Tough situation, need input!

[sokeen]

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Hey guys,

I'm in a really tough situation and I don't think time is really on my side. During my undergraduate years, I have always planned on doing pharmacy. But it wasn't until the end of last summer (after two years from graduating) when I became inspired and I found dentistry might be an possible option for me to try.

After sitting around thinking during the last week or so, I realized my passion and drive is in dentistry. The tough situation is that I've already gotten accepted to a few pharmacy schools and for one of the schools I plan on attending, I actually start in August. One of the issues is, should I continue pharmacy school while I apply to dental? I'm worried about the possibility of not getting into any dental programs this upcoming year.

Since it's my first time applying for dental school, knowing how competitive it is, it's going to be really hard cause my GPA isn't great. I don't think i will have time this summer to even retake any classes.

I feel it might be easier to assess if I list out my stats and ECs. Through these stats, is there a slight chance its possible to get an interview/acceptance with at least 20+ on DATs?

• BS biological sciences
• 3.1 overall
• three years of clinical research w/ a publication
• volunteered at dental office for 110~ hours
• volunteered for a non-profit dental org
• alot of leadership dealing with youth camps and college-bound programs

As for the DATs, I've already looked up on some Kaplan's DAT courses, which start next weekend. If anything, I was planning to enroll in the course and take the DATs right after. There was this one course that started from 5/8 till 6/26. Then, hoping if I score well, I would go about applying after. Is that a good plan?

You guys will probably think my situation is kind of strange, so I'm planning to take these next couple days and read your feedbacks. I hope I'm able to get some sort of idea what the game plan will be... feel free to ask my any questions if something is unclear and ill try to provide more info so you guys could further assist me! thanks

 

[mr24]

With a 3.1 i would want to have at least a 21 DAT but probably a 22 or 23 would be better (obviously haha, hope you know what i mean) do you know your science GPA?

 

[KillaCam]

Here are some of my points that you should strongly consider/realize:

1.) When you fill out AADSAS, the dental school application, you have to put whether or not you have applied to any other health profession and if so, when......This will not be looked on favoraably by MOST if not all dental schools considering you have just switched over from pharmacy to dentistry. You should NOT apply this next cycle coming up (not sure if this is what you were already thinking...).

2.) Your GPA is pretty low for those who tend to get in these days. I think that you should plan on working on this ASAP so that you can bring your total and science GPA up through a post-bacc or Masters program. It will only take one year so this may work well if your plan is to take my advice from point 1 and wait a year.

3.) You have not yet taken the DAT and until you get your scores it is truly hard to assess where you stand in this very improtant part of your app. You should take it when you are ready, whether that be now or in 12 months.

4.) Your ECs and your research experience look good so far so I think you are in good standing here.

If you are seriously considering this change, which it seems you are, you need to really really be sure that you want dentistry this bad. It might also take a couple years to get in and this is common these days with so many competative applicants so take it in consideration.

 

[bing12]

I would suggest to take the DAT before you start Pharm, if you do well enough, then you have a valid shot at Dschool. that is, if you are able to get mostly 20s on many of the sections or above. Once you take it, you can decide what route you want to take.

 

[John Durian]

Gotta disagree with issue #1 that my fellow Bruin KillaCam brought up. I would not tell them I applied/accepted into a Pharm program. I'm pretty sure there's no way they can find out (but I'm not 100% on that). On the other hand, you will be asked "why did spend all that time in Pharmacy" and the quick answer is "because I wanted to explore different career choices before settling... which is dentistry" (more eloquently of course; fill in more details according to your experience/life).

As for your GPA, it's definitely on the low side. Hard but not impossible to get in (seems the cut-off is sub-3.0). But admissions are competitive these days. You will likely need a 21+ with a 3.1'ish GPA. Something else we'd like to know is your science GPA. Is it high/low? Depending on what it is, you might need to score higher on the science sections of the DAT.

I'd also advise against the Kaplan course. Seems like a waste of money. Just buy the Kaplan book, buy destroyer, use Crack DAT, Achiever, old textbooks, etc. Study non-stop for 1 month and take it. If you bomb it, then don't apply this cycle. If you get AA/TS/PAT of about 21/21/20 then I would give it a shot.

Honestly, it sounds like you're leaning towards dentistry, but not completely sure yet since you are still debating whether or not to attend pharm school should you apply and not get in. I would sleep on it. I mean, you likely spent thousands applying and getting in to those pharmD programs... are you willing to shell out thousands more for a non-guaranteed shot of getting into dental school next year?

 

[KillaCam]

John Durian, you could be right in that perhaps he should not tell them. It will certainly raise some questions if he does but if they ever do find out it could be disaster......but still not sure how they would find out considering the ADA and all other health professional schools do NOT share info with eachother.

 

[4thMolar]

If you do plan on switching from Pharm to Dent, it's not going to be a good idea to attend pharmacy school next year. 1) It's not going to be a financially sound decision, accruing debt from pharm school for that year, and 2) if dental schools find out you are attending pharmacy school, what will make them believe you'll stay in dental school for all four years?

Being set on entering dental school, you're going to have to take a few risks for this to occur. You'll have to give up guaranteed acceptance to pharm school, and with your lower than avearge GPA, dental school will never be guaranteed. It's hard to give advice when you don't have your DAT scores available yet, but if I were you, and dentistry is really what you want to pursue, contact a few dental schools and see what they have to say.

Also, I wouldn't take the kaplan course either. Just buy the kaplan book and other supplemental material and review/study the material on your own. The DAT Discussions forum has a lot of advice.

 

[spearmint]

Tough situation. Pharmacy is a great field if you like it. My cousin is a pharmacist and initially she didn't like it. She was working in retail pharmacy. However when she made the switch to clinical pharmacy she began enjoying her work more. The pay is very nice too. Every field has its pros and cons. Most pre-health students usually focus on the pros (the honeymoon phase) and do not realize the cons until they're deep into their field of study. Before you make the jump, research the cons of both fields. Be aware that dentistry is a very expensive investment. Factoring dental school and practice debt, you could be looking at $800,000+ of debt. If you believe that you can live with the negative aspects of dentistry and still enjoy it as a profession for the next 30+ years, then go ahead make plans to move ahead in your new direction.

If you are absolutely, without a doubt sure that you would rather become a dentist than a pharmacist, then start studying for the DAT now. If you score 21+ in most sections then you might take a stab at applying this cycle. Start writing your personal statement and make a convincing statement on why you're making the switch and how it's a better fit for you. I would not lie about not having applied to other health professions in the AADSAS application. Yes, they may question you why (which is why your personal statement is so important) but it would be more detrimental if they found out you flat out lied to them. They take dishonesty very seriously...it might lead to an automatic disqualification. Tread wisely. Since the application cycle opens up in June, you would be really rushing yourself to get everything in. The better bet is doing a 1 year post-bac and giving yourself adequate time. It's up to how much money you're willing to sacrifice to get even the slightest chance of getting in a year earlier. Best of luck to you. Hope it works out for you.

 

[7 Iron]

You will need to disclose on your application that you applied to pharm schools. There is a question on the AADSAS application that asks this point blank. Don't lie. (I had to answer yes to this question--I had applied to med schools, and then I saw the light!) It did come up in a few of my interviews but as long as you can explain why you had a change of heart, it won't be a problem. It wasn't for me.

Have you shadowed a dentist? I know you volunteered in a dental office but that might be different than shadowing. Make sure you could see yourself as a general dentist for 30 years.

If you want to switch to dentistry, then do not matriculate to pharm school. You should give your spot to another student who would gladly finish the pharm curriculum. Plus, it would be hard to explain to the ad-coms that you are dropping out of the pharm program for a dental program. That would not reflect on you professionally.

I think both are great professions. And actually many people go through career changes and they change their plans, just like you are, so it's actually not as bad of a situation as you might think!

 

[luvstosmile]

Hey guys,

I'm in a really tough situation and I don't think time is really on my side. During my undergraduate years, I have always planned on doing pharmacy. But it wasn't until the end of last summer (after two years from graduating) when I became inspired and I found dentistry might be an possible option for me to try.

After sitting around thinking during the last week or so, I realized my passion and drive is in dentistry. The tough situation is that I've already gotten accepted to a few pharmacy schools and for one of the schools I plan on attending, I actually start in August. One of the issues is, should I continue pharmacy school while I apply to dental? I'm worried about the possibility of not getting into any dental programs this upcoming year.

Since it's my first time applying for dental school, knowing how competitive it is, it's going to be really hard cause my GPA isn't great. I don't think i will have time this summer to even retake any classes.

I feel it might be easier to assess if I list out my stats and ECs. Through these stats, is there a slight chance its possible to get an interview/acceptance with at least 20+ on DATs?

• BS biological sciences
• 3.1 overall
• three years of clinical research w/ a publication
• volunteered at dental office for 110~ hours
• volunteered for a non-profit dental org
• alot of leadership dealing with youth camps and college-bound programs

As for the DATs, I've already looked up on some Kaplan's DAT courses, which start next weekend. If anything, I was planning to enroll in the course and take the DATs right after. There was this one course that started from 5/8 till 6/26. Then, hoping if I score well, I would go about applying after. Is that a good plan?

You guys will probably think my situation is kind of strange, so I'm planning to take these next couple days and read your feedbacks. I hope I'm able to get some sort of idea what the game plan will be... feel free to ask my any questions if something is unclear and ill try to provide more info so you guys could further assist me! thanks

Just curious...what made you change your mind?

 

[sokeen]

Just curious...what made you change your mind?

Well during my undergraduate years, I was kind of unsure what field I wanted to pursue. I had a few aunts and uncles at the time that are pharmacists, and one of them gave me a job working at a pharmacy. I grew to like it, and pretty much had my focus on pharmacy throughout my four years at school. However, it wasn't until the beginning of last summer when I realized I should of ventured out more and see what could be better for me thats out there. At this point, I've already sent in my pharmacy applications. So... for a good 5-6 months of shadowing/volunteering with several dentists and be involved in some non-profit dental organizations, it made me realized its much more fun than pharmacy. I liked the idea that it was very hands on and I could actually make a bigger impact on someone's life. Also, I enjoy how much opportunities there are in dentistry when it comes to the business aspect. In the end, it was more of a feeling and I saw my personality fit in more with dentistry.

Anyways! Thanks for the great responses guys! It gave me a better sense and guidance to what I should do. I'm finishing up some post-baccalaureate applications for UCSF and Tuft. Do you guys happen to know any other good post-baccalaureate programs? As for the one's I'm filling out now, do you guys have any opinions about them? Thanks!

 

[dentalWorks]

Well during my undergraduate years, I was kind of unsure what field I wanted to pursue. I had a few aunts and uncles at the time that are pharmacists, and one of them gave me a job working at a pharmacy. I grew to like it, and pretty much had my focus on pharmacy throughout my four years at school. However, it wasn't until the beginning of last summer when I realized I should of ventured out more and see what could be better for me thats out there. At this point, I've already sent in my pharmacy applications. So... for a good 5-6 months of shadowing/volunteering with several dentists and be involved in some non-profit dental organizations, it made me realized its much more fun than pharmacy. I liked the idea that it was very hands on and I could actually make a bigger impact on someone's life. Also, I enjoy how much opportunities there are in dentistry when it comes to the business aspect. In the end, it was more of a feeling and I saw my personality fit in more with dentistry.

Anyways! Thanks for the great responses guys! It gave me a better sense and guidance to what I should do. I'm finishing up some post-baccalaureate applications for UCSF and Tuft. Do you guys happen to know any other good post-baccalaureate programs? As for the one's I'm filling out now, do you guys have any opinions about them? Thanks!

based on this post... you shouldn't attend pharmacy school... IMO, I think pharmacy is the toughest of all healthcare schools, and if your heart is not into it 100%, there is a strong chance your gonna drop out and just go on to pursue dentistry afterwards...... Ofc, this doesn't look good, dental adcoms don't like to see people quit from professional schools, so your actually hurting yourself in both aspects (pharmacy tuition + dental admission)

Save yourself the headache, and just pursue dentistry.

Your 3.1 GPA is a good place to start on post-bacc, in 1-2 years, you can bring it up to a respectable 3.2-3.3. Whats your Science GPA? This topped off with a 20+ on DAT and you have a good shot at dental school

 

[AwesomeTeeth]

based on this post... you shouldn't attend pharmacy school... IMO, I think pharmacy is the toughest of all healthcare schools, and if your heart is not into it 100%, there is a strong chance your gonna drop out and just go on to pursue dentistry afterwards

Really? I wouldn't say pharmacy is the toughest of all healthcare schools. I know some people in pharm school who aren't exactly the brightest/smartest people but they're doing fine. I don't think you're just going to quit school if your heart isn't 100% into it. Most people just suck it up and finish so they can have a job. I'm sure at some point, everyone in medical school or dental school feels like quitting and thinking its not worth it.

 

[dentalWorks]

Really? I wouldn't say pharmacy is the toughest of all healthcare schools. I know some people in pharm school who aren't exactly the brightest/smartest people but they're doing fine. I don't think you're just going to quit school if your heart isn't 100% into it. Most people just suck it up and finish so they can have a job. I'm sure at some point, everyone in medical school or dental school feels like quitting and thinking its not worth it.

this is true for most of us especially since we choose that particular career. The OP has exposed himself to another field and is convinced that it makes him happier. Now everytime he encounters a tough situation in pharmacy school, hes gonna regret not pursuing something he really wanted.... eventually, things will build up to a point of no-return, odds are he'll quit before he gets a degree.....

Obviously there is alot of speculation here, but chances for someone to quit a professional program are higher when you intentionally went into it knowing full-well there is another career out there that makes you happier.

As far as pharmacy being the "toughest" of all schools.... I made this guess because I believe pharmacy is very didactic-based. I think didactics are harder than clinical training (which is what you receive in 3rd and 4th year of dental/medical school).

 

[John Durian]

I'm finishing up some post-baccalaureate applications for UCSF and Tuft. Do you guys happen to know any other good post-baccalaureate programs? As for the one's I'm filling out now, do you guys have any opinions about them? Thanks!

The postbac in SF is really held at USF, not UCSF. It's better because as a CSU, the tuition will likely be cheaper (UCSF is a professionals-only school). I hear it's a good program, but is more directed for med applicants than dental. Just do well and it should boost your chances greatly.

As far as pharmacy being the "toughest" of all schools.... I made this guess because I believe pharmacy is very didactic-based. I think didactics are harder than clinical training (which is what you receive in 3rd and 4th year of dental/medical school).

Idk man. I always thought med and dent schools were the hardest since meds gotta learn about the whole body and dents gotta hone their hand skills. Opto and pharm is just one area: eyes and drugs.

And pharmDs typically have a half/half (didactic/clinicals) their third year and do rotations their fourth year (all clinical). Not 100% on that though.

 

[sokeen]

based on this post... you shouldn't attend pharmacy school... IMO, I think pharmacy is the toughest of all healthcare schools, and if your heart is not into it 100%, there is a strong chance your gonna drop out and just go on to pursue dentistry afterwards...... Ofc, this doesn't look good, dental adcoms don't like to see people quit from professional schools, so your actually hurting yourself in both aspects (pharmacy tuition + dental admission)

Save yourself the headache, and just pursue dentistry.

Your 3.1 GPA is a good place to start on post-bacc, in 1-2 years, you can bring it up to a respectable 3.2-3.3. Whats your Science GPA? This topped off with a 20+ on DAT and you have a good shot at dental school

My Science GPA is around 3.1 also.

Oh man! I wish I knew UCF had a post-bacc. I realized thedeadline was on the 1st of April, I'm a ilttle late. =[