To those of you who would NOT do it again...

[humuhumu]

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...where did you go wrong? When did you realize that going to med school was a huge mistake? When you were applying to med schools, is there ANYTHING that would have dissuaded you from your chosen path?

Like most premeds, I'm convinced that a career in medicine is a great fit for me, and it's hard to imagine becoming so disillusioned that I would regret ever pursuing it. You were probably in a similar place not too long ago. What happened?

 

[Justin4563]

whats up humuhumu


UMM good question and a question most premeds should ask.

I was as enthusiastic as you before i started.

I knew I went wrong probably the first 6 months. Medical education is an antagonistic process. Made to be tricky, deceiving in the way they ask questions and stuff. Nothing is straight forward. everything is underhanded. Remember as an undergraduate after a test you said man that test asked nothing that i studied for. well thats all the exams in medical school .The professors were mostly like that as well. Just not very encouraging. and when people fail out (which they do) they are made to feel that it was a character flaw on their part when in part its the system. I almost envy the people who realized in the 1st and 2nd years that this wasnt for them...... and not all of them failed out... they left on their own accord.

You realize that all the hard work is for not...... there is no recognition.. nobody gives a crap that you havent eaten in 9 hours or you havent slept in days studying.. you just get **** on and **** on and **** on.. by everyone.. They do it because they can and they will.

It wasnt all bad times but the bad outweigh the good for sure.. I met some good friends in medical school I really did.. I only had 3 good friends in med school but tons of friends outside of school. Just be prepared for a lot of passive aggressiveness.. and medical school is mild compared to when you get up on the floors and train in your clinical years and residency..

 

[humuhumu]

whats up humuhumu


UMM good question and a question most premeds should ask.

I was as enthusiastic as you before i started.

I knew I went wrong probably the first 6 months. Medical education is an antagonistic process. Made to be tricky, deceiving in the way they ask questions and stuff. Nothing is straight forward. everything is underhanded. Remember as an undergraduate after a test you said man that test asked nothing that i studied for. well thats all the exams in medical school .The professors were mostly like that as well. Just not very encouraging. and when people fail out (which they do) they are made to feel that it was a character flaw on their part when in part its the system. I almost envy the people who realized in the 1st and 2nd years that this wasnt for them...... and not all of them failed out... they left on their own accord.

You realize that all the hard work is for not...... there is no recognition.. nobody gives a crap that you havent eaten in 9 hours or you havent slept in days studying.. you just get **** on and **** on and **** on.. by everyone.. They do it because they can and they will.

It wasnt all bad times but the bad outweigh the good for sure.. I met some good friends in medical school I really did.. I only had 3 good friends in med school but tons of friends outside of school. Just be prepared for a lot of passive aggressiveness.. and medical school is mild compared to when you get up on the floors and train in your clinical years and residency..

Thank you for your reply. Do you think your experience is typical at your school? What about other schools? Were there any red flags during the interviewing process, e.g., students at your school who told you, "Dude, don't do it" and you ignored them? It's sooo easy to put the blinders on when you're pursuing a dream... I'm trying to keep my eyes wide open....

 

[JKnox49]

I would respond first to your question in saying that the during the course of medical school many people will feel like they made a mistake and many were very close to quitting. It's merely a response to stress and it passes, but everyone will have the realization at some point that they could be doing something else and getting alot more time off, more sleep, less stress, and more money. Many others, however, are not bothered by that fact, never regretted our decision, and loved every minute of it no matter how painful it may be.
I would also say that not all schools are as described by the previous poster. Some schools are very concientious toward the needs of the students and they try and get everybody through all four years (even if it takes them 5 or 6 years to finish). So I would suggest to talk to the students when you interview and see what they think. It may be hard to differentiate which schools **** on their students as Justin4563 put it and which prefer to help but its worth asking. Many students in the former schools might think all med schools are like their own but those in the more helpful schools are happy to tell you about it (as i'm doing right now).
I hope this helps, let me know if there is anything else I can answer for you.

 

[Justin4563]

humuhumu

its like that everywhere.. maybe a slight variation of the same theme......... check around

 

[LADoc00]

It completely depends on what you do.

Anyone in primary care who couldve got into fields like radiology or derm of course IS gonna regret it. Regret it and cry in the van they live in down by the river.

 

[fourthyearmed]

humuhumu

its like that everywhere.. maybe a slight variation of the same theme......... check around

My school is nothing like you describe Justin4563. Sorry you had a bad experience but please don't tell people that every school is like that.

 

[EMApplicant]

Most med schools will bend over backwards to help students that are struggling.

 

[GasEmDee]

My school is nothing like you describe Justin4563. Sorry you had a bad experience but please don't tell people that every school is like that.

I had a different experience than that of Justin4563. I personally felt VERY well supported by my school.

 

[DrKnowItAll]

Many med schools lend support to the students who are struggling, but they also look down on them. The medical profession is very unforgiving and med school is no exception. The reason med schools help out struggling students is beacuse they don't want to mess up their ranking/passing rates on the board exams. Otherwise, if you are having trouble, you are branded as a loser for life. You would have to endure great pains just to pass your exams and maybe secure an IM/FP residency spot in the company of other desperate med school grads, including depressed and ailienated foreign grads.

If you do well and you're lucky, you can place yourself on the path to success after med school by pursuing one of the ROADE specialties (Radiology, Optho, Anesthesiology, Derm, EM/ENT). Otherwise, brace yourself for a lifetime of being overworked, underpaid, and with no social life or regard for the finer things in life.

 

[JKnox49]

We have some seriously bitter people on this site. As I posted before, try to find out which schools these are and try to avoid them. Not all schools look down on students who do poorly and although most people don't go into medical school expecting to be at the bottom of their class it is nice to know that if you were to fall into that category that you would be supported fully.

 

[doc05]

We have some seriously bitter people on this site. As I posted before, try to find out which schools these are and try to avoid them. Not all schools look down on students who do poorly and although most people don't go into medical school expecting to be at the bottom of their class it is nice to know that if you were to fall into that category that you would be supported fully.

No, DrKnowItAll is actually right. Yes, they will help you. They don't want to do anything to tarnish their own reputations. But they will look down upon you. And you may very well be treated like a "second-class" student.

Don't delude yourself into thinking that medschools, or by extension physicians, are as kind as they ought to be. They are largely a self-righteous bunch of egomaniacs who remind themselves daily that they are "better" than the next guy. They create "honor societies" like AOA which don't accomplish anything except boost the egos of members. They discriminate against IMG's in residency applications.

Yes, they will go to bat for you; but only if you play the game.

 

[sacrament]

...where did you go wrong? When did you realize that going to med school was a huge mistake? When you were applying to med schools, is there ANYTHING that would have dissuaded you from your chosen path?

Like most premeds, I'm convinced that a career in medicine is a great fit for me, and it's hard to imagine becoming so disillusioned that I would regret ever pursuing it. You were probably in a similar place not too long ago. What happened?

Some of the most unhappy people I know in medical school were the most gung-ho and passionate coming into it, while those of us who were kinda ambivalent from the beginning may be sort of displeased but aren't totally crushed by our experiences. I have only my own observations to relate, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if there was a statistically significant inverse correlation between "initial passion" and "later regrets."

(There will always be those people who wanted to be a doctor since they were five and now that they're here, they're utterly satisfied and happy as clams. I don't personally know anybody like this, but I'm sure they are out there.)

 

[sacrament]

Everybody on this thread is concentrating on the "struggling students" and whether or not their med school supports them... as a student who is far from struggling, this is the least of my own concerns. Yeah, tests suck, yeah, the med student is the lowest form of life in the hospital. Old news. How about: the medical system SUCKS, the majority of your patients will not respect you, every single move you make to open to reinterpretation and possible litigation, the imbalance between working hours, debt, and compensation is ever widening, there is so much paperwork that your hand aches from writing at the end of the day... Etc. This is why the super-passionate, idealistic med student gets burned--it's so much less about "helping people" than you ever could have imagined. As somebody who isn't very invested in "helping people", I'm not painfully disillusioned, I'm just constantly sleepy.
On television or in movies you sometimes hear a "doctor" say something like, "Yeah, it's hard work and it's been a long road and I don't get much sleep, but when I am able to help out a little girl like that, it just makes it all worth it!" I've never heard a real doctor ever say anything like that.

 

[LADoc00]

Its wierd for me I was the model undergrad did research, did well in classes, got great LORs, got interviews to everyplace I applied. I went to a top med school, then at some point along the way I really realized how long and draining the journery would really be. How family and friends would be in the back seat for a long time. I began resenting everything about medicine, which continued into my residency, everyone telling me how lucky and bright I was but it didnt matter because it was all so hollow and superficial. Im still waiting to completely pull out of it and be happy for once.

 

[Leukocyte]

Some of the most unhappy people I know in medical school were the most gung-ho and passionate coming into it, while those of us who were kinda ambivalent from the beginning may be sort of displeased but aren't totally crushed by our experiences. I have only my own observations to relate, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if there was a statistically significant inverse correlation between "initial passion" and "later regrets."

Very very True.

 

[FMbound]

Many med schools lend support to the students who are struggling, but they also look down on them. The medical profession is very unforgiving and med school is no exception. The reason med schools help out struggling students is beacuse they don't want to mess up their ranking/passing rates on the board exams. Otherwise, if you are having trouble, you are branded as a loser for life. You would have to endure great pains just to pass your exams and maybe secure an IM/FP residency spot in the company of other desperate med school grads, including depressed and ailienated foreign grads.

How true. And don't piss off the school's administration otherwise you are screwed.

 

[cloudnine]

It completely depends on what you do.

Anyone in primary care who couldve got into fields like radiology or derm of course IS gonna regret it. Regret it and cry in the van they live in down by the river.

Where did you go to Med School?

And you will find people like you described in every field and profession, until you have more autonomy and do not need to take their xx@#$! Which can be done in all fields of medicine if you are smart and have a Biz mind as well!

 

[Leukocyte]

What I also hate about medical school, medical students, and medicine in general, is the continuous competition. Many times you have to be selfish to shine and succeed in medical school and residency....AND I HATE THAT. 😡 There is NO HARMONY in medicine (especially, clinical medicine/peds, surgery, ob/gyn)

Man, my blood is boilling. 😡 😡 😡

If I ever become an attending, and notice a medical student or resident subotaging his peer....I will eat him/her ALIVE. 😡 😡 😡

 

[Gauss]

...where did you go wrong? When did you realize that going to med school was a huge mistake? When you were applying to med schools, is there ANYTHING that would have dissuaded you from your chosen path?

Like most premeds, I'm convinced that a career in medicine is a great fit for me, and it's hard to imagine becoming so disillusioned that I would regret ever pursuing it. You were probably in a similar place not too long ago. What happened?

You'd have to be incredibly naive to think that everything will work out as you want it to 4, 8, 10 years down the road. While striving towards your dreams is always noble and worthwhile, be realistic. Life happens, and usually that involves some major hurdles or even tragedies. Some choose other fields to accomodate these issues, others feel medicine is not right for them. Simply feeling fed up and out of place is probably not the most common reason for regretting this decision.

 

[NinerNiner999]

Medicine, despite being the competitive profession it has become, remains perhaps the greatest equalizer in the professional arena. Everyone has difficulty at some point in their career, and to truly be happy in this field one must acknowledge this before starting medical school. Being a physician no longer has the presitge or placement atop the societal pedestal that it once did and, in fact, perhaps the "golden age" of medicine has passed. The road is long and arduous, and many sacrifices must be made along the way to earn the letters "M.D." behind your name. Most of the time, these are not sacrifices that will "make you a better doctor," as some will allude to, but they are choices that will leave many things in life by the wayside, such as your friends, family, husband, wife, children, and economic stability.

I think we all entered this field driven by our competitive nature, to see how far we could go, to show our friends and family that we could succeed, and to live up to a common idealistic vision that helping people was noble and we would be exhalted for having such a career. Eventually, the reality hits that your friends don't call you anymore because they got tired of trying to talk to you while you were studying or on call, your family continues to praise you, but they can never really do it personally because you've missed Thanksgiving and Christmas for the past three years in a row. Your spouse begins to resent you because he or she is home alone - again - while you pursue your "passion."

Don't get me wrong, I am NOT one of the bitter ones out there who "made a mistake." I took a challenge and I took an oath, and to that end, I am still the same Idealistic fool I was six years ago when I entered medical school. The real challenge of medicine is not to make great grades or score high on exams or land the residency of your dreams. The real challenge of being a physician is incorporating all of these things into the person you were BEFORE medical school, and not get entangled with your career as an all-consuming entity. Don't let the process change who you are, adopt the process into your life and learn a career - don't become a doctor. You will go as far as you want to go, and the decisions you make along the way will only be bad ones if you decide against the person you are. There will be very difficult times ahead, and very rewarding ones as well. Only you will know if you are the kind of person who will make everything you want happen.

 

[turtle md]

Medicine, despite being the competitive profession is has become, remains perhaps the greatest equalizer in the professional arena. Everyone has difficulty at some point in their career, and to truly be happy in this field one must acknowledge this before starting medical school. Being a physician no longer has the presitge or placement atop the societal pedestal that it once did and, in fact, perhaps the "golden age" of medicine has passed. The road is long and arduous, and many sacrifices must be made along the way to earn the letters "M.D." behind your name. Most of the time, these are not sacrifices that will "make you a better doctor," as some will allude to, but they are choices that will leave many things in life by the wayside, such as your friends, family, husband, wife, children, and economic stability.

I think we all entered this field driven by our competitive nature, to see how far we could go, to show our friends and family that we could succeed, and to live up to a common idealistic vision that helping people was noble and we would be exhalted for having such a career. Eventually, the reality hits that your friends don't call you anymore because they got tired of trying to talk to you while you were studying or on call, your family continues to praise you, but they can never really do it personally because you've missed Thanksgiving and Christmas for the past three years in a row. Your spouse beings to resent you because he or she is home alone - again - while you pursue your "passion."

Don't get me wrong, I am NOT one of the bitter ones out there who "made a mistake." I took a challenge and I took an oath, and to that end, I am still the same Idealistic fool I was six years ago when I entered medical school. The real challenge of medicine is not to make great grades or score high on exams or land the residency of your dreams. The real challenge of being a physician is incorporating all of these things into the person you were BEFORE medical school, and not get entangled with your career as an all-consuming entity. Don't let the process change who you are, adopt the process into your life and learn a career - don't become a doctor. You will go as far as you want to go, and the decisions you make along the way will only be bad ones if you decide against the person you are. There will be very difficult times ahead, and very rewarding ones as well. Only you will know if you are the kind of person who will make everything you want happen.

What a nice quote! I think it depends on the person, and the choices they make. An unhappy person will probably not be happy in whatever he or she does. I enjoyed med school and look forward to the challenges of the future. If you want to study medicine, then don't let a few sour people ruin your idea. If you quit before you even start, how will that make you feel later?

 

[Justin4563]

Lot of mis information here..

fourth year med.. every school is the same unless you go to one of the carribean schools.. T hey all have their same agenda... I cant wait until the applications start to plummet and they cant fill their classes thats when things will get better for med students.. Because there is absolutely no reason for the constant hazing from day one.. ( and I am an attending now)

Yeah there are tons of problems with the medical system including non compliant patients and lack of respect by everyone but I can accept that and live with that.. I cant accept and live with my fellow colleagues screwing me every chance they get especially financially...

and it is correct physicians will invent stuff to make themselves look better..
Like AOA>. who really gives a crap about A0A.. I dont ask my doctor if he was AOA.. There are many other examples..

 

[LadyJubilee8_18]

Lot of mis information here..

fourth year med.. every school is the same unless you go to one of the carribean schools.. T hey all have their same agenda... I cant wait until the applications start to plummet and they cant fill their classes thats when things will get better for med students.. Because there is absolutely no reason for the constant hazing from day one.. ( and I am an attending now)

Yeah there are tons of problems with the medical system including non compliant patients and lack of respect by everyone but I can accept that and live with that.. I cant accept and live with my fellow colleagues screwing me every chance they get especially financially...

and it is correct physicians will invent stuff to make themselves look better..
Like AOA>. who really gives a crap about A0A.. I dont ask my doctor if he was AOA.. There are many other examples..

How can people screw you over financially? and what sort of hazing goes on? I didn't sign up for all this (I'm about to apply in June)

 

[doc05]

How can people screw you over financially?

I suspect he's alluding to all the turf wars that can may life as an attending awful.

and what sort of hazing goes on?

being generally treated like crap by attendings, senior residents, and even ancillary staff.

 

[DrKnowItAll]

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but medicine is still a great field in the US if you are in one of the ROADE specialties (Radiology, Optho, Anesthesiology, Derm, ER/ENT). Everything else is crap, particularly IM.

The work that one puts into being a cardiologist, for example, has a much lower yield of income and global effect than, say, the same amount of effort put into going up the ranks in I-banking. I don't even want to hear about doctors saving lives and all that BS since modern economic and social analysts are actually begining to see more value in invesment bankers than doctors in terms of improving the quality of life in the general population by channelling capital through avenues that make people better off in one way or another. Politicians know this too, and that's part of the reason reinbursements for physicians are dropping while finacial support for pharma and biotech companies are at an all-time high and rising. Don't get me wrong, we'll always need doctors. We'll always need foot soldiers.

The golden age of the medical profession in most developed countries is over. We are now living in a world of economic incentives and service distribution, none of which are in the realm of the lonely doctor's expertise.

Of course, you could always go somewhere in Africa, roll up your sleaves, and save lives by administering vaccines and antibiotics. They need emergent appendectomies and c-sections too.

 

[FMbound]

How can people screw you over financially? and what sort of hazing goes on? I didn't sign up for all this (I'm about to apply in June)

The following might be interesting to you: http://www.memag.com/memag/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=111375

 

[middledoc]

Like most things, this whole topic lies in the gray zone

Justin is right to some degree and so is the EM doc @ hopkins.

There's not as much prestige in a sense that 50% of patients do not treat you with respect. This is especially true in the ED. But you also have to understand that they've been waiting 10 hours and I have been consulted for a gastroenteritis (about to go home) when the rigid guarding points to perf'd PUD. Can't blame the pts when they complain that some MD's don't know jack. One can then argue that it's the admin's fault for pressuring the doc's on increased admissions, decreased HD's. This increases errors due to decreased time per patient. But who is put at fault for this: the MD. This puts pressure on most Docs I know (err all docs I know) and thus the constant back stabbing and rolling **** down hill just to clear your name. I'm not so sure abt how it was 50 years to 30 years ago, but from asking the old docs about "when the giants use to roam," there seemed to be more loyalty among doctors. Now it seems the profession is somewhat losing its strong ties between its practioners. As a resident, you will feel this pressure in the form of:

1) attending selling you out
2) Blame casting for clinical decisons that the attending made
3) Teaching that is somewhat sparse and inconsistent.

Of course this is not true for everyone.

Although patients/outside people don't respect you, that doesn't mean that medicine (especially surgery, j/k) is not prestigious. I am not going to give you the same routine that everyone gives: "it's about helping people." I'll give you a twist and some of you will be offended by it. It's the fact that you CAN give life to someone: ie emergent cricothy, place ET swiftly and calmly, emerg open thorac (young pts with small, identifiable PA injuries=good survival, old pts=forget about it), swan easily (not 10 minutes like most medicine guys, j/k, oh yeah no arg abt how swan's actually increase mortality), pacer swan, and most importantly stabilize, resuscitate, with a full operative plan/team and later on critical care plan/team awaiting. Here's the catcher that I've picked up: refusal to treat is always an option. I can't speak much for medicine, but for surgeons, this is now an art. There are a few ways I know how to do this. I'm still learning. Go ahead guys, flame away. Oh yeah, I believe some states are now making each attending's pt mortalities public. What does that do? Each MD wants a health pt now. Pt has an SMA embolus? No surgeon will come in, you will have to call the young attending who will practice with the chief and watch the natural history of a leaking anastamosis.

Abt the other specialties: rads, optho, sports med, anesth. I think abt it everyday, switching etc. It's basically too late for me and I don't want to go through the trouble. It's a great lifestyle, but not speaking from my own experience, only through others, these specialties have there own probs too. Everyone encringes on each others turf whether it be a specialty also specializing in eyes or the internet providing high speed CT image transfers. Most importantly, reinbursements are cut across the board.

Sorry for my long opinion, but back to the original question: Do it again? Yes and no. Yes, because I think it's an awesome skill, purely a personal, selfish reason and with a tiny bit more skill and knowing how to the "work the system" can wield quite an amount of political and CLINICAL power/prowess. No, because dammit, I sure slept less than I did as a teenager.

The good news is that just like surgery, every specialty can find a way to use the system to their advantage. You will find that every career is hard. The best thing about medicine is that NOTHING is set in stone. Believe it or not people, the healthcare system is in flux, see it as a glass half full or half empty.

 

[gherelin]

I agree with the poster who suggested those who enter with the most idealistic aims are likely to be the most disillusioned and therefore bitter. If you think medicine is a business and you went in as a rational career choice and not truly out of humanitarian or scientific idealism, you're likely to be tired and cranky occasionally during residency, but overall fine. If you went in to help people (and let's face it, you could have been a social worker or a missionary in that case), then you are likely to be amazed and sometimes horrified by what is beyond the curtain. But, once you're in, unless you're independently wealthy, you're in... because of the loans. Even after all you witness, (everything already mentioned-poor teaching, poor systemsunethical behavior by students and attendings, unbelievably vulgar expressions of greed, competition, grade scrounging, sucking up, and lack of compassion for patients, as well as lack of appreciation from many patients who somehow end up loving the least compassionate or most incompetent docs the most), even after all that, sometimes you can surround yourself with a little oasis of idealism, especially in say, family medicine or peds, or a non-clinical specialty I would guess, but it is very hard. And, which is what I am hoping for myself, once you are out, if you stay away from academic medical centers, you can try to reclaim your lost inspiration and make the medical life you initially dreamed about.

 

[GoPistons]

agree with everyone... most of medicine is a bunch of BS... ungrateful patients, nobody taking the medicines you prescribed, too much paperwork, too much debt, nurses not doing their job, med students throating each other, egos out of this world, etc. etc.

I could go on and on and on... about it...

this is why I chose Radiology residency... it was my only outlet out of the madness and at least I still could be somewhat of a doc...

 

[Leukocyte]

agree with everyone... most of medicine is a bunch of BS... ungrateful patients, nobody taking the medicines you prescribed, too much paperwork, too much debt, nurses not doing their job, med students throating each other, egos out of this world, etc. etc.

I could go on and on and on... about it...

this is why I chose Radiology residency... it was my only outlet out of the madness and at least I still could be somewhat of a doc...

I second that.

Medicine is like a Fish market. If you like being or working in a fish market, then medicine is for you.

 

[dr_almondjoy_do]

...where did you go wrong? When did you realize that going to med school was a huge mistake? When you were applying to med schools, is there ANYTHING that would have dissuaded you from your chosen path?

Like most premeds, I'm convinced that a career in medicine is a great fit for me, and it's hard to imagine becoming so disillusioned that I would regret ever pursuing it. You were probably in a similar place not too long ago. What happened?

I am going to attempt to bring this back to focus. My happiest time in med school was the summer before I started. I conquered college, and I was ready for the next level, acceptance letter in hand. I was so happy that I was going to be a doctor....

It all went down hill during first year, knee deep into class work, more reading than I EVER imagined, and less sleep than I cared for. Things didn't get better until the last day of the boards at the end of second year. It was a total culture shock for me to have to study and not ace every exam FOR TWO YEARS STRAIGHT....

Now I can honestly say that had I known that I prefered primary care, and that I wanted more family time, I would have chosen something else. There is no better joy for me than to help sick people. I can do that all day. But I did'nt have to wait 6 years to know that.

And money, you can make money in so many other ways. And working for money is not the easiest or fastest way to do it.

But now that the first two years are over, and the third year is mostly over, I finally feel like I'm doing what I want to do. As for money, I'm reading up on investments and watching "The Apprentice" for advice on how to get that. aside from side jobs here and there, I have been unemployed since 2002, and that is not changing until august 2006 when PGY1 money comes in. And to be looking forward to that is sad.

So I guess you will go through the bad times, but make sure that it's what you want. If two years of lost time is good enough for you, then go for it. By then you will learn how to sleep less, be around less, and work more. But if it's not, then find something else to do.

 

[14022]

When I was young, I remember hearing a quote...life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react. Over and over I have found this to be true. You see a lot of personalities on SDN. Being anonymous, people's true personalities tend to shine through. I think the biggest reason people regret their decision is because of two reasons...

(1) Someone or something created a picture of medicine of being glorious and rewarding in all of its aspects.

(2) They let themselves believe that by going into medicine they were entitled to something that the average American was not.

A lot of medical students tend to think that by being smart and multi-talented, they are better than most people. By being born smart and having wealthy parents to send them to good schools, they somehow earned some confabulated right to a life of rewards without putting in the work or effort. They think their medical school should bend over backwards for them. By committing to the health of another human being, they are entitled to huge incomes and houses and fancy cars and vacations and early retirement. I dont understand why people think like this. Firefighters literally risk their lives every day for people and make a third of what the LOWEST paid doctors make. They dont have online chat rooms were they sit around and complain about how much the career sucks. They do it because it is the decision they made with their life. If you are unhappy with your life, do something about it. Instead of sitting online and B*tching about it all day, go out anfly a kite or do something else that makes you happy.

When we applied for college as pre-meds, residents were working 120-150 hours per week. Doctor's were getting sued. HMO's were running the show. You knew it then. Why now all of a sudden do people complain about these things? Things are getting better. Resident work hours are reduced. Malpractice reform is occurring in several states.

Every other field has some of the same problems people complain about every day. Paperwork, seniority, income. Doctor's do not have to worry about a lot of things other fields have to. People in business oriented fields like real estate and banking take a hit every time the economy takes a hit. People in coommercial fields and telecommunications worry about downsizing and merging and have very little job security. People in education will see their income barely increase over the course of their careers.

Doctor's incomes may not be what it used to be, but the lowest paid doctor is well above the average American's. You will never be without health insurance and other benefits. There will never be a shortage of doctors. You will always have a job. You can take your skills anywhere in the world. Medicine has rewards that millions of American's dream about. And to earn those rewards, there are obstacles over which to jump. Anything worth having is worth working for. There is no such thing as a free meal. So to all of you that are unhappy, I apologize that someone let you become so self-absorbed and disillusioned that now you regret having to work and deal with the cruel reality that the magical wonderful world of medicine that you thought you were going into is full of challenges and difficulties that are going to require some optimism and perseverence. I feel really bad for you that your dreams of owning an S-Class Mercedes have been crushed because the financial restraints of medicine will limit you the the C-Class Mercedes. That was sarcasm. What I really feel bad for is that because of all of the hard work and perseverence that you have realized that medicine requires has convinced you that contributing to the quality of life of another human is no longer a noble task.

 

[oldbearprofessor]

if you stay away from academic medical centers, you can try to reclaim your lost inspiration and make the medical life you initially dreamed about.

Okay, as always, I find such threads fascinating. My opinion, based on the title of the thread, obviously isn't what is sought here, but, I must ask what it is about academic medical centers you find to be less inspirational than other areas in which medical care is given? Specifically, I think you are implying (please correct me if I'm wrong), that the doctors in academic medicine are, in some way, less inspiring models as physicians than those who are in private practice away from academic centers. The way you said it implies that it is the academic setting itself that is the problem. I'm game, what is it about the academic setting, from your personal experience, relative to the private, non-academic setting, that leads to "non-inspirational" medicine in one setting and inspirational medicine in the other? Does this persepective include pediatrics?

I am genuinely interested in what experiences you have in BOTH settings, for this comparison, especially as related to pediatrics.

thanks for your insight. I would like to improve the way students and residents see academia and need to understand the experiences that led to your post.

OBP

 

[Furrball2]

I enjoyed medical school. My worst day in medical school was exponentially better than an average day in graduate school. As a medical student I would joke that I was the lowest form of life; I think there is still an active debate as to whether or not graduate students are considered to be autonomous forms of life.

If you pay attention, do what you are supposed to do, and be where you are supposed to be medical school is not all that hard. Could I have worked harder? Yes. Did I need to? No. I ended up matching at a top 10 IM program -- exactly where I wanted to be.

There is a lot of whining and a sense of entitlement around here at times.

 

[DrKnowItAll]

I enjoyed medical school. My worst day in medical school was exponentially better than an average day in graduate school. As a medical student I would joke that I was the lowest form of life; I think there is still an active debate as to whether or not graduate students are considered to be autonomous forms of life.

If you pay attention, do what you are supposed to do, and be where you are supposed to be medical school is not all that hard. Could I have worked harder? Yes. Did I need to? No. I ended up matching at a top 10 IM program -- exactly where I wanted to be.

There is a lot of whining and a sense of entitlement around here at times.

Nobody said med school is hard. In fact, I know so many people who ended up in med school because they failed at other jobs or lacked the creativity to do anything else. The medical profession is full of such people. I found med school very uninspiring and relatively easy.

What is being said here is that for many on this forum, becoming a doctor was not worth it, and in so many ways it is not.

There are only a handful of people in our prfession who are truly helping humanity with their skills and mind. These are the physician-scientists, the skillful surgeons, and the incredible talents that are developing amazingly creative therapeutics in the biotech and pharmaceutical industries.

The rest of us are just following algorithms and protocols. This is what makes the profession a big disappointment. For most people it becomes very mechanical and routine. The US healthcare system cultivates two distinct cadre of physicians: foot soldiers and top academicians.

 

[Furrball2]

What is being said here is that for many on this forum, becoming a doctor was not worth it, and in so many ways it is not.

Worth it / not worth it? Ehh.... Bottom line is I have finally found that occupation where I truly have difficulty seeing myself doing something else: saving lives and stomping out disease vs. stomping out lives and saving disease.

If money was my soul motivator I would have become a patent attourney. I would have lots of paper work, stress, annoying co-workers, and be forced to work with aspects of an industry that I have problems with. (My background is biochem/biohys so I would have done molecular bio / pharma) The stressors are similar to what I will have to deal with as a physician but it is something I like and want to do. Also before grad school I was very ill for 2.5 years so I didn't exactly get into medicine with my eyes closed.

I think medicine is what it always has been; for an interesting read try "For the Greatest Benefit of Mankind," by Porter. IMHO a lot of the disillusionment comes from people who get into medicine with a large amount of transference of their own mental image of what medicine should be. Then low and behold reality smacks them upside the head. Medicine is a job in an imperfect world. If we are lucky we make our patients lives a little better, the unlucky ones we flog and iatrogenize them to death.

 

[gherelin]

Okay, as always, I find such threads fascinating. My opinion, based on the title of the thread, obviously isn't what is sought here, but, I must ask what it is about academic medical centers you find to be less inspirational than other areas in which medical care is given? Specifically, I think you are implying (please correct me if I'm wrong), that the doctors in academic medicine are, in some way, less inspiring models as physicians than those who are in private practice away from academic centers. The way you said it implies that it is the academic setting itself that is the problem. I'm game, what is it about the academic setting, from your personal experience, relative to the private, non-academic setting, that leads to "non-inspirational" medicine in one setting and inspirational medicine in the other? Does this persepective include pediatrics?

I am genuinely interested in what experiences you have in BOTH settings, for this comparison, especially as related to pediatrics.

thanks for your insight. I would like to improve the way students and residents see academia and need to understand the experiences that led to your post.

OBP

Hi OBP:

My experience is as a non-traditional coming out of 10+ years community non-profit work wanting to be able to do more to help people through medicine, and yes, some purely selfish aims like more intellectual challenges and making more money than the $30,000 I was making at the top of my game as a community service worker. Now, as a 3rd year resident, I have accumulated hundreds (thousands?) of individual experiences seeing, for example, one lauded faculty member who refers to patients publicly as "dirt bags","a program director who refers to the q-sign by sticking out her tongue and cocking her head in grotesque imitation of patients who have tragically suffered brain damage, OB residents who refer to pregnant woman casually as "whales," and everyone who laughs and jokes at the expense of patients who are obese, etc., etc., etc. At the same time, what is often valued, and will catapult you to being a chief resident, is a focus on "productivity," being a "warrior," being able to sleep the least, be cavalier about doing procedures you are poorly trained for, and figuring out how to make the most possible amount of money. I'll stop now because I'm sure I'm pissing people off and I really do not mean any of this as a personal attack, although I know from past experience some will take it as such and become emotional. But you asked, so I wanted to respond. For peds, I have only my pedi rotations -- 4 altogether, to judge, and while I liked some of them better-some just substituted financial greed for desire for academic prestige.
Cheers.

 

[14022]

Hi OBP:

My experience is as a non-traditional coming out of 10+ years community non-profit work wanting to be able to do more to help people through medicine, and yes, some purely selfish aims like more intellectual challenges and making more money than the $30,000 I was making at the top of my game as a community service worker. Now, as a 3rd year resident, I have accumulated hundreds (thousands?) of individual experiences seeing, for example, one lauded faculty member who refers to patients publicly as "dirt bags","a program director who refers to the q-sign by sticking out her tongue and cocking her head in grotesque imitation of patients who have tragically suffered brain damage, OB residents who refer to pregnant woman casually as "whales," and everyone who laughs and jokes at the expense of patients who are obese, etc., etc., etc. At the same time, what is often valued, and will catapult you to being a chief resident, is a focus on "productivity," being a "warrior," being able to sleep the least, be cavalier about doing procedures you are poorly trained for, and figuring out how to make the most possible amount of money. I'll stop now because I'm sure I'm pissing people off and I really do not mean any of this as a personal attack, although I know from past experience some will take it as such and become emotional. But you asked, so I wanted to respond. For peds, I have only my pedi rotations -- 4 altogether, to judge, and while I liked some of them better-some just substituted financial greed for desire for academic prestige.
Cheers.

So do you actually have any experience with community MEDICINE. You said you have experience with community service work, but that is not community medicine.

 

[MD'05]

Hi OBP:

My experience is as a non-traditional coming out of 10+ years community non-profit work wanting to be able to do more to help people through medicine, and yes, some purely selfish aims like more intellectual challenges and making more money than the $30,000 I was making at the top of my game as a community service worker. Now, as a 3rd year resident, I have accumulated hundreds (thousands?) of individual experiences seeing, for example, one lauded faculty member who refers to patients publicly as "dirt bags","a program director who refers to the q-sign by sticking out her tongue and cocking her head in grotesque imitation of patients who have tragically suffered brain damage, OB residents who refer to pregnant woman casually as "whales," and everyone who laughs and jokes at the expense of patients who are obese, etc., etc., etc. At the same time, what is often valued, and will catapult you to being a chief resident, is a focus on "productivity," being a "warrior," being able to sleep the least, be cavalier about doing procedures you are poorly trained for, and figuring out how to make the most possible amount of money. I'll stop now because I'm sure I'm pissing people off and I really do not mean any of this as a personal attack, although I know from past experience some will take it as such and become emotional. But you asked, so I wanted to respond. For peds, I have only my pedi rotations -- 4 altogether, to judge, and while I liked some of them better-some just substituted financial greed for desire for academic prestige.
Cheers.

Sorry to hear of your experience as a resident. I hope I don't have a similar experience. Usually no one around me makes disparaging comments about patients. I don't like it.

Needless to say I probably will not make chief resident if it is a requirement to treat patients like ****.

 

[oldbearprofessor]

Hi OBP:

My experience is as a non-traditional coming out of 10+ years community non-profit work wanting to be able to do more to help people through medicine, and yes, some purely selfish aims like more intellectual challenges and making more money than the $30,000 I was making at the top of my game as a community service worker. Now, as a 3rd year resident, I have accumulated hundreds (thousands?) of individual experiences seeing, for example, one lauded faculty member who refers to patients publicly as "dirt bags","a program director who refers to the q-sign by sticking out her tongue and cocking her head in grotesque imitation of patients who have tragically suffered brain damage, OB residents who refer to pregnant woman casually as "whales," and everyone who laughs and jokes at the expense of patients who are obese, etc., etc., etc. At the same time, what is often valued, and will catapult you to being a chief resident, is a focus on "productivity," being a "warrior," being able to sleep the least, be cavalier about doing procedures you are poorly trained for, and figuring out how to make the most possible amount of money. I'll stop now because I'm sure I'm pissing people off and I really do not mean any of this as a personal attack, although I know from past experience some will take it as such and become emotional. But you asked, so I wanted to respond. For peds, I have only my pedi rotations -- 4 altogether, to judge, and while I liked some of them better-some just substituted financial greed for desire for academic prestige.
Cheers.

Thanks for the response. I'll try to respond quickly as I am in the middle of grant-writing season. What I think I'm reading is your displeasure with academics in three areas. Let me try to get them clarified and comment and then you can correct me or add more info.

1. Academic attendings don't respect patients.
2. Academic attendings don't communicate well with patients
3. Academic attendings are more interested in their own prestige than inspiring those around them.

In each case, the implication is that private attendings, presumably privates doing the same fields to be comparable in this description, do each of these things better.

I won't try to defend academics in these 3 areas, but I will comment from my experiences, especially based on pedi and to a lesser degree family-medicine faculty as this is your field.

Regarding #1 - well, this is always improper, and this topic is covered in detail in "House of God" and "Becoming a Doctor." I'm not convinced this is, especially in pediatrics, a major issue or that private attendings are better in this regard than academic ones. Regardless, there is certainly no need to do this to be successful in academic pediatrics.

Regarding #2 - This one, although you didn't separate it out, is the one that is most commonly held against academic faculty in the clinical practice area. From my corner of the world, I've always felt it was a bum rap. When we do rounds in an academic medical center, we expect and must have much of the communication with families done via residents, fellows, and NNP's. This is how they learn those skills. Although I have heard many times about how we don't talk to families like private docs do, I remain, from my experience, unconvinced this is true at all! Certainly, many of my colleagues are outstanding in the way they deal with families.

Regarding #3 - Now, here we have the crux of the matter. Is academic medicine a place where faculty are looking out for themselves or trying to serve the greater community? I could discuss this one for a while, but I note that, again, from my corner of the world, both domestic and especially international efforts to provide health care to the underserved are centered in the medical schools. Some do this much more than others of course. But it is increasing in many places. Personally, I know that it would be inconceivable for me to spend the type of time I do traveling internationally doing clinical education at overseas hospitals if it wasn't for the freedom of scheduling the academic world has given me.

Regarding the academics and the attitudes towards lack of sleep for residents and making money as the goal. Well, this is not part of anything I've ever seen in pediatrics, although I'm sure it exists "somewhere."

Thanks for your input - I appreciate the insights and the opportunity to discuss, not attack, in these debates. If medicine is to be improved, then these are worthwhile discussions.

Regards

OBP

 

[gherelin]

Hi OBP,
I appreciate your desire to attempt a courteous and civil discussion on an a very contentious issue. Many of my very good friends and relatives are PhD and/or MD academics and we talk often of these issues. Also, I am not so much contrasting private docs in private for profit practices as I was public health docs. Sometimes private for profit docs will treat their patients with great respect and empathy, at least to their face, because that's where their money comes from-as you can see if you've heard the private doc expression, "you eat what you kill." Some private docs of course really do feel respect and empathy as well. But I was talking about community health centers, migrant worker clinics, developmental centers, urban health centers etc. I may or may not be happy with what I find in the world of public health, but I'm hoping to find more fulfillment there.
Are you familiar with Michael Greger? He is a kindred spirit to me in many, though not all ways, e.g. some parts of his website seems to be shameless hucksterism. But I share many of his reactions to treatment of patients in academic medicine. Here is his website:
http://www.drgreger.org/writings.html and then the most relevant to our discussion section of his site is at
http://upalumni.org/medschool/.
Since I don't want to invite personal attacks by publicly posting my non-mainstream opinions, please feel free to PM any further thoughts.
Thanks.

 

[EasyRider]

When I was young, I remember hearing a quote...life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react. Over and over I have found this to be true. You see a lot of personalities on SDN. Being anonymous, people's true personalities tend to shine through. I think the biggest reason people regret their decision is because of two reasons...

(1) Someone or something created a picture of medicine of being glorious and rewarding in all of its aspects.

(2) They let themselves believe that by going into medicine they were entitled to something that the average American was not.

A lot of medical students tend to think that by being smart and multi-talented, they are better than most people. By being born smart and having wealthy parents to send them to good schools, they somehow earned some confabulated right to a life of rewards without putting in the work or effort. They think their medical school should bend over backwards for them. By committing to the health of another human being, they are entitled to huge incomes and houses and fancy cars and vacations and early retirement. I dont understand why people think like this. Firefighters literally risk their lives every day for people and make a third of what the LOWEST paid doctors make. They dont have online chat rooms were they sit around and complain about how much the career sucks. They do it because it is the decision they made with their life. If you are unhappy with your life, do something about it. Instead of sitting online and B*tching about it all day, go out anfly a kite or do something else that makes you happy.

When we applied for college as pre-meds, residents were working 120-150 hours per week. Doctor's were getting sued. HMO's were running the show. You knew it then. Why now all of a sudden do people complain about these things? Things are getting better. Resident work hours are reduced. Malpractice reform is occurring in several states.

Every other field has some of the same problems people complain about every day. Paperwork, seniority, income. Doctor's do not have to worry about a lot of things other fields have to. People in business oriented fields like real estate and banking take a hit every time the economy takes a hit. People in coommercial fields and telecommunications worry about downsizing and merging and have very little job security. People in education will see their income barely increase over the course of their careers.

Doctor's incomes may not be what it used to be, but the lowest paid doctor is well above the average American's. You will never be without health insurance and other benefits. There will never be a shortage of doctors. You will always have a job. You can take your skills anywhere in the world. Medicine has rewards that millions of American's dream about. And to earn those rewards, there are obstacles over which to jump. Anything worth having is worth working for. There is no such thing as a free meal. So to all of you that are unhappy, I apologize that someone let you become so self-absorbed and disillusioned that now you regret having to work and deal with the cruel reality that the magical wonderful world of medicine that you thought you were going into is full of challenges and difficulties that are going to require some optimism and perseverence. I feel really bad for you that your dreams of owning an S-Class Mercedes have been crushed because the financial restraints of medicine will limit you the the C-Class Mercedes. That was sarcasm. What I really feel bad for is that because of all of the hard work and perseverence that you have realized that medicine requires has convinced you that contributing to the quality of life of another human is no longer a noble task.

Good Insight 👍

 

[backontop]

to the op,

where did i go wrong?

- I guess it was when I applied. I thought that it would be a good thing to do with a bio major, yet i knew that i wouldn't mind some time off either. I applied to one school on a whim and somehow i got in. super excited, and I think just the thought of being a doctor kept me going during 1st yr.

when did you realize you had made a huge mistake??

- If i could pinpoint a time I would say that it was during my first 3rd yr rotation- ob/gyn. Clinical years are supposed to be the breath of fresh air after 1st and 2nd year, but for me the worst was ahead. I swear sooo many guys who go into ob are women haters and I had the pleasure of being around a lot of them who routinely would refer to patients as "this fat pig is getting a TAH/BSO, etc today..." There were only males in the room when this was going on of course, but still disturbing as a first clinical experience. Then I was pulling these 36hr shifts.... I like volunteer work but that's a little bit overboard to me. Also, this is sooo dangerous to patients. I can't even believe people debate this fact, but people rountinely do on this forum. Then, there was ruthless pimping. This is the most common form of hazing, and it involves incessant "quizzing" set up in a lose-lose format. The medical students quickly learn coping mechanisms to deal with a lot of this stuff. To mention a few in my arsenal used for the purpose of cat and mouse-like dodging of attendings and residents: "i have to go to the library to study for the shelf", "i went to a different c-section", "i didn't get the page", "i got the page but when I returned it no one answered", "the battery on my pager must be low", "my pager was accidently turned off", "my pager must have been on silent mode", "are you sure you paged me?? Let me make sure you have the right number", "i think someone stole my pager", "I was sick", "I had a meeting with the dean of student affairs", "I had to make up an exam", "remember that exam?? unfortunately i had to retake it", "i have personal issues, family issues", "i was there and I didn't see you", "i saw you but it was in the middle so I went to look for another case..."

coping mechanisms like these although clearly wrong and sociopathic allowed me to date throughout medical school, have time for family and friends, and generally kept me happy. Plus, when I used them, the hospital functioned more efficiently cause medical students only slow down the hospital. If you think you matter in patient care, you are deluded.

If when applying, would anything have dissuaded you?

-absolutely. if one doctor had sat me down and told me exactly what it entailed I would have been out. You see, I was extremely naive, even more so than most entering med students. I have zero doctors in my family/previous social networks. If one of them had sat me down and said," hey buddy, do you know that although you don't want to be a proctologist you are going to be doing rectals ad infinitum??" that might have done it. "or, do you know that you are going to be treated like an abused dog made to stand on ice with his eyelids propped open???"

I love to secretly laugh at the premed rejects cause they don't even know that it is most likely a blessing in disguise.

Well, so what do you do when you are in medical school and you don't want to be a doctor?? good question. For me, what kept me from throwing in the towel was a professor who kept reminding me that I am here to become an MD, not a doctor. For people who don't know the difference i am the difference. Also, the catch-22 is that it is impossible to know what it is like to be a doctor until you've tried it out (i.e. third yr), and then you are already too far in debt (what people refer to as the point of no return). So although i'm not a quitter, I do have a big debt. But I also have a big degree.
No education is wasted and I have certainly achieved my educational dreams. Now it's time for me.

My initial goal was to get employment using my medical knowledge without practicing medicine. This is very difficult believe it or not. I am currently making money doing something that does not involve medical knowledge. Although i wish to ultimately use my knowledge, my current work does not have an ounce of stress. My MD has guaranteed me a position whenever i want it, and if i fall on my face during the next few years, i always have that as a backup. not a bad plan B. some people say you should get residency out of the way, but I have met too many docs who wish they had their twenties back.

My professional goal: to change the system. I took an extensive diary during medical school and have researched the problems with the system in journals, books, magazine articles, etc. I have tons of free time so I have been working on a book. I would like to expose the public to the inhumane, dangerous treatment that goes on on a dialy basis in today's american medical system. I've talked with publishers, and the probability of a book getting published and making it big goes up significantly if you have an MD after your name.

once the system is changed, then of course i'll practice!


remember: if you do not see a light at the end of the tunnel, get out of the tunnel.

 

[humuhumu]

My professional goal: to change the system. I took an extensive diary during medical school and have researched the problems with the system in journals, books, magazine articles, etc. I have tons of free time so I have been working on a book. I would like to expose the public to the inhumane, dangerous treatment that goes on on a dialy basis in today's american medical system. I've talked with publishers, and the probability of a book getting published and making it big goes up significantly if you have an MD after your name.

Thank you for the detailed reply, and best wishes on your book. It's easy to become discouraged and skeptical about changing the system, but we have seen progress in recent years (80-hour limit) and as Margaret Mead said, "A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." I imagine that the key will be highlighting patient safety and how current abusive practices compromise the quality of care.

 

[HailToTheThielf]

Im about to make the biggest decision of my life. One that will lead me in two complete opposite directions. After reading this thread, my mind has been wondering clueless as what I really want to do. My father is a surgeon. I wanted to become a doctor because of my father and the person he is! I am applying to med schools as we speak! Im even applying to caribbean med schools. Im 26. Thing is I have a group of close friends since high school. We have been like brothers to each other. There are 4 of us. I am the only one of us that has graduated from college. All three dropped out and got into the bar business! They started about 3-4 yrs ago. Here we go, im going to try to say this without going crazy. As of now, 2 of the three are GM's and are making $150,000 and the other is making `$230,000 per yr. Paid off all of his school loans IN ONE MONTH! They are expanding and building and managing new bars (more than they can keep up with). They build a new one about every 6-8 months. So the money just keeps coming. My third friend started with them a little late, only about a yr ago and he is already making $70,000 yr. These guys are begging me to go into the business with them! They keep telling me that they are opening more bars than they have trusting people to run them so they can use me. Its horrible! These guys, no BS, work wed, thurs, sat and sun. Thats it!!!!! Since they are managers/owners, they usually get to the bar at about 8:00, bartend till about 11:00, then walk the floor and meet and talk to customers. Then close up, count the liquor and go home. They have boats and jet skies, and it seems like they are frickin LIVING THE LIFE! Going to vegas every other month, everything. The best thing is the work hrs, they just put in about 30-35 hrs a week in a bar with a bunch of college girls who look like they came straight from the playboy mansion. Here I am trying to really decide what I want, I read this thread and ****TTTTTTTTTT! I have always wanted to be a doctor because it is a very noble profession, good money, stability, and other reasons. But after reading this thread, remembering as a kid only seeing my father at 1:00 a.m and at 6:00a.m when i got up for school, Im starting to freak out. What if I do end up regretting it. To make things even easier, my friends want to eventually someday go into the casino business. Imagine the life! What do you guys think? You guys make it sound that the journey isn't worth it! This is weird because I dont think Ive ever heard an MD say that he regrets going that route. Yeah my father always told me that if he can do it again, he'd go into rads or FP because of the better less stressful life, but I dont think I ever heard him say that he regreted becoming a doctor. I was about to just jump into the caribbean this may! Now its like sh%%, you guys sound disappointed. And you guys are the only one that can tell me about it because you've been there! Im not going to BS for one second. Im not becoming a doctor to help people! Alot of people get on my frickin last nerves! Im becoming a doctor so that I can set an example for my kids, my younger brothers, make my parents proud, the competition, the money, the stability, and like my father and all his doctor friends always said, "you can have any woman you want when your a doc!" hell yeah! To prove to myself that I can tackle the toughest challenge. And last for when im older and I look back on life,I know I'll be proud for the help I gave. For the lifes I helped changed, or improved, even if it was just a little! If I REALLY wanted to help people, I would have joind the red cross!! Any advice. I dont know, just say something docs.

 

[NinerNiner999]

So, it sounds like you have to weight the pros and cons of medicine versus the service industry. Both could be considered a "Service" but clearly medicine is a more stable career choice. Opening bars is a gamble with each new opening and starting a casino (pardon the pun) is probably the most improbable gamble of your future options. Not to discount your friends, but the success rate of opening a *successful* casino that turns a profit is probably fairly low without an MBA or other knowledgeable partners. However, in the short term, assuming you don't get greedy or foolish with your newfound income, the investment potential of $150 per year for 5 years could buy you time to get out of the business all together if the casino plan falls through.

Not to harp on the already mentioned pros and cons of medicine as a career choice but, if you choose it, you can pretty much kiss your high school buddies goodbye for 7-8 years at a minimum, realistically 10-11 if you choose surgery. Then again, while the hangover subsides, the money becomes lost to poor wagers, and your friends no longer feel young enough to maintain the servic industry, you'll be secure with a $200k - $400k base salary for the rest of your life...

Whether its your patients or your businesses, they will both consume your time and energy and present you with situations where you would much rather "be doing something else." But in the end, there is no other career that allows you to fall back on so many other options...

 

[HailToTheThielf]

thanks ninerniner....thats all I needed to hear my friend. You just have influenced a big decision in my life! THANK YOU. good luck everyone, may the force be with you! I'll see you at the end of the road!

 

[Sanman]

While I'm not in med school, i did have a similar decision to make. I decided to pursue a doctorate in psychology instead of going into business with a friend in he computer science industry. He instead took a well paying job with a financial company. I have to say, you are a young guy. Who says you have to go to med school now? Why not try the bar business for a couple of years. If you don't like it you can always apply then. If you do hit it big, then great. Besides, you'll definitely get more women being a rich bar owner then poor and with your nose in a book. Also, the carribean is a very different experience from US med schoools. I had friends who had a lot of trouble adjusting and some who ended up dropping out. So, be prepared for those changes. By the way, depending on your specialty and the way doctor's salaries are going 200-400k seems rather high. I believe 100-250k is more accurate. Maybe I'm wrong about that though.

 

[backontop]

hail to theif,

your post was very interesting. You are picking medicine for all the reasons i did. I never said anything about liking to help people in my interview; i pressed that I loved how noble and respected a profession it was.

I wanted to add a few comments of mine about your post:

-you are very young. i have met several docs who say that it's cool and all but they wish they had their twenties back. Can you go to clubs when you are 40 after a surgical residency and pick up chicks?? well, you can, but it's not as easy. Your talks about partying, dating, money, free-time, etc. tell me that you should not apply right now.

-it doesn't "seem" like your friends are living the life, they are. Maybe you should join them. It seems like it would make you happy and earn you some money. People talk about how difficult it is to make great money in ANY field, so therefore you're better off with the security of being a doctor. i also have friends making tons of money, and the fact of the matter is that life is not fair. Should a daytrader make 200K a yr for working 35hrs/wk? No, but that's life. If that irks you, make sure you are on the right side of the unfairness. Also, all of my 6-figure friends have back up plans. Lots of jobs besides physicians have job security and none of my friends will ever be homeless.

-I truly feel that the best way to go into medical school is rich. You don't have to worry about struggling for 10 yrs, but more importantly you can pick a specialty that you really love without thinking about money. money + lifestyle drives all competition in today's medical schools. it's a shame. i swear people don't start out medical school saying that they really love moles. If you are rich and love pediatrics, who cares if they are one of the lowest compensated doctors.... ;

-To add some positives about the degree: it is the best science and the most respected. i swear gold comes out of my mouth when i talk. the reason for this is that people are selfish, therefore the science of plants, dogs, etc is not as important to them as the science of them.

- i also noticed you are really into socializing and meeting women etc. An MD can certainly increase your market value. I said I regret applying; thats it! I love having the MD/.! Usually when i meet a girl i am the first young doctor they have ever met (everyone else is working!). You are going into the encounter with a great starting hand... society has it in their head that docs are rich; little do they know that i may easily be the poorest guy they've ever dated...
To say the least i'm happy and having fun.

-Niner: 400K?? but to give you credit i feel that you are currently in one of the two fields that i actually consider "worth it." EM is a good choice but it is an exception.

I'm rarely on this forum, but your post was a striking mirror image of me so i felt like replying. you should not go to medical school at this point in your life. take your interviews if you get them. if you get accepted into an american MD program, you should probably take it (the degree is worth it even if you don't want to practice). but i think you are not ready and would be happier if you took a couple years to get some things out of your system.