get anywhere in time.

Good luck! Hope everything works out well.

This is a good point. Getting your foot in the door is excellent, as long as you are sure you can excel in the same manner as away rotation #1.
Also re SLOEs, still ask for them in the late rotations. PDs will look at the SLOEs with your app obviously, but could also ask you to provide letters from your later rotations. I was asked about other places I'd rotated and was happy to have a "reserve" SLOE from those spots just in case anyone asked (a few did). As already mentioned above, it can never hurt to have multiple good letters of rec. Just make sure they are going to be good.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

While those extra SLOEs won't help with getting interviews, they may help when the programs are making their rank lists. It also gives you a reason to keep in touch with programs as well. When the later-season SLOEs come in, it become a great reason to get in touch. .

You're probably right.

 

[Alejandro]

I have a couple aways scheduled for SLOEs (July/August), but am thinking about maybe one more in November or January. For me I have some regional preferences, and I have heard that a couple programs I'm looking into, they really interview their rotator pool. However, this program doesn't have the name/fame of being one of the 'big programs' so I'm essentially rotating just to make an impression (hopefully its positive) and as others have said, put me higher on their rank list.

 

[421822]

I have a couple aways scheduled for SLOEs (July/August), but am thinking about maybe one more in November or January. For me I have some regional preferences, and I have heard that a couple programs I'm looking into, they really interview their rotator pool. However, this program doesn't have the name/fame of being one of the 'big programs' so I'm essentially rotating just to make an impression (hopefully its positive) and as others have said, put me higher on their rank list.

I'm in a similar situation. I have auditions lined up for july, august, and october. A program I'm very interested in offered me a spot in January and I'm trying to decide now if I should take it, not for an SLOE, but to get my foot in the door. Is this too late to get an interview and placed on the waitlist?