Top Tier, Low Tier

[NYCpsychmajor]

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Hey people!

This may be a stupid question, but what qualifies a school as being top or lower tier phd/psyd program? I understand that there are private versus public universities, but is that all that determines it? Does it have to do with the acceptance rates, reputation, quality of professors? Any info would help 🙂


Thanks ahead of time! 👍

 

[TruePsych]

Hey people!

This may be a stupid question, but what qualifies a school as being top or lower tier phd/psyd program? I understand that there are private versus public universities, but is that all that determines it? Does it have to do with the acceptance rates, reputation, quality of professors? Any info would help 🙂


Thanks ahead of time! 👍

I would say reputation is the biggest. This is determined by several factors; some of which are how long the school has been in existence, how well known it is, strength of the programs as determined by success of graduates (undergrad and grad) prestige of programs offered and subject area available. Also reputations of faculty, research output, grants/funding.
What a university is known for is important to consider also. Different universities have strengths in different areas, so depends also on the type of programs people are interested in. For instance some schools are known as great med schools, or law, or psychology 🙂 for example.

I'm sure there are tons of other factors that aren't coming to mind, so I'll leave it to others to fill in the gaps.

 

[cara susanna]

I don't think there's really such a thing in our field.

 

[ADDICTED2STATS]

I would like to think there isn't a such a thing in our field, but I know full well there is. However, I would add that I go to a low tier PhD program. It isn't really known for anything and my advisor isn't a huge name in psychology or even in his area. However, that doesn't mean you can't be extremely successful regardless of where you go. I plan to go into academia, but, basically no one from my program has gone that route, which makes it a little daunting. None-the-less, I've published numerous articles in good journals, secured external funding, and just matched to one of the top research focused internships in the country. I worked hard, knowing I wouldn't be able to rely on my schools reputation. I've been contacted by two different universities (both higher on the totem than mine) telling me they plan to hire this fall and asking me to think about applying. So, while I do think there are definite tiers, I don't think that the school you go to will result in any glass ceilings. A program is what you make of it. You can leave a very good program and still be incompetent, or a lowly program and be fantastic. The task is finding a place that you really like and want... that also wants you 😉

 

[futureapppsy2]

I don't think there's really such a thing in our field.

Yeah, I agree, at least for university-based, at least partially funded programs Plus. it's so dependent on *who* you like with, not necessarily *where* you work with them, in a lot of cases.

 

[Buzzwordsoldier]

Hey people!

This may be a stupid question, but what qualifies a school as being top or lower tier phd/psyd program? I understand that there are private versus public universities, but is that all that determines it? Does it have to do with the acceptance rates, reputation, quality of professors? Any info would help 🙂


Thanks ahead of time! 👍

Poetically, it's the flame you feed.

 

[RileyG]

I don't think there's really such a thing in our field.

Of course there are...with the Argosy/Alliant-type schools at the bottom and fully funded programs at the top.

 

[Buzzwordsoldier]

Of course there are...with the Argosy/Alliant-type schools at the bottom and fully funded programs at the top.

Knock knock.

Who's there?

Your bad.

Your bad, who?

Your bad for not sticking to the anti-psyd thread.

 

[RileyG]

Knock knock.

Who's there?

Your bad.

Your bad, who?

Your bad for not sticking to the anti-psyd thread.

Knock knock.

Who's there?

Your bad.

Your bad, who?

Your bad for not realizing that Argosy/Alliant-type schools and fully funded programs give both PhDs and PsyDs

jokes are fun.

 

[KayJay85]

Knock knock.

Who's there?

Your bad.

Your bad, who?

Your bad for not sticking to the anti-psyd thread.

Being anti-Aliiant/Argosy is not being anti-PsyD. That is spin. These "programs" (businesses) do not represent the true Vail model of PsyD training. I am sure that many student or graduate of Rutgers, Wright State, Indiana State, Baylor, and many others would take issue with your attempt to roll them into the same category with programs that operate like Everest or Devry.

 

[Buzzwordsoldier]

Being anti-Aliiant/Argosy is not being anti-PsyD. That is spin. These "programs" (businesses) do not represent the true Vail model of PsyD training. I am sure that many student or graduate of Rutgers, Wright State, Indiana State, Baylor, and many others would take issue with your attempt to roll them into the same category with programs that operate like Everest or Devry.

Just not buying the notion of a continuum, per se. M 'k?

You may say I'm a cancer or a dreamer. Either way, I ain't the only one.

 

[NYCpsychmajor]

Thanks for the responses!

I feel like the only way I hear about the different "tiers" is through word of mouth.

I have an almost perfect (3.98) UGPA, but lack-luster research experience. I am considering taking time after undergrad to obtain more experience, but I prob will take a shot at applying for a psyD program.

My problem is: when choosing which schools to apply for, I can't tell which are reach/(more) obtainable schools. I don't want to be too naive, and end up applying to only programs that are out of my reach >_>

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Thanks for the responses!

I feel like the only way I hear about the different "tiers" is through word of mouth.

I have an almost perfect (3.98) UGPA, but lack-luster research experience. I am considering taking time after undergrad to obtain more experience, but I prob will take a shot at applying for a psyD program.

My problem is: when choosing which schools to apply for, I can't tell which are reach/(more) obtainable schools. I don't want to be too naive, and end up applying to only programs that are out of my reach >_>

If you list the area(s) you're interested in and the schools you're thinking of applying to, people may be able to give you a read of where they fall along the notoriety (good or bad) continuum.

That being said, if you apply to enough programs (12-15), you'll likely get a decent smattering of variability.

 

[nononora]

Hey people!

This may be a stupid question, but what qualifies a school as being top or lower tier phd/psyd program? I understand that there are private versus public universities, but is that all that determines it? Does it have to do with the acceptance rates, reputation, quality of professors? Any info would help 🙂


Thanks ahead of time! 👍

The way it was described to me when I was applying in 2006 was that the tiers were made up for convenience's sake and serve as a reference to a school's research productivity and their reputation of producing academics. E.g. UCLA would be considered a top tier school based on its strong focus on research, publication output of both students and faculty, and the quality of academics they produce.

I am not aware of any "tiers" that are clinically-focused.

 

[busybusybusy]

Thanks for the responses!

I feel like the only way I hear about the different "tiers" is through word of mouth.

I have an almost perfect (3.98) UGPA, but lack-luster research experience. I am considering taking time after undergrad to obtain more experience, but I prob will take a shot at applying for a psyD program.

My problem is: when choosing which schools to apply for, I can't tell which are reach/(more) obtainable schools. I don't want to be too naive, and end up applying to only programs that are out of my reach >_>

With PsyD programs, ones that are housed in true universitites are the way to go. I think to is much easier to find tiers as far as PsyD programs go because there are two main types, FSPSs and university-based.

As far clinical programs in general, I really don't feel that there are tiers (with the exceptions of FSPSs). As long as you go to a school that matches your research interests and work with a mentor who will assist you in getting the necessary training you should be golden. Trying to match to a school that is "ranked well" when you don't have any research interests in common with the professors there is just a waste of money and time.

 

[cara susanna]

Of course there are...with the Argosy/Alliant-type schools at the bottom and fully funded programs at the top.

Well, I meant amongst university-based programs.

Btw, ADDICTED2STATS: Thanks, your story is really inspiring to me because I want a research career and my program isn't really known for research.

 

[Ghostwriter574]

Trying to match to a school that is "ranked well" when you don't have any research interests in common with the professors there is just a waste of money and time.

This might be a little off topic but I keep reading people talking about this idea that there are not really top teir schools and they are all quality schools IF and only IF you are matched with a good professor and the school matches your needs. Can someone go into more detail on this for me? I am looking at different schools, and am starting to think that I am not doing something I should because so far I have only been looking at GPA/GRE requirements and whether or not it is research or practice focused (as siad in insiders guide). Should I be looking at specific professors? Should I be contacting these professors before I apply? How do I know if a specific professor is a match for me?

It seems like people on this forum place a lot of importance on this, and I am kind of lost. Thanks!

 

[isupsych253]

This might be a little off topic but I keep reading people talking about this idea that there are not really top teir schools and they are all quality schools IF and only IF you are matched with a good professor and the school matches your needs. Can someone go into more detail on this for me? I am looking at different schools, and am starting to think that I am not doing something I should because so far I have only been looking at GPA/GRE requirements and whether or not it is research or practice focused (as siad in insiders guide). Should I be looking at specific professors? Should I be contacting these professors before I apply? How do I know if a specific professor is a match for me?

It seems like people on this forum place a lot of importance on this, and I am kind of lost. Thanks!

I was wondering the same thing regarding the "contacting the professors" question. Is it a good idea to send them an email prior to applying?

 

[psychapps]

I was wondering the same thing regarding the "contacting the professors" question. Is it a good idea to send them an email prior to applying?

It's definitely a good idea, and crucial if you're applying to clinical Ph.D. programs, which tend to be mentor model. For clin Ph.D., you're applying to work with a specific professor/lab as much as you're applying to a program. In any given year, that prof may not be accepting students, so it's in your best interest to check with them in the early fall.

I've seen different opinions on whether to send a brief email introducing yourself and asking them if they'll be taking a student, or whether to try to engage them by asking questions about their research, attaching C.V.s, etc. I did the former and it seemed to work pretty well for me.

 

[Eivuwan]

Yes, e-mailing professors before applying should be a required step. All the people in my lab, including myself (that's 4 people) did this, and we all got into decent graduate schools.

It is important that you write something substantial though. Professors are very busy and would not pay attention to an e-mail that doesn't stand out. I'm going to copy and paste what I said to another person.

"2-3 lines about how their research is your interest isn't a very informative e-mail. While you don't want to write pages of stuff, it might be wise to read some recent articles from your POI. Then write 1-2 paragraphs in your e-mail about your thoughts/questions on the paper, and related it to the research that you are doing and your interests. Finally, make sure to attach a CV, and ask if they are taking students in the fall."

I was wondering the same thing regarding the "contacting the professors" question. Is it a good idea to send them an email prior to applying?

 

[Eivuwan]

This might be a little off topic but I keep reading people talking about this idea that there are not really top teir schools and they are all quality schools IF and only IF you are matched with a good professor and the school matches your needs. Can someone go into more detail on this for me? I am looking at different schools, and am starting to think that I am not doing something I should because so far I have only been looking at GPA/GRE requirements and whether or not it is research or practice focused (as siad in insiders guide). Should I be looking at specific professors? Should I be contacting these professors before I apply? How do I know if a specific professor is a match for me?

It seems like people on this forum place a lot of importance on this, and I am kind of lost. Thanks!

You need to look at a lot more factors then just the GPA/GRE requirements and whether or not it is research or practice orientated. You can find professors who are a good research interest match by looking at their profiles on the universities' websites and by reading some of their recent articles. It sounds like you need to spend more time thinking about what exactly is it that you want from this degree.

 

[roubs]

This might be a little off topic but I keep reading people talking about this idea that there are not really top teir schools and they are all quality schools IF and only IF you are matched with a good professor and the school matches your needs....

What is your end goal for a job?

 

[FadedC]

Yes, e-mailing professors before applying should be a required step. All the people in my lab, including myself (that's 4 people) did this, and we all got into decent graduate schools.

For the record thought there are schools (including highly competitive ones) which specifically instruct applicants not to e-mail individual professors. It's probably unusual but I've definitely seen schools like that in NYC, it may have to do with the high number of applicants they get. So it's probably good to review the program website for guidelines.

 

[Eivuwan]

For the record thought there are schools (including highly competitive ones) which specifically instruct applicants not to e-mail individual professors. It's probably unusual but I've definitely seen schools like that in NYC, it may have to do with the high number of applicants they get. So it's probably good to review the program website for guidelines.

Yeah, although most of them don't have that restriction. Those that tell you not to e-mail professors are probably clinically orientated schools where there is no mentorship model (CUNY).

 

[PsychAndMusic]

I was wondering the same thing regarding the "contacting the professors" question. Is it a good idea to send them an email prior to applying?

I emailed the professors I wanted to work with the September before applying. It was great actually, one professor let me know that he was not taking on students (saved myself an app fee). One professor (who shall remain nameless 😛) let me know that I stand no chance of being accepted into the school or program, saving myself yet another application fee. All of the other professors were extremely helpful and appreciative of my email, asked me if I had any questions etc, etc.

 

[TruePsych]

I emailed the professors I wanted to work with the September before applying. It was great actually, one professor let me know that he was not taking on students (saved myself an app fee). One professor (who shall remain nameless 😛) let me know that I stand no chance of being accepted into the school or program, saving myself yet another application fee. All of the other professors were extremely helpful and appreciative of my email, asked me if I had any questions etc, etc.

WOAH. What information had you provided to him/her to base this off of? I'm not wanting to know your stats, just did you send him a CV, or just describe some of your experiences/credentials? That sounds horribly rude and absurd!

 

[PsychAndMusic]

WOAH. What information had you provided to him/her to base this off of? I'm not wanting to know your stats, just did you send him a CV, or just describe some of your experiences/credentials? That sounds horribly rude and absurd!

I initially just emailed him to let him know I was interested in his research, asked if he was taking on students. He emailed me back with a lot of great information (more links to his research etc.) and then asked me specific credentials (gre scores, gpa, pubs etc.) so I emailed him with the info he wanted (very basic info about my experiences and all that). He then proceeded to tell me I stood no chance of getting into the program, and that he figured I wanted "a frank answer". I said thank you and went on my merry way!

 

[TruePsych]

I initially just emailed him to let him know I was interested in his research, asked if he was taking on students. He emailed me back with a lot of great information (more links to his research etc.) and then asked me specific credentials (gre scores, gpa, pubs etc.) so I emailed him with the info he wanted (very basic info about my experiences and all that). He then proceeded to tell me I stood no chance of getting into the program, and that he figured I wanted "a frank answer". I said thank you and went on my merry way!

While I can appreciate the frankness, I guess the "no chance" part seems a bit premature having only short email correspondence and informal info from you. Oh well, you obviously were not meant to go to that school. I hope you are very happy at your current program. 🙂

 

[PsychAndMusic]

While I can appreciate the frankness, I guess the "no chance" part seems a bit premature having only short email correspondence and informal info from you. Oh well, you obviously were not meant to go to that school. I hope you are very happy at your current program. 🙂

Exactly! I was happy to know he was a jerk beforehand so I didn't waste any time applying to work with him. I am very happy, I got into my top choice in the end! Thanks 🙂

 

[Ghostwriter574]

You need to look at a lot more factors then just the GPA/GRE requirements and whether or not it is research or practice orientated. You can find professors who are a good research interest match by looking at their profiles on the universities' websites and by reading some of their recent articles. It sounds like you need to spend more time thinking about what exactly is it that you want from this degree.

Ill be the first to say that yes, I obviously need to do more research and soul searching. But, I think I am taking a great first step by asking these questions and trying to get a better grasp on everything, and reading/researching as much as I can. I am still new and learning

What is your end goal for a job?

I feel that my skills, needs, and wants would be best suited by practicing clinical/counseling and teaching. Right now I am thinking of a university based PsyD (because I don't really care about research or tenured university teaching, I would be perfectly happy teaching at a community college/professional school with less pay). I am also looking into either balanced clinical or counseling PhD. However, my application is less than stellar. I am graduating this May, but have been late on everything. I am planning on taking 1-2 years off so I can at least make a decent application. My whole "story/application" I just posed on the WAMC thread a few days ago, if anyone could look and give me advice that would be great! I also think that is why I was asking my original question, because I feel my application is so poor right now I never thought about selecting which program/professors fits me best because honestly I have such doubts about it all I feel like I should take whatever program I can get, regardless of fit. If I can get into some sort of university based program, I will be happy.

I know some of you guys like to bash newbie's like me because it annoys you that some people think they can get into these programs without doing their own research or even honestly knowing why they want to get a doctorate. Just know I am trying my hardest to learn everything I can and I'll admit I don't know exactly what I want other than I know I find psychology very interesting, got A's in research and stats, and loved all my classes. I enjoy reading psych journal articles for fun, I am smart, and have fantastic communication and interpersonal skills. I am also (now) a very hard worker. I don’t even care about the pay really because I know I would enjoy going to work every day. Do you guys think this is enough reason for me to pursue this degree? I have been so discouraged reading posts here and the Insiders Guide that I have even begun looking into law school

Thanks for all input! Every response helps

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Ill be the first to say that yes, I obviously need to do more research and soul searching. But, I think I am taking a great first step by asking these questions and trying to get a better grasp on everything, and reading/researching as much as I can. I am still new and learning



I feel that my skills, needs, and wants would be best suited by practicing clinical/counseling and teaching. Right now I am thinking of a university based PsyD (because I don't really care about research or tenured university teaching, I would be perfectly happy teaching at a community college/professional school with less pay). I am also looking into either balanced clinical or counseling PhD. However, my application is less than stellar. I am graduating this May, but have been late on everything. I am planning on taking 1-2 years off so I can at least make a decent application. My whole "story/application" I just posed on the WAMC thread a few days ago, if anyone could look and give me advice that would be great! I also think that is why I was asking my original question, because I feel my application is so poor right now I never thought about selecting which program/professors fits me best because honestly I have such doubts about it all I feel like I should take whatever program I can get, regardless of fit. If I can get into some sort of university based program, I will be happy.

I know some of you guys like to bash newbie's like me because it annoys you that some people think they can get into these programs without doing their own research or even honestly knowing why they want to get a doctorate. Just know I am trying my hardest to learn everything I can and I'll admit I don't know exactly what I want other than I know I find psychology very interesting, got A's in research and stats, and loved all my classes. I enjoy reading psych journal articles for fun, I am smart, and have fantastic communication and interpersonal skills. I am also (now) a very hard worker. I don't even care about the pay really because I know I would enjoy going to work every day. Do you guys think this is enough reason for me to pursue this degree? I have been so discouraged reading posts here and the Insiders Guide that I have even begun looking into law school

Thanks for all input! Every response helps

Honestly, I'm of the opinion that if an individual doesn't care about/has no interest in research, they probably shouldn't be pursuing a doctorate, especially in psychology. Given the youth of our field, the ability to--at the least--critically evaluate (and, again in my opinion, conduct) research is essential. Even if you never publish, the digestion of research requires a good deal of experience with the research process itself.

If you're confident that all you really want to do are teach and practice, I might suggest pursuing a practice-oriented master's degree first (e.g., social work, counseling), trying your hand at that for a bit, and then deciding if you want to later return for a doctorate.

Don't let the posts here discourage. The posters are just wanting to make sure that you actually know what you're getting yourself into. The qualities you've listed are definitely important in grad school, but so is having a relatively firm understanding of the whole grad school process itself, as well as a general idea of the areas you might want to focus on (this can, and often does, change while in school).

 

[ehh2109]

.

 

[ehh2109]

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[roubs]

I feel that my skills, needs, and wants would be best suited by practicing clinical/counseling and teaching. Right now I am thinking of a university based PsyD (because I don't really care about research or tenured university teaching, I would be perfectly happy teaching at a community college/professional school with less pay). I am also looking into either balanced clinical or counseling PhD.

At least in my area I know that people teach at community colleges with a masters degree. If practice is your main focus then a masters/LCSW vs unfunded Psy.D. could save you $100k in loans (50 vs 150+) and also significant earning potential. 2 yrs as a FT student vs 5.

 

[Eivuwan]

Yes, I definitely agree with this. I think that's the one of the main reasons why I got into my current program. However, even having a professor interested in you is not enough. I had two professors who were very interested in me, but because of some reasons (I'm guessing it's because they have too many students already, or the department is prioritizing other professors), I was still ruled out by other people on the admissions committee. Ugh.

I think it is also important to tell them WHAT about their research interests you. I had two professors email me back saying that their research was moving in a very different direction than indicated by their website/recent publications, which was much better to find out before submitting an app/attending an interview!

I got into my top-choice school this year and attribute that largely to the contact I had with my POI ahead of time. I emailed her expressing interest and asking some genuine questions I had, and from the background information I included in my email she wrote that she was REALLY looking forward to reviewing my app and to let her know as soon as I submitted it so she could pull it out of the pile. I went into the interview feeling like I had a foot in the door already and with her clearly looking forward to talking. Obviously that's not the norm from an email of interest, but it happens and is worth the email just in case.

 

[Eivuwan]

No one is trying to bash you. We're just trying to figure out what exactly is it that you want for your career (otherwise it would be difficult to give you relevant advice). It's good that you're going to take some time off to better your application, but please don't think that you should just go to whatever university-based program you can get. It is 5-6 years of your life.

One thing I don't understand is why you want a doctorate so badly considering that you "really don't care about research." Have you done enough research yet to know that? What is it that you don't like about research? You did say that you enjoy reading journal articles in your other post...

I know some of you guys like to bash newbie's like me because it annoys you that some people think they can get into these programs without doing their own research or even honestly knowing why they want to get a doctorate.

 

[Ghostwriter574]

Honestly, I'm of the opinion that if an individual doesn't care about/has no interest in research, they probably shouldn't be pursuing a doctorate, especially in psychology…

…One thing I don't understand is why you want a doctorate so badly considering that you "really don't care about research." Have you done enough research yet to know that? What is it that you don't like about research? You did say that you enjoy reading journal articles in your other post...

I guess I phrased my wording wrong. I don't really know yet if research is what I want to do yet, because I haven't even done it yet. It's not that I have no interest in research, but more from my *very* limited experience of only talking with professors that I feel as a career choice research would not be for me. Research Methods and Lab was my favorite class, partially because of the awesome teacher, and I love reading psych journal articles. I think logically and critically, and think I would be good at helping to conduct research while I am in school, as well as fully understand research so I can use it in a practical situation. From what I understand, the PhD professor market is starting to become saturated, I personally feel that the career choice of private practice better suits me than a professor at a university. I know all doctorates do research, PsyD or PhD, but I thought that with the PsyD, its much more clinically focused, teaching its students how to become great clinicians but only teaching/doing research so they can fully understand others research to make it useful to themselves. This is why I thought it would be good for me because I enjoy research, but the career choice of becoming a university professor does not sound as appealing to me as private practice/possibly teaching CC. But the answer in the end is no, I am not sure if I wouldn’t want to do research as a career, maybe once I volunteer RA for a university this summer/fall I will realize that it is what I want to do, but right now I don’t see that happening, a private practice is what I would want to do.

At least in my area I know that people teach at community colleges with a masters degree. If practice is your main focus then a masters/LCSW vs unfunded Psy.D. could save you $100k in loans (50 vs 150+) and also significant earning potential. 2 yrs as a FT student vs 5.

…If you're confident that all you really want to do are teach and practice, I might suggest pursuing a practice-oriented master's degree first (e.g., social work, counseling), trying your hand at that for a bit, and then deciding if you want to later return for a doctorate.

Yes, this is a route I could take. But from what I know and have heard from those already in the field, those who do private practice with a masters are almost never trained well enough to be really effective. I do not mean to bash this degree at all, but I want to be the best clinician I can, and I think a doctorate level degree will better suit me for my career goals. I also like that there is more flexibility with the doctorate degree, with more money making potential. This is why I was thinking doctorate degree. Although I have no money and would take out loans, I do not care as much about how much debt I will be in as long as I know it will help me get the career I want to be in. I would worry if I got a masters and started practicing I would either lose interest in getting the doctorate after waiting so long or not be happy with my job knowing I am not as good as I could have been at it if I had gotten a doctorate. This is just my thoughts feel free to add your input as I could be totally off on this.

I also would like to say that why would ANYONE get a PsyD with what you are saying? I understand that I could save money in loans, get into the program easier, and save 3 years. But there are benefits to a PsyD over a masters by being able to make more money, more job flexibility, better trained, and I think for me I would rather chose a PsyD.

Again, this is all my own research and since I am still trying to learn as much as I can please let me know if I am wrong or if you have anything to add.

DON'T go to law school!!! Before you decide that's a better route than psych, go spend some time on the www.top-law-schools.com forums and you will change your mind, I promise.

May I ask why specifically you feel law school is bad? I actually have been spending lots of time on that forum among others, and one of my good friends is in law school here at my university, and my uncle is a lawyer. I know it is a super saturated market, with those who make "lots of money" being few and far between now days. It would cost the same as a PsyD, be easier to get into a decent law school than it would for me to get into a decent PsyD/PhD, and most likely pay more. The only thing I am really worried about is the super long work weeks, high stress, and the fact that I feel more laywers that are good have a certain personality (aggressive, ruthless, confident, self centered) which I am more a calm and observant person. I still think I would be good at being a lawyer (I am logical, hard working, great communicator), which in the end I feel whether its PsyD, Masters, PhD, JD, the most important think is if you are good at what you do and you work hard, you will be happy. As you guys can see, I am very lost in choosing a career, but trying my best.

Sorry for totally taking over this post, I should have made a new thread haha. All opinions and thoughts help a lot, thanks!

 

[AcronymAllergy]

To the best of my knowledge, there isn't yet any data supporting the idea that a doctoral-level practitioner provides "better" therapy (as measured by admittedly-limited outcome data) than master's-level practitioners. This is why we have suggested the master's degree as an option given your previously-stated interest in primarily providing therapy. And yes, doctoral-level practitioners do get paid more; however, you also have to factor in the opportunity cost of obtaining a Psy.D. if you attend a non-funded program ($100k+ extra in loans, 2-3 years of additional lost income).

In terms of Ph.D. vs. Psy.D., both are viable options. Do keep in mind that even the majority of Ph.D. graduates go on to focus primarily on clinical work, and (last I checked) the average Ph.D. internship applicant had more clinical hours than the average Psy.D. internship applicant (perhaps owing to less-than-stellar opportunities at free-standing professional schools of psychology, whose greater numbers of students are going to skew averages).

As for why one would choose a Psy.D. over a masters--I would say one would choose the former if he/she had a decided interest in being able to very critically review and apply research, gain additional theoretical understanding of psychopathology and treatment, gain experience in supervision and program administration/evaluation, and work with more independence in a wider variety of settings.

Finally, regarding law, I personally wouldn't get anywhere near it. As you've mentioned, they come out with similar levels of debt, generally work worse hours, and are now having to deal with the apparently-horrendous effects of the recent recession and subsequent reported collapse of the legal market. That, and thus far every law school grad I've meet seems to want to do something other than law (particularly psychology). Which is slightly ironic, considering I've met a handful of psych grad students who've considered leaving their programs to pursue a JD.

 

[ehh2109]

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[KayJay85]

There are 100+ decent PsyD/PhD programs to choose from. A 'decent' law school is top 14. Seriously. A GOOD law school is top 6. People are coming out of NYU Law and not getting jobs. Not just they can't find a job they like - they can't find ANY job. If you can get into Yale, Harvard, or Stanford Law, then go - you need a 175+ LSAT and 3.7+ GPA to even be considered unless you have something crazy going for you that you haven't disclosed here. If you can get into a top 14 law school with a full scholarship, go. Otherwise you will wrack up debt you cannot pay and you will end up taking a job that in no way requires a law degree. Even if you do manage to get a coveted position, you will work 80 hour weeks. You will miss important events (like family weddings/funerals) because you will not be able to get away. I'm not convinced that law school is actually that miserable (it's hyped up a lot), but practicing most types of law sure is. There are 45,000 law grads a year. 45,000!!! The market cannot and is not absorbing that many people. It just isn't. I have a hundred other reasons you shouldn't go to law school, but I'll spare everyone. Feel free to PM me if you want me to keep going. 🙂

^Not to put too fine a point on it.

Wow. Seriously, though, that puts our issues into perspective. Not that it diminishes my commitment to ensuring that psychologists do not follow suit. Just saying... 😉