Since there are no official rankings, I was just wondering based on word of mouth, experience, and readings... in your opinion, what are the top ten DO schools?
Top DO Schools
- Thread starter W.Horry
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There is no way on earth that you will be able ascertain an unbiased top 10 list from this board. What you will get is a bunch of people claiming that the school they attend is number one. If you want to stay in California after you graduate, I suggest COMP. I personally know several graduates that are doing well. If you want to work in the rural New England community, then UNECOM may be a better choice. It really depends on the criteria that is important to the individual. In other words, you must determine your own top ten based on how you feel about the schools. I interviewed at a few schools that are probably great schools, however, they were not "great" for me.
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lol! exactly. So here's my opinion.
A few of the positive points:
MSUCOM is the only school which is part of a Major Big Ten University. Michigan has the largest number of practicing osteopaths than any other state. MSUCOM has direct relations with 18 different medical systems across the state of Michigan, offering a vast range of primary care and specialty care options. Because of this many schools send some students here for rotations. Class sizes run around 110 give or take, which is relatively small (roughly half) compared to some of the other schools on my "A" list. For the research minded applicant a joint PhD/DO degree is offered. Ranked 9th in Primary Care by USnews, tied with John's Hopkins and the University of California-San Francisco.
Now some of the negative points:
Because it is a public university, it favors in-state applicants. Making it difficult for out-of-staters to get in, but not impossible. They do not have a dedicated medical library. They do not have an on-campus hospital. The parking situation is horrible. The weather can be unpredictable and annoying for those not used to it (snow, sun, clouds, hail, rain, sleet, ice, hot, cold, windy, tornadoes, you name it).
http://www.com.msu.edu
I hope this helps, I tried to stay objective sticking to the facts only. If I had to apply a rank (based on what I consider are important criteria), I would say MSUCOM is in the top 5 among the 18 osteopathic schools.
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DocGibby
MSUCOM class of 2004
[This message has been edited by DocGibby (edited 05-09-2000).]
[This message has been edited by DocGibby (edited 05-09-2000).]
A few of the positive points:
MSUCOM is the only school which is part of a Major Big Ten University. Michigan has the largest number of practicing osteopaths than any other state. MSUCOM has direct relations with 18 different medical systems across the state of Michigan, offering a vast range of primary care and specialty care options. Because of this many schools send some students here for rotations. Class sizes run around 110 give or take, which is relatively small (roughly half) compared to some of the other schools on my "A" list. For the research minded applicant a joint PhD/DO degree is offered. Ranked 9th in Primary Care by USnews, tied with John's Hopkins and the University of California-San Francisco.
Now some of the negative points:
Because it is a public university, it favors in-state applicants. Making it difficult for out-of-staters to get in, but not impossible. They do not have a dedicated medical library. They do not have an on-campus hospital. The parking situation is horrible. The weather can be unpredictable and annoying for those not used to it (snow, sun, clouds, hail, rain, sleet, ice, hot, cold, windy, tornadoes, you name it).
http://www.com.msu.edu
I hope this helps, I tried to stay objective sticking to the facts only. If I had to apply a rank (based on what I consider are important criteria), I would say MSUCOM is in the top 5 among the 18 osteopathic schools.
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DocGibby
MSUCOM class of 2004
[This message has been edited by DocGibby (edited 05-09-2000).]
[This message has been edited by DocGibby (edited 05-09-2000).]
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I was curious, how come factors such as a schools history or avg. student gpa/mcats isnt part of the equation when figuring the best DO school. Isnt Kirksville and DMU the 2 oldest schools (founded pre-1900)? In addition, arent the avg acceptance statistics of students also higher at these schools when compared to the dozen or so newer do schools? I was also curious, why is a school given a high subjective ranking only due to the # of students going into primary care? Shouldnt that actually deem the opposite standing since it is more difficult for students to enter a specialty?
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Here ya go Lars. Draw your own conclusion. As for the USnews rankings, just accept it and move on. Don't forget Lars that ALL the DO schools push primary care. Most of the students go into primary care because the education is primary care focused not because specialties are harder to get into. Being this the case, I WAS CURIOUS why other schools with class sizes nearly double that of MSUCOM don't find themselves on the list. Based upon your conclusions, more primary care doctors equates to higher rankings. Yet oddly 17 schools are absent from the list. Could it be that other factors are considered? Curious, indeed. Also, I WAS CURIOUS what the founding date has to do with anything?
MSUCOM: 1969
AVG GPA: 3.5
MCAT overall composite: 8.3
VR: 8.1
PS: 8.2
BS: 8.7
133 Full time faculty/16 Part time
Full time faculty/student ratio: .3
DMU: early 1900's ?
AVG GPA: 3.45
MCAT overall composite: 7.9
VR: 7.9
PS: 7.6
BS: 8.4
44 Full time faculty/6 Part time
Full time faculty/student ratio: .1
Kirksville: 1892
AVG GPA: 3.41
MCAT overall composite: 9.1
VR: 9.0
PS: 9.0
BS: 9.5
98 Full time faculty/38 Part time
Full time faculty/student ratio: .2
Pikesville: 1990's ?
AVG GPA: 3.36
MCAT overall composite: 7.5
VR: 7.5
PS: 7.1
BS: 7.9
26 Full time faculty/282 Part time
Full time faculty/student ratio: .2
[This message has been edited by DocGibby (edited 05-09-2000).]
[This message has been edited by DocGibby (edited 05-09-2000).]
MSUCOM: 1969
AVG GPA: 3.5
MCAT overall composite: 8.3
VR: 8.1
PS: 8.2
BS: 8.7
133 Full time faculty/16 Part time
Full time faculty/student ratio: .3
DMU: early 1900's ?
AVG GPA: 3.45
MCAT overall composite: 7.9
VR: 7.9
PS: 7.6
BS: 8.4
44 Full time faculty/6 Part time
Full time faculty/student ratio: .1
Kirksville: 1892
AVG GPA: 3.41
MCAT overall composite: 9.1
VR: 9.0
PS: 9.0
BS: 9.5
98 Full time faculty/38 Part time
Full time faculty/student ratio: .2
Pikesville: 1990's ?
AVG GPA: 3.36
MCAT overall composite: 7.5
VR: 7.5
PS: 7.1
BS: 7.9
26 Full time faculty/282 Part time
Full time faculty/student ratio: .2
[This message has been edited by DocGibby (edited 05-09-2000).]
[This message has been edited by DocGibby (edited 05-09-2000).]
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Thanks for the reply gibby. I only mention factors of a schools history and competitiveness of students in reference to the more traditional objective asessments of allopathic schools. In general, there is a strong correlation between the length of a schools history, the competitiveness of students, and its rank. It appears that this may not be entirely the case for DO schools. I have no partiality, if you want to believe that Michigan is #1 that is fine with me, Im just trying to get some information.
I also questioned why it would be that a high percentage of students going into PC from a given school would deem a high ranking. I still dont understand this. I bring this up for 2 reasons. The first which i previously stated is that it is more difficult to obtain residency positions in specialties. It is hard to believe that 90+% of DO students are dye-hard PC goers. second, a disgruntled NOVA student posted not too long ago that he felt the schools recent high rating was a joke. He felt that the school made it extremely difficult for their students to enter a specialty; hence, like 96% entered PC, and out came the award. It frightens me to think that this may happen. You see, I am not sure exactly what in medicine I want to do. But if I find that i am extremely interested in say: neurology, pathology, derm or opthomology, I would hope that if i am competitive enough i can gain a residency position in a field that i want. Is it a prereq for a DO applicant to want to be in PC?
I also questioned why it would be that a high percentage of students going into PC from a given school would deem a high ranking. I still dont understand this. I bring this up for 2 reasons. The first which i previously stated is that it is more difficult to obtain residency positions in specialties. It is hard to believe that 90+% of DO students are dye-hard PC goers. second, a disgruntled NOVA student posted not too long ago that he felt the schools recent high rating was a joke. He felt that the school made it extremely difficult for their students to enter a specialty; hence, like 96% entered PC, and out came the award. It frightens me to think that this may happen. You see, I am not sure exactly what in medicine I want to do. But if I find that i am extremely interested in say: neurology, pathology, derm or opthomology, I would hope that if i am competitive enough i can gain a residency position in a field that i want. Is it a prereq for a DO applicant to want to be in PC?
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I have not chosen to participate in the recent postings on ranking D.O. schools because I simply do not have knowledge of all the programs. However, I came to some conclusions and was able to rank the programs that I was applying to (7 osteopathic schools). Two of the criteria that I used in my ranking were 1.) assessing the size and availability of clinical training sites; and 2.) postgraduate programs offered. First, I felt that the best programs were those which had large hospitals with room for all or most of their students to rotate through. To me, the larger size meant more patients to see and a POTENTIALLY better education because of those patients. Secondly, The schools which had more internship and residency positions affiliated with them gave me the impression that they were better organized and funded.
These weren't the only issues I used in my personal rankings, but were two that seem to be overlooked by others. Too often, people get caught up on COMLEX/USMLE pass rates and averages, MCAT scores and GPAs, but these numbers don't tell the whole story! Ultimately, you (not the school) are responsible for learning medicine and you need to decide where the best academic and clinical atmospheres are for you to excel.
[This message has been edited by bri1856 (edited 05-11-2000).]
These weren't the only issues I used in my personal rankings, but were two that seem to be overlooked by others. Too often, people get caught up on COMLEX/USMLE pass rates and averages, MCAT scores and GPAs, but these numbers don't tell the whole story! Ultimately, you (not the school) are responsible for learning medicine and you need to decide where the best academic and clinical atmospheres are for you to excel.
[This message has been edited by bri1856 (edited 05-11-2000).]
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Lars, let me first start by saying that I don't believe Michigan is number one. I just have the most info on them because I'm going there. Let me add that the list above was in no particular order, I just picked those for comparison purposes on gpas. I've saved the honor of number one for another school not mentioned. Also for bri, no system of evaluation is ever going to please everyone. W horry asked for an "opinion" and that's what I gave him/her. I gave my opinion on my first choice school noting the good with the bad. I further added that I believed it to be among the "top" schools. Once again an "opinion" based on my experiences and what I consider to be important. Enough about that.
Lars,
I'm confused though about a few things. When you refer to the difficulty of obtaining residencies are you refering to MD programs, DO programs or both? It makes a difference. As far as the idea that 90+% (perhaps an exaggeration) go into PC, believe it. Perhaps not as high at other schools but definitely up there. It's the primary mission of most if not all the DO schools to graduate primary care physicians. This was indeed the central goal upon which MSU itself was created. To supply primary care physicians to areas of michigan which were in short suppy (this is the goal of many of the schools in their respective regions). Being this the case, yes you are encouraged to pursue PC but that is more due to the nature of the program. You are not however, denied or pressured into not pursuing specialties. See for yourself the vast range of specialty residencies available through MSU affiliated medical systems. True there are less of these specialty programs when individually compared to the availability of PC programs, but there are many none the less. In Michigan another point arises as well. Michigan and a few other states require an Osteopathic internship be completed before osteopath is granted a license to practice in Michigan. If you don't already know, the internship is essentianly another year of PC training. Once again, the nature of the program.
I'm just rambling now, but the point is that in michigan (and some other states) the programs and the licensing push PC, but they do not force it upon students. It's still your choice, which explains the relatively high numbers of students entiring PC.
[This message has been edited by DocGibby (edited 05-12-2000).]
Lars,
I'm confused though about a few things. When you refer to the difficulty of obtaining residencies are you refering to MD programs, DO programs or both? It makes a difference. As far as the idea that 90+% (perhaps an exaggeration) go into PC, believe it. Perhaps not as high at other schools but definitely up there. It's the primary mission of most if not all the DO schools to graduate primary care physicians. This was indeed the central goal upon which MSU itself was created. To supply primary care physicians to areas of michigan which were in short suppy (this is the goal of many of the schools in their respective regions). Being this the case, yes you are encouraged to pursue PC but that is more due to the nature of the program. You are not however, denied or pressured into not pursuing specialties. See for yourself the vast range of specialty residencies available through MSU affiliated medical systems. True there are less of these specialty programs when individually compared to the availability of PC programs, but there are many none the less. In Michigan another point arises as well. Michigan and a few other states require an Osteopathic internship be completed before osteopath is granted a license to practice in Michigan. If you don't already know, the internship is essentianly another year of PC training. Once again, the nature of the program.
I'm just rambling now, but the point is that in michigan (and some other states) the programs and the licensing push PC, but they do not force it upon students. It's still your choice, which explains the relatively high numbers of students entiring PC.
[This message has been edited by DocGibby (edited 05-12-2000).]
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Bri 1856
what are the seven schools that you are speaking of?
what are the seven schools that you are speaking of?
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AZCOM, CCOM, DMU, KCOM, OSUCOM, UNT-TCOM, UHSCOM
This is only the list of schools that I considered. This is not my rank order. Email me if you have specific questions.
[This message has been edited by bri1856 (edited 05-12-2000).]
This is only the list of schools that I considered. This is not my rank order. Email me if you have specific questions.
[This message has been edited by bri1856 (edited 05-12-2000).]
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How does Western U compare to other DO schools and allopathic schools?
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Forget all the other suggestions.
Go with NYCOM.
Tim of New York City.
Go with NYCOM.
Tim of New York City.
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I was also wondering where to find the DO rankings. I am worried that I will attend a school that I have to set up all my clinicals and preceptorships. That would be fine if I went to a school that I was familiar with, but if I go out of state, chances are it is going to be difficult for me to set up my own!
I want to go to a good school and I also wonder if the more newly established ones would NOT be a good choice. I think that it may be detrimentle to go to a newer school like LECOM because they don't have all the affiliations.
Any info.
Tiff
I want to go to a good school and I also wonder if the more newly established ones would NOT be a good choice. I think that it may be detrimentle to go to a newer school like LECOM because they don't have all the affiliations.
Any info.
Tiff
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You might want to check your info. on LECOM. Take a look at their web-page if you don't think they have the affiliations (www.lecom.edu). In your case, you might want to be a little wary of: Pikeville, AZCOM, and TUCOM...these are the 'newer' schools.
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Just adding my two cents DocGibby, but I don't think the parking situation at MSU is that horrible for medical students in MSUCHM and MSUCOM. The info package sent out by CHM recently included parking registration forms for lot# 100 (right next to the Clinical Centre and Radiology Building), which is typically vistors parking, but is given as an option only to the medical students...I guess they recognize the fact that we could be studying very late into the night, and may need parking as close as possible to the new med student study rooms located in the Radiology Building. This parking is ideal for CHM students since we have most of our classes in the Life Sciences Building which is right next door...where do MSUCOM students have most of their classes?..isn't it in the same building as well? The rate for parking is $134.00 per semester..which is not really that bad.
Tiffsatt,
As a California resident, I was thinking about attending TUCOM... I will probably still apply, but just to let you know, I was speaking with a pre-med advisor at my school and he mentioned that there was an article about TUCOM in the newspaper... I think the SF Chronicle. Although nothing awful was written about the school... it did seem that because they are so new, many of the labs and facilities are not properly equipped. For that reason, if you are applying for DO school soon, TUCOM might not be the best choice. However, 4-6 years down the road, TUCOM might be a great place to be. So, this is something to think about.
As a California resident, I was thinking about attending TUCOM... I will probably still apply, but just to let you know, I was speaking with a pre-med advisor at my school and he mentioned that there was an article about TUCOM in the newspaper... I think the SF Chronicle. Although nothing awful was written about the school... it did seem that because they are so new, many of the labs and facilities are not properly equipped. For that reason, if you are applying for DO school soon, TUCOM might not be the best choice. However, 4-6 years down the road, TUCOM might be a great place to be. So, this is something to think about.
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Since I will be attending WUCOMP, I feel I need to step up and represent my school. First off, I've lived in Socal all my life, so its natural for me to want to come back and work here. WUCOMP would definitely be the wise choice. As far as I know, they have really strong ties with a new hospital in the san bernadino area, where everyone will be doing their rotations. I have a 3rd year friend attending WUCOMP and he says the hospital is outstanding, and EVERYONE signs up for it. This hospital also has an AOA-approved orthopedic surgery program, so choosing WUCOMP was pretty easy. I've also interviewed and UHSCOM, and in my mind is also an outstanding school. What I did NOT like about it was the fact that you have to go out of state for some of the rotations. I've received interview invites from CCOM, AZCOM, TUCOM, KCOM, and three others that I cant remember, but turned them all down once I got my early acceptance to WUCOMP.
The facilities at WUCOMP are pretty damn outstanding. I liked the lecture halls at WUCOMP more than UHS, but like UHS's anatomy labs more. And both schools have facilities that are waaaaaaay better than the allopathic schools i've interviewed at.
This is just from my own PERSONAL oppinion (no flames now) I would consider going to these schools:
WUCOMP, MSUCOM, UHSCOM, CCOM
I purposely left the others out because I dont have a lot of information on them.
Hope this helps.
mig
The facilities at WUCOMP are pretty damn outstanding. I liked the lecture halls at WUCOMP more than UHS, but like UHS's anatomy labs more. And both schools have facilities that are waaaaaaay better than the allopathic schools i've interviewed at.
This is just from my own PERSONAL oppinion (no flames now) I would consider going to these schools:
WUCOMP, MSUCOM, UHSCOM, CCOM
I purposely left the others out because I dont have a lot of information on them.
Hope this helps.
mig
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Just for clarification, you may not have to do rotations outside the KC area if you don't want to. Rotations are assigned by a lottery system, you pick 3 top choices and the computer tries to randomly assign everyone to their top choice. There are a lot of spots available in KC (from what I've been told) and most of the 2nd years I've spoken with who wanted to stay in KC are staying here. There are some who won't be, but I think the vcast majority got what they wanted. Maybe a current second year could elaborate or correct me if I'm wrong.
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RYSA,
While there is parking lots, they are quite a walking distance. Compared to other schools. The lot you talk about is a pretty good distance from our morning classes and that's a premium price. I'm planning on parking across Hagerdorn at one of the commercial lots. It's a farther walk but its half the price. If you want to park anywhere else on campus forget about it. Many of COM's classes are in East Fee Hall, forget about parking there. The horrible parking I was mainly referring to is the situation all over campus. I suggest you get yourself a bike or some rollerblades if you plan to go anywhere else on campus besides class.
While there is parking lots, they are quite a walking distance. Compared to other schools. The lot you talk about is a pretty good distance from our morning classes and that's a premium price. I'm planning on parking across Hagerdorn at one of the commercial lots. It's a farther walk but its half the price. If you want to park anywhere else on campus forget about it. Many of COM's classes are in East Fee Hall, forget about parking there. The horrible parking I was mainly referring to is the situation all over campus. I suggest you get yourself a bike or some rollerblades if you plan to go anywhere else on campus besides class.
