Too nerdy for PT?

[Dano3000]

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Hi all,

Cutting to the chase - I have long been interested in physical therapy as a career, and more recently interested in how applications of math, physics, and engineering can quantitatively describe injury, the musculoskeletal system, and the possible clinical benefits these applications may provide to practitioners and patients.
This recent interest has cast doubt on whether PT school is the right place for me. Queries for research in the field have also left me wanting. I believe that PT's have a truly unique understanding of the human body, but to date most of the (publicly viewable) research I have been able to find tends to do with whether it is effective at all, and if so, to what extent. I have been unable to find much about the academic content of PT school in general.
I want to practice as a PT. However, I also want to research the human musculoskeletal system and explain it with concepts that are not prerequisites for PT school (calculus based physics comes to mind). I know that PT school will cover the former, but if that is all it will do then I feel I will have made a mistake.
Should I stay the course? Can PT school enable one to engage in these types of pursuits? Should I switch degrees?

Any input/insights will be greatly appreciated!

 

[swolecat]

You can do whatever you want when you're done with school. You're not going to use any math in PT school but I can't see how it could hurt in courses like kinesiology. If you have a novel and interesting way of explaining human movement then write a book or something duh

 

[kcrat21]

There are lots of PTs who get their degree and then go on to get PhDs in a variety of topics such as those you have mentioned. Just take a look into UNC's movement science PhD for starters.

EDIT: Or look up Robert J Butler out of Duke. He does a lot of physics based PT research.

 

[DesertPT]

Agree with above that you will probably need a PhD to do what you want to do. The DPT is a clinical doctorate.

 

[starrsgirl]

Agree, I would look at a phd in biomechanics (possibly engineering focused). I'm not sure I would do a DPT.

 

[engmedpt]

Biomedical Engineering with an eye towards working in industry creating prosthetics and orthotics or new body parts for movement and function. You can go directly into industry for that with a bachelors or a more competitive masters (if you reeeeally have to). PhD specifically in biomedical engineering is a possibility in many places. Not sure, but I assume it would be much more math and physics intensive research rather than clinical research in a movement disorder PhD (clinical research vs bench research basically mean working with a patient population vs not working with a patient population from my understanding).

You would design equipment that veterans and car crash injured people would use and the physical therapists work with them to strengthen their bodies and get used to the devices. I saw it in acute care.

 

[engmedpt]

DPT is the clinical part. You wont be doing calculations outside of stats for the company I assume.

If you want some manipulation, teaching and instruction, one on one relationships, and small steps for goal setting coupled with writing out and explaining the exercise plan for patients then get a DPT.

 

[Ibby33]

Biomedical Engineering with an eye towards working in industry creating prosthetics and orthotics or new body parts for movement and function. You can go directly into industry for that with a bachelors or a more competitive masters (if you reeeeally have to). PhD specifically in biomedical engineering is a possibility in many places. Not sure, but I assume it would be much more math and physics intensive research rather than clinical research in a movement disorder PhD (clinical research vs bench research basically mean working with a patient population vs not working with a patient population from my understanding).

You would design equipment that veterans and car crash injured people would use and the physical therapists work with them to strengthen their bodies and get used to the devices. I saw it in acute care.

Yes, it sounds like you might me more interested in Biomedical engineering. I studied this in undergrad. Engmedpt is right, you could use bioengineering to design medical/orthotic type devices, where a clinical dpt still might be practical. There has also been a lot of work done in tissue-scale mechanics, which sounds more like what you might be interested in (describing mechanical properties of muscles, scar tissue, etc). Take a look at Fung's "Biomechanics: mechanical properties of living tissues" for an intro 🙂

 

[engmedpt]

^Congrats on getting through that coursework. It's a rough major.

 

[jjjDPT]

I would do a DPT/PhD program and do research for a university AND be able to treat patients. More options, more fun.

 

[AlanWattsBlues]

Orthotics and Prosthetics can become a pretty cut-throat business from what I understand, so I would tend to avoid that unless it was my life's deepest passion:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...thetist-orthotist-programs-profession.640914/​

Also, I don't think that making good O&P products is like German engineering. More like master carpentry. A useful and beautiful skill, but not requiring calculus-based physics.

As you describe your research interest, it does seem to be a bit more academic than clinically oriented. Being an academic (to me) seems horrible. PhD's take forever to get, and at the end of it you might be fighting 500 others for a job in the middle of nowhere. But some people love living the life of the mind....

If you can get into PT school at a reasonable cost and this is your area of interest, I think an argument can be made that you would be better off pursuing PT (and maybe pursuing an additional area of study once you're practicing). It's stable work, you'll learn a great deal about anatomy and how people need help. You might be able to do some research afterward if that's more your thing (though loans might make that difficult).

Are you going along a computer science track currently? If you really want to do quality modeling of movement, video game designers (and golf pro shops) are probably going to be pushing the boundaries more than research PhDs:

​

I've been assisting with some research using a kinect-based game to help with rehab of patients after a stroke. It's left me pretty jaded about research in general and convinced me that this technology is nowhere close to being clinically useful. But in the next 5 years, with the imminent explosion of VR, high-quality/low-cost motion tracking, and various physical input devices, this is going to be important.

But once the technology is there (likely coming from video games and not PhDs), who is going to be using it clinically to help people?

EDIT: the nimble vr team mentioned above (now with oculus) is filled with PhDs...so what do I know?

 

[engmedpt]

As you describe your research interest, it does seem to be a bit more academic than clinically oriented. Being an academic (to me) seems horrible. PhD's take forever to get, and at the end of it you might be fighting 500 others for a job in the middle of nowhere. But some people love living the life of the mind....

This is incredibly on point. A family member is a biochemist currently. It is a crazy job hunt and maintenance for grants currently. The struggle for tenure can diminish teaching abilities and lead to frustrated students. Trust me....I'm finishing my bachelors at a research university after having taken 15 labs before I start my program in august. Foreign TAs do the work, many professors are never available. ugh.

I like to say this a lot...because it was the only way I could get things together.


Make a spreadsheet of the things you value for the professions in columns....MAKE SURE to include opportunity costs and debt to income ratios. Come up with a subjective 1-10 value system and rank the paths in each section (unless you have a category that would take the cake and doesn't need a number). When you are done, narrow the careers down to about two and then dig....find all the pros and cons and see if that balance is what you want. You can't have everything, but you can have something that is best for you.

Hope this helps =)

 

[atcdpt]

Northwestern university has a dual dpt/phd in engineering that might interest you. Check it out!

 

[jesspt]

You can do whatever you want when you're done with school. You're not going to use any math in PT school but I can't see how it could hurt in courses like kinesiology. If you have a novel and interesting way of explaining human movement then write a book or something duh

What?

 

[engmedpt]

What?

Don't engage.

 

[ptisfun2]

This is incredibly on point. A family member is a biochemist currently. It is a crazy job hunt and maintenance for grants currently. The struggle for tenure can diminish teaching abilities and lead to frustrated students.

An academic life is really no more challenging than a clinical life....different stressors, and priorities, but ultimately no more difficult. A PT clinician with a PhD is enviable for those without those combined credentials in faculty positions. There are not enough to fill the open positions right now. A PhD in biomechanics or biomed engineering with a clinical degree would be insanely marketable (as long as you have some clinical experience), and especially with biomed eng fundable. I have a handful of students who are interested in PhD. I tell them finish their DPT, go practice for at least 2 years to get clinical experience, and then see where you are then. PTs 'leave' the profession all of the time, so a PhD may be completely out of anything related to PT (History). And that is cool too...

 

[NewTestament]

A PhD in biomechanics or biomed engineering with a clinical degree would be insanely marketable (as long as you have some clinical experience), and especially with biomed eng fundable.

But that would be insanely hard. Your best option might be to get a BS in bioengineering and then go to PT school. Forget the PhD. I don't see any evidence that a PhD leads to higher pay. But bioengineering and physical therapy are going to see a huge demand in the upcoming years.

 

[ptisfun2]

But that would be insanely hard. Your best option might be to get a BS in bioengineering and then go to PT school. Forget the PhD. I don't see any evidence that a PhD leads to higher pay. But bioengineering and physical therapy are going to see a huge demand in the upcoming years.

My pay as a faculty member is markedly higher than I would make clinically as a full time employee. Not even close.

 

[DesertPT]

My pay as a faculty member is markedly higher than I would make clinically as a full time employee. Not even close.

How much does this depend on experience? I always thought assistant professor pay would be similar to clinician pay and go up as you go to associate professor, full professor, etc.

 

[ptisfun2]

How much does this depend on experience? I always thought assistant professor pay would be similar to clinician pay and go up as you go to associate professor, full professor, etc.

Depends on a lot....school plays a big role I imagine.

My Assistant Professor salary was equal to a clinician with my experience (about 15 years). The hours are probably a bit more for a new faculty vs. experienced clinician, so maybe less in the grand scheme of things. And dealing with patients vs. students? Depends on the day 🙂

 

[engmedpt]

An academic life is really no more challenging than a clinical life....different stressors, and priorities, but ultimately no more difficult. A PT clinician with a PhD is enviable for those without those combined credentials in faculty positions. There are not enough to fill the open positions right now. A PhD in biomechanics or biomed engineering with a clinical degree would be insanely marketable (as long as you have some clinical experience), and especially with biomed eng fundable. I have a handful of students who are interested in PhD. I tell them finish their DPT, go practice for at least 2 years to get clinical experience, and then see where you are then. PTs 'leave' the profession all of the time, so a PhD may be completely out of anything related to PT (History). And that is cool too...

This is probably accurate. Different PhD.

For pure science PhDs right now tho.....chemistry, biology, physics, biochemistry..........😱

....as for the history and women's studies....starbucks will still be there 6 years later.

 

[DesertPT]

And dealing with patients vs. students? Depends on the day 🙂

Ha!