I noticed that the PGY-1 positions increased from 335 in 2000 to 525 in 2006(>50%) according to the data from NRMP. No other specialties have this kind of expansion. Could this be due to the change of pathology resident training from 5 years to 4 years which leads to more recruitment for each program? Currently, the job market for pathologist is fine, but does the pathology practice need so many extra pathologists in the near future?
too many new pathology residents?
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No. The practice does not need so many extra pathologists in the near future....simple supply and demand my friend...Pathologists tend to be individuals that will sit at a scope until death comes a knocking ...not one of those "put in my 20 and I'm out" kind of jobs. Although, I have not seen statistics on whether or not babyboomers are hitting that retirement age (maybe Havarti knows some numbers) I can only hope this new upswing in acquiring new future pathologists won't overwhelm the market.
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According to USCAP, the increase is justified by an expected increase in available positions. I don't buy it, but what do I know.
Apparently, there were supposed to be a lot of retirements about 5-10 years ago which didn't happen, so I think there will be quite a few retirements over the next few years - not everyone can work until they are 80.
Apparently, there were supposed to be a lot of retirements about 5-10 years ago which didn't happen, so I think there will be quite a few retirements over the next few years - not everyone can work until they are 80.
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One possibility for the difference is that back in 2000 pathology was a lot less competetive. Back then many spots were filled outside the match and thus never went through the NRMP. I heard that there were even some programs that would fill all of their spots outside the match and thus submitted 0 spots to NRMP. This might account for some of the difference. MAybe ACGME data would be more accurate.
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The single biggest mistake in Pathology since allowing dermies to sit for dermpath boards with only 1 year of path....God help us.
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Yeah, but they were still listed (i.e. accredited) through ACGME, and reported as such on the NRMP. I think the numbers are accurate. Maybe I'm wrong though, but I thought there were a lot more spots given over the recent years. Programs that had surg path spots sometimes used the spot previously reserved for a surg path fellow (i.e. credentialing fifth year) and created a new residency spot instead.
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Because we shortened the training from 5 years to 4 and people feel justified in keeping the same Number of total residents.
And programs use residents as a workforce rather than getting PAs.
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WHY? Because academic pathology actually financially benefits from dicking over community MDs.
Not only do more residents fatten the bottom line of departments by just sitting there (see my post on the how financially sweet their deal truly is) but leads to more people having to do fellowships due to the saturated job market. The saturated job market itself is a good financial situation for academia because that leads to more turnover in the community, which leads to more inexperience pathologists at the scope which in turn leads to...guess what...more consults for academic services! As long as academia can keep compensation for private docs around their urban centers low, they can stymie competition: their arch-nemesis.
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In Path, you can work beyond 80. I personally know some.
As long as you still can see and sit.(big difference from procedure based specialties) Path used to be a foreign legion, just like Anaesthesia until recent years. More and more american kids want to do it b/c $$ and life style. I think the job market will be saturated pretty soon, with more residency slots and shorter training time. You still can find a job, but it will take longer and you may go to some place you don't like.
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After residency I would like to be able to work in my home state (michigan). I like everything I have heard about path, except the fact that I may not be able to work in the state of my choosing. Is this really something I should be worrying about?
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If you went to maybe like 4-5 top programs maybe not, otherwise yes. Seriously tho, the job situation is by far the biggest no1 detraction from path. Other things like declining reimbursements, %progressing to collections, payer negotiations, hospital contract negotiations and personnel are the same for something like radiology or nuclear medicine (path's sister fields).
The source of this problem is purely an academic one, so direct your anger there....oh wait, someone in UWashington already did!~
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Well I checked the ACGME website and got these numbers. In 2000-2001 there were 2163 filled pathology positions, and five years, so 2163/5 is 432 spots per year. In 2006-2007 there were 2326 filled pathology positions, and four years, so 2326/4 is 582 spots per year. It went from 432 spots per year in 2000-2001 to 582 spot per year in 2006-2007. That's an increase of 35% .
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Well I checked the ACGME website and got these numbers. In 2000-2001 there were 2163 filled pathology positions, and five years, so 2163/5 is 432 spots per year. In 2006-2007 there were 2326 filled pathology positions, and four years, so 2326/4 is 582 spots per year. It went from 432 spots per year in 2000-2001 to 582 spot per year in 2006-2007. That's an increase of 35%
Seriously, the decision makers in Path had a choice to make: either choose a few meesely bucks in their pocket or the health and well being of the entire profession. Pathology can be paradise, but academia instead decided to take the 30 pieces of silver, squat and crap right on our little piece of heaven.
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Well I checked the ACGME website and got these numbers. In 2000-2001 there were 2163 filled pathology positions, and five years, so 2163/5 is 432 spots per year. In 2006-2007 there were 2326 filled pathology positions, and four years, so 2326/4 is 582 spots per year. It went from 432 spots per year in 2000-2001 to 582 spot per year in 2006-2007. That's an increase of 35%
Wait a minute - when did the programs go from 4 to five years. If it occurred between 2001 and 2006, then the numbers are a bit skewed upwards for 2006/2007. For instance, if the change occurred in, say, 2003, then the 2006/2007 numbers should be divided by something like 4.5, not 4.
Judd
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Last year, the 5th year residents were the last ones who where required to do a 5th year. So there shouldn't be any PGY-5 pathology "residents" for 2006-2007.
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Well I checked the ACGME website and got these numbers. In 2000-2001 there were 2163 filled pathology positions, and five years, so 2163/5 is 432 spots per year. In 2006-2007 there were 2326 filled pathology positions, and four years, so 2326/4 is 582 spots per year. It went from 432 spots per year in 2000-2001 to 582 spot per year in 2006-2007. That's an increase of 35%
That is a rough estimate, but it fails because the number of residents is not equal by year. And the 5 year estimate is less accurate than the 4.
Back when AP/CP was 5 years there were:
AP only 3 years
CP only 3 years
People who did post softmore fellowship, and then didn't need the 5th year.
People who did a Internship in something other than pathology
People who did a non-boarded fellowship for their 5th year.
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Why? He isn't a pathologist, and they almost never had a pathologist on the show.
In fact House and his crew act they do all the work in pathology, they are always in the lab and looking at slides.
Of course half of the shots have the Pathology lab in the back ground. How can you tell? They have a huge neon sign that says "PATHOLOGY".
