Torsades de pointes

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MDSlacker

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I definitely thought I had this down but just got really confused on a couple things I read in FA. Might be because I'm getting close to my test and my brain might have just shut down. But can someone explain how tachycardia leads to torsades. I thought long QT lead to torsades, wouldn't tachycardia be a decreased QT. Along those same lines how would atropine, isoproterenol, and drugs w/ antimuscarinic properties predispose to torsades (they cause tachycardia) and then antiarrhytmics which slow heart rate also lead to torsades.

If this doesn't make sense just ask me to clarify.

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Long Qt prolongs the plateau (mostly think Phase 3) period and the chance for early afterdepolarizations, which increase risk. See link here. Image here.

Consequently, drugs that downregulate Potassium channels, such as class Ia, partly (but not significantly) class Ic, and class III (sans Amiodarone despite its theoretical potential - Uworld empirical question) can increase risk of torsades. Hypokalemia in general also increases risk.
 
Last edited:
Course Notes said:
Early afterdepolarizations (EADs)
EADs occur as a result of abnormal
prolongation of action potential
duration (APD) in some cardiac
myocytes, which results in a
secondary depolarization phase prior
to full repolarization. Certain cardiac
myocyte cell types are more prone to
the generation of EADs, such as
Purkinje fibers of the conduction
system and M cells of the midmyocardium.
When repolarization is
delayed long enough at plateau
voltages to allow recovery of a
fraction of inactivated L-type
calcium channels, these channels
can reopen to provide added inward
current, thereby initiating the EAD

An EAD can, in some circumstances, excite nearby myocardium to reach threshold to
stimulate or trigger an action potential and, if this triggered action potential is propagated
through the heart, it causes a premature ventricular beat. In the setting of the long QT
syndrome, there is exaggerated heterogeneity of total APD throughout the heart, and
therefore, premature triggered ventricular beats can lead to complex reentrant (see below)
circuits of excitation resulting in a specific form of polymorphic ventricular tachycardia. On
the surface electrocardiogram, a changing QRS axis pattern is observed, hence the name
torsades de pointes or “twisting of the points” (Figure 17). This arrhythmia produces
symptoms of palpitations and syncope, is often self-limited, but it can also degenerate into
ventricular fibrillation and result in sudden cardiac death.
APD prolongation typically occurs in the setting of acquired long QT syndrome or congenital
long QT syndrome.
• Acquired long QT syndrome can be due to drug effects, electrolyte abnormalities
(especially hypokalemia), or ischemia. The acquired long-QT syndrome can be a
potentially lethal side effect of some medications. In fact, drug-induced QT
prolongation is the most common cause of drugs being withdrawn from the U.S.
market or from development in the last 20 years. A combination of a QT-prolonging
drug with hypokalemia can be a particularly potent stimulus for arrhythmia.
• Congenital long QT syndrome is due to an inherited mutation in an ion channel
protein or associated protein that results in delayed repolarization. In the case of
channels important in repolarization, loss of function mutations are implicated in
channels such as KCNQ1 (responsible for IKs) and KCNH2 (responsible for IKr).
Alternatively, gain of function mutations in channels that depolarize myocytes have
been identified in channels such as SCN5A (responsible for INa) or CACNAC1
(responsible for ICa,L).

Above is from my course notes.
 
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Long Qt prolongs the plateau (mostly think Phase 3) period and the chance for early afterdepolarizations, which increase risk. See link here. Image here.

Consequently, drugs that downregulate Potassium channels, such as class Ia, partly (but not significantly) class Ic, and class III (sans Amiodarone despite its theoretical potential - Uworld empirical question) can increase risk of torsades. Hypokalemia in general also increases risk.

I guess I should have been more specific but I understand how Torsades can be caused by prolonged QT and from antiarrhythmics. The part I am confused about is how drugs that cause tachycardia (and therefore shorter the QT) also lead to torsades.

Some examples of drugs that cause tachycardia, lead to a shortened QT, and then cause torsades are isoproterenol, atropine, and drugs with antimuscarinic side effects, ie antihistamines, tricyclics, etc)

P. 235 of FA 2013 says that shortened QT leads to torsades and this is basically what I don't understand.
 
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I guess I should have been more specific but I understand how Torsades can be caused by prolonged QT and from antiarrhythmics. The part I am confused about is how drugs that cause tachycardia (and therefore shorter the QT) also lead to torsades.

Some examples of drugs that cause tachycardia, lead to a shortened QT, and then cause torsades are isoproterenol, atropine, and drugs with antimuscarinic side effects, ie antihistamines, tricyclics, etc)

P. 235 of FA 2013 says that shortened QT leads to torsades and this is basically what I don't understand.

It says it treats Torsades by decreasing QT. Applications is the header.
 
TdP's mechanism is very complicated because there are so many K channels in the heart and drugs can work on anyone of them and cause this syndrome. The way I understand it is: anything that prolongs the action potential results in TdP. This includes direct and indirect effects (i.e. hypotension-->reflex brady)
 
It says it treats Torsades by decreasing QT. Applications is the header.

WOW! I feel really stupid now lol but yea that makes much more sense. But I'm glad I was at least confident enough in my own knowledge to be confused by this rather than just accept what I misread in first aid. Thanks.
 
WOW! I feel really stupid now lol but yea that makes much more sense. But I'm glad I was at least confident enough in my own knowledge to be confused by this rather than just accept what I misread in first aid. Thanks.

Haha yeah, it's actually an excellent sign you know your stuff.
 
Long Qt prolongs the plateau (mostly think Phase 3) period and the chance for early afterdepolarizations, which increase risk. See link here. Image here.

Consequently, drugs that downregulate Potassium channels, such as class Ia, partly (but not significantly) class Ic, and class III (sans Amiodarone despite its theoretical potential - Uworld empirical question) can increase risk of torsades. Hypokalemia in general also increases risk.

sorry to bring this old thread up, but why does Hypokalemia cause an increased risk for torsades?
 
TdP's mechanism is very complicated because there are so many K channels in the heart and drugs can work on anyone of them and cause this syndrome. The way I understand it is: anything that prolongs the action potential results in TdP. This includes direct and indirect effects (i.e. hypotension-->reflex brady)
hypotension leads to reflex brady? NOO!!!!! its totally the opposite, if your blood pressure is going down, baroreceptors won't sense enough stretch on the vessel and will decrease their activity which means sympathetic takes over and will increase heart rate, force of contraction and conduction thru B1 receptors for norepi to compensate the low flow by increasing the CO; in the other hand, if you are stimulatimg apha1 receptors with increased sympathetic stimulation then you will get decreased HR by baroreceptor activity.....
so i also still have your same question?! why do a faster action potential or short QT causes V.Fib? does the increased electrical activity in the myocardium provokes extra focal ventricular depolarizations? (coming from the thought of learning that purkinje fibers have the ability for automaticity)
 
I definitely thought I had this down but just got really confused on a couple things I read in FA. Might be because I'm getting close to my test and my brain might have just shut down. But can someone explain how tachycardia leads to torsades. I thought long QT lead to torsades, wouldn't tachycardia be a decreased QT. Along those same lines how would atropine, isoproterenol, and drugs w/ antimuscarinic properties predispose to torsades (they cause tachycardia) and then antiarrhytmics which slow heart rate also lead to torsades.

If this doesn't make sense just ask me to clarify.
Look bradychardia by prolonging QT causes EADs and not tachycardia. Moreover isoproterenol is a drug that can improve torsades caused due to bradychardia, it will not cause torsades.
 
Look bradychardia by prolonging QT causes EADs and not tachycardia. Moreover isoproterenol is a drug that can improve torsades caused due to bradychardia, it will not cause torsades.

You treat TdP by shortening the QT and by reducing the time that there can be an R on T phenomena (EAD on the T wave)
- you can shorten the QT by repleting electrolytes (giving K or Mg). This is why hypokalemia or hypomagnesemia predipose to TdP- they lengthen QT
- You can give medicinces which will reduce EADs
- You can speed up the heart rate (usually done with Isoproterenol or pacing the heart faster) which reduces the time an early after depolarization will have to hit on the T wave.

Acutely if someone goes into TdP- give Mg and pace faster/isoproterenol
 
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