To retake or not to retake.....that is the question

[harkasan]

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Sorry for that cheesy title. Something in me just had to do it.

Anyways......here's my situation. I have now been out of undergrad for 5 years now and I am trying to get into medical school. Back in undergrad, I did really well my freshman year (3.45 BCPM and 3.62 AO) but after the first year I went way to the other side of the spectrum ending up with a cumulative 2.66 BCPM and 3.2 AO). In that mess, I ended up with a few C's in Organic Chemistry and a couple D's....one in Orgo II and Physics II. I blame that mess on being a young kid growing up in a sheltered small town going to college in New Orleans. Bad combo.

I did a one year Masters program in cell biology at Tulane after my undergrad and did alright.....nothing outstanding here. Took the MCAT after this.....scored a 23 and threw in some applications after some bad advice. Needless to say there was no interest from any schools.

After the Masters, I worked in a Clinical Lab at UCSF for a couple years. Since we were on the same floor as the unit we were doing labs for, I did get a lot of clinical exposure during those two years. This was in the Neonatal ICN. During this time I took a few classes here and there.....an anatomy class which I became a teaching assistant for the following semester, and a psychology class. I got a third wind for wanting to go to medical school, quit my job, moved back to New Orleans, retook orgo II (improved grade from D to C), retook physics II (improved grade from D to A), and retook the mcat (improved from 23 to 26). Now I'm applying again. No bites again.

So my question here is this. I still have a couple C's in those prerec's. Should I retake those courses to bring them up to A's? Do you think that will have any effect with the adcoms? I've been told before that I shouldn't retake a course and instead I should take an upper division course to show that I know that material. I've also been told that it is a good idea to retake the prerec's if you got anything less than a B since these are the main classes med schools look at. I know that the mcat is on the low side as well. I've taken that thing about 7 times now, but only 3 in the past 4 years (I took it 4 times from my undergrad days on going with bad advise and scoring beyond bad on the tests). So I know that hurts me with the number of times I've taken that test.

What do you guys think? Sorry this was so long, but thanks for reading!!!

 

[psychedoc2b]

Sorry for that cheesy title. Something in me just had to do it.

Anyways......here's my situation. I have now been out of undergrad for 5 years now and I am trying to get into medical school. Back in undergrad, I did really well my freshman year (3.45 BCPM and 3.62 AO) but after the first year I went way to the other side of the spectrum ending up with a cumulative 2.66 BCPM and 3.2 AO). In that mess, I ended up with a few C's in Organic Chemistry and a couple D's....one in Orgo II and Physics II. I blame that mess on being a young kid growing up in a sheltered small town going to college in New Orleans. Bad combo.

I did a one year Masters program in cell biology at Tulane after my undergrad and did alright.....nothing outstanding here. Took the MCAT after this.....scored a 23 and threw in some applications after some bad advice. Needless to say there was no interest from any schools.

After the Masters, I worked in a Clinical Lab at UCSF for a couple years. Since we were on the same floor as the unit we were doing labs for, I did get a lot of clinical exposure during those two years. This was in the Neonatal ICN. During this time I took a few classes here and there.....an anatomy class which I became a teaching assistant for the following semester, and a psychology class. I got a third wind for wanting to go to medical school, quit my job, moved back to New Orleans, retook orgo II (improved grade from D to C), retook physics II (improved grade from D to A), and retook the mcat (improved from 23 to 26). Now I'm applying again. No bites again.

So my question here is this. I still have a couple C's in those prerec's. Should I retake those courses to bring them up to A's? Do you think that will have any effect with the adcoms? I've been told before that I shouldn't retake a course and instead I should take an upper division course to show that I know that material. I've also been told that it is a good idea to retake the prerec's if you got anything less than a B since these are the main classes med schools look at. I know that the mcat is on the low side as well. I've taken that thing about 7 times now, but only 3 in the past 4 years (I took it 4 times from my undergrad days on going with bad advise and scoring beyond bad on the tests). So I know that hurts me with the number of times I've taken that test.

What do you guys think? Sorry this was so long, but thanks for reading!!!

Well,

I hate to say this but you should retake the MCAT to boost your scores to the 30's.

You could retake some of your prereq's but what is this going to prove. You already have a master's in cell bio. I suggest you to look into a master's in anatomy program like say at USC in CA or Georgetown or RUFHS in North Chicago. This will allow you to take med school courses with the med students and see if you can do well in this situation. While doing this program, retake the MCAT and try to really boost your scores.

Did you take Kaplan and/or Princeton Review? You should take one of these couses and focus on preparing for the MCAT when the time comes.

I knew one person who has 3 masters. One in chem., one in biochem, and one in anatomy. The last one he took at USC and he did well that he got into med school. His Mcat scores were in the mid-30's though and his undergrad GPA was 2.67 and his grad GPA a 3.65

I wish you the best. You should also ask a pre-med advisor for advice. It's good you have posted your questions here because I assume you will get some other responses.

psychedoc2b

 

[blee]

Welcome to SDN. 🙂

Your MCAT score is solid, but it is not impressive. You could take it again if you wish. At the same time, you have already taken it twice and have scored below 30 both times. If you honestly believe you can do better on a third attempt, then do it; otherwise, you may not want to waste your time.

As for classes, I would not recommend you re-take the pre-reqs. I think adcoms would raise their eyebrows at seeing recent undergrad level coursework after having attained an advanced science degree. Your best bet for showing scholastic aptitude at this point is probably in a special master's program like those suggested by psychedoc2b. They are somewhat selective but I think you would qualify. You would be taking courses with first-year med students, and strong performance in one of these programs would be a strong asset to your application.

 

[efex101]

I will disagree with the above posts...I think that "masters" degrees although an asset do not prove as much about "hacking" it academic wise than let's say some upper level division bio/chem classes. This is not my thinking but through the years from reading and talking to adcoms. I am not saying that it will not look good but to look good your GPA in the masters better be top notch and from your post it was "okay". I would for one meet with various medical school admissions directors and see what THEY have to say. If they say hey go get another master degree then go for it...but I bet some will like to see that you can actually kick arse on upper level science classes at the undergrad level where the competition is more fierce. You need to PROVE that you can master and ace these classes a C is NOT going to cut it because you are trying to make up a soso GPA. You need to get A's period. The MCAT needs to go up substantially to a 30 so you are competitive so buckle down and study hard for it.

 

[psychedoc2b]

I will disagree with the above posts...I think that "masters" degrees although an asset do not prove as much about "hacking" it academic wise than let's say some upper level division bio/chem classes. This is not my thinking but through the years from reading and talking to adcoms. I am not saying that it will not look good but to look good your GPA in the masters better be top notch and from your post it was "okay". I would for one meet with various medical school admissions directors and see what THEY have to say. If they say hey go get another master degree then go for it...but I bet some will like to see that you can actually kick arse on upper level science classes at the undergrad level where the competition is more fierce. You need to PROVE that you can master and ace these classes a C is NOT going to cut it because you are trying to make up a soso GPA. You need to get A's period. The MCAT needs to go up substantially to a 30 so you are competitive so buckle down and study hard for it.

Hmm,

The master's in anatomy is taken with other med students to see whether one can hack med school courses. One takes histo, neuro, anatomy,physio, etc. Again, I believe, that since the OP has a master's in cell bio, retaking these same courses with the undergrads would be a definite waste of time. I think the competition is fierce if one takes med school courses with the med students.

I think a post-bac program would be helpful to raise your GPA but what new courses could the OP take at the undergrad level unless it was pchem or inorganic chem or some course that would not be helpful for med school.

I think it would be a good idea to talk to the admissions counselor at the med school to which you want to go. If you are still in CA, check out USC's anatomy program.

Again, talk to some pre-med advisors also. Talkto as many people in the medical field and on pre-med commitees. Then, you can make a decision from there.

Definitely rock the MCAT. I believe GPA is school dependent. The MCAT is the best barometer of how well you know your pre-med material.

Best wishes,
psychedoc2b

 

[efex101]

I see, maybe this is a "special" masters program ...then yes that might be more in line with what the OP needs...regardless I would consult a variety of medical school in person or e-mail (schools that you are interested in applying to) and see what their suggestions are...

 

[blee]

Definitely consult with the admissions office of a nearby medical school to see what might work best. That said, I do know that programs like Georgetown's SMP are relatively well regarded and boast strong acceptance rates.

 

[harkasan]

Thanks for the many replies you guys. Yes that masters program was one of those "special" one year deals without a thesis. Looking back on it, I think it was a pretty bad idea for me to do that program. It was the first year they were doing it (oh.....this was at Tulane) and they had no real idea what they were doing. We took undergrad classes with an extra project which was usually a paper at the end of the semester.....and we got "graduate" credit for this. We were supposed to have classes or seminars for MCAT preparation, but this never came about. Please tell me it's not like this at other "special" masters programs? Statistically it was very successful as out of the 15 people in the program.....I think only about 3 didn't get into med school a year or two after completing the program. These people were better off to start with numberwise.

I don't know if upperlevel science courses will do much for me. I was a chem major undergrad and with that masters program I took a bunch of upperlevel bio courses. So you guys think retaking those basic prereq's to at least soften the D's is a bad idea?

So with the MCAT thingy......I've taken that test 7 times. A few people have told me that having taking it this many times, a solid score (30 or above) still doesn't look great after scoring mid to low 20 4-5 times because it shows a trend. Scoring a 30 will look like a lucky day with the averages. Getting that kind of advice is a real downer ya know? Basically they make it sound like there is nothing in the world you can do to get in.

I haven't looked into these masters in anatomy programs. I know Tulane Med School has one, but you must have an interview from some medical school to qualify. Do you guys know what the basic requirements are?

And now for my forum question.......is it in bad taste if I repost the original post in the reapp section to see if I can get other ideas?

 

[blee]

I don't know if upperlevel science courses will do much for me. I was a chem major undergrad and with that masters program I took a bunch of upperlevel bio courses. So you guys think retaking those basic prereq's to at least soften the D's is a bad idea?

So with the MCAT thingy......I've taken that test 7 times. A few people have told me that having taking it this many times, a solid score (30 or above) still doesn't look great after scoring mid to low 20 4-5 times because it shows a trend. Scoring a 30 will look like a lucky day with the averages. Getting that kind of advice is a real downer ya know? Basically they make it sound like there is nothing in the world you can do to get in.

I haven't looked into these masters in anatomy programs. I know Tulane Med School has one, but you must have an interview from some medical school to qualify. Do you guys know what the basic requirements are?

And now for my forum question.......is it in bad taste if I repost the original post in the reapp section to see if I can get other ideas?

Again, check with an admissions officer to be sure, but my feeling is that someone with your transcript would not benefit greatly from re-taking basic science courses. But I could be wrong.

As for the MCAT -- seven times is a lot. I really would not recommend you take it again unless you know you can do significantly better. Don't be too discouraged, though; your MCAT score is not all there is to admissions. Taking it an eighth time would probably be a waste of your time and energy.

As for SMP programs, here's Georgetown's web page:

http://www.georgetown.edu/departments/physiology/physios/

 

[njbmd]

So my question here is this. I still have a couple C's in those prerec's. Should I retake those courses to bring them up to A's? Do you think that will have any effect with the adcoms? I've been told before that I shouldn't retake a course and instead I should take an upper division course to show that I know that material. I've also been told that it is a good idea to retake the prerec's if you got anything less than a B since these are the main classes med schools look at. I know that the mcat is on the low side as well. I've taken that thing about 7 times now, but only 3 in the past 4 years (I took it 4 times from my undergrad days on going with bad advise and scoring beyond bad on the tests). So I know that hurts me with the number of times I've taken that test.

What do you guys think? Sorry this was so long, but thanks for reading!!!

Hi there,
You could take a shot at the Special Masters in Physiology at Georgetown but you are below their acceptance stats and this program is very, very expensive along with living in DC which is also very, very expensive.

You should not re-take undergraduate courses if you have completed a Masters degree in Cell Biology. Your graduate work more than proves that you can handle the medical curriculum. After going though a graduate program in the sciences, back-tracking is not a good idea. Instead, you might want to work on figuring out how to get your MCAT score up.

You need to really do some serious investigative work and figure out if you have a basic knowledge gap or a problem applying the knowledge. If you have the latter, you can be better served taking a good prep couse that emphasizes test-taking strategy rather than just reviewing pre-medical factoids. If you have a knowledge gap, then you might look into auditing the courses that you need rather than taking them for credit. Often students who are auditing, learn more without the pressure of having to work for a particular grade.

The multiple MCATs are not going to be in your favor but you can do some damage control by making sure that the next time you take that test, you score well. Medical school is all about being able to take and pass standardized tests (USMLE, COMLEX, Specialty Boards) which have huge implications on your ability to practice medicine. Try to get your problems with the MCAT worked out and choose your schools wisely.

njbmd 🙂

 

[harkasan]

Hi there,
You could take a shot at the Special Masters in Physiology at Georgetown but you are below their acceptance stats and this program is very, very expensive along with living in DC which is also very, very expensive.

You should not re-take undergraduate courses if you have completed a Masters degree in Cell Biology. Your graduate work more than proves that you can handle the medical curriculum. After going though a graduate program in the sciences, back-tracking is not a good idea. Instead, you might want to work on figuring out how to get your MCAT score up.

You need to really do some serious investigative work and figure out if you have a basic knowledge gap or a problem applying the knowledge. If you have the latter, you can be better served taking a good prep couse that emphasizes test-taking strategy rather than just reviewing pre-medical factoids. If you have a knowledge gap, then you might look into auditing the courses that you need rather than taking them for credit. Often students who are auditing, learn more without the pressure of having to work for a particular grade.

The multiple MCATs are not going to be in your favor but you can do some damage control by making sure that the next time you take that test, you score well. Medical school is all about being able to take and pass standardized tests (USMLE, COMLEX, Specialty Boards) which have huge implications on your ability to practice medicine. Try to get your problems with the MCAT worked out and choose your schools wisely.

njbmd 🙂

is there a list out there of the various special masters programs out there for people who are trying to get into medical school? I could probably search every school to find their programs, but I don't know from their descriptions if they are what I need. I've heard about the one in Georgetown, but like you said I don't think I'd have a very good shot at getting in with their requirements. unfortunately I think that my undergrad gpa takes me out of a lot of these programs. 🙁

have you guys heard of these special masters programs that are labeled "gpa enhancers?" my gpa could probably use a little boost as well. in my masters program at tulane, I think I got screwed a little bit as my gpa (3.4) in any other masters program would be the equivalent of getting a "C" average. this was due to them grading us among the undergrads in the class as well. I wasn't stellar in my program, but I don't think I did as bad as the gpa would indicate. I have a feeling that number would hurt me a bit.

my new question is about the prereq classes. I've been in the process of filling out secondaries and many of them ask you to fill in the grades and course titles of the prereq's. I took 1st semester biology for a grade, but never took the second semester evolution/zoology. I was an undergrad chem major and an advisor told me I wouldn't have to take it because I had an upperlevel bio course with a lab that adcoms would take as my second semester intro biology. any ideas on how valid that advice is?