Too late to apply?

[JohnZoidberg]

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I'm planning on submitting my AMCAS app. by the end of this month. I my academic stats are on the lower end of the acceptance bell curve but I have great work/volunteer experience and many extracurriculars. Am I too late?

 

[brooklynblunder]

so your amcas will be verified late october - early november...


i would save the money, but thats just me personally

 

[Desaad]

I'd say apply, assuming you have the money to. Your AMCAS should be verified pretty quick, as I don't think there are many still out there.

In the interim you can work on the secondaries by using the prompts, perhaps getting them in as as soon as they come, which is of course a big boon/looks good.

 

[Equality]

If you can improve your app this year by getting good grades, doing better on MCAT and getting even better letters, apply early next year. Not getting in this year and applying as a reapp next or getting into a school of not your top choice would not be worth starting med school one year sooner. Do it all next year with as best app as you can present and have no regrets. I was in your situation last year but decided to wait a year, so now i'm applying "fresh" as a first time applicant and with much better application. I am doing well, too, and I certainly have no regrets having waited an extra year and improving my stats and ECs along the way.

 

[searun]

I recommend that you wait and apply early next year. You are at a disadvantage applying so late. You do not want to risk failure this year and then have to apply as a reapplicant. It is much tougher as a reapplicant. Take your best shot when your application is the strongest and apply early. I waited two years after college graduation to apply and used the time to strengthen my application so that I did not have to apply twice.

 

[Food]

I think it's late - you said your academic stats fall below the bell curve? I don't know, I'm a bit more cautious about the whole process now that I'm a re-app as well. Tough to say whether you're in good shape or not.

 

[faith2]

do not do it because if you get rejected and apply next year ypu have to put that you applied already and some schools will look for dramatic changes and othersd will just reject you outright since you applied already with average stats improve your app start your personal statement now and the first day next year BOOM blow up🙂🙂🙂

 

[w8ting2exhale]

Don't apply this year. It's a bit too late. I'd say use the extra year to strengthen your application and start earlier next year

 

[flip26]

Too late - don't do it.

Get all your ducks in a row for a June submission next year. Improve your app - your grades, your ECs, your letters...

 

[fred213]

you are all crazy.

has the deadline passed? no? then of course it isn't too late.

come on...do you really think these adcoms are so dumb as to not realize that some people apply late? do you really think that you are somehow getting a durable advantage by applying early, so much so that it is worth waiting a whole year?

"oh, look at this borderline applicant," they'll say. "thank god it is only july! we can totally interview them! lucky for them it isn't september..."

i call BS. if you think you can trick an adcom into accepting you by applying june 1, then go ahead and wait to give it a shot next year. i prefer to give them a bit more credit.

 

[JJMrK]

you are all crazy.

has the deadline passed? no? then of course it isn't too late.

come on...do you really think these adcoms are so dumb as to not realize that some people apply late? do you really think that you are somehow getting a durable advantage by applying early, so much so that it is worth waiting a whole year?

"oh, look at this borderline applicant," they'll say. "thank god it is only july! we can totally interview them! lucky for them it isn't september..."

i call BS. if you think you can trick an adcom into accepting you by applying june 1, then go ahead and wait to give it a shot next year. i prefer to give them a bit more credit.

Many schools offer interviews and acceptances on a rolling basis. This means that they accept people as they evaluate them. As the cycle progresses, acceptances go out and the number of spots in the class of 2014 decreases. This means later applicants are competing for fewer spots; it should be obvious that this is a big disadvantage, especially when some schools begin accepting people in the middle of October.

 

[fred213]

i don't think anyone disputes that under a rolling admissions policy the number of available class spots decreases over time. but i dispute this whole ridiculous notion that selectivity increases alongside. you're competing for a fewer number of spots, but the playing field hasn't changed all summer.

i just don't believe that our friends at medical college of wherever realize some fateful day in mid-october that "s*** dudes, we only have like seven spots left! if only we hadn't let in all those unqualified students earlier in the cycle! how do we let them trick us like that every year!?! let's promise to only be super-selective for the next 5 months ok?"

a borderline applicant in june is a borderline applicant in september. i'll agree that maybe in september you'll get fewer screened secondaries and fewer interviews, but i don't buy that you'll get fewer total acceptances.

many of these schools have been educating students since before your *parents* were born. they know what sort of student they're looking for on june 1, and they're still looking for them on dec 1.

i think we all need to take a deep breath and stop pretending that we've uniquely discovered a secret to the medical school admissions process. you are a statistic in a distribution, measured historically over time. someone else exactly like you applied at exactly the same point somewhere in the past, and got accepted if a medical school was looking for someone like them. if a medical school is looking for someone like you, then they've got a spot open for you, regardless of when you apply.

 

[flip26]

i don't think anyone disputes that under a rolling admissions policy the number of available class spots decreases over time. but i dispute this whole ridiculous notion that selectivity increases alongside. you're competing for a fewer number of spots, but the playing field hasn't changed all summer.

i just don't believe that our friends at medical college of wherever realize some fateful day in mid-october that "s*** dudes, we only have like seven spots left! if only we hadn't let in all those unqualified students earlier in the cycle! how do we let them trick us like that every year!?! let's promise to only be super-selective for the next 5 months ok?"

a borderline applicant in june is a borderline applicant in september. i'll agree that maybe in september you'll get fewer screened secondaries and fewer interviews, but i don't buy that you'll get fewer total acceptances.

many of these schools have been educating students since before your *parents* were born. they know what sort of student they're looking for on june 1, and they're still looking for them on dec 1.

i think we all need to take a deep breath and stop pretending that we've uniquely discovered a secret to the medical school admissions process. you are a statistic in a distribution, measured historically over time. someone else exactly like you applied at exactly the same point somewhere in the past, and got accepted if a medical school was looking for someone like them. if a medical school is looking for someone like you, then they've got a spot open for you, regardless of when you apply.

You seem to completely misunderstand the dynamics of rolling admissions and the difference it makes on early vs late applications. For you to agree that the late applicant might get fewer interviews but no fewer acceptances is simply wrong - as schools grant acceptances, the number of seats left to be offered shrinks, and the selectivity goes up. The late applicant is at a disadvantage for both the number of interviews AND chances at acceptance for the simple reason that there are far more qualified applicants than available seats - the early acceptances are not being handed out to "unqualified" applicants.

There is a podcast from the University of Chicago med school that illustrates the power of the early application - I am going from memory here, so find it for yourself - but basically, the early applicant has at least a tenfold advantage of getting an interview and thus an acceptance as does a late applicant. Numbers were something like one in 6 to 8 early applicants gets an interview and thus a shot at acceptance, but later in the cycle, it is something like one in 100 hundred...which pile do you want your application in?

Another anecdote from this cycle: VCU is now scheduling interviews for February...other schools will soon have almost completely full interview schedules very soon...

Believe what you want, but selectivity definitely goes up over the course of the cycle for rolling admissions acceptances.

The OP should wait, improve his app, and apply early next cycle. This advice holds for anybody but the superstar applicant who has chances at the top research, non-rolling schools like Stanford, but even they get hurt by a late application - just read what Stanford advises in their secondary about getting the app in ASAP.

 

[Myuu]

i don't think anyone disputes that under a rolling admissions policy the number of available class spots decreases over time. but i dispute this whole ridiculous notion that selectivity increases alongside. you're competing for a fewer number of spots, but the playing field hasn't changed all summer.

Not at all true. Because there are fewer spots and a continuous (if slightly decreasing) stream of new applicants, the process becomes by its very nature more selective. Those last few spots are for the late applicant superstars.

 

[JohnZoidberg]

Thank you for the feedback. I am now very much considering just waiting for next year. Only problem is I won't have much of an opportunity to improve my app in that time. I graduated 3 years ago so my GPA isn't going to change (3.6 overall, 3.5 for sciences). I've already taken the MCAT 3 times and my best was from my second test (10 8 M 10). I don't want to screw that up anymore that I already have. I feel I have strong letters, a good essay and good ECs. The only thing I think I'm kind of lacking is shadowing experience but I work nearly fulltime and that would be difficult to squeeze in. Plus, I interned and currently work with physicians so I feel that shadowing is kind of pointless. So is it still worth it to wait the year? Also, why have the app. deadline be December 1st if it is pretty much pointless to apply after September?

 

[flip26]

Thank you for the feedback. I am now very much considering just waiting for next year. Only problem is I won't have much of an opportunity to improve my app in that time. I graduated 3 years ago so my GPA isn't going to change (3.6 overall, 3.5 for sciences). I've already taken the MCAT 3 times and my best was from my second test (10 8 M 10). I don't want to screw that up anymore that I already have. I feel I have strong letters, a good essay and good ECs. The only thing I think I'm kind of lacking is shadowing experience but I work nearly fulltime and that would be difficult to squeeze in. Plus, I interned and currently work with physicians so I feel that shadowing is kind of pointless. So is it still worth it to wait the year? Also, why have the app. deadline be December 1st if it is pretty much pointless to apply after September?

I think it is an anachronism of sorts. Maybe it had some relevance when the MCAT was only offered a couple of dates per year? Regardless, the competition is such today that a primary app submitted after say September 1 is late, and after October 1 is really late.

Get at least some shadowing in. You say you have good ECs - like what? And as importantly, when did you do them? Recency of ECs is important.

Also, understand that the expectation is you will have volunteer experiences - if you work in a medical environment, then volunteer somewhere else - but volunteering is an unwritten requirement, even for folks with full time jobs. Kill 2 birds with one stone and volunteer a couple of hours a week at a free clinic.

 

[Perrotfish]

Also, why have the app. deadline be December 1st if it is pretty much pointless to apply after September?

At least partially because the admissions process is a huge moneymaker for schools and they're happy to let you throw your money away even if there are basically no spots left.

 

[JohnZoidberg]

My ECs are as follows:

100 hr. internship at a morgue 2.5 yrs ago

~170 hrs. volunteering in a hospital waiting area for guests of surgery pts. That ended about a year ago

One month volunteering abroad on a school/farm for kids with special needs about 2 yrs ago

I still volunteer at a church one Sunday a month as a musician and have been for about 8 yrs.

I played on the college lacrosse team (rest assured, I'm not an a**) and in the band 3 yrs ago

I currently work as a hospital technician with lots of pt. contact and have been for about 1.5 yrs.

I'm a certified personal trainer (again, not an a** though), did that for a year and taught ski lessons out west for four seasons before that

 

[fred213]

Another anecdote from this cycle: VCU is now scheduling interviews for February...

yeah, for students they don't care to interview until then. bet they're still offering october interviews to students they'd like to interview in october. do you really think they accidentally filled up all their interview spots?

from Drexel's FAQ:
"2. Does taking the September MCAT hurt my chances of being offered an interview?
No. However, taking the MCAT in September will delay review of your application."

delayed review does not equal increased competition.

last MCAT scores don't come out until October 13. students completing on Oct 14 are not at a disadvantage.

and if you really think drexel med is lying to you to get another $75, well...

 

[AlexMorph]

don't apply. waste of money.

 

[flip26]

yeah, for students they don't care to interview until then. bet they're still offering october interviews to students they'd like to interview in october. do you really think they accidentally filled up all their interview spots?

from Drexel's FAQ:
"2. Does taking the September MCAT hurt my chances of being offered an interview?
No. However, taking the MCAT in September will delay review of your application."

delayed review does not equal increased competition.

last MCAT scores don't come out until October 13. students completing on Oct 14 are not at a disadvantage.

and if you really think drexel med is lying to you to get another $75, well...

Read the VCU thread. Learn something from the people who are actually in the game.

As for your conclusion that "delayed review does not equal increased competition," you are profoundly wrong, but go ahead, knock yourself out.

 

[dru2002]

yeah, for students they don't care to interview until then. bet they're still offering october interviews to students they'd like to interview in october. do you really think they accidentally filled up all their interview spots?

from Drexel's FAQ:
"2. Does taking the September MCAT hurt my chances of being offered an interview?
No. However, taking the MCAT in September will delay review of your application."

delayed review does not equal increased competition.

last MCAT scores don't come out until October 13. students completing on Oct 14 are not at a disadvantage.

and if you really think drexel med is lying to you to get another $75, well...

Dude! Really!? From http://www.amsa.org/premed/premedguide/applying.cfm

APPLY EARLY! And when we say early, we mean turning your AMCAS or AACOMAS in by the end of June (the earlier the better, but no need to FedEx it or anything and do NOT submit it before June 1st) and returning your secondaries within 2 weeks of receiving them. We know that you have heard this a million times before, but it is one of the most important elements of the application process.

Then a few bullets lower:

APPLY EARLY!

and a few more bullets lower:

APPLY EARLY!

Do you really think that American Medical Student Association is spreading lies?

If you have great stats yes you can apply late and get into medical school. But, if you have average to marginal stats it becomes increasingly difficult. VCU is running out of interview spots and NYMC is now scheduling for December interview spots. You think in a month they are going to have very many interview spots available?

 

[Myuu]

yeah, for students they don't care to interview until then. bet they're still offering october interviews to students they'd like to interview in october. do you really think they accidentally filled up all their interview spots?

from Drexel's FAQ:
"2. Does taking the September MCAT hurt my chances of being offered an interview?
No. However, taking the MCAT in September will delay review of your application."

delayed review does not equal increased competition.

last MCAT scores don't come out until October 13. students completing on Oct 14 are not at a disadvantage.

and if you really think drexel med is lying to you to get another $75, well...

Are they non-rolling? If they're not, do you really think they somehow magically have just as many interview spots to give away in October as they did in June?

 

[BlueElmo]

Why not submit the AMCAS ASAP and not wait until the end of this month, then I think you would still be okay. Of course it's late, but not the end of thr world, especially for non-rolling schools.

 

[halekulani]

I'm planning on submitting my AMCAS app. by the end of this month. I my academic stats are on the lower end of the acceptance bell curve but I have great work/volunteer experience and many extracurriculars. Am I too late?

ECs will not make up for a low gpa or late application
save your money by NOT applying

 

[fred213]

Read the VCU thread. Learn something from the people who are actually in the game.

ok. so is VCU accidentally full, or merely prioritizing? from the thread:

I wonder if the available interview slots you are permitted to sign up for are based on your review score?
I find it very strange that they are full this early in the game.
When I was signing up some people on this thread said they could only sign up in January or later when I could choose from Oct-March.

Weird.

So i scheduled this morning and the only dates were for january....? i signed up anyway. it must have something to do with how you compare to others...like some kind of score or something. right? since people above signed up for october.....

it isn't "Weird." it's exactly what you'd expect. interviews (and thus acceptances) based more on the intrinsic qualities of the applicant than on their 'application complete' date.

JohnZoidberg, you seem like a reasonable applicant with ECs indicating a good understanding of what you're getting into, and your mcat and gpa aren't going to magically improve in 6 months. i can't imagine medical schools wouldn't prefer you over an applicant who applied june 1 with no real understanding of the field.

why wait?

 

[fred213]

Are they non-rolling? If they're not, do you really think they somehow magically have just as many interview spots to give away in October as they did in June?

drexel's rolling.

you are all looking at this too statistically. you are all too focused on ranking yourself against all the other applicants and seeking an advantage.

there are fewer interview spots later in the season, no doubt. but the standards for getting access to those spots can't change significantly.

this is not a numbers game. this is not about being in the 60% percentile and trying for a little boost by applying early. there are far too many applicants for the spots, at every school. no one scoots by on luck or scores or application date. this is an affirmative process. you are chosen for an interview because you are you, not because you applied earlier than someone else.

sure applying late might get you reviewed later, and might make for some waitlist stress, but we are literally months and months and months away from finalizing class lists.

the only way to get into medical school is to find a school that wants you, and if a medical school wants you, then there will be space for you. even as late as october.

 

[dw2158]

drexel's rolling.

you are all looking at this too statistically. you are all too focused on ranking yourself against all the other applicants and seeking an advantage.

there are fewer interview spots later in the season, no doubt. but the standards for getting access to those spots can't change significantly.

this is not a numbers game. this is not about being in the 60% percentile and trying for a little boost by applying early. there are far too many applicants for the spots, at every school. no one scoots by on luck or scores or application date. this is an affirmative process. you are chosen for an interview because you are you, not because you applied earlier than someone else.

sure applying late might get you reviewed later, and might make for some waitlist stress, but we are literally months and months and months away from finalizing class lists.

the only way to get into medical school is to find a school that wants you, and if a medical school wants you, then there will be space for you. even as late as october.

just chiming in to agree with everyone else-- you are incorrect.

as far as "if a medical school wants you, then there will be space for you" bit... tell that to a reapplicant who got rejected from everywhere the first time when they applied in the fall, but had success when they applied the following spring/summer.

 

[Myuu]

drexel's rolling.

you are all looking at this too statistically. you are all too focused on ranking yourself against all the other applicants and seeking an advantage.

there are fewer interview spots later in the season, no doubt. but the standards for getting access to those spots can't change significantly.

this is not a numbers game. this is not about being in the 60% percentile and trying for a little boost by applying early. there are far too many applicants for the spots, at every school. no one scoots by on luck or scores or application date. this is an affirmative process. you are chosen for an interview because you are you, not because you applied earlier than someone else.

sure applying late might get you reviewed later, and might make for some waitlist stress, but we are literally months and months and months away from finalizing class lists.

the only way to get into medical school is to find a school that wants you, and if a medical school wants you, then there will be space for you. even as late as october.

Have you ever applied to med school before?

just chiming in to agree with everyone else-- you are incorrect.

as far as "if a medical school wants you, then there will be space for you" bit... tell that to a reapplicant who got rejected from everywhere the first time when they applied in the fall, but had success when they applied the following spring/summer.

Did that once. Not pleasant. Not one bit.

 

[Compass]

For the record, my secondaries were submitted August 18th, and I have yet to get any interview invites nor a plethora of rejections.

 

[Myuu]

For the record, my secondaries were submitted August 18th, and I have yet to get any interview invites nor a plethora of rejections.

Mid-August is fine. Mid-October is a problem, especially if you don't have outstanding stats. 🙁

 

[Contrarian]

Mid-August is fine. Mid-October is a problem. 🙁

when would you say it becomes too late to interview?

 

[Myuu]

when would you say it becomes too late to interview?

That really depends on the strength of your application. If you're a phenomenal applicant with great numbers, lots of clinical experience, strong leadership skills, and a cure for cancer/aids/debilitatingspinalinjuries, you could probably submit in October and still get interviews, though probably not as many as you would have if the app was submitted in June, July, or August. If your goal is just to get an interview and hopefully an acceptance to a med school, you'd be fine.

If on the other hand, you really want to apply to med school but are on the complete other side of the bell curve, it's an enormous waste of money.

 

[Food]

Have you ever applied to med school before?



Did that once. Not pleasant. Not one bit.

You were a re-applicant?

 

[Contrarian]

That really depends on the strength of your application. If you're a phenomenal applicant with great numbers, lots of clinical experience, strong leadership skills, and a cure for cancer/aids/debilitatingspinalinjuries, you could probably submit in October and still get interviews, though probably not as many as you would have if the app was submitted in June, July, or August. If your goal is just to get an interview and hopefully an acceptance to a med school, you'd be fine.

If on the other hand, you really want to apply to med school but are on the complete other side of the bell curve, it's an enormous waste of money.

sorry, I phrased my question poorly. I was wondering when would be considered a "late" interview. I still haven't heard from some schools that I've been complete at for a few weeks, so I'm thinking if I do get invites from them the earliest I would be able to interview is November. I'm wondering if that's still a decent position to be in.

 

[Compass]

My train of thought forgot the last two trains.

To put it in perspective, I submitted my secondaries LAST year around this time. I ended up getting rejected in April/May simply because they had never reached my file.

 

[Myuu]

You were a re-applicant?

Correct!

sorry, I phrased my question poorly. I was wondering when would be considered a "late" interview. I still haven't heard from some schools that I've been complete at for a few weeks, so I'm thinking if I do get invites from them the earliest I would be able to interview is November. I'm wondering if that's still a decent position to be in.

Ahh, well, the school that accepted me didn't interview me until December.👍 Several of the others have mentioned interviews from all over the spectrum. I'd be worried about scheduling March/April+ interviews, though. That's usually a bad sign...

 

[Contrarian]

Excellent, so look for interviews before the end of the year.

 

[Myuu]

Excellent, so look for interviews before the end of the year.

Yeah, people generally start panicking around January. Later interviews can also work out well, though! Just beware of the Feb/March ones that seem like they might exclusively be for the waitlist. You'll have advanced notice from either the school or people here about that, though.👍

 

[Contrarian]

cool, thanks for the low-down.

 

[Food]

Correct!


Ahh, well, the school that accepted me didn't interview me until December.👍 Several of the others have mentioned interviews from all over the spectrum. I'd be worried about scheduling March/April+ interviews, though. That's usually a bad sign...

Hm...I think you've blocked PMs? I wanted to know more about your story and strategy for re-applying, as well as why it didn't work out the first time. I'm a re-applicant as well, so...it helps to hear what other people went through.

 

[Myuu]

Hm...I think you've blocked PMs? I wanted to know more about your story and strategy for re-applying, as well as why it didn't work out the first time. I'm a re-applicant as well, so...it helps to hear what other people went through.

You can block PMs?? Weird! I'll PM you, then. But it might not be for a couple of days.😳

 

[Birdsbeak]

My train of thought forgot the last two trains.

To put it in perspective, I submitted my secondaries LAST year around this time. I ended up getting rejected in April/May simply because they had never reached my file.

I have always been told that submitting secondaries now is "on time." Submitting secondaries any later than now, as in October, and you are late. Anything before now is "early."

 

[Myuu]

I have always been told that submitting secondaries now is "on time." Submitting secondaries any later than now, as in October, and you are late. Anything before now is "early."

It's pushing it. I'd say August is on time. September is pushing it. October is reeeeeeeally pushing it.

 

[Food]

You can block PMs?? Weird! I'll PM you, then. But it might not be for a couple of days.😳

Okay, thanks. Yeah, when I click your name I can't see a "send a PM" option. Strange.

 

[Contrarian]

Okay, thanks. Yeah, when I click your name I can't see a "send a PM" option. Strange.

maybe it's your probationary status? I see that option.

 

[BlueElmo]

maybe it's your probationary status? I see that option.

I see it too.

 

[Food]

maybe it's your probationary status? I see that option.

No, it's working now. Must have been some kind of glitch.

 

[Myuu]

No, it's working now. Must have been some kind of glitch.

Sometimes some of the images on the page don't load. I noticed that more with the map of smilies and the multiquote button than anything.

 

[dw2158]

compass and myuu, i had no idea you guys were reapplicants. coolio! good luck, compass...