Tough Case...

[ramona223]

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Hi Everyone,
I need some pointers...
Here's my situation:
25 YO...Graduated from UCLA (History major)...did a postbacc...took the April MCAT.
The BIG problem: GPA...
Postbacc: 2.999
Science overall: 2.93
Cumulative: 3.51
Non-Science: 3.8
Not having seen my MCAT scores yet...I'm planning on taking the August MCAT and still applying this year...
(1) is it worth it to take a 12-3 pm everyday class this summer (while working) and studying for the August MCAT, to raise my science gpa to the 3.0 mark?
(2) Would you still submit AMCAS in June? Note: I have no clue what my April MCAT score is...could be low twenties based on practice tests...I know I need a 30+ to be alive...
What are my chances in Ireland, Caribb, and Israel?

 

[Learfan]

Hi Everyone,
I need some pointers...
Here's my situation:
25 YO...Graduated from UCLA (History major)...did a postbacc...took the April MCAT.
The BIG problem: GPA...
Postbacc: 2.999
Science overall: 2.93
Cumulative: 3.51
Non-Science: 3.8
Not having seen my MCAT scores yet...I'm planning on taking the August MCAT and still applying this year...
(1) is it worth it to take a 12-3 pm everyday class this summer (while working) and studying for the August MCAT, to raise my science gpa to the 3.0 mark?
(2) Would you still submit AMCAS in June? Note: I have no clue what my April MCAT score is...could be low twenties based on practice tests...I know I need a 30+ to be alive...
What are my chances in Ireland, Caribb, and Israel?

Sorry to be pessimistic but I think your best chances are in the Carribean.

Your science GPA is not competitive for US allopathic programs which have been seeing very good candidates in the last cycle. In addition, your package is not very strong when compared to the candidates admitted to the DO schools either. You might try to gain entry to some of the weaker DO schools if you offer some unique mix of ECs but I do not feel optimistic.

My personal belief is that the economy is still weak in many areas and that young people with good grades are once again attempting to crowd into medicine for the perceived long term job security. I would not waste time and money on any further classes that will only have a marginal effect on your science GPA.

I tried for the program in Israel and was turned down without even the courtesy of an interview with a 3.46/36S/dual science major. I am a much older non-trad so that may have influenced their decision. In my favor, I have traveled extensively in Europe, Latin America, the Middle East and Asia so going to a new country did not appear to be a challenge for me. Hard to say why I was turned down but I suspect that the Israeli program had their choice of candidates with great grades and MCAT scores as well during the last cycle.

I know very little about the Irish program so cannot comment.

I applied to all four of the larger Carribean programs and got into all of them with no problem. I can comment on any of them as well as the Carribean med school situation in general if you would like to PM me. It is very complex down there and you need to be prepared on many levels as well as being comfortable with taking on a lot of risk.

 

[Kazema]

I think your biggest problem is your post-bac GPA, honestly. I'd say that you need to improve that to a 3.4 or so, because you need to show both academic ability and the ability to maintain high standards of academic ability over a period of time. Right now it looks like you got a second chance to show you can handle the sciences and didn't take advantage of it.

As it stands, even if you crush the MCAT (35+) your post-bac GPA is going to hold you back. I don't know about Caribbean schools, but you're probably a year (or more) away from applying to US programs.

 

[2tall]

Hi Everyone,
I need some pointers...
Here's my situation:
25 YO...Graduated from UCLA (History major)...did a postbacc...took the April MCAT.
The BIG problem: GPA...
Postbacc: 2.999
Science overall: 2.93
Cumulative: 3.51
Non-Science: 3.8
Not having seen my MCAT scores yet...I'm planning on taking the August MCAT and still applying this year...
(1) is it worth it to take a 12-3 pm everyday class this summer (while working) and studying for the August MCAT, to raise my science gpa to the 3.0 mark?
(2) Would you still submit AMCAS in June? Note: I have no clue what my April MCAT score is...could be low twenties based on practice tests...I know I need a 30+ to be alive...
What are my chances in Ireland, Caribb, and Israel?

What makes you stand out? Any interesting research experiences? community experiences? Athlete? Artist?

Could you apply for disadvantaged status?

Who do you know?

Are you on any particular timetable?

Chances in Ireland? No idea. Chances in Caribb? Yes. Chances in Isreal? Again, no idea.

Do you have a mentor? It makes it much easier if you have someone who could guide you through the process.

How was your postbacc structured? Just prereqs? Any upper level sciences?

Keep The Faith

 

[ramona223]

What makes you stand out? Any interesting research experiences? community experiences? Athlete? Artist?

Could you apply for disadvantaged status?

Who do you know?

Are you on any particular timetable?

Chances in Ireland? No idea. Chances in Caribb? Yes. Chances in Isreal? Again, no idea.

Do you have a mentor? It makes it much easier if you have someone who could guide you through the process.

How was your postbacc structured? Just prereqs? Any upper level sciences?

Keep The Faith

Hi 2tall,
Thanks for the positive note...The other two replies, while realistic, got me down a bit...In particular, Kazema's observation that I got a second chance at it with the post-bac and "didn't take advantage"...Unfortunately, there are admissions that would think the same, and not give a damn about the overall picture, so point taken.

Mind you, I've been working full-time and took very few science classes as an undergrad. The other poster, who didn't get an interview at the Israeli schools with a 36 MCAT and a 3.4 (science or overall?), well, that just seems discouraging--I didn't imagine they were THAT competitive...Could be an unusual case.

I know my 2.9 SCIENCE GPA stinks, but I think the 3.5 overall AMCAS GPA from a competitive UC will help at least a little bit (3.66 overall, non-AMCAS), and I still don't have my MCAT scores...I've got good volunteering/research experiences, have been teaching 4 languages for the last few years, and frankly, working full-time, taking post-bacc classes, and studying for the MCAT was the most difficult experience of my life...So now I'm going to take a summer class to raise my science GPA to a 3.0 in six weeks and retake the MCAT in August (even though I don't know my April scores yet)...Don't think I'll apply to US schools.......As it is quite apparent that I will be wasting my time and money....Most people, however, seem to think, applying earlier with a 2.9 science/3.5 overall is better than waiting for the 3.0 science in six weeks, if I DO submit AMCAS...Between a horrid science GPA and applying later, I don't if it even matter...But I figure, if I take the August MCAT, they won't look until later anyway (IF they were to look)...So for now, itt would be great to see more stats on Israel, island schools,and Ireland around here...

 

[beanbean]

Unfortunately a low science gpa with a decent cummulative gpa leads an admission's committee to wonder "can this person handle the basic scince curriculum?" The first two years of med school encompass a tremendous volume of information and most of it is science based. It sounds like you have had a tough schedule! Make sure you really know your stuff before taking the MCAT. Your MCAT score will be key. Take as many practice tests as you can. A solid MCAT will help ease your science gpa abit. Don't rush the application process. If taking another year and focusing completely on taking some science classes and getting a 4.0 is possible, do it! Best of luck to you.

 

[Kazema]

So now I'm going to take a summer class to raise my science GPA to a 3.0 in six weeks and retake the MCAT in August (even though I don't know my April scores yet)...Don't think I'll apply to US schools.......As it is quite apparent that I will be wasting my time and money....

While I don't think you're in a good position to get in right now I think that the experiences you've had so far would make you a strong (and very interesting) applicant if you are able to continue on doing your post-bac for a year or so to raise your GPA.

Do you have to apply this year? I think you'll be much, much better off waiting one more year if you can.

 

[MrTee]

You've got to get that postbacc/science gpa up. Some schools focus only on that gpa--it's not like you take history classes in med school, so they want to see you can hang with a good science courseload. As it stands, you're facing an uphill battle for US allopathic med schools with a sub 3.0 science gpa, even if you do get a high 30's mcat. It would be a different story if there were a strong upward trend in GPA which would indicate you're ready for med school now. I would take kazema's advice, because he has dealt with the low gpa issue and overcome it.

 

[ramona223]

You've got to get that postbacc/science gpa up. Some schools focus only on that gpa--it's not like you take history classes in med school, so they want to see you can hang with a good science courseload. As it stands, you're facing an uphill battle for US allopathic med schools with a sub 3.0 science gpa, even if you do get a high 30's mcat. It would be a different story if there were a strong upward trend in GPA which would indicate you're ready for med school now. I would take kazema's advice, because he has dealt with the low gpa issue and overcome it.

Thanks Mr. Tee, 2Tall, Kazema, etc for your helpful comments...I know reading replies can sometimes knock my morale, but in end the end, it's a great motivator as well...I remember having a discussion some years ago with a friend's father who happened to be an anesthesiologist...The topic of the discussion was whether island doctors deserve their reputation, jokes and all included...He happened to bring up a very good point-that being-in his opinion, island docs are in a way even better quality docs...Why? Because they are often times people that have struggled to try and get into med school...Quite simply, people that really really want to be doctors...Stigma and all...It's just something I think about every now and then (doesn't mean I'm heading out there just yet, but heck, I definitely don't agree with the "stay-in-the-US-no-matter-what school"...)...Being an foreign grad sucks, I know, but that depends on what you want out of things...

My point is, you guys talk about sticking it out, taking more classes, raising your GPA...But what it boils down to, is, I don't want to start med school at age 30 (not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just MY thing), postbacc courses are expensive, I'm tired of working to pay rent, I don't want to go into derm...So...At this point, a reputable medical education sounds about good enough...In the end, being a good doctors is practice practice practice (i.e. how many patients have you seen?)...The other thing I sometimes ask myself is, and sorry to put a damper on the "human side of things," but why the hell do med schools care if I can handle the course load based on my GPA or not? Why don't they charge $2000/year and worry about my capabilities? Or for that matter, given what they charge to review your application, why can't they put some time and effort into verifying your experiences/volunteer work, etc??? That being, if they were to care...

Quite frankly, I think few admissions people really do care about that...Med schools are just another business, and if they care about your GPA or MCAT, that concern, to a large degree, is only aimed at maintaining the reputation of their business (i.e. tougher to get into="better school to apply to"...i.e...Why we joke about island schools)- without giving a damn about your individual situation or motivations (yea, I'll read your PS and experiences after I see the numbers)...That's what I find to be somewhat saddening...Anyway, I'll go whine to my mother about it, since she's the one that keeps asking about my MCAT scores everyday...Thanks for your support guys, and best of luck.

 

[plrae12]

Thanks Mr. Tee, 2Tall, Kazema, etc for your helpful comments...I know reading replies can sometimes knock my morale, but in end the end, it's a great motivator as well...I remember having a discussion some years ago with a friend's father who happened to be an anesthesiologist...The topic of the discussion was whether island doctors deserve their reputation, jokes and all included...He happened to bring up a very good point-that being-in his opinion, island docs are in a way even better quality docs...Why? Because they are often times people that have struggled to try and get into med school...Quite simply, people that really really want to be doctors...Stigma and all...It's just something I think about every now and then (doesn't mean I'm heading out there just yet, but heck, I definitely don't agree with the "stay-in-the-US-no-matter-what school"...)...Being an foreign grad sucks, I know, but that depends on what you want out of things...

My point is, you guys talk about sticking it out, taking more classes, raising your GPA...But what it boils down to, is, I don't want to start med school at age 30 (not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just MY thing), postbacc courses are expensive, I'm tired of working to pay rent, I don't want to go into derm...So...At this point, a reputable medical education sounds about good enough...In the end, being a good doctors is practice practice practice (i.e. how many patients have you seen?)...The other thing I sometimes ask myself is, and sorry to put a damper on the "human side of things," but why the hell do med schools care if I can handle the course load based on my GPA or not? Why don't they charge $2000/year and worry about my capabilities? Or for that matter, given what they charge to review your application, why can't they put some time and effort into verifying your experiences/volunteer work, etc??? That being, if they were to care...

Quite frankly, I think few admissions people really do care about that...Med schools are just another business, and if they care about your GPA or MCAT, that concern, to a large degree, is only aimed at maintaining the reputation of their business (i.e. tougher to get into="better school to apply to"...i.e...Why we joke about island schools)- without giving a damn about your individual situation or motivations (yea, I'll read your PS and experiences after I see the numbers)...That's what I find to be somewhat saddening...Anyway, I'll go whine to my mother about it, since she's the one that keeps asking about my MCAT scores everyday...Thanks for your support guys, and best of luck.

Amen to that ramona223....persistence is key. It is very difficult to work full-time trying to make ends meet while going to school. Just don't give up on your dream, you'll eventually get it if you want it that bad.