Again it all come to individual not a group as a whole so it will depend person to person and program to program. Do you have clinical director for each rotation and not sure how he/she control educational quality control and what kind of leverage your school has when you are not doing your rotations at your home base?
Top 3 Things you wish IMG's would change about themselves
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I went to Ireland (Trinity College). I'm now about halfway done with an ER residency in NYC. If you're looking for ways to overcome things that have been said in previous posts, the thing I'd recommend most is something that will be needed for applying here in the US anyway - get as many clinical rotations or subinternships in the US as you can. Then you can see how things are presented in rounds, how people pre-round, how people chart or order and it makes your life easier when you become a resident.
Coming back over, probably the thing you'll have to get used to the most is the change in medication names, but that takes all of like...1 week to master and people should know generic names anyway. Other than that, things I quickly learned were little things like they don't use buscopan in this country (a shame!) and they seem to use wide bore ngts in everyone, both for feeding and decompression.
It's probably a little different for me because I'm a US IMG and I don't have an accent so some people might not view that I was foreign-trained. But what's gotten me ahead most is my enthusiasm for learning, helping, and working - this is something I thought every one of us would have but it's surprisingly turned out not to be the case. So having a great attitude / personality / proficiency is more important than where you trained.
Oh, and reading up on things that US grads might be more proficient in (EKGs / imaging) helps too.
Coming back over, probably the thing you'll have to get used to the most is the change in medication names, but that takes all of like...1 week to master and people should know generic names anyway. Other than that, things I quickly learned were little things like they don't use buscopan in this country (a shame!) and they seem to use wide bore ngts in everyone, both for feeding and decompression.
It's probably a little different for me because I'm a US IMG and I don't have an accent so some people might not view that I was foreign-trained. But what's gotten me ahead most is my enthusiasm for learning, helping, and working - this is something I thought every one of us would have but it's surprisingly turned out not to be the case. So having a great attitude / personality / proficiency is more important than where you trained.
Oh, and reading up on things that US grads might be more proficient in (EKGs / imaging) helps too.
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I trained in NYC.
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I think relapse was asking where you went to medical school; which was outside of the US as you've mentioned frequently before, including this thread.
great post leorl, thanks for the advice. As a US IMG myself, its at best wishful thinking that I will land a spot in any residency without proper and adequate training.
IYHO, through your trials and tribulations in residency, looking back, what were some of the primary problems you encountered as an IMG integrating back into your system and how was it that you dealt with them?
Retrospectively, is there anything that you would have changed or would like to have been better prepared for upon entering July 1st?
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Ross.
Every time I hear the answer "I trained in NYC", I know it's Ross. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it seems to be the immediate response I heard from Ross students when anyone asked where they went to school.
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The main trial is that because you're an FMG, doors are automatically closed to you. Even if you apply widely, you will not get as many interviews as other people because some programs won't even entertain the thought of FMGs. Do your research when applying so you don't end up wasting money. This is specialty-dependent and applies mainly if you're going to be submitting to more competitive specialties.
I honestly didn't have any problems integrating that I can think is attributable to being an IMG. As I said before, it took me a little while to get used to medication terminology or the way lab values were reported (people thought I was an idiot for not realizing CO2 on a BMP means HCO3, I still don't get it and I still think it's a really stupid way of abbreviating bicarb). Also, some things I didn't have that much experience in procedure-wise, like suturing or pelvic exams. Fortunately, I'd gotten practice doing pelvics during one of my ER rotations and in suturing, I wasn't the only one who had little experience and learned from people who did prelim surgery years help me out. Also, I think I was a bit weak on my ophthalmology, but again, there are not that many people who are proficient in it.
The main things which would have prepared me better have nothing to do with being an IMG. I should have learned spanish at some point.
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Reminds me of one of my former Chiefs. She went to medical school in the states, at UCLA, and she never failed to talk about "where I trained" referring of course to UCLA.
I thought it was weird since we all know residency training is where you actually learn how to be a physician. Plus it was like hearing someone talk about an old boyfriend - I felt like asking her if she had done anything since leaving.
But, I've seen that answer commonly from IMGs...referring to their training in the US rather than abroad.
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When I was an intern (the second time), one of my classmates mentioned that one day - about how people were faux modest when they said they trained "in New Haven". He would then effect the same accent when he said we were training "in Durham".
I'm not Ross, but SGU, and I say that I did my first 2 years in the Caribbean, and then 3 years in New York (and, if pressed, I'll say that the third year was an intern year in Queens), then 3 years in North Carolina, then in practice 3 years in South Carolina. As it is now, though, the people don't care much. The Samoan guy this evening nearly fell off his chair laughing when I greeted him and his family in Samoan, then called myself the "palonghi" (white) guy.
I'm not Ross, but SGU, and I say that I did my first 2 years in the Caribbean, and then 3 years in New York (and, if pressed, I'll say that the third year was an intern year in Queens), then 3 years in North Carolina, then in practice 3 years in South Carolina. As it is now, though, the people don't care much. The Samoan guy this evening nearly fell off his chair laughing when I greeted him and his family in Samoan, then called myself the "palonghi" (white) guy.
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Perhaps so. As I stated before however, I hardly consider the basic sciences as 'medial training'. If that was the case....any college kid with a science major is in medical training.
I went to Ross. This is why I was commenting on the prejudice attitudes toward FMG/IMG. Do you really think they are saying, "well, you didn't study biochem,physiology,genetics,histology,neurology etc...in the U.S. so you really are at a disadvantage?
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The only way to distinguish an IMG from an AMG on first impression is whether or not they have an accent. Otherwise, nobody knows...
Wrong. An IMG is an American who went to school outside of the US. An FMG is a non-American who has come to America after having completed medical school in another country.
I don't know about the schools in the caribbean but the schools in india don't teach any of those subjects. "Teaching" here involves coyping the material word for word from the book and then pasting it onto a word document / power point projected onto a screen and "taught" for hours.
The advantage is the fact that the U.S. medical students have Notes and Outlines that are given to them which consolidate the vast amount of material that is presented before them.
Another major difference is that the teachers in the U.S. hold very high academic degrees, even PH.Ds where as the teachers at our school were the f***ups that couldn't make it here.
Teaching involves not reading two lines but reading in between them.
The advantage is the fact that the U.S. medical students have Notes and Outlines that are given to them which consolidate the vast amount of material that is presented before them.
Another major difference is that the teachers in the U.S. hold very high academic degrees, even PH.Ds where as the teachers at our school were the f***ups that couldn't make it here.
Teaching involves not reading two lines but reading in between them.
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No offense, but looks like you went to a pretty bad school... yeah we have many of those around here... particularly the private ones. I go to one of the top 20 schools in the country, its not that bad in here.
I personally totally hate the concept of notes. I studied a lot of notes in 1st year, that is one thing I would like to change if I could go back. I was done with notes after that. Text books (and Reviews in some cases) rule.
That is not the whole truth. There will always be people like that around, but we had the good fortune of having few really passionate and widely published teachers in basic science.
Just my 2 cents.🙂
knockout, unless you read different books than us, I don't see that as a possibility.
Chaurasia for anatomy, satyanarayana for biochem, and LPR for physio aren't medical textbooks; they're vomit.
The time we spend in clinics here are spent observing and not learning anything.
Regarding the teachers, all the teachers exercise authority, but nobody has power.
I don't know whether or not your an IMG but to practice in the U.S., high standards are expected; that of which is not even close to attained from schools here. Mugging up if your lucky maybe gets you to pass the test but beyond that, not much further.
It might be cheaper early on, but in the long run, its an expensive two penny education.
Chaurasia for anatomy, satyanarayana for biochem, and LPR for physio aren't medical textbooks; they're vomit.
The time we spend in clinics here are spent observing and not learning anything.
Regarding the teachers, all the teachers exercise authority, but nobody has power.
I don't know whether or not your an IMG but to practice in the U.S., high standards are expected; that of which is not even close to attained from schools here. Mugging up if your lucky maybe gets you to pass the test but beyond that, not much further.
It might be cheaper early on, but in the long run, its an expensive two penny education.
Please don't say widely published as research here is nonexistent.
How many nobel prizes has india won?🙄
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Going by your attitude, yeah I do think that I read different books than you do 🙂
I am afraid that's your situation, not mine 🙂
There's a buddhist proverb "When the student is ready, the master appears."
I used to think mugging up goes for people who are after notes and not text books.
Enough said. I don't want to be a part of one of those tangential discussions killing a nice thead.
I am afraid that's your situation, not mine 🙂
I doubt if this line makes any sense at all. Anyways, I don't see how it has got anything to do with teaching and learning.
I am sure (not entirely though) that you have heard of other national and international honors and prizes pertaining to the field of clinical and biomedical research. 🙄
There's a buddhist proverb "When the student is ready, the master appears."
no doubt about that
Who said anything about mugging up? 🙂
I used to think mugging up goes for people who are after notes and not text books.
Enough said. I don't want to be a part of one of those tangential discussions killing a nice thead.
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No offense, but looks like you went to a pretty bad school... yeah we have many of those around here... particularly the private ones. I go to one of the top 20 schools in the country, its not that bad in here.
I think that comment of mine might have pissed you off (What was I thinking!). I guess I sounded like a jerk. If it's so then I'm sorry, really, my mistake.
I just want to say that, there are people who think the glass is half full n other who think its half empty. All I'm saying is that I belong to the former.
I think that comment of mine might have pissed you off (What was I thinking!). I guess I sounded like a jerk. If it's so then I'm sorry, really, my mistake.
I just want to say that, there are people who think the glass is half full n other who think its half empty. All I'm saying is that I belong to the former.
Sorry if it seems like I was pissed because I clearly am not. Its just that too many people (natives of India and uncles and aunties back home) assume that an Indian education will land you a spot in residency back home very easily when thats just simply not the case.
I've known people at AIIMS which I was under the assumption was also one of the top 20 medical schools that recently took the USMLE and had failed miserably.
Its not that the teachers here are bad, its just that you can't juxtapose the two systems. Its like comparing apples and oranges.
The Indian system focuses on rote memorization and isn't based on conceptual thinking. Its not possible to get by this way if you want to land a spot at a middle tier residency back in the U.S.
I can't speak for the government schools as I have no exposure, but the private schools are ridden with corruption and the worst crime is that the education system is not spared.
"One man with one eye will always be king in the city of blinds"
I've known people at AIIMS which I was under the assumption was also one of the top 20 medical schools that recently took the USMLE and had failed miserably.
Its not that the teachers here are bad, its just that you can't juxtapose the two systems. Its like comparing apples and oranges.
The Indian system focuses on rote memorization and isn't based on conceptual thinking. Its not possible to get by this way if you want to land a spot at a middle tier residency back in the U.S.
I can't speak for the government schools as I have no exposure, but the private schools are ridden with corruption and the worst crime is that the education system is not spared.
"One man with one eye will always be king in the city of blinds"
Again, the notes consolidate the information written in the textbooks. They are based on conceptual thinking and not presented randomly with no correlation with each other.
If you had read the previous posts/threads regarding this topic, you would appreciate the fact that basic aspects of the USMLE aren't even mentioned with an education from India. (e.g. EKG, CT, MRI, PET, Doppler, Echo, Histopathology, Pathophysiology, Biochemistry, Anatomy, Embryology, etc..)
The only tangential thing I see is your inability to grasp reality given light of the facts. > See Definition: Mediocrity
Arguing that the Indian system doesn't force you to "mug up" the entirety of medicine is like listening to a Blind man arguing with a Deaf man.😉
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Well since you insist to continue this discusion.
Yes I agree that notes consolidate the information written in text books, but IMO a person will become as good a physician as his notes and also I feel a lot can be said about a person from his/her preference for "notes" and apathy for textbooks.
I simply do not understand how you can say that NOTES ARE BASED ON CONCEPTUAL THINKING AND TEXTBOOKS ARE NOT and you want to say that TEXTBOOKS PRESENT INFORMATIONS RANDOMLY WITH NO CORRELATION TO EACH OTHER?!!
I would really like to hear other people's opinion on textbooks like Guytton, Lippincott's Biochem, Robbin's Pathologic Basis of Disease, Harrison's, Schwartz (also views of the Indian students on Chaurasia, IB Singh Embryology, DC Dutta G&O) just to mention a few.
Look frankly speaking if your university curriculum did not stress on EKG, CT, MRI, Echo, Histopathology, Pathophysiology, Biochemistry, Anatomy, Embryology, then I guess my previous comment was pretty justified, and its completely the fault of your university. No wonder if every other day a new private college is coming up and 'somehow' getting accredition from the MCI, then problems like these are bound to happen and students are going to suffer.
About your remark that RESEARCH IS NON-EXISTANT over here, could you please tell me how many of IMCR STS, Science Academie's SRF, JNCASR SRF, JBNSTS, KVPY did you get selected for? Also how many student research conferences and other confernces have you attended?
Besides, what I want to ask you is, if you are so exceptional (as you have so clearly established), why didn't you study these things yourself and why are you whining about these things now. You remind me of the people in my school who have these typical complaints.
For your information, I don't give a rat's ***** about the Indian system here. My point here is that you are trying to project the grave situation at your medical school to the whole system in India, which is totally wrong. Of course there are better and worse things. Moreover the point to note here is, you have allowed yourself to become a victim of this situation and have done practically nothing about it except coming and whining here and you are arguing with me when I am just trying to say that keeping the curriculum in mind, how and what one should study is completely a matter of personal choice.
My advice to you would be what Winston Churchill once said "Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."
Yes I agree that notes consolidate the information written in text books, but IMO a person will become as good a physician as his notes and also I feel a lot can be said about a person from his/her preference for "notes" and apathy for textbooks.
I simply do not understand how you can say that NOTES ARE BASED ON CONCEPTUAL THINKING AND TEXTBOOKS ARE NOT and you want to say that TEXTBOOKS PRESENT INFORMATIONS RANDOMLY WITH NO CORRELATION TO EACH OTHER?!!
I would really like to hear other people's opinion on textbooks like Guytton, Lippincott's Biochem, Robbin's Pathologic Basis of Disease, Harrison's, Schwartz (also views of the Indian students on Chaurasia, IB Singh Embryology, DC Dutta G&O) just to mention a few.
Look frankly speaking if your university curriculum did not stress on EKG, CT, MRI, Echo, Histopathology, Pathophysiology, Biochemistry, Anatomy, Embryology, then I guess my previous comment was pretty justified, and its completely the fault of your university. No wonder if every other day a new private college is coming up and 'somehow' getting accredition from the MCI, then problems like these are bound to happen and students are going to suffer.
About your remark that RESEARCH IS NON-EXISTANT over here, could you please tell me how many of IMCR STS, Science Academie's SRF, JNCASR SRF, JBNSTS, KVPY did you get selected for? Also how many student research conferences and other confernces have you attended?
Besides, what I want to ask you is, if you are so exceptional (as you have so clearly established), why didn't you study these things yourself and why are you whining about these things now. You remind me of the people in my school who have these typical complaints.
For your information, I don't give a rat's ***** about the Indian system here. My point here is that you are trying to project the grave situation at your medical school to the whole system in India, which is totally wrong. Of course there are better and worse things. Moreover the point to note here is, you have allowed yourself to become a victim of this situation and have done practically nothing about it except coming and whining here and you are arguing with me when I am just trying to say that keeping the curriculum in mind, how and what one should study is completely a matter of personal choice.
My advice to you would be what Winston Churchill once said "Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."
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This forum is not for the merits or demerits of IMG/FMG education, or on the pros and cons of certain institutions. Please let the discussion get back on topic or the thread will have to be moved and/or closed. Thanks.
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Thanks smq123 for intervening and rescuing this thread.
However, I would like to request you to to kindly move the last 8 posts in this thread to the India and South Asia forum (if that's possible) because this is an extremely important issue.
And I would also like to point out to the other readers to kindly go through the other posts that both I and relapse have made so as to be able to judge our comments based on our credibility.
However, I would like to request you to to kindly move the last 8 posts in this thread to the India and South Asia forum (if that's possible) because this is an extremely important issue.
And I would also like to point out to the other readers to kindly go through the other posts that both I and relapse have made so as to be able to judge our comments based on our credibility.
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I think context is important.
While you are right that most of the training in medical school is found on the wards, the fact is that when people ask where you did your medical school training, they are inquiring as to what medical school you will be graduating from.
If the OP had asked you where you did your clinical sciences, then it would be appropriate to state that you spent your last two years in NY as a student from Ross, at various clinical sites.
Otherwise, I guess I can say I did my training at UCSF or Hopkins since I did some rotations there as a 4th year student.
😱 Wow, Hopkins? Very nice. 👍Otherwise, I guess I can say I did my training at UCSF or Hopkins since I did some rotations there as a 4th year student.
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OK,
#1. I have seen great Indian docs, and I have seen crappy Indian docs. Similarly, there are great Indian medical schools and crappy ones. You are over-generalizing based on your (very) limited personal experience.
#2. Why, if you are attending an Indian school yourself, do you seem to take so much pleasure in crapping down your colleagues/teachers' throats? Don't you realize that it makes YOU look bad?
#3. If you think it makes you look good and objective, to see the shortcomings of the system, you are mistaken. Because if you know you are attending a crap school, and you are so smart as to be above it all - change the school. After all, being a US citizen you had options many of your fellow classmates don't.
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👍
Well since you insist to continue this discusion.
Yes I agree that notes consolidate the information written in text books, but IMO a person will become as good a physician as his notes and also I feel a lot can be said about a person from his/her preference for "notes" and apathy for textbooks.
I simply do not understand how you can say that NOTES ARE BASED ON CONCEPTUAL THINKING AND TEXTBOOKS ARE NOT and you want to say that TEXTBOOKS PRESENT INFORMATIONS RANDOMLY WITH NO CORRELATION TO EACH OTHER?!!
I would really like to hear other people's opinion on textbooks like Guytton, Lippincott's Biochem, Robbin's Pathologic Basis of Disease, Harrison's, Schwartz (also views of the Indian students on Chaurasia, IB Singh Embryology, DC Dutta G&O) just to mention a few.
Look frankly speaking if your university curriculum did not stress on EKG, CT, MRI, Echo, Histopathology, Pathophysiology, Biochemistry, Anatomy, Embryology, then I guess my previous comment was pretty justified, and its completely the fault of your university. No wonder if every other day a new private college is coming up and 'somehow' getting accredition from the MCI, then problems like these are bound to happen and students are going to suffer.
About your remark that RESEARCH IS NON-EXISTANT over here, could you please tell me how many of IMCR STS, Science Academie's SRF, JNCASR SRF, JBNSTS, KVPY did you get selected for? Also how many student research conferences and other confernces have you attended?
Besides, what I want to ask you is, if you are so exceptional (as you have so clearly established), why didn't you study these things yourself and why are you whining about these things now. You remind me of the people in my school who have these typical complaints.
For your information, I don't give a rat's ***** about the Indian system here. My point here is that you are trying to project the grave situation at your medical school to the whole system in India, which is totally wrong. Of course there are better and worse things. Moreover the point to note here is, you have allowed yourself to become a victim of this situation and have done practically nothing about it except coming and whining here and you are arguing with me when I am just trying to say that keeping the curriculum in mind, how and what one should study is completely a matter of personal choice.
My advice to you would be what Winston Churchill once said "Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."
#1. I have too seen great Indian docs. Never said they were bad. If you paid attention, I was saying IMG's that come out of private schools within India sometimes aren't smart enough to realize that haven't learned sh** for the last 4 years because they came straight out of high school. You are over-rationalizing due to your limited exposure to the world.
#2. The last person I'm trying to impress is you. This is a forum and the truth needs to be spilled out in whatever form that is. Of course I know that makes me look bad, why else would I have been on here. advice.
#3. Due to your limited outlook and lack of comprehension about Indian education system and politics that occur within, I'll save you a lot of money, time, and effort contemplating so you don't have to come to India to see for yourself. Imagine trying to talk. Now imagine that your voice is audible and everybody is hearing what your saying. Now imagine nobody listening.
Pretty much summed it up. 😉
*Note to moderator* this thread was designed to seek advice from current and past students of medical schools that are now in residency dealing with IMG's. As an IMG myself, it is very difficult to ignore the fact that without proper guidance, one will be easily lost on July 1st upon entering. The U.S. system is much different than the one here.
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That's fine, and that's why the thread was initially not moved.
However, as the discussion as evolved, it has become fixated on the negative aspects of IMG education and, specifically, the Indian medical education system. If so, that's part of a new topic. Furthermore, persistent back-and-forth arguing between two posters tends to derail threads and tends to cause the thread to degenerate into fighting. That's why I asked that we get back on topic of how IMGs can adapt to the US system.
If you would like to discuss the specific pros and cons of Indian medical schools, then you can start a new thread in a different forum.
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My dear friend,
In-between personal comments that your post is rife with, you missed the most important point. Let me re-phrase it for you:
As a US citizen who had a choice to go to a US medical school, but instead went to a third-class medical school in India, the main person who is made to look bad by your posts is...YOU. Regardless of the truthfulness of your posts.
Good bye.
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I think context is important.
While you are right that most of the training in medical school is found on the wards, the fact is that when people ask where you did your medical school training, they are inquiring as to what medical school you will be graduating from.
If the OP had asked you where you did your clinical sciences, then it would be appropriate to state that you spent your last two years in NY as a student from Ross, at various clinical sites.
Otherwise, I guess I can say I did my training at UCSF or Hopkins since I did some rotations there as a 4th year student.
Sure, I can say that I went to med school in Southern California ... Which would immediately get people on my case about not specifically mentioning it was a DO school. Not telling people what school you went to is a cop-out.
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Yes WingedScapula, context is important. The fact is that most people don't know the details of Caribbean schools so if they ask me where I train and I simply say 'Ross' then many people assume I have no clinical experience in the US. Again, I hardly think they care where I studied Biochem but are more interested in knowing where I 'trained'. I have no trouble telling people I am from Ross, it's not a 'cop-out' as the other poster mentioned but it's also not fair to us that people incorrectly judge our training as being 'foreign'.
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I'm not trying to start an argument, but last time I checked, Dominica was a foreign country.
I would presume that, on SDN, at the very least, you can presume other students and residents to know what and where Ross is and that the last 2 years are spent in the US. relapse didn't ask you where you trained but rather where you went to medical school. And besides, as we all know, the real training is in residency. I cannot say I've ever heard someone else, when asked where they went to medical school, talk about what state they did their clinical rotations in. Maybe its a Ross thing, as suggested above.
What you choose to tell patients, who may not be so informed, is a different story.
I guess I just don't see the reason to not say you trained at Ross when a med student asks you where you went to medical school. If he doesn't know about Ross, it is the perfect opportunity to clarify and educate, rather than obsfucate. You have nothing to be ashamed of, and unfortunately, it comes off like you feel you do, IMHO. I don't get it.
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3rd and 4th year of med school is hardly "training".
There are a number of ways you can be "honest" about where you went to school. You could say you went to an "offshore American" med school. It seems that term isn't used much nowadays, but it used to be - esp. when there was only about 4 of them. A lot of older docs will know what you're talking about.
If they dont, the puzzling term can prompt the question, which you can answer in a sentence or two. "Its an American school located in the Caribbean. We do two years there, and two years here in the US." Usually, the only question after that is: "that must have been nice, do you get to go back there for your graduation?"
Something else you can do to explain it is to bring up the 1983 invasion of Grenada - one of the missions of which was for the US Marines to rescue the SGU students. You might have been a twinkle in your father's eye that year, but many of your patients will remember that event. They'll even tell you a thing or two about it, and you can round it out with: "so yup, that's basically how it works..."
Try that of for size... use the old term, and/or bring up the invasion of Grenada. The bit of American history always seems to get the patient, and even some old timer docs on your side.
There are a number of ways you can be "honest" about where you went to school. You could say you went to an "offshore American" med school. It seems that term isn't used much nowadays, but it used to be - esp. when there was only about 4 of them. A lot of older docs will know what you're talking about.
If they dont, the puzzling term can prompt the question, which you can answer in a sentence or two. "Its an American school located in the Caribbean. We do two years there, and two years here in the US." Usually, the only question after that is: "that must have been nice, do you get to go back there for your graduation?"
Something else you can do to explain it is to bring up the 1983 invasion of Grenada - one of the missions of which was for the US Marines to rescue the SGU students. You might have been a twinkle in your father's eye that year, but many of your patients will remember that event. They'll even tell you a thing or two about it, and you can round it out with: "so yup, that's basically how it works..."
Try that of for size... use the old term, and/or bring up the invasion of Grenada. The bit of American history always seems to get the patient, and even some old timer docs on your side.
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I find it interesting that you complain that people don't know the details of the US clinical rotations for Ross students, yet they would somehow know enough that Ross was a school in the Carib. Which one is it?
Therefore you are trying to sidestep the perceived stigma associated with Carib schools by telling people you trained in NYC and not mentioning where your school is located. Please. Don't bullsh*t a bullsh*tter.
I've had more than my share of Ross students who, when asked where they went to school, say "Ross" and when asked where that is, without batting an eye will say "New Jersey", because that's where the business office is located. Or like you, will not mention the school at all, and mention they trained in NYC.
Some DO's are like this, too. I see it all the time.
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I am following up on this thread for 3 days now it has started out as a good thread is going down guys....
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Ok, well I thought it was just getting good...
but let's get back to the original topic which was what can IMGs/FMGs do to improve their applications/acceptance in the US.
I think we can agree to add: don't be ashamed of who you are, where you trained, your shortcomings (if any) be honest and we'll respect you for it
I thought it was just getting good too😉 I'm behind you WS, people should definitely be honest about where they went.
If someone asks me, I'll be glad to say I went to medical school in India and openly let them know about the shortcomings about going there.
In my mind, if anything, after the first minute of "oh god, they must have no clue what were talking about," they will understand by the knowledge we can contribute (if any) and let them know that it was even harder to get back into the system than many people can imagine.
I have some friends in the Carribean that when pressed, always say that they've been trained in NY. That usually shuts everyone up.🙄
Lets revive this thread then:
To all U.S. trained residents:
Please list the 3 biggest strengths you see an IMG bring
examples:
1)Interesting train of thought as technology isn't available abroad
2)Never before heard of signs to diagnose
3)Book smart mentality
Then please list the 3 biggest weaknesses you see an IMG have:
examples:
1)Lack of clinical experience
2)Heavy accent
3)Lack of integration with others
I just made these up.
To all U.S. trained residents:
Please list the 3 biggest strengths you see an IMG bring
examples:
1)Interesting train of thought as technology isn't available abroad
2)Never before heard of signs to diagnose
3)Book smart mentality
Then please list the 3 biggest weaknesses you see an IMG have:
examples:
1)Lack of clinical experience
2)Heavy accent
3)Lack of integration with others
I just made these up.
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As I said earlier, I NEVER EVER hide or evade this. EVER. I even mentioned it this evening to a patient, specifically telling her that. Your anecdotes are strictly and only that, and are NOT indicative of my (much larger) pool of anecdotes - namely, because we can all wave it around freely, because we are successfully US residency trained physicians, with such examples as EM, Toxicology, Neuroradiology, General Surgery, and Anesthesiology.
So give it up.
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Whatever, this is going to get you nowhere.
I/FMGs are all very different. They come from different countries, and have different amounts of experience. Some fell straight out of med school, some were profs in their country.
Some lack experience, some dont. Some have a heavy accent, some dont. Some have a heavy Australian accent, and some have a slight Indian accent... To some ears, the Aussie is easier to understand anyway. Some integrate, some dont. Some AMGs integrate, some dont.
Some med schools teach, some dont! Youre description of your education is probably not typical. Some of my profs went to med school in India. Their MBBS program was something like 6.5 years. They had classes in Path, Phys, Pharm, Anatomy, Biochem, and Microbio which lasted 1.5 years each - longer than mine. They used British or American texts.... if I remember, Best&Taylor, Goodman&Gillman, and Grays Anatomy to name a few. Im telling you, Indian nationals break 240 on the USMLE every day, and can take many AMGs to school on Basic Sciences.
You want specifics about what you'll need to improve when you come stateside... take some of the advice given here, and THINK if it applies to you. If it doesnt, leave it. I suspect you dont have an accent. You might learn the Peripheral Stigmata of Aortic Stenosis... or whatever it is, but your resident or attending may not know them... so...😴
Bottom line.... dont ask ppl to come up with a top3 list, because it wont help. I can think of 2 FMGs that I know and come up with 2 totally different lists... for example...
1.thick accent & poor grammar -- so totally not understandable
2.horrible clinical skills... doesnt know how to palpate an abd. or listen to lungs
3.totally dependent, can't work without being handheld.
or
1.nothing - 10 years of attending experience
2.nothing - incredibly well spoken, better grammar than an American
3.nothing - never slacks off, because residency in the US was easier than in their country.
So there.
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Wow TKim..you're really thick headed. I guess you just refuse to even consider the point I was making. You are a typical judge a book by it's cover type of person obviously. I'll make this point one more time and I will make it as simple as possible and maybe you'll at least consider it. Caribbean students are not looked down upon because we studied basic sciences in the Caribbean. Period. We are looked down upon because it is usually assumed that we have no US clinical experience. Furthermore, when it is realized that all of our clinical years(3-4th) are done in the US, we are told, 'well, your clinicals sucked...so......" My point was that many if not most of clinicals were done along with US grads so by that, those US grads are receiving sub par clinicals just as those of us from Ross or SGU. HowellJolly says it best and that's all there is to it.
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Dude, you're so full of ****.
I judge a book by it's writing, and your writing is pure unadulterated useless sophistry.
Carib students are looked down upon because they had to go to the Carib to go to med school, because they didn't get into a US allopathic school. Same thing with DO students. It has *nothing* to do with the artificial differentiation between the basic sciences and clinical rotations that you try to push. That's a load of crap. Get real, buddy.
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alright alright, this isn't supposed to be a thread where people attack each other, especially not IMG vs. IMG or IMG vs. DO / MD. The original premise of this thread is for AMG's to bring up general points upon which IMGs can improve. However, everyone realizes that this is an unanswerable question because of a huge variation among IMGs (just as there is huge variation among skills of AMGs) and bottom line is that everyone knows very astute doctors, as well as ones who should not have been allowed to graduate. this type of question and degenrate very quickly. As I don't really know how saying IMG's need to improve their accent is very constructive. Once you reach adult age, it is unlikely the accent will change.
I'll say it again, as a US IMG who has no regrets about training abroad and one who is very proud of the school I attended - the type of doctor you are as an IMG is due to your own perseverance, personality and hard work, and being willing to put in the extra work in getting accustomed to the US system. Getting accustomed does not take very long.
Anyway, I think if this thread deteriorates one more time, it should be closed.
I'll say it again, as a US IMG who has no regrets about training abroad and one who is very proud of the school I attended - the type of doctor you are as an IMG is due to your own perseverance, personality and hard work, and being willing to put in the extra work in getting accustomed to the US system. Getting accustomed does not take very long.
Anyway, I think if this thread deteriorates one more time, it should be closed.
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Couldn't agree more with you tkim. People look down on Caribbean grads because they couldn't hack it in the US and took the pay your way out of it excuse for medical education. I don't care whether you did your clinical in Grenada or NYC or wherever. You couldn't get into a US med school to start with and you took the easy way out rather than increasing your GPA/test scores/etc. 99.9% of people would not chose to go the Caribbean over a US med school. That should tell you something about why Caribbean grads are looked down upon.
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All right, that's it.
This thread was going nowhere fast, and with this last post, it's not going to go anywhere good, ever. Closing.
This thread was going nowhere fast, and with this last post, it's not going to go anywhere good, ever. Closing.
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