Top Psych Residencies

Started by DD214_DOC
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I apologize for bumping a week old thread, but I kept up with this on my iphone while traveling and had some thoughts then. You know, no one is saying that reputation doesn't matter in certain circumstances and that people are bad for caring about that in a residency. However, no one seems to be able to state with any accuracy what programs have a better reputation outside of maybe the top 2 or 3 since we're all influenced by regional and personal biases. This was evidenced by the person above who mentioned all Cali programs in listing the most difficult ones to get into. And the programs Sneezing mentioned are reputable programs that can get you tons of research exposure and an academic career, but no one mentions them in these lists because they're not in the NE or California.

You make a good point. I think it depends also on where you plan to practice. Regardless of ranking, attending a residency program in the state you plan to practice in could be worthwhile.

I would argue that MUSC/Pitt/UNC etc. are much better known in the psych community than say Texas Tech. If you are practicing in TX, I could easily see the patient preferring the Texas Tech physician over many others.

Obviously a few names will transcend all states (Harvard, Yale, etc.), but otherwise patients will go with the name they recognize.....not always the most well-known amongst psychiatry trained MD's
 
I'm a little surprised that of all the names that have been thrown out there, the Western Psych/Pit program hasn't been mentioned. Do people have thoughts about this program?
 
Ok, I agree with some things you're saying, and disagree with others. Since I have to catch a flight to a very unpopular, much-maligned part of the county in a few minutes, not very beloved by narcissists at all, and in fact (luckily, probably) not even known by many of them, I only have time to point out what I agree and disagree with! Later I will reveal my oh-so-interesting thoughts on why.

No.

The narcissism is a constant here.
DISAGREE. I believe there is variability.

We were all a bunch of medical students in the most self-centered, free-market, pro-self esteem nation on the planet who decided to pursue a specialty generally maligned by our peers which involves seeing the darkest stories of humanity splattered all over triage sheets.
Agree with statement but I do not think this leads to the above conclusion.

Listen, I'm not at the most prestigious program. ... But I don't have to comfort myself that somehow I'm better than folks that recognized that there are very special psychiatric communities in some of the bigger cities,
I can't agree or disagree, only admire you, however I also now must distrust most of what you say about narcissism, since you are so self-effacing. ;-)

Being happy with where you are and with your own priorities does not require that you belittle others who have different ones than you do.
AGREE
 
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Ok, I agree with some things you're saying, and disagree with others. Since I have to catch a flight to a very unpopular, much-maligned part of the county in a few minutes, not very beloved by narcissists at all, and in fact (luckily, probably) not even known by many of them, I only have time to point out what I agree and disagree with! Later I will reveal my oh-so-interesting thoughts on why.

Welcome back to Unpopular Much-Maligned Land!
 
Welcome back to Unpopular Much-Maligned Land!

Thanks. ;-)

Come on, I bet you didn't have to go to med school with people who cannot name the 50 states, or who introduce to you to people from Arkansas, because "they're so close together." THESE are the people competing for those spots at those top programs, although I seem to remember the Arkansas comment came from someone who applied, of course, in Derm. America's smartest, I tell you...

I'm glad for this conversation, if for no other reason than I have now remembered to bring a coat, which I nearly forgot!
 
Unfortunately I don't think flyover country is narcissist free because I've met a decent amount of them in my time here. I wonder if narcissists like it here because it's non-threatening (everybody would be inferior to you 🙄 ), and it's easy to feel superior in a poor state where lots of people haven't even graduated from high school. No risk to those fragile narcissist egos.
 
In my opinion, the Top Psychiatry program should be defined as the program where you gain the ability, having gone there, to have no restrictions in achieving your professional goals after residency.

For some people, this is quite specific...like wanting to practice in a certain location..and thus, a regional approach, which you can see even in the residents in big academic institutions, leads people to the relative "best" program for them.

Similarly, if you know you want to do research in a certain sub-field of psychiatry, like Addictions, Neuroimaging, etc...then you can find programs where the leaders in those fields have little empires that you can latch onto, which therefore will give you the fast track to success as being on the front line of the best research and benefitting from being a "disciple" of so and so expert.

The real test of a program though, is if one is unsure of where they want to end up in psychiatry, but they know they want to have every option available to them in residency to pursue whatever sparks their interest while they are training. Whether it be working with a special clinical population, doing research, fellowship, or private practice as a generalist, the TOP program, should not disadvantage you in any of the options.

Thus one can't ignore "name recognition" in this equation, because certain programs are assumed to provide excellent education due to historical factors. Ivy league names tend to get the benefit of the doubt in this area, none more than Harvard. It is without question, that training at Harvard is something one can use to their advantage academically, but actually I would say moreso in the private practice world. The lay public eats that stuff up. But remember, most places tied to reputable undergrad universities tend to get the benefit of the doubt, and this bias is amplified in the local region for those universities.

However, being able to go to a program that offers exposure to various parts of psychiatry in the best combination of "breadth and depth" to me is the best program. That generally eliminates non-university based programs because of research and specialized training and "thought leaders" in the field all being tied to these places. Some people say "I'm not interested in research" and then discount programs with big time research dollars and instead look for "clinical" programs. I think that is a big mistake, because the research is usually tied to specialized clinics and experts that are a few years ahead of the curve of what is happening elsewhere clinically and one can really gain an advantage for their future by being at those places.

In fact, the field is so in flux, that even if you are at a great clinical program where you see lots of patients and have good teachers, its hard to feel confident in what you are learning, because so much changes every year, that so much of what people are teaching you ends up being completely wrong.

If I were doing it over again, I would look for places that really had big time research in multiple areas and offered most or all fellowships. I would not go for the most volume heavy place, but also not the easiest program.

I really think the research happening at a certain place matters a heck of a lot more than medical students give it credit. And this includes psychotherapy research.

So looking at NIMH and other research dollars gets a bad rap, but as I've reflected on my training as a graduate, I realize now (as a total non-researcher), that research being done at the institution has such a ripple effect on the entire residency experience.

Thats not to say you can't get excellent training at a hundred different places, but if you are talking about the TOP programs, which are few, then this is what I would say...and I think it doesn't linearly translate to what is the "most competitive" program to get into because so many people prioritize regional interests (understandably so) over actual training interests.
 
Being embroiled in trying to choose my personal "top" program (while also trying to get that program to love me back), I found myself agreeing with Worried Well.

I'd add that I tend to get enthused not so much by subject matter as by the role models/heroes who are doing it. I loved surgery for a while because I was with a very cool group of residents, a very smart attending, and a cute colleague who flirted with me. When I switched over, the surgery was fairly similar, but the residents were trolls, the attending was unavailable, and my fellow students were schizoid strivers.

When I try to find the right residency, I try to imagine myself surrounded by a hypothetical (as-yet unchosen) group of residents who will inevitably be different from the handful of residents I met on interview day; taught by faculty who are more predictable for some rotations (inpatient, CL, ER) but unpredictable for outpatient supervision; and "administered" by people who could move away any moment (my impression is that there is considerable movement among academics, though that may vary quite a bit and may come in spasms, as when a chair changes). And even if I knew exactly who would be doing the teaching, I don't know how they'll view me. A drag? A star? That must influence their teaching and enthusiasm.

Anyway, that makes me think it's best to try to find a place that is well organized, dedicated to teaching and mentoring, and embued with a general feeling of comaraderie--since I'd imagine a group process is harder to change than any single individual.

Having said all that, it doesn't seem tough to figure out a top 5 in regards to selectivity, but I'm just not sure it matters to most people--especially since a better fit is more important.
 
So I see this thread appears to be more focused on top tier programs...however, I keep juggling between 3 programs in my rank list and was hoping others could add constructive input. The programs are:

Creighton University/UNMC
University of Connecticut
Wright State University

And just to throw it out there, location is not an issue. Any feedback?
 
So I see this thread appears to be more focused on top tier programs...however, I keep juggling between 3 programs in my rank list and was hoping others could add constructive input. The programs are:

Creighton University/UNMC
University of Connecticut
Wright State University

And just to throw it out there, location is not an issue. Any feedback?

Can only comment on Creighton/UNMC, my wife loved it. Seems pretty laid back and they are extremely accomodating with trying to help you do what you're interested in. Seemed very resident friendly and the benefits are probably the best we've seen. Seems to be mostly IMG's and UNMC/Creighton grads if that bothers you (doesn't bother my wife). Not sure how much research is available but the combination of the two universities into one program allows for more research than they would be able to provide individually (according to the residents).

Edit: Her review is here http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=671376
 
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I'm a little surprised that of all the names that have been thrown out there, the Western Psych/Pit program hasn't been mentioned. Do people have thoughts about this program?

Yes, Pittsburgh is arguably the best program in the country. And they are selective. I received interviews at Penn, Duke, Emory, and Harvard programs, but no Pitt invitation.