Today's AOA match for psychiatry

[st2205]

There were six different programs with a total of nine different spots left unmatched after today. Generally the osteopathic spots are few in number, but in the past year four new residencies have opened up (Florida Department of Corrections, Larkin Community Hospital, University Hospital and Medical Center [Tamarac, FL], and Grandview Medical Center [though this is actually at the VA over an hour away in Chilecothe]) and one allopathic residency has apparently gotten OGME accreditation to accept through the DO match (Nassau University Medical Center).

According to my rough numbers, there were 32 spots available in this match. With 9 going unfilled (and assuming those numbers truly represented an unfilled program) there's a 72% fill rate pre-scramble. I was surprised to see how many psych spots went left open. I don't have the numbers, but I remember seeing the past year or two there were only a couple spots open after the match. Obviously the expansion of programs can account for some of this, or perhaps a smaller interest in psychiatry, or a greater interest in the allopathic match, or even likely a combination of all the above.

One interesting note is that of the two spots available at Arrowhead Regional Medical Center, both were filled. This is interesting especially considering the statements made on this board that this program had actually closed and that the residents had to find spots in other programs. I have no idea what the source of this rumor was, but I assumed it to be true since Arrowhead lists all their programs on their site except psychiatry, so I'm really curious about this.

I find it very unfortunate that these programs offer so little information available online. It makes it difficult for an applicant to consider exploring the osteopathic match for psychiatry when you have to wonder, because of the limited number of options, if it is really worth your time or money to deal with the DO match when there are over a hundred other allopathic programs that are so much easier to research. The only DO programs that you can actually find any information about are those that are dually accredited and take students from both matches (John Peter Smith Hospital, Henry Ford, MSU, UMDNJ Our Lady of Lourdes).

Even on this forum through the years, there has been absolutely nothing said about any of the strictly osteopathic residencies. The reasons of which are obviously multifactorial (not to mention the incredibly small world it is), but if the DO psych world is serious about recruiting and maintaining us they need to get us some damn information.

Anyhow, for those interested these are the numbers for each program

Arrowhead Regional Medical center - 2
Florida Department of Corrections - 2
Larkin Community Hospital - 3 (1 unfilled)
Columbia Hospital - 4 (2 unfilled
Henry Ford Hospitals - 2 (1 unfilled)
Michigan State University - 3
UMDNJ - 3
Nassau University Medical Center - 2
Grandview Medical Center - 2
Good Samaritan Regional Medical Center - 3 (1 unfilled)
Millcreek Community Hospital - 4 (3 unfilled)
John Peter Smith Hospital - 2 (1 unfilled)

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[Lals]

One of the reasons there isn't much to be said online about some of these programs is that there isn't much to be said in person, either. I speak from experience, having interviewed at one of the new programs you mentioned. I doubted I would rank said program before interviewing; afterwards I was convinced. I am not surprised to see this program did not fill.

In regards to UMDNJ, they unfortunately elected to 'voluntarily withdraw' from their dual accreditation status after I interviewed (but before I ranked, thankfully), and now are only accredited by the AOA. As a result, I did not rank them either.

 

[sweetlenovo88]

One of the reasons there isn't much to be said online about some of these programs is that there isn't much to be said in person, either. I speak from experience, having interviewed at one of the new programs you mentioned. I doubted I would rank said program before interviewing; afterwards I was convinced. I am not surprised to see this program did not fill.

In regards to UMDNJ, they unfortunately elected to 'voluntarily withdraw' from their dual accreditation status after I interviewed (but before I ranked, thankfully), and now are only accredited by the AOA. As a result, I did not rank them either.

sent u a pm

 

[zac16125]

I am a DO student. When I was thinking about applying IM I was going to apply to both AOA and allo programs. I generally like the atmosphere at DO places and feel you can get very good training at both. However, now that I am most likely going to go the psych route, I have no intention of even applying AOA. It has nothing to do with competitivness, as I think I would be able to match IM at an allo program with no problem. Rather, it has everything in the world to do with the lack of what I would consider quality AOA psych programs, particularly in an areas of the country where I may want to live. I think its important in psych, maybe moreso than other residencies (IM, surg, or the speciality surgery residencies) to have access to a large university setting where you have a more diverse clientle, and access to things like a free standing addiction clinic, eating disorder facility, etc. I think with psych you could be at a disadvantage training at a community hospital. And since none of the big programs at the AOA match are places where I want to live, I've decided that if I apply psych it will be allo only. I'm guessing many people in a situation similar to mine feel the same way.

 

[NJWxMan]

There are many, many reasons to avoid matching at an osteopathic psychiatry program. Just a few significant reasons: A) Internship year requirement; B) Less faculty; C) Smaller hospitals in general in smaller cities with less psychopathology; D) Lack of research funding; E) Fewer residents = More work for those few residents; F) Few significant institution names (why train at Arthur Hospital when you can easily train at University of A, B, or C?); G) Newer, unproven residencies; H) No website for American College of Osteopathic Neurologists and Psychiatrists?; I) OMM requirements and bothersome OMM testing for physicians that will NEVER touch their patients.

 

[snowkhat]

There are many, many reasons to avoid matching at an osteopathic psychiatry program. Just a few significant reasons: A) Internship year requirement; B) Less faculty; C) Smaller hospitals in general in smaller cities with less psychopathology; D) Lack of research funding; E) Fewer residents = More work for those few residents; F) Few significant institution names (why train at Arthur Hospital when you can easily train at University of A, B, or C?); G) Newer, unproven residencies; H) No website for American College of Osteopathic Neurologists and Psychiatrists?; I) OMM requirements and bothersome OMM testing for physicians that will NEVER touch their patients.

I absolutely agree with NJW and nearly everything on this particular post. I really wanted to consider AOA programs but there were too many hurdles. In addition to NJWxMan's comments I think the programs aren't as rigorous, aren't academically attached, and some paid a whole heck of a lot less (with no moonlighting).

I totally don't get why there is a separate board and accreditation for "Osteopathic" Psychiatry. That honestly freaked me out.

 

[Fermata]

I have nothing more to add that hasn't already been said. This is the consensus among everyone that I've asked.

 

[Lals]

I have nothing more to add that hasn't already been said. This is the consensus among everyone that I've asked.

Agreed.

 

[toothless rufus]

Agreed.

Agree with the above agreeances that find the aforementioned agreeable.

 

[Lals]

Agree with the above agreeances that find the aforementioned agreeable.

Actually, I believe we agree to find the aforementioned rather UNagreeable.

Semantics, blah, etc., I am bored.

 

[toothless rufus]

Actually, I believe we agree to find the aforementioned rather UNagreeable.

Semantics, blah, etc., I am bored.

Haha good catch!

 

[peppy]

I know that back when I was interviewing, from what interviewers on the interview trail were saying, the MI programs were perceived as the best of the DO programs.
Personally, I think Henry Ford is a good program. The PD and chair there are both great. You'd see a lot of diverse pathology there because of the demographics of the area (inner city poor and extremely affluent suburbs in close proximity, a lot of racial/religious diversity, etc.). I would not have expected that program to be one of the ones that didn't fill.

I kind of wonder if one of the problems with the DO psych programs is that there may be a paucity of well-qualified faculty for them because historically most DOs who are interested in psych go through the allo match due to the number of programs in DO psych being so small (a few years ago I think there were only like 4 of them), so most of the DO world's psych graduates and potential future educators in the DO system probably end up feeling more of an affinity to the allo system. I don't think you're allowed to be a PD of an AOA program unless you did AOA training.
However, I suspect that over the next few years, as the number of med school applicants increases without a corresponding increase in residency spots, people may end up becoming more interested in DO programs out of necessity.

 

[st2205]

I'm pretty sure the Erie PD is an MD.

Edit: I stand corrected.

 

[Daedra22]

I know that back when I was interviewing, from what interviewers on the interview trail were saying, the MI programs were perceived as the best of the DO programs.
Personally, I think Henry Ford is a good program. The PD and chair there are both great. You'd see a lot of diverse pathology there because of the demographics of the area (inner city poor and extremely affluent suburbs in close proximity, a lot of racial/religious diversity, etc.). I would not have expected that program to be one of the ones that didn't fill.

I kind of wonder if one of the problems with the DO psych programs is that there may be a paucity of well-qualified faculty for them because historically most DOs who are interested in psych go through the allo match due to the number of programs in DO psych being so small (a few years ago I think there were only like 4 of them), so most of the DO world's psych graduates and potential future educators in the DO system probably end up feeling more of an affinity to the allo system. I don't think you're allowed to be a PD of an AOA program unless you did AOA training.
However, I suspect that over the next few years, as the number of med school applicants increases without a corresponding increase in residency spots, people may end up becoming more interested in DO programs out of necessity.

Are there osteopathic psych fellowships, or can you work your way into an ACGME fellowship after an AOA residency? I always hear that if you want a fellowship you need to go ACGME... but I find it strange that if you go into AOA you wouldn't be able to get into, say, Child. Perhaps I'm missing something here (lowly OMS-1).

 

[st2205]

Are there osteopathic psych fellowships, or can you work your way into an ACGME fellowship after an AOA residency? I always hear that if you want a fellowship you need to go ACGME... but I find it strange that if you go into AOA you wouldn't be able to get into, say, Child. Perhaps I'm missing something here (lowly OMS-1).

Both MSU and UMDNJ have child psych fellowships. As far as any other fellowships (sans forensics and the others that aren't strictly psych fellowships like pain and sleep) my assumption is there shouldn't be a problem since so many of those fellowship slots go unfilled every year. But again, it would be hard to know because you currently only have a couple of graduates each year from AOA residencies. Only Millcreek community has been around long enough to have graduates go on to fellowship (MSU, UMDNJ and JPSH are all dually accredited, so I'm not counting them).

On a side note, I was thinking there was a forensic psychiatry fellowship that just opened on the AOA side and I was searching for it on google (since my phone doesn't access the AOA site very well). Anyway, I was confused with a forensic pathology fellowship, but I did manage to stumble upon this gem of an article...

http://www.ehow.com/how_4501284_become-osteopathy-psychiatrist.html

How to Become an Osteopathy Psychiatrist

An osteopathy psychiatrist is a psychiatrist that utilizes the philosophies of osteopathy to treat patients. Osteopathy is a holistic medical discipline that believes in the inner healing powers connected to the harmony between the mind, body and spirit. Osteopathy psychiatrists utilize hands on manipulation of the cranium as well as cranial sacrum massage to help their patients. If you are interested in this career, then you are in for a challenge

•1
Complete your undergraduate degree at an accredited college or university. Since you are pursuing a career in psychiatry, you need to select a degree program in biology, psychology or chemistry. Pre-med programs can also be helpful, although they are not required.

•2
Sign up, take and pass your MCAT. All medical schools will require that you take this test. You can find an application and test preparation materials for this exam at the official website for the MCAT (see Resources below).

•3
Complete 4 years of medical school. During the first 2 years of medical school you will want to focus your studies on psychiatry, behavioral science and neuroscience. However, you will still need to complete the other required courses for a medical degree. During the last 2 years of your medical school education you need to select a psychiatry clerkship. This is where you will gain your practical experience.

•4
Specialize in psychiatric medicine by completing a 3-year residency program in psychiatry. During this program you will shadow clinical psychiatrists and learn more about what psychiatrists do and how they assess and treat patients. As this program progresses, you will take on more patient care responsibilities.

•5
Sub-specialize in osteopathy psychiatry. After you specialize in psychiatry you will want to complete a 4-year sub-specialization program in osteopathy psychiatry. During this phase of your professional training, you will explore the unique techniques used by osteopathy mental health professionals such as the use of cranial secral massage. You will also explore the field of holistic medicine, which looks at the connection between the mind, the body and the spirit.

•6
Apply for your professional credentials. To start with you will want to take the United States Medical License Exam, also referred to as the USMLE (see Resources below). Passing this exam will qualify you for a medical license, and allow you to practice medicine. Next you will want to get certified by the American Board of Psychiatry. This certification is optional, but it will help establish your credentials as a medical professional and you will be able to call yourself a "certified psychiatrist."

•7
Work as an osteopathy psychiatrist. You can work in a clinical setting or in a research setting. Find jobs by exploring local resources or by checking out special online job boards like MedHunters.com and PracticeLink.com (see Resources below).



Read more: How to Become an Osteopathy Psychiatrist | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_4501284_become-osteopathy-psychiatrist.html#ixzz1EJgG1cTQ

 

[Daedra22]

Both MSU and UMDNJ have child psych fellowships. As far as any other fellowships (sans forensics and the others that aren't strictly psych fellowships like pain and sleep) my assumption is there shouldn't be a problem since so many of those fellowship slots go unfilled every year. But again, it would be hard to know because you currently only have a couple of graduates each year from AOA residencies. Only Millcreek community has been around long enough to have graduates go on to fellowship (MSU, UMDNJ and JPSH are all dually accredited, so I'm not counting them).

Thank you, that was very helpful.

 

[snowkhat]

What the heck are they talking about? Bizarre

Both MSU and UMDNJ have child psych fellowships. As far as any other fellowships (sans forensics and the others that aren't strictly psych fellowships like pain and sleep) my assumption is there shouldn't be a problem since so many of those fellowship slots go unfilled every year. But again, it would be hard to know because you currently only have a couple of graduates each year from AOA residencies. Only Millcreek community has been around long enough to have graduates go on to fellowship (MSU, UMDNJ and JPSH are all dually accredited, so I'm not counting them).

On a side note, I was thinking there was a forensic psychiatry fellowship that just opened on the AOA side and I was searching for it on google (since my phone doesn't access the AOA site very well). Anyway, I was confused with a forensic pathology fellowship, but I did manage to stumble upon this gem of an article...

http://www.ehow.com/how_4501284_become-osteopathy-psychiatrist.html

 

[st2205]

What the heck are they talking about? Bizarre

I'm not certain since nothing in that pertaining to osteopathy, medicine, or psychiatry is even close to accurate. It was amazing, nonetheless.

 

[Daedra22]

I'm not certain since nothing in that pertaining to osteopathy, medicine, or psychiatry is even close to accurate. It was amazing, nonetheless.

Ehow: great for learning how to cook a steak, not always the best career advice.

 

[Cinnameg]

Ehow: great for learning how to cook a steak, not always the best career advice.

Wow . . . if I didn't have to create an account to do it (or agree to allow eHow to access all the information in my Facebook page and send me emails!) I would correct this article. It's hard enough to understand the process of becoming a physician -- I'm constantly explaining it to high schoolers and college kids who are interested -- without misinformation being propagated for no reason.

 

[snowkhat]

Wow . . . if I didn't have to create an account to do it (or agree to allow eHow to access all the information in my Facebook page and send me emails!) I would correct this article. It's hard enough to understand the process of becoming a physician -- I'm constantly explaining it to high schoolers and college kids who are interested -- without misinformation being propagated for no reason.

Yes please someone fix this article.

 

[zac16125]

4 years of cranial sacral massage, can you imagine the torture?