To program directors, Are you considering the ADAT?

[stillinshock]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Would appreciate to know some feedback from program directors on this new test (ADAT).

 

[vellnueve]

I don't think PDs would actively post here.

 

[The OMFS]

If's not for program directors (except for most OMFS programs) to evaluate your understanding of the basic sciences and dentistry, when what is the hell is the ADAT for? Bragging rights?

 

[setdoc7]

What type of feedback are you looking for?

 

[armorshell]

I don't think PDs would actively post here.

Maybe not post, but I can tell you right now something I've learned over the past decade: Every single program director who can use a computer reads this forum.

This is a hard thing to do in isolation. Requiring a test that isn't the standard for whatever your specialty generally requires can be a death sentence. There has to be a significant mass of programs simulataneously adopting the test for it to function correctly.

Personally, I would rather utilize the ADAT as a screening tool for OMS residents over the current exam, as the current exam is biased and not statistically validated as an admissions exam. This will probably require years of work though.

 

[vellnueve]

Maybe not post, but I can tell you right now something I've learned over the past decade: Every single program director who can use a computer reads this forum.

This is a hard thing to do in isolation. Requiring a test that isn't the standard for whatever your specialty generally requires can be a death sentence. There has to be a significant mass of programs simulataneously adopting the test for it to function correctly.

Personally, I would rather utilize the ADAT as a screening tool for OMS residents over the current exam, as the current exam is biased and not statistically validated as an admissions exam. This will probably require years of work though.

Not saying they don't read, but I don't think the OP is going to get feedback from program directors. Nor does he state he's looking at OMS specifically.

The NBDE wasn't ever designed as an admissions test either - The CBSE is rough as hell but I'm not sure what improvement, if any, the ADAT will be.

 

[movethatcanine7]

i didn't think the ADAT was that bad of a test . It was extremely short in comparison to NBDE part2, and more relevant. I decided to study very lightly, and I still think it is a test that you can't really "study" for. Now... over time, as more people take the test, I can see it becoming more competitive and more intensive studying will be necessary to compete with others.

Not sure where the future is heading with the ADAT. I don't think the test is adequate enough to totally replace the NBDE part 2. The NBDE2 is a great opportunity for dental students to revisit all the topics covered in dental school and really synthesize it all again to make sense of it. It covers so much information and is such a lengthy exam, that students must study to pass. For the ADAT, while it does cover some of the same stuff, it is such a short exam that I don't think it really pushes students to study the vast amount of information that you would for the NBDE II. Oh, and not to mention it covers part 1 stuff that is COMPLETELY random (don't even attempt to study for that portion - you could waste weeks reviewing everything about Histo, Biochem and Gross and you would probably still see majority of questions that are completely foreign) so that's even more incentive not to study.

But then again, maybe that is the purpose of the ADAT? To gauge an applicant's raw knowledge accumulated over their entire dental school career to avoid skewed scores from those who are good at short-term memory (let's face it... a lot of the skill it takes to be successful academically in dental school is the ability to memorize a lot of information quickly, and then toss it out before the next big exam). They may want to decipher those students from the ones that have the ability to learn quickly and retain information for the long-term.

Now I'm rambling. Nonetheless, It will be interesting to see where the ADAT goes in the coming years, whether NBDE will still exist, and CBCSE as well. At the end of the day, the ADA needs to figure it out. It is outrageous that someone, like myself, had to take 3 huge exams (NBDE II, GRE and ADAT) during my most academically challenging year in dental school. I'm just glad it is over.

From now on, the ADAT will only become more competitive as more people take the test. I can see it being highly relied upon for residency programs in the next 5 years.

 

[armorshell]

Not saying they don't read, but I don't think the OP is going to get feedback from program directors. Nor does he state he's looking at OMS specifically.

The NBDE wasn't ever designed as an admissions test either - The CBSE is rough as hell but I'm not sure what improvement, if any, the ADAT will be.

I agree that the NBDE was never designed as an admissions test either, and the JCNDE did the right thing by converting it to pass/fail. From an admissions standpoint, the test was both invalid and unreliable in it's statistical construction. Funny thing is, that same statistical unreliability and invalidity was identified in the USMLE (and by association, NBME exams) in the 1990s. There's some evidence out there that the correlation between the USMLE and NBME is poor to non-existent with only a small number of attempts (<3).

In terms of why ADAT would be an improvement:
1. It's likely more standardized across curricula (Utilizing the NBME likely biases admissions towards dental schools where biosciences are taught as a joint curriculum with medical schools)
2. It includes assessments on data interpretation, research and professional ethics which are much larger than any other exam of it's type that I've seen, and probably more important for resident selection than biosciences/clinical knowledge
3. It has the statistical power to be utilized as a standardized exam.

 

[vellnueve]

i didn't think the ADAT was that bad of a test . It was extremely short in comparison to NBDE part2, and more relevant. I decided to study very lightly, and I still think it is a test that you can't really "study" for. Now... over time, as more people take the test, I can see it becoming more competitive and more intensive studying will be necessary to compete with others.

Not sure where the future is heading with the ADAT. I don't think the test is adequate enough to totally replace the NBDE part 2. The NBDE2 is a great opportunity for dental students to revisit all the topics covered in dental school and really synthesize it all again to make sense of it. It covers so much information and is such a lengthy exam, that students must study to pass. For the ADAT, while it does cover some of the same stuff, it is such a short exam that I don't think it really pushes students to study the vast amount of information that you would for the NBDE II. Oh, and not to mention it covers part 1 stuff that is COMPLETELY random (don't even attempt to study for that portion - you could waste weeks reviewing everything about Histo, Biochem and Gross and you would probably still see majority of questions that are completely foreign) so that's even more incentive not to study.

But then again, maybe that is the purpose of the ADAT? To gauge an applicant's raw knowledge accumulated over their entire dental school career to avoid skewed scores from those who are good at short-term memory (let's face it... a lot of the skill it takes to be successful academically in dental school is the ability to memorize a lot of information quickly, and then toss it out before the next big exam). They may want to decipher those students from the ones that have the ability to learn quickly and retain information for the long-term.

Now I'm rambling. Nonetheless, It will be interesting to see where the ADAT goes in the coming years, whether NBDE will still exist, and CBCSE as well. At the end of the day, the ADA needs to figure it out. It is outrageous that someone, like myself, had to take 3 huge exams (NBDE II, GRE and ADAT) during my most academically challenging year in dental school. I'm just glad it is over.

From now on, the ADAT will only become more competitive as more people take the test. I can see it being highly relied upon for residency programs in the next 5 years.

I don't see the NBDE going away.

 

[setdoc7]

So..... first......I am a GPR PD.
The ADAT was a pilot test this year which took 3 years to produce. It came about after the fall ADEA meeting 3 years ago in Oklahoma City, although there are those who say it was being considered before that. One of the reasons it was advanced was the fact that 10 schools are P/F, with no solid metric to evaluate these students against graded candidates for post graduate residency. The ADAT will continue to improve.
The NBDE 1&2 are scheduled to be replaced in a few years by the INBDE (integrated national board). One test at beginning of 4th year. It is currently being written. I imagine dental education will change along with it, as questions are integrated with both clinical and basic science component.

I am of course interested in seeing test results from the ADAT on applications, but will not require it this cycle.