Top DO friendly Psych programs

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POWP

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Mayo (saw numerous past and present DO residents)

UCSF (only one current DO at Fresno, but Vice President of C&A is a DO)

Hartford Hospital (Numerous past and present DO residents)

Barnes-Jewish Hospital (PD is a DO, past and present DO residents)

UPMC (past and present DO residents)

Yale (Can't find info on current/past residents, but application section mentions osteopathic applicants/lists COMLEX scores)..Found this as well...

https://azchildpsych.com/Home_Page.html

Hopkins ( Occasional DO, so maybe not TOO friendly but still possible)

Maryland Shepperd/Enoch (No idea?)

Overall, it seems psychiatry is a rather accepting field for DOs, even at some of the most prestigious residencies. I would appreciate any thoughts/other suggestions.

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One correction, I don't think the PD at Barnes Jewish (WUSTL) is a DO. I'm pretty sure that PD and assistant PD are both MDs. The do have DO residents, though.
 
UCSF (only one current DO at Fresno, but Vice President of C&A is a DO)
Their VP of C&A is also president of AACAP and former executive director of the MIND Institute.

I wouldn't extrapolate UCSF being DO friendly based on their hiring of this fellow. With his resume, he'd be a good hire even if he got his MD by mail.

I would think how amicable a residency program is towards accepting DO's could best be measured by their past track record of accepting DO's. Anything else would largely be smoke, no?
 
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One correction, I don't think the PD at Barnes Jewish (WUSTL) is a DO. I'm pretty sure that PD and assistant PD are both MDs. The do have DO residents, though.

Oh you're right...what happened to Dr. Thrasher DO?



And I mentioned UCSF because the application portion of their site mentions "osteopathic transcripts" as one of the requirements for application. This in addition to the DO VP, and DO resident at Fresno.

You would never see these things at Columbia/Cornell/Mt. Sinai....
 
If the program doesn't have DO residents, would they be "DO unfriendly"?

You certainly cannot make this assumption at all institutions that fall under this category. But past rosters are the best way to make an evidence based application as a DO candidate :).
 
The entire city of Philadelphia not named PENN

All the Jersey programs

All Arizona programs

Maryland

UPMC

UMASS Worcester

As for NYC there are a few programs but I can't remember the names that we put residents into but I feel like St. Vincents sounds familiar

Far from an exclusive list but just the one's I dealt with in my app process and people from my class at PCOM.

That said- I scoured the match list after my match in 08 and was amazed to see DO's matching at basically every major program- UCSD, UC Davis, UCLA programs not in Westwood, Colorado, NYU, Virginia but they were typically from the osteopathic school in that city (Western, NYCOM, etc) and likely bolstered their chances through visiting rotations.

The final wrinkle- the 08 match does not read to have been that competitive with a significant amount of scramble positions. The 09 match had the distinction of few scramble spots and many of my DO friends not matching at programs that they would have the year prior. After talking to higher ups at my program I have been advising my DO applicants to plan for a very competitive match just to be in safe- I know a lot of people who went to their safe schools last year. Now I advise people with significant blemishes on their record (failed boards, remediated courses in med school, etc) to strongly consider the osteopathic match, particularly if they have requirements like needing to stay in a given city. That said, if one had the flexibility to do an osteopathic traditional year and then re-app the following year, I've seen people get into very competitive programs- especially if they're applying having already passed Step 3.
 
Brown currently has two DO residents. Maryland has taken DOs, but not so much in the past few years. Harvard South Shore (although arguably not as strong as those two) has a DO or two.
 
Oh you're right...what happened to Dr. Thrasher DO?



And I mentioned UCSF because the application portion of their site mentions "osteopathic transcripts" as one of the requirements for application. This in addition to the DO VP, and DO resident at Fresno.

You would never see these things at Columbia/Cornell/Mt. Sinai....

Tony Thrasher is a DO. He was not the PD at Washington University/Barnes-Jewish Hospital. He was our chief resident several years ago. Myself as well as the assistant director are both MDs. The PD before me was also a MD.

Realize that applicants have a say in where they go, too. Thus, I can easily rank an applicant high enough to get into my program but if he/she ranks another program more highly than mine they stand a good chance to go to that program instead.
 
Realize that applicants have a say in where they go, too. Thus, I can easily rank an applicant high enough to get into my program but if he/she ranks another program more highly than mine they stand a good chance to go to that program instead.


Exactly.

Psychiatry is one field where these concerns aren't warranted. If you don't see a DO in the resident classes or as an alum, chances are its simply because DO's make up ~5% of US physicians. Numbers dictate there won't be one everywhere :eek:.

If you aren't getting interviews as a DO applicant it isn't because you didn't take the USMLE, it isn't because you are a DO, it is just because of you.
 
I thought many (most?) allopathic residency programs required USMLE scores and didn't accept COMLEX in lieu of them?
 
Exactly.

Psychiatry is one field where these concerns aren't warranted. If you don't see a DO in the resident classes or as an alum, chances are its simply because DO's make up ~5% of US physicians. Numbers dictate there won't be one everywhere :eek:.

If you aren't getting interviews as a DO applicant it isn't because you didn't take the USMLE, it isn't because you are a DO, it is just because of you.

I think DOs are at more of a disadvantage at big-name research powerhouse programs simply because research resources/opportunities are scarcer at DO schools. It seems applicants that only took COMLEX haven't really encountered frequent barriers to admission on the whole, but the USMLE Steps 1 and 2 would be a very good idea to have on file for any competitive allo application (i.e. geographically desirable and nominally prestigious or research-oriented).
 
Exactly.

Psychiatry is one field where these concerns aren't warranted. If you don't see a DO in the resident classes or as an alum, chances are its simply because DO's make up ~5% of US physicians. Numbers dictate there won't be one everywhere :eek:.

If you aren't getting interviews as a DO applicant it isn't because you didn't take the USMLE, it isn't because you are a DO, it is just because of you.

I guarantee Columbia will never take a DO. MGH/Mt. Sinai have never taken a DO before. I highly doubt these places have never received applications from qualified DOs. (Except Columbia b/c I don't think a DO even qualifies for an application)
 
its not psych, but columbia actually has taken a DO for pm&r. several DO's, actually. and nyu is pretty competitive, and they have taken DO's for psych. havent heard anything about mt sinai
 
I guarantee Columbia will never take a DO. MGH/Mt. Sinai have never taken a DO before. I highly doubt these places have never received applications from qualified DOs. (Except Columbia b/c I don't think a DO even qualifies for an application)

Aaah Columbia University, chief of trauma surgery there is a DO, but he had to prove himself by completing a surgery residency outside of Columbia first :rolleyes:

Columbia DOES take DO's for psych fellowships. This I know for a fact. Again, after the applicant has completed a psych residency elsewhere.
 
I guarantee Columbia will never take a DO. MGH/Mt. Sinai have never taken a DO before. I highly doubt these places have never received applications from qualified DOs. (Except Columbia b/c I don't think a DO even qualifies for an application)

So?

The job of a physician exists for patients. Your average American patient doesn't know the difference between most places. They know football. They know Ohio state is going to a bowl game. They know their local university medical center. They know institutions that have done a good job marketing themselves like Mayo and Cleveland Clinic.

If you ask a person on the street what do you know about Massachusetts General Hospital? They will respond, is that a soap opera? No, wait, that's the hospital on Gray's Anatomy! You have to say the name Harvard. And in doing so does your average person know if there is a difference between Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Mayo, Cleveland Clinic, Wash U, Vanderbilt, Emory, etc for medical training? All are private institutions.

Massachusetts is not a place a physician should want to practice in. This article exemplifies that. http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2009/11/27/will-a-move-away-from-fee-for-service-control-health-costs/ MA is now shifting their state towards a glorified capitation model. Capitation failed, and failed hard during the 90's. It most certainly won't succeed now. This isn't the least of the issues MA is facing. A keen physician would know to stay away from that state, and many have left. Recognizing this, why would a graduate want to stay on as faculty? A sign of a good program is one that has a decent retention of their own graduates. I suspect this will greatly be changing in that state as graduates seek out more fruitful states.

Mt. Sinai and Columbia are both in New York. They are astronomical for cost of living. I don't know if you have been paying attention to some of threads on the forums about student loan debts, cost of living, the economy, and psychiatry salary. Our economy will not recover for a very long time if at all. This is going to be the new norm. Declining world resources, rising world population, and possibly even changing environment all have economic impacts that no country is going to bounce back from readily.

Psychiatry isn't going to be increasing in income. Do you really want to live in a city you can't afford during residency and very likely post residency? Insurance companies or the government will not be clamoring to increase reimbursements for physicians. Americans don't care about a physician being paid appropriately. They seldom know the difference between PA, (D)NP, or Physician.

If you think you will opt of the system and do cash only catering to the people who know the value of paying for a physician do you think they will know the more prestigious psychiary programs? U. Cinncinnati is quite established with research, but would a patient known the difference compared to OHSU? Would a patient know if they are buying the best psychoanalyst if they trained at programs like Iowa or Wash U that are more biologically orientated? If this is a goal, it is best to know what the people in your practice area recognize as "the best". But at the end of the day, your personal reputation and word of mouth will matter more.

Getting back to your points about DO's at those institutions, I say it really doesn't matter and Osteopathic Physicians aren't missing out on much that can't be obtained elsewhere, too. It just means they are going to programs that are much better overall in the numerous other variables that mean a lot more in the real world.
 
So?


Getting back to your points about DO's at those institutions, I say it really doesn't matter and Osteopathic Physicians aren't missing out on much that can't be obtained elsewhere, too. It just means they are going to programs that are much better overall in the numerous other variables that mean a lot more in the real world.



Your point is well taken, but what about if a DO is highly interested in a "high power" research position?
 
Your point is well taken, but what about if a DO is highly interested in a "high power" research position?

That door might be closed at Columbia, MGH, UCSF, etc. at least for residency, but you could find some well-respected, research heavy residency that takes DOs and then move on from there. Columbia and MGH don't have a lock on big league research.
 
That door might be closed at Columbia, MGH, UCSF, etc. at least for residency, but you could find some well-respected, research heavy residency that takes DOs and then move on from there. Columbia and MGH don't have a lock on big league research.

And it's their loss if they pass on a motivated, highly interested resident.

Hopkins, Pitt, Michigan, WUSTL, Iowa, Emory, Cincy....all places off the top of my head that will welcome the chance to train a "high powered" researcher without caring so much about the O vs. the M in your title.
 
I have worked with a few DO's as a med student at Colorado and there was one in my interview group there.

I agree with Sneezing and, as a future MD, did not apply to some very good schools in various locations because of practical things like cost of living, schools for my son and jobs for my husband. It is their loss if they don't take DO's.

So, come to Colorado! The cost of living is reasonable, rent is cheap, the weather is FABULOUS and if you don't ski--you soon will. Having no call for the last two years makes that last one more attainable. Good luck!
 
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So?

The job of a physician exists for patients. Your average American patient doesn't know the difference between most places. They know football. They know Ohio state is going to a bowl game. They know their local university medical center. They know institutions that have done a good job marketing themselves like Mayo and Cleveland Clinic.

If you ask a person on the street what do you know about Massachusetts General Hospital? They will respond, is that a soap opera? No, wait, that's the hospital on Gray's Anatomy! You have to say the name Harvard. And in doing so does your average person know if there is a difference between Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Mayo, Cleveland Clinic, Wash U, Vanderbilt, Emory, etc for medical training? All are private institutions.

Massachusetts is not a place a physician should want to practice in. This article exemplifies that. http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2009/11/27/will-a-move-away-from-fee-for-service-control-health-costs/ MA is now shifting their state towards a glorified capitation model. Capitation failed, and failed hard during the 90's. It most certainly won't succeed now. This isn't the least of the issues MA is facing. A keen physician would know to stay away from that state, and many have left. Recognizing this, why would a graduate want to stay on as faculty? A sign of a good program is one that has a decent retention of their own graduates. I suspect this will greatly be changing in that state as graduates seek out more fruitful states.

The job of an academic physician also exists for trainees and colleagues, not just patients. These folks do tend to know the difference between programs and sometimes do care. No one has EVER stayed at a Harvard institution post-graduation for the money (because it's always been comparatively low pay) so I doubt healthcare reform will make an iota of difference to their recruitment.
 
Colorado!? They are famous for charging something like $2000 (yes seriously) for osteo students to rotate in that state unless you attend Western, Touro, LeCom, and I think the Vegas Touro. They told me that back in the day they had all their visiting rotations saturated w osteos so the answer was to charge an exorbitant fee. I guess everyone at the schools with poor hospital availability decided to go skiing for the winter. More surprising is that you actually pay the fee to the Colorado Osteo Association and they then clear you to rotate. When I called them to point out how ridiculous this exclusion was they made like the fee wasn't too over the top. Too bad too because Colorado is an absolutely amazing program in one of the best kept secret cities in the country.
 
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