To US School after Caribbean

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spadecricket

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Is this possible? I'm contemplating leaving my Caribbean school and trying to reapply stateside(i.e. retake MCAT and improve GPA, maybe scribe or get clinical job).

I've only been in the Caribbean for one semester and it's a living hell. I should have researched before leaving my home and I now know this was foolish.

I don't enough know how to get new LORs- would I need to start a science masters(again, how would I get letters)?
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A lot of schools do ask if you've matriculated at another medical school. Might be worth speaking with admissions to see how much of a red mark it is against you.

What carrib school? And how did you do?
 
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spadecricket said:
Is this possible? I'm contemplating leaving my Caribbean school and trying to reapply stateside(i.e. retake MCAT and improve GPA, maybe scribe or get clinical job).

I've only been in the Caribbean for one semester and it's a living hell. I should have researched before leaving my home and I now know this was foolish.

I don't enough know how to get new LORs- would I need to start a science masters(again, how would I get letters)?
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You'd be DOA at my school
 
There have been a few transfer from Caribbean to US Med schools. But I think the total amount can be counted on one hand.
 
spadecricket said:
Hey, **** you man
******.
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This is exhibit A of why you probably ended up in a Caribbean school to begin with.

It is exceedingly rare for a Caribbean medical student to be accepted to any US medical school. For starters, it is exceptionally rare for a transfer or re-acceptance of a student who has already matriculated to begin schooling at another medical school. My knowledge is that, for a transfer, the deans of both schools must allow for the transfer to occur, and these are usually only granted in the case of profound life circumstances. And that's just for American medical students. You're carrying the baggage of making the generally poor decision to attend a Caribbean school and then doubling down on the fact that it was a bad decision by declaring you no longer want to be there.

@Goro's school is the rule, not the exception.

@jurassicpark is probably correct that it happens from time to time, but I'd imagine it's a very rare phenomenon.
 
spadecricket said:
Tell me about it. Maybe I'm just venting and I need to look at the glass half full.
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I think that is one possibility. Rally, put your head down, and get it done. Match and end up the doctor you always wanted to be.

Right now I would take stock of the information available. The match rate of your school, how you realistically expect to perform, and what the odds are that you will match a residency back in the US.

The match rates of the best Caribean schools are ~70%. That is for all of their students, the best and the worst. If you do well, it may be on par with US DO/MD rates, but if you come out in the bottom 25% then you may end up in a nightmare scenario with huge debt and no job.

If I were in your shoes, I would take stock now and try to get the most realistic estimate of my chances and ability to succeed. If you can't visualize success, and your debt load is <$100,000 USD, then I would get out of dodge. Go back home (if possible), get a job in your undergrad field and recenter yourself. Figure out what to do from there.

The last thing you want to do is be miserable for 4 years, underperform as a result, fail to match, leave with no job and a boatload of debt.

I don't mean make light of this but that would be some serious territory. You feel trapped now, but if you end up in that scenario it could make a self-induced exit from this earth a tantalizing option. At least it would for me.
 
I could get through but this is the first time I've felt stupid and it hurts.


ktyler789 said:
I think that is one possibility. Rally, put your head down, and get it done. Match and end up the doctor you always wanted to be.

Right now I would take stock of the information available. The match rate of your school, how you realistically expect to perform, and what the odds are that you will match a residency back in the US.

The match rates of the best Caribean schools are ~70%. That is for all of their students, the best and the worst. If you do well, it may be on par with US DO/MD rates, but if you come out in the bottom 25% then you may end up in a nightmare scenario with huge debt and no job.

If I were in your shoes, I would take stock now and try to get the most realistic estimate of my chances and ability to succeed. If you can't visualize success, and your debt load is
The last thing you want to do is be miserable for 4 years, underperform as a result, fail to match, leave with no job and a boatload of debt.

I don't mean make light of this but that would be some serious territory. You feel trapped now, but if you end up in that scenario it could make a self-induced exit from this earth a tantalizing option. At least it would for me.
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spadecricket said:
I could get through but this is the first time I've felt stupid and it really hurts.

I'm intrested in neurology and I could match this from my school.
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Feeling stupid is something that happens to almost all medical students at all school at some point (save for the Will Hunting types).

There is no getting around it, as far as I can tell. We (medical students) just have to get used to feeling incompetent in some manner or another for the better part of a decade.

If you are confident you can match, I would stick it out.
 
I’m considering taking a LOA while I deal with some family emergencies.
On this possible LOA, how could I also work on my study skills? Should I see a specialist? I just feel like I’m not learning correctly and family issues haven’t helped.
 
spadecricket said:
On this possible LOA, how could I also work on my study skills? Should I see a specialist? I just feel like I’m not learning correctly and family issues haven’t helped.
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Sorry but this is stuff you figure out in high school and maybe college. You're taking a LOA from a carib school. I think that ship has sailed for you.
 
As others have said, your decision should be whether you stop completely or continue to push on in the Caribbean. If you're going to take an LOA, with everything else you have going on, you probably need to consider calling it quits. This is just my take on it, of course, but the deeper self-assessment is up to you. Best of luck!
 
In a prior post, you said "I'm borderline (like if I don't improve, I'll fail)."

I'm sorry, but it's probably time to withdraw. You tried to take what seemed like a shortcut into the medical professional, and it turned out to be a dead end. A for-profit, predatory institution that accepts everybody with a pulse gave you a chance at defying the odds, and you came unprepared.

If you seriously want to give it another go, spend a couple of years taking post-bacc science classes at a local university, thoroughly study for and retake the MCAT, and work/volunteer in a healthcare setting. In a couple of years (if you perform well and still want to be a physician at that point), you will have the option of applying broadly to DO and/or podiatry schools. Good luck.
 
Imagine reading the following:

“Hey guys. I managed to just barely get into Meharry off the waitlist at the last second. This is way harder than I thought and I just don’t think I should have attended. I think I’d do really well at Harvard though. Any way to transfer over there?”

Your proposal is more ridiculous than that.
 
It is possible to get into a DO school. Leave, retake the MCAT and apply to one of the masters programs with DO linkages. It worked for so hopefully it works for you. Wish you all the best
 
TimeTraveller said:
It is possible to get into a DO school. Leave, retake the MCAT and apply to one of the masters programs with DO linkages. It worked for so hopefully it works for you. Wish you all the best
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Eh maybe the really new schools. But at most its still DOA. Goro is an ADCOM and says it constantly. At best OP can try to go podiatry or something in medicine less competitive than physician if they leave
 
Chibucks15 said:
Eh maybe the really new schools. But at most its still DOA. Goro is an ADCOM and says it constantly. At best OP can try to go podiatry or something in medicine less competitive than physician if they leave
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I did it so I am saying it is possible and no, it wasn't at a newer DO school. I did Touro NY masters and gained admission. It will be an uphill battle but doable. OP PM me if you want to know more
 
It's possible. Are the chances great? It all depends on your personal application and who's on the receiving end. I know of several cases that have done it. But they were at one of the big 4 Carib schools.

Either way, I would pull the plug on the Caribbean now before you get in too deep. If you successfully get into a US school, great. If you don't, you can move on with your life without the stress/burden of those loans hanging over you, and find something that you can succeed at. You already admitted going to the Caribb was a mistake. Don't compound the mistake by digging deeper when you're still early on and have a chance to get out without too much harm.

You've got to take care of yourself mentally/physically first so definitely take a LOA if you need it, spend time with family, and gather yourself. But don't take a LOA and then go back to the Caribb - that will be a second red flag on your application. Come back to the US, spend time getting your mind and application right, give it a shot, and have a backup plan if it doesn't work out. Best of luck.
 
There are two possible ways to transfer from a Carib school to a US medical school. Both are extremely difficult.

The first is to complete the first two years with flying colors, and get a great score on S1. If you do that, there are a very small number of USMD schools that take a very small number of transfers. Usually, these are schools that have large numbers of BS/MD students, and if enough of them fail out it may open some 3rd year spots for carib transfers. The number of schools that allow this is very small, and you might need to be a resident of those states to even have a chance.

The second is to drop out, come back to the US, and try as mentioned above. All/Most MD schools will not consider you at all -- they will see you were enrolled in an MD school and consider you as "dropped out". As mentioned, I have seen this pathway in a very small number of DO graduates. This is extremely unlikely -- you would need to come back to the US and get into one of the linkage programs mentioned, and then have a good enough performance to earn a spot in medical school.

Although the living conditions in the US are likely much better than in the Carib (beach excepted), the material is just as challenging and voluminous. Many students who transition from college to med school find the pace of material, and the fact that it all builds upon itself (i.e. you can't just cram for an exam and then forget it, you need to remember much of what you learn in each subject to master the next) extremely challenging. This won't change in the US.

Your other thread was asking about Gen Surg coming from the Carib. This is possible, but you need a 1st-2nd quartile performance, and it helps if youre coming from one of the more established programs.

No one here can tell you what the right thing to do is -- because there is no "right thing". If you stay in the Carib and are reasonably successful, you'll likely be able to get a US training spot but your choice of programs and fields will be limited. If you stay in the Carib and have problems -- of which an LOA would be considered a possible "problem", then your options may be even more limited or you may have trouble finding a spot at all. If you come back to the US, you have a very small chance of getting a spot in a US school, and a very large chance of getting no medical school spot.

Given all that, my best advice would be to finish out the semester. If you do poorly, then it's time to cut your losses and drop out. You can work towards a US school admission if you want, but honestly your chances will not be great and you'd probably be better off focusing on Plan B, whatever that is. If you do really well, then you can decide whether to continue in the Carib vs trying to come back to the US -- a good performance in a Carib school would probably be a strength when applying to one of these linkage programs, showing that you can do the material. Plus, it's unlikely much of your tuition would be refunded (although I could be wrong about that).

To be clear, doing well in the Carib = grades of "A". Although B's will get you through the Carib and, with a good Step score will likely get you a residency spot, they won't impress any US school.
 
TimeTraveller said:
I did it so I am saying it is possible and no, it wasn't at a newer DO school. I did Touro NY masters and gained admission. It will be an uphill battle but doable. OP PM me if you want to know more
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Man that’s impressive! You’re some of a few who have. Working in healthcare for a while I’ve only ever seen pure Carib docs not a lot of transfers and back in my “search for LORs however I can” days I would talk to a lot.

Congrats because your situation is rare as hell
 
Dave1980 said:
Sorry but this is stuff you figure out in high school and maybe college. You're taking a LOA from a carib school. I think that ship has sailed for you.
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What are you talking about??? Many people refine their study skills in medical school, i mean everyday there is someone posting on r/medicalschool about failing a class or two and needing to rethink a strategy or approach. OP, I think that before you take a LOA, consult with an advisor or professor you can confide in and explain how you are looking to refine your study strategy. If they are of no help, many people have provided opinions and insight into this stuff on r/medicalschool daily so I would go there as a place to also get suggestions on how to change your study approach. Given how rare it is to transfer schools and possiblity of DOA at US med schools, if you really want to be a doctor, I would really hunker down and try to focus on killing STEP 1 and clinical rotations. That seems to be the way many IMG from Carribean schools can match decently in the US (especially on their first attempt at matching). Lastly, there are many Carribean students on SDN and reddit who have matched successfully so it would be good to reach out because they may have gone through similar struggles and can best assist you in achieving what you first wanted. I understand the pessimism on this forum from some, but don't understand people just piling on with the same negative comments about your decision to go Carribean. Best of luck
 
I understand this is very comical to some but I really don't want to give up on my dream of becoming a neurologist.

If I leave my current school, what should be my path forward?

Should I look at DO exclusively after a few years?
 
spadecricket said:
I understand this is very comical to some but I really don't want to give up on my dream of becoming a neurologist.

If I leave my current school, what should be my path forward?

Should I look at DO exclusively after a few years?
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Based on reading the comments above, if you come back to the US, you will need to work your *** off for the next few years. Do a post bacc and do well, like really well. Retake the MCAT and again do well, like really well. This process will take years, during this time you need to also be working on your EC's like volunteering. I think you need to build an application that would be good for the average mid/upper-mid tier first time USMD applicant. This will not be easy, and the odds are not in your favor, but if you do this you can then target mainly new DO schools and apply broadly, but you need to know that you will be DOA at the vast majority of schools. Getting back into a US school is not impossible, buts its close to it. Best of luck to you OP.
 
Would three years be sufficient time for an overhaul?

I really would ideally be in medical school by 30 but I'll do what I must do.
 
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spadecricket said:
I understand this is very comical to some but I really don't want to give up on my dream of becoming a neurologist.

If I leave my current school, what should be my path forward?

Should I look at DO exclusively after a few years?
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I, like most people in this thread have never been in this exact situation so take my speculation with a grain of salt.

Neuro is one of the most img friendly fields. If you want to be a neurologist in the near future your best bet is probably to crush it from here on in. Coming back to the US and beefing up your app for a DO school has apparently been done by someone in this thread so I’d hit that person up for more specifics. But doing so would potentially take years for a chance. By the time you get to start over here you could be an intern with an MD next to your name. And that’s assuming you could get in at all. Literally this is the only thing I can think of that’s even riskier than attending a Caribbean school in the first place! Even if it works out, you’d still lose a couple years of attending salary doing it.

To me, I know that if I left medical school to get into a better medical only to not be able to do so, I’d really be kicking myself.

Also, my apologies for an earlier comment. Most of the advice toward Caribbean students is harsh on this site bc they just refuse to accept the reality of not matching a top 20 derm program from the Caribbean with multiple board failures, but you don’t seem to fall in with that crowd.

Good luck!
 
Thank you!

Hopefully I can return to my current school; I'll have to explore this avenue.
Ho0v-man said:
I, like most people in this thread have never been in this exact situation so take my speculation with a grain of salt.

Neuro is one of the most img friendly fields. If you want to be a neurologist in the near future your best bet is probably to crush it from here on in. Coming back to the US and beefing up your app for a DO school has apparently been done by someone in this thread so I’d hit that person up for more specifics. But doing so would potentially take years for a chance. By the time you get to start over here you could be an intern with an MD next to your name. And that’s assuming you could get in at all. Literally this is the only thing I can think of that’s even riskier than attending a Caribbean school in the first place! Even if it works out, you’d still lose a couple years of attending salary doing it.

To me, I know that if I left medical school to get into a better medical only to not be able to do so, I’d really be kicking myself.

Also, my apologies for an earlier comment. Most of the advice toward Caribbean students is harsh on this site bc they just refuse to accept the reality of not matching a top 20 derm program from the Caribbean with multiple board failures, but you don’t seem to fall in with that crowd.

Good luck!
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spadecricket said:
Would three years be sufficient time for an overhaul?

I really would ideally be in medical school by 30 but I'll do what I must do.
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Can't really put a timeline on something like this since a lot depends on how your undergrad GPAs/MCAT was and in your Carrib classes grades.
You got an uphill battle ahead; good luck!
 
spadecricket said:
I understand this is very comical to some but I really don't want to give up on my dream of becoming a neurologist.

If I leave my current school, what should be my path forward?

Should I look at DO exclusively after a few years?
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Get into an SMP, preferably one hosted at a med school with some form of linkage
Ace the MCAT and the SMP
Prosper
 
If you want to be a neurologist. You should do well in you Carib school , do well on step 1 , and then apply neurology. Neurology is not a field that is off the table for us imgs.
 
I'm interested in neuro critical care which, from what I've gathered, requires a university based residency? How hard is land an academic neurology residency from the Caribbean?

Not trying to think too far ahead but it's a thought.

libertyyne said:
If you want to be a neurologist. You should do well in you Carib school , do well on step 1 , and then apply neurology. Neurology is not a field that is off the table for us imgs.
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spadecricket said:
I'm interested in neuro critical care which, from what I've gathered, requires a university based residency? How hard is land an academic neurology residency from the Caribbean?

Not trying to think too far ahead but it's a thought.
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The general answer to that question is "very", but it varies from year to year and from student to student. I would look at your school's individual matches to figure out how likely it is that you get placed in a program like that.

If a large relative percentage of your peers placed in programs like that, the prognosis is pretty good.
If none did, the prognosis is pretty bad.
 
spadecricket said:
I'm interested in neuro critical care which, from what I've gathered, requires a university based residency? How hard is land an academic neurology residency from the Caribbean?
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I don't know about Neuro critical care considering it is such a small specialty. Their match rates are in the 90's so I sincerely doubt they would be more selective.
 
I’d reference the spreadsheets from last year’s cycle as well as other sources to gauge your competitiveness- you’ll probably need many more apps than your US peers, and my guess is that interviews are less likely to be at academic centers. Neuro is a very FMG-friendly field, but it’s not as friendly to IMGs from what I’ve seen.
 
Isoval said:
I'm pretty sure the sole fact you touched a Caribbean school is enough for almost every medical school in the US to reject you immediately.

Sorry ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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There are no absolutes in medicine.

If the OP wanted to come to the US, he/she likely would not get in right away. It'll take a lot of work, possibly an SMP and even then, maybe a shot at some schools. Definitely won't be easy and likely will be rejected by a number of schools.
 
So, headed back stateside Wednesday. What should I do when I'm home to strengthen an SMP application?
 
spadecricket said:
So, headed back stateside Wednesday. What should I do when I'm home to strengthen an SMP application?
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You could take a few upper division classes at a 4 year college, study hard and do well on the MCAT. Most SMPs like to see upward trends and strong MCAT scores.
 
Dr.Gains said:
You could take a few upper division classes at a 4 year college, study hard and do well on the MCAT. Most SMPs like to see upward trends and strong MCAT scores.
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Lol, what? You're telling this poor guy to spend more time and money taking classes at college, retake the MCAT, so that he can then have the opportunity to take more classes, so that THEN he can go to medical school, which will include taking two more years of classes? This is a burned out probably premedical, but lets be optimistic and say medical, student in the making. Medicine is seriously not worth this.

If you can't go straight to a 1 year masters program or linkage program, I'd be calling it. Your entire life is going to be spent taking classes and accumulating debt otherwise.
 
How much student loan debt did you take on during your little Caribbean adventure? Don't forget that will grow bigger by the day...
 
Giovanotto said:
Lol, what? You're telling this poor guy to spend more time and money taking classes at college, retake the MCAT, so that he can then have the opportunity to take more classes, so that THEN he can go to medical school, which will include taking two more years of classes? This is a burned out probably premedical, but lets be optimistic and say medical, student in the making. Medicine is seriously not worth this.

If you can't go straight to a 1 year masters program or linkage program, I'd be calling it. Your entire life is going to be spent taking classes and accumulating debt otherwise.
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Wise words. I started medical school in my late 20s. I spent a number I years getting in but I was at least WORKING.

Becoming this kind of perpetual student always taking classes always trying to show an upward trend so MAYBE you can be a doctor...

As you age opportunities begin to dry up. And the consequences of failure after all these classes with nothing to show for them can be catastrophic. By the time you're an attending you will be deeply in debt and you may not have been able to enjoy much of your 20s/30s over the dress of it all. There is more to life than the job you have.

Try an SMP. Or maybe if you're doing okay you can make it to M3? I don't think anyone will say that the first two years of medical school don't make them feel trapped.
 
Giovanotto said:
Lol, what? You're telling this poor guy to spend more time and money taking classes at college, retake the MCAT, so that he can then have the opportunity to take more classes, so that THEN he can go to medical school, which will include taking two more years of classes? This is a burned out probably premedical, but lets be optimistic and say medical, student in the making. Medicine is seriously not worth this.

If you can't go straight to a 1 year masters program or linkage program, I'd be calling it. Your entire life is going to be spent taking classes and accumulating debt otherwise.
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I wasn't necessarily advising him to do one or the other. But it seems that his heart is set on attempting to matriculate into a US medical school after dropping out from the Caribbean even after advice from multiple people. I was simply replying to his post regarding SMPs. Otherwise, I concur with what you said.
 
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