Toledo vs Wright State vs MSU. (Urgent! Please help)

[lilyapple1]

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Hi guys, I would be grateful to get any input/advice on which of these schools to attend. I need to make a decision as soon as possible, hopefully today). Here are some factors to consider:


1. I have the option to be in state for either of these schools so cost of attendance isn't significantly different (except MSU whose in-state tuition/cost of attendance is about 10-13k/year higher than the other options)

2. Location doesn't matter to me much as all 3 schools are approximately the same with regard to distance to family and friends

3. All 3 schools use a pass/fail system for pre-clinical years and have similar step scores however Toledo is the only one that has its own university hospital. Does this matter much?

4. Wright State's year 1 and 2 curriculum is almost entirely self study (no actual lectures, heavy team based learning emphasis) and would require a ton of self-discipline and self-motivation. MSU's curriculum requires 8 hours a week of basically medical assistant duties at a clinic. Toledo's curriculum has a somewhat mandatory lecture attendance policy (attendance is 5% of your grade, need to attend at least 80% of lectures to get full points for attendance however lectures are still recorded).

5. I'm unsure about how big of a difference there is with regard to reputation of the schools, and what kinds of opportunities either school would provide with regard to performance on step1, research opportunities and chances of getting into a good residency.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!


Thanks!

 

[KdotLB]

Hi guys, I would be grateful to get any input/advice on which of these schools to attend. I need to make a decision as soon as possible, hopefully today). Here are some factors to consider:


1. I have the option to be in state for either of these schools so cost of attendance isn't significantly different (except MSU whose in-state tuition/cost of attendance is about 10-13k/year higher than the other options)

2. Location doesn't matter to me much as all 3 schools are approximately the same with regard to distance to family and friends

3. All 3 schools use a pass/fail system for pre-clinical years and have similar step scores however Toledo is the one that has its own university hospital. Does this matter much?

4. Wright State's year 1 and 2 curriculum is almost entirely self study (no actual lectures, heavy team based learning emphasis) and would require a ton of self-discipline and self-motivation. MSU's curriculum requires 8 hours a week of basically medical assistant duties at a clinic. Toledo's curriculum has a somewhat mandatory lecture attendance policy (attendance is 5% of your grade, need to attend at least 80% of lectures to get full points for attendance however lectures are still recorded).

5. I'm unsure about how big of a difference there is with regard to reputation of the schools, and what kinds of opportunities either school would provide with regard to performance on step1, research opportunities and chances of getting into a good residency.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!


Thanks!

The only school I interviewed at of these was wright state. Seemed like the lack of a University hospital was a negative, although they have several affiliations, one of which is a large hospital with many home programs. Just meant more driving.

I felt there was a strong primary care emphasis, robust international health opportunities, and rural care emphasis. These are either good or not so good depending on your interests.

To me, their TBL seemed fairly new and from what the current students said a little clunky and disorganized. Can’t remember if they were true P/F or P/F with internal quartile ranking.


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[lilyapple1]

The only school I interviewed at of these was wright state. Seemed like the lack of a University hospital was a negative, although they have several affiliations, one of which is a large hospital with many home programs. Just meant more driving.

I felt there was a strong primary care emphasis, robust international health opportunities, and rural care emphasis. These are either good or not so good depending on your interests.

To me, their TBL seemed fairly new and from what the current students said a little clunky and disorganized. Can’t remember if they were true P/F or P/F with internal quartile ranking.


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Thanks for your input! I loved their international health opportunities! I don't have any specific interests yet but it would be nice to not be limited to rural or primary care just in case I develop other interests along the way. The student body at Wright also seemed very happy, welcoming and close knit compared to the others.

 

[Deus Ex Medicine]

Toledo is the one that has its own university hospital. Does this matter much?

It matters. Having a home base, a place to do rotations, a place that lets you easily get involved with research, etc. is important.

Toledo's curriculum has a somewhat mandatory lecture attendance policy (attendance is 5% of your grade, need to attend at least 80% of lectures to get full points for attendance however lectures are still recorded).

I interviewed at UToledo. It was a great experience. However, the mandatory lecture attendance policy was a deal-breaker for me. Lecture is the most inefficient way to learn.

step1, research opportunities and chances of getting into a good residency.

According to US News and World Report:

Research-wise:
MSU (#89, $21.3M, NIH)
Wright State (Unranked, $6.1M NIH)
Toledo (Unranked, $7.9M, NIH)

Step 1 average:
Wright State (260 -is this a typo because that’s insane, out of 100 students?)
Toledo (229)
MSU (225)

Residency:
Wright State has popular matches into EM, anesthesia, orthopedics, and the primary care specialties - this school is ranked #73 for primary care and has a primary care leaning.
University of Toledo has popular matches to EM, anesthesia, surgery, radiology and primary care specialities. Unranked for primary care.
MSU has popular matches to more varied specialties including neurology, orthopedics, surgery, in addition to anesthesia, EM, primary care - ranked #61 for primary care.

Seems like Wright State if those board scores hold up is the clear pick? Otherwise, MSU.

 

[KdotLB]

It matters. Having a home base, a place to do rotations, a place that lets you easily get involved with research, etc. is important.



I interviewed at UToledo. It was a great experience. However, the mandatory lecture attendance policy was a deal-breaker for me. Lecture is the most inefficient way to learn.



According to US News and World Report:

Research-wise:
MSU (#89, $21.3M, NIH)
Wright State (Unranked, $6.1M NIH)
Toledo (Unranked, $7.9M, NIH)

Step 1 average:
Wright State (260 -is this a typo because that’s insane, out of 100 students?)
Toledo (229)
MSU (225)

Residency:
Wright State has popular matches into EM, anesthesia, orthopedics, and the primary care specialties - this school is ranked #73 for primary care and has a primary care leaning.
University of Toledo has popular matches to EM, anesthesia, surgery, radiology and primary care specialities. Unranked for primary care.
MSU has popular matches to more varied specialties including neurology, orthopedics, surgery, in addition to anesthesia, EM, primary care - ranked #61 for primary care.

Seems like Wright State if those board scores hold up is the clear pick? Otherwise, MSU.

There is zero way those board scores hold up


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[lilyapple1]

It matters. Having a home base, a place to do rotations, a place that lets you easily get involved with research, etc. is important.



I interviewed at UToledo. It was a great experience. However, the mandatory lecture attendance policy was a deal-breaker for me. Lecture is the most inefficient way to learn.



According to US News and World Report:

Research-wise:
MSU (#89, $21.3M, NIH)
Wright State (Unranked, $6.1M NIH)
Toledo (Unranked, $7.9M, NIH)

Step 1 average:
Wright State (260 -is this a typo because that’s insane, out of 100 students?)
Toledo (229)
MSU (225)

Residency:
Wright State has popular matches into EM, anesthesia, orthopedics, and the primary care specialties - this school is ranked #73 for primary care and has a primary care leaning.
University of Toledo has popular matches to EM, anesthesia, surgery, radiology and primary care specialities. Unranked for primary care.
MSU has popular matches to more varied specialties including neurology, orthopedics, surgery, in addition to anesthesia, EM, primary care - ranked #61 for primary care.

Seems like Wright State if those board scores hold up is the clear pick? Otherwise, MSU.

Appreciate the input! Yeah, that step 1 average for Wright state seems inaccurate. Regarding match stats for competitive residencies, Toledo seems to have the more impressive match list with ~70% non primary care, 30% primary care compared to MSU's 85% primary care matches. Toledo also appears to have a higher step 1 average. Besides research rankings, is there a reason you'd pick MSU over Toledo or Wright?
Thanks so much!

 

[Deus Ex Medicine]

Toledo also appears to have a higher step 1 average. Besides research rankings, is there a reason you'd pick MSU over Toledo or Wright?

Unfortunately, I don’t know much about MSU. At Toledo, I agree that they have some good match statistics. Notably, the Promedica merger has also poured money into UToledo. When I was there, they were building up new labs and I expect that research opportunities will improve there.

The #1 most important metric is board scores, because if you’re interested in something other than primary care, you’re going to need a good score. Toledo is above the national average I believe and they match a good number of people into radiology and surgery.

I think I would want to maintain as much flexibility as possible. MSU makes you do required clinical stuff and Toledo requires lecture attendance. I think it just comes down to what you think is most important there...?

Any preferences about specialties? Does the school in question have a home department? It’s a lesser concern, obviously, but I think it bears mentioning.

 

[lilyapple1]

Unfortunately, I don’t know much about MSU. At Toledo, I agree that they have some good match statistics. Notably, the Promedica merger has also poured money into UToledo. When I was there, they were building up new labs and I expect that research opportunities will improve there.

The #1 most important metric is board scores, because if you’re interested in something other than primary care, you’re going to need a good score. Toledo is above the national average I believe and they match a good number of people into radiology and surgery.

I think I would want to maintain as much flexibility as possible. MSU makes you do required clinical stuff and Toledo requires lecture attendance. I think it just comes down to what you think is most important there...?

Any preferences about specialties? Does the school in question have a home department? It’s a lesser concern, obviously, but I think it bears mentioning.

Yes, I've heard that the Promedica-UToledo merger is a pretty huge deal. They actually just opened up a brand new neurosciences center (for research, academics and patient care) which students will have access to for clinical rotations, research, shadowing etc.

Regarding specialty preferences, I have none yet but I would like to keep my options open. From what I'm seeing online, it seems Toledo does have home residencies for orthopedic surgery, general surgery, anesthesiology, radiology, OB/GYN, EM, IM, FM, etc.)

You've brought up very helpful points that I hadn't initially considered, and I'll definitely take everything into consideration. Thanks again!

 

[lilyapple1]

There is zero way those board scores hold up


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For just Wright State or for all 3 schools?

 

[Deus Ex Medicine]

For just Wright State or for all 3 schools?

For Wright State. 260 is completely insane. Other scores are just above/below average.

 

[lordolah]

I have heard from current students at Toledo that they will be reducing mandatory lectures from 80% to 50% FYI